What Makes Ex-Christians Think They Once Were Christians?

[Stumpmaster]

Just remember that What saved you, keeps you saved.
IF = you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious.

So......Who is that.... that is SALVATION.

A.) The finished work of Jesus on the Cross. (He said it's finished).(From the Cross).
If that is applied to you by God, then, what He has done for you, The Blood Atonement.. will last for as long as God lives.

Philippians 1:6

So what makes ex-Christians think they once were Christians?

We have had some good answers and insights but just looping over and over how people become Christians doesn't answer this question and evades the issue of Christians who die on the vine.

I know, it's difficult for those indoctrinated in OSAS to grasp, but salvation can be forfeited.

Those who say it is impossible for someone who is "in Christ" to fall away are proved wrong by Scripture.

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Rom 11:19-22 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." (20) Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. (21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. (22) Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[Keturah]

So what makes ex-Christians think they once were Christians?

We have had some good answers and insights but just looping over and over how people become Christians doesn't answer this question and evades the issue of Christians who die on the vine.

I know, it's difficult for those indoctrinated in OSAS to grasp, but salvation can be forfeited.

Those who say it is impossible for someone who is "in Christ" to fall away are proved wrong by Scripture.

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Rom 11:19-22 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." (20) Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. (21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. (22) Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Some folks  theology keeps Jesus on the cross !

I'm thankful he is no longer there & dead, but by his burial & resurrection, we can also hope for our resurrection. His glorification & ascension is our hope of eternal life!!!!!

 

[ButterflyJones]

I've come across a few former professing Christians who have either lost their faith or renounced it.

Real scenario. It happens.

Heb 6:4-6 For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5) and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, (6) and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.

I don't know about today however, at one time there was a discussion forum for former Christians. I don't want to name them.

I once lurked about for a few days to see what they discussed.
Just like atheist forums the main topic is their former faith. And just like atheist forums, they're hostile.

As to the OP question, I don't believe there can be any such label as, ex-Christian.

However, there certainly can be and are former nominal Christians.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Father calls them.
To the natural mind the things of God are foolishness. It makes sense then the Holy Spirit is the only one that can abate that condition.

And therein is what leads a natural minded person to Jesus. Because of God's eternal irrevocable gift of grace and faith they are saved.

Which is why I don't think there can be any such thing as an indwelt formerly blessed grace filled Christian.

Because God tells us his free gift is irrevocable.

And there is no such thing as an ex-irrevocable Gift from God.

That I word is key.

 

[Stumpmaster]

And there is no such thing as an ex-irrevocable Gift from God.

Only spurious converts, wayside hearers, stony ground hearers, and weed-choked hearers.

Ok, what does being "in Christ" mean if some who are "in Christ" die on the Vine?

Joh 15:1-2 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. (2) He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful.

In this metaphorical scene God the Father cuts off those "in Christ" who bear no fruit.

Bearing fruit in Christ then is essential to salvation.

 

[ButterflyJones]

I do not believe that God has the power to save you, but then has not the power to keep you

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free ..... John 8:31-32

Excellent post.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Only spurious converts, wayside hearers, stony ground hearers, and weed-choked hearers.

Ok, what does being "in Christ" mean if some who are "in Christ" die on the Vine?

Joh 15:1-2 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. (2) He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful.

In this metaphorical scene God the Father cuts off those "in Christ" who bear no fruit.

Bearing fruit in Christ then is essential to salvation.

Those pruned ones would be the nominal ones.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Those pruned ones would be the nominal ones.

That modifies the term "in Christ" to what?

 

[ButterflyJones]

That modifies the term "in Christ" to what?

It isn't modified in the least.

 

[Rockerduck]

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Rom 11:19-22 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." (20) Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. (21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. (22) Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Jesus was talking about and talking to the Jews of Israel in John 15:2. Remember, this is before Pentecost. Jesus never spoke of the Church age or the body of Christ.

Try reading Romans 11 this way

Romans 11:19-22 - You will say then, “Branches(Israel) were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they (Israel) were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either(because of unbelief). 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity;(because of unbelief) but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off ( because of unbelief).

 

[Cassandra]

I thought in here that some folk were implying that those of the Old Testament did not have the Holy Ghost.

Here are some that did receive the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit frequently came upon the prophets in the Old Testament, enabling them to deliver messages from God. For example, in the book of Isaiah, the prophet Isaiah says, "The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor" (Isaiah 61:1).
Bezalel: In the book of Exodus, when God commanded the Israelites to construct the tabernacle, He filled Bezalel, a skilled craftsman, with the Spirit of God to equip him for the task. Exodus 31:2-3 states, "See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge, and with all kinds of skills."
Saul: Before King Saul's reign, the Spirit of the Lord came upon him and transformed him into a different person. 1 Samuel 10:6 describes the event: "The Spirit of the LORD will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person."
David: In the Psalms, King David acknowledges the presence of the Holy Spirit, praying that God would not take the Holy Spirit away from him. Psalm 51:11 says, "Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me."

Notice Saul was given the Holy Spirit, and look what happened to him.

If one argues that this was before Christ, well, Christ was slain from before the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) They are under His blood as well.

 

[Behold]

Many scholars categorise the term "born again" as a metaphor

Jesus said... " You must be born again".

If not, you wont go to heaven.

Any "scholar" who does not agree, is not of God.
Believe it.

 

[Behold]

So what makes ex-Christians think they once were Christians?

There is no such thing as an "Ex-Christian"

There is only :

Born again, or unbeliever, never born again.

 

[Rockerduck]

Notice Saul was given the Holy Spirit, and look what happened to him.

If one argues that this was before Christ, well, Christ was slain from before the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) They are under His blood as well.

In the OT God gave the Holy Spirit to those of special service to God. Then came Saul, and a promise to give him the House of Israel forever, If he would obey. But he failed. Therefore God removed the Holy Spirit. You see conditions were set for Israel too, and they failed.

Then God chose David. Saul was natural, David is spiritual. Cain was natural, Abel was spiritual, and Esau was natural, Jacob was spiritual.
First you were natural, then (after Christs salvation) you are spiritual

Understand the deeper meaning here.

The meaning of Rev.13: 8,, God foreordained, from the foundation of the world, that Jesus would be the perfect Sacrifice for the sins of humanity.

 

[dadman]

I'm quoting this scripture wrong on purpose in order to make a point

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose .... [ and out of those ] whom he did foreknow, [ some of those ] he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren .... Moreover [ out of those ] whom he did predestinate, [ some of those ] he also called: and [ out of those ] whom he called, [ some of those ] he also justified: and [ out of those ] whom he justified, [ some of them ] he also glorified ........

sometimes understanding the scripture is not seeing what it says, but also what it does NOT say

now, to quote it correctly

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose .... For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren .... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also GLORIFIED ............ < this is the ultimate eternal end for the Believer in Jesus Christ .. GLORIFIED

I see absolutely NO ONE lost in the cracks

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? ............. absolutely no one


....

 

[ButterflyJones]

So what makes ex-Christians think they once were Christians?

We have had some good answers and insights but just looping over and over how people become Christians doesn't answer this question and evades the issue of Christians who die on the vine.

I know, it's difficult for those indoctrinated in OSAS to grasp, but salvation can be forfeited.

Those who say it is impossible for someone who is "in Christ" to fall away are proved wrong by Scripture.

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Rom 11:19-22 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." (20) Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. (21) For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. (22) Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

I think those indoctrinated to hold contempt for what they label ISAS, would be better served to learn that it is God who tells us once we are saved we are eternally saved.

Because we are not saved by our behaviors or consent to be and remain so. We are saved by the irrevocable grace of God.

I know that will not reach those dedicated to works salvation. It's not expected to. Rather, it is to assure new Christians that they are not to worry.
Salvation is eternal life.
There is no scriptural caveat that states, subject to cancelation at any time by either party,us or God.

How do grapes stay healthy on the vein? They're nourished from the root forward.

The vibe metaphor tells us,reiterates to us,that we who are in Christ and with Christ in us thrive. Those who say they are Christian yet are not indwelt, wither. They are not nourished from the source.

 

[Behold]

Because we are not saved by our behaviors or consent to be and remain so. We are saved by the irrevocable grace of God.

Yes.
What saved us, keeps us saved.

Jesus : is Salvation.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Yes.
What saved us, keeps us saved.

Jesus : is Salvation.

As a wise brother simply put it, "I do not believe that God has the power to save you, but then has not the power to keep you. "

 

[dev553344]

Hey Stumpmaster,
When I read this part: "and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit." What I see here, is that you can be saved and yet get drawn back into the world. If they were not saved to begin with, how could they have been "partakers of the Holy Spirit"?
I was once a believer in OSAS but, not anymore, wish it were truth! To me, it's not.

Same here except I've never believed in OSAS. But wish it were true. And to some degree it is since God says:

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

And I think people can deny God and be chastised

 

[ButterflyJones]

Same here except I've never believed in OSAS. But wish it were true. And to some degree it is since God says:

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

And I think people can deny God and be chastised

They can be chastised, sure. However, that does not mean they are cast out of his grace and their salvation is revoked by the one who gave it.

Imagine the implication behind the false teachings of revocable salvation.
No one comes to Jesus but the Father leads, calls, them.Omniscient God, who knows the names of his saved before the foundation, birth, creation, of the world and whose names he wrote down in his Lambs book of eternal life.

But he didn't foresee certain of those named ones didn't work to stay in that book. Oops, bring on the White Out, or eraser.

There's no such thing as God making a mistake when Jesus was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

 

[dev553344]

They can be chastised, sure. However, that does not mean they are cast out of his grace and their salvation is revoked by the one who gave it.

Imagine the implication behind the false teachings of revocable salvation.
No one comes to Jesus but the Father leads, calls, them.Omniscient God, who knows the names of his saved before the foundation, birth, creation, of the world and whose names he wrote down in his Lambs book of eternal life.

But he didn't foresee certain of those named ones didn't work to stay in that book. Oops, bring on the White Out, or eraser.

There's no such thing as God making a mistake when Jesus was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

Well as the scripture that @Stumpmaster posted in the OP does suggest people can fall away. Sad but true.