What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Preacher4Truth]

Then we have gone full circle. This is how you started off your comments to me in this thread.

Let's put this into perspective. Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity. I will quote Him any time when explaining Christian doctrine. But you don't consider the founder of LDS to be a reliable source when it comes to understanding basic LDS doctrine.

I realize that LDS doctrine has changed over the years, but when I want to understand a belief system, I go back to the foundation of that belief system. Joseph Smith is considered to be the prophet that founded Mormonism and established its early basic doctrine.
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It is refreshing seeing another who knows these truths.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

We've talked about Christ and the well known undeniable fact that your "Christ," the "Christ" of Joseph Smith, Young, Woodruff, Snow, yourself and Mormons is not the Christ of Scripture. Now, which Christ do you wish to "discuss?" The brother of Satan, offspring of a physical relationship with Mary, a created being, or, the Christ of Scripture?

Ditch the stramwan arguments and barbs Preacher4Truth!

I believe in Jesus Christ, Son of God, whom created the world, was born of a virgin, lived, suffered, and died for my sins*. He rose again, so that I too may rise again*. He is the center of my world, the foundation of who I am. He empowers me to do all the good thing I do, and comforts me when I screw up. He is my hope and my salvation*.

Talk about Christ with me! Celebrate Him!

*And everyone else too whom believes in Him.

 

[Grailhunter]

Then read this. I edited my post.

David is called a prophet in this verse:

Acts 2:29-31--Brothers, I can confidently speak to you about the patriarch David: He is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Since he was a prophet, he knew that God had sworn an oath to him to seat one of his descendants on his throne. Seeing this in advance, he spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah: He was not left in Hades, and His flesh did not experience decay.

Yes, I know the scripture....I am saying we might want to expand the definition of prophet.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Ditch the stramwan arguments and barbs Preacher4Truth.

The barbs stem from you and there were zero straw man arguments.

You can make all the claims you desire. Mixing a few facts, unqualified, with the false Christ of Mormonism does not turn him into the true.

You've also not denied the false Christ of Mormonism that I described, and, you're still disingenuous. John 8:24.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The barbs stem from you.

You can make all the claims you desire. Mixing a few facts, unqualified, with the false Christ of Mormonism does not turn him into the true.

You've also not denied the false Christ of Mormonism that I described, and, you're still disingenuous. John 8:24.

I described actual LDS Christian beliefs.

If you want me to discuss any of the false straw man myths you mentioned, we can. If you don't care, that's cool your choice and I won't waste either of our time.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Ditch the stramwan arguments and barbs Preacher4Truth!

I believe in the Jesus Christ, Son of God, whom created the world, was born of a virgin, lived, suffered, and died for my sins*. He rose again, so that I too may rise again*. He is the center of my world, the foundation of who I am. He empowers me to do all the good thing I do, and comforts me when I screw up. He is my hope and my salvation*.

*And everyone else too whom believes in Him.

Jane, this is great! I'm glad that you believe these things.

This thread is about what Mormons believe, i.e. Mormon doctrine, especially where Mormon doctrine contradicts the Bible.

So, you can tell us your generals beliefs, but your specific beliefs must align with LDS doctrine, or you wouldn't be an LDS member in good standing. And at least some basic Mormon doctrine is based on books other than the Bible, and these books contradict the Bible....

To give one example, LDS beliefs about the temple rituals are unbiblical. Nowhere in the Bible are Christians instructed to build temples. In fact, the veil of temple was torn in two when Jesus died on the cross. He opened the way for us to enter the Holy of Holies by His blood! No longer does man have to be separated from the presence of God by a veil concealing His presence.

Hebrews 10:19-23-- Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness to enter the sanctuary through the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way He has opened for us through the curtain (that is, His flesh), and since we have a great high priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water. Let us hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
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[Jane_Doe22]

Jane, this is great! I'm glad that you believe these things.

This thread is about what Mormons believe, i.e. Mormon doctrine, especially where Mormon doctrine contradicts the Bible.

So, you can tell us your generals beliefs, but your specific beliefs must align with LDS doctrine, or you wouldn't be an LDS member in good standing.
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What I stated is actual LDS Christian beliefs on Christ. Christ is the most important subject anyone can talk about.

And at least some basic Mormon doctrine is based on books other than the Bible, and these books contradict the Bible....

LDS Christians aren't Sola Scriptura. If you believe that it's essential to believe Sola Scriptura in order to be saved, then we can talk about that point more in depth.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

It's a remarkable thing to behold that many here quote, document, mention the official teachings of Mormons and its fraudulent and criminal founder Joseph Smith and yet none of those are its actual teachings.

But of course their not, not even from its official site.

Such a denial is patently false and totally disingenuous.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It's a remarkable thing to behold that many here quote, document, mention the official teachings of Mormons and its fraudulent and criminal founder Joseph Smith and yet none of those are its actual teachings.

But of course their not, not even from its official site.

Such a denial is patently false and totally disingenuous.

Once again: "anti cultists" turn the conversation to talking about Joseph Smith rather than Christ .

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Hi, everyone! It’s been a long while since I’ve posted; although, I have lurked a little here and there. Some of my last posts were on a thread concerning Mormonism (and, I think, maybe Buddhism).

When I was a child, I had an aunt and uncle who became Mormons (also called LDS, Latter Day Saints). As far as I knew, it was just another Christian denomination with a few unusual practices, like abstaining from coffee and storing two year’s worth of food.

A few years after I became a Christian, I read a book cowritten by an ex-Mormon, and I was shocked to learn that this group that calls itself Christian has very few beliefs that strictly line up with the Bible. I saw that this especially applies to their beliefs about Jesus Christ.

Consider what Paul told Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:1-5—

I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is going to judge the living and the dead, and because of His appearing and His kingdom: Proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke, correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching. For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new. They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths. But as for you, be serious about everything, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.​

The gospel according to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was certainly “something new” and is based on what Paul would call unsubstantiated “myths.” In fact, Mormons believe that Joseph Smith preached a “restored” gospel, but it's clearly a different gospel from the Christian gospel found in the Bible.

This is what lds.org has to say about it:

After the deaths of the Savior and His Apostles, men corrupted the principles of the gospel and made unauthorized changes in Church organization and priesthood ordinances. Because of this widespread apostasy, the Lord withdrew the authority of the priesthood from the earth. This apostasy lasted until Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820 and initiated the Restoration of the fulness of the gospel.
Source: lds.org — Apostasy​

Discussions about Mormonism on this forum led me to look into this organization again. But I found that it’s very difficult to get ahold of all of their beliefs partly because some of their major beliefs and practices are cloaked in secrecy. This alone sets off alarm bells in my mind. As a Christian of over forty years, I have attended churches of many different denominations, but I have never attended a church that hid any of their official beliefs or practices from anyone.

A couple of months ago, I was blessed to find a book by an ex-Mormon who had converted to Mormonism in her twenties and spent thirty years as a devout Mormon, even serving as a tenured professor at Brigham Young University. The title of the book is Unveiling Grace: the Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church by Dr. Lynn Wilder.

Since I don’t have a background in Mormonism, I decided to let this ex-Mormon explain some of the many unbiblical doctrines and practices of the Mormon religion. As a “temple-worthy” Mormon for many years, she is certainly qualified to do this, so I will be quoting directly from her book. It is important to note that the author’s husband served in various leadership positions, including that of high priest. They also have three sons who served as Mormon missionaries.

One of the things I loved about this book is that it clearly was not written to hate on anyone. In fact, I saw the love of Jesus Christ in the heart of the author, and I found this to be very uplifting. I highly recommend this book!

The love of God compels me to speak the truth about this to anyone who has ears to hear. It is my earnest prayer that Mormons and seekers who read this will see the truth and come to know the true Jesus Christ of the Bible as their Savior and Lord.

Jesus said in John 8:32, “If you continue in My word, you really are My disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

***Please note that I have obtained written permission from the author to quote her work. (All emphasis in bold in the quoted text has been added.)

Lynn Wilder’s bio: Lynn K. Wilder is a former tenured professor at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah. She and her husband Michael left the Mormon Church after thirty years of devoted service to the church. Throughout those years, they held leadership positions and worked inside of the temple. In addition to raising their four children, the Wilders taught Mormon seminary, while Lynn went to doctoral school. Lynn’s previous experience teaching moved her into an instructor position at Ball State University in Muncie, Indiana before being offered a prestigious professorial position at BYU, the Mormon “School of the Prophets.” As a result of their journey out of Mormonism and their desire to help others, the Wilders have formed Ex- Mormon Christians United For Jesus and their children are involved with a musical ministry, Adam’s Road, that work together to keep Christians safe from the pernicious false christs, false apostles, and false prophets, desiring that a veritable flood of Mormons will come to proclaim the Christ of the Bible and that Christians will avoid joining the Mormon Church. More information can be found at Ex-mormon Christians United For Jesus | Sharing Biblical truth in love | Home and www.adamsroadband.com.​

The following excerpt is from Chapter 3 of Unveiling Grace: the Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church by Dr. Lynn Wilder:

The LDS Church teaches that before the creation of the world, Heavenly Father had sired and Heavenly Mother had borne millions of their spirit children. After the world was created, these spirits eagerly waited to come to earth to receive physical bodies. Only the righteous spirits who had followed Jesus (not Satan) in the pre-existence war in heaven were allowed by Heavenly Father to come to earth. They longed to be born into a “righteous” family (Mormon), in which they could learn the “true gospel of Jesus Christ” (Mormonism).

Wilder, Lynn K.. Unveiling Grace (p. 45). Zondervan. Kindle Edition. (Emphasis in bold was added.)​

The following excerpts are from Chapter 14:

In Mormonism, the three members of the godhead are separate gods. The Christ I knew was an exalted man who worked his way to become a god. Some even believed he had once been a sinner. He had a body of flesh and bones and could be in only one place at one time. His blood alone did not wash away all sins. I related to this Christ because he was like me, and I thought of him as a kindly brother. Michael and I, as a temple-attending couple, were on the same path to godhood that this Christ had taken (well, I would be a queen or a priestess to my husband in his role as god); this Mormon Christ was just farther ahead.​

The Heavenly Father of Mormonism also had a body of flesh and bones. He could not be in more than one place at a time either. He lived near the star Kolob. I thought of him as a merciless judge.​

The Holy Ghost of Mormonism could be in only one place at one time as well. I received the gift of the Holy Ghost after Mormon baptism by the laying on of hands, and the Holy Ghost’s influence remained with me (shining down like the sun), but only until I sinned. If I did anything wrong, his influence left me, and I would experience trials until I repented. We took the sacrament every Sunday to have the sin janitor — the Mormon priesthood, who represented Jesus — sweep away these sins so the Holy Ghost’s influence could again shine down and we could be delivered from our sin-induced suffering.​

In the pages of the Bible, however, I found a different God. This was a much bigger God whose words challenged my Mormon godhead. “Biggie-size your God!” a Pastor Shaw later told us. And that’s just what happened…. This bigger God has a message that conflicts with Mormonism. As I read the New International Version (and checked with the King James Version used by Mormons), I came upon blatant contradictions between teachings in the Bible and Mormon Church doctrine. Even though I’d taught the Bible in Mormon seminary, I had never paid attention to these contradictions…. We had been taught that we could read the Bible, but since the Bible was corrupt, we could not interpret it in any way that opposed Mormon doctrine.

Wilder, Lynn K.. Unveiling Grace (pp. 194-197). Zondervan. Kindle Edition. (Emphasis in bold was added.)
​

Wonderful post! Thanks for taking the time to write it and document it, even though it's official teachings will be flat out denied.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Once again: "anti cultists" turn the conversation to talking about Joseph Smith rather than Christ .

The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Scripture.

I'm not anti cult, though you are in one. I am anti false Christs, doctrines, gospels.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Scripture.

Repeating:

I believe in Jesus Christ, Son of God, whom created the world, was born of a virgin, lived, suffered, and died for my sins*. He rose again, so that I too may rise again*. He is the center of my world, the foundation of who I am. He empowers me to do all the good thing I do, and comforts me when I screw up. He is my hope and my salvation*.

Talk about Christ with me! Celebrate Him!

*And everyone else too whom believes in Him.

 

[Grailhunter]

Belief control....world domination. The ism's of the delusional. It is the dreams of every denomination that those in pews believe their doctrines and what they preach to them. It rarely happens, unless they are practicing some form of mind control.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Repeating:

I believe in Jesus Christ, Son of God, whom created the world, was born of a virgin, lived, suffered, and died for my sins*. He rose again, so that I too may rise again*. He is the center of my world, the foundation of who I am. He empowers me to do all the good thing I do, and comforts me when I screw up. He is my hope and my salvation*.

Talk about Christ with me! Celebrate Him!

*And everyone else too whom believes in Him.

The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Scripture. You may or may not know this. Stating some facts about him, making claims about him do not turn the false Christ of Mormonism into the true. John 8:24.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Scripture.

I'm not anti cult, though you are in one. I am anti false Christs, doctrines, gospels.

That is going to get a response! Your telling me that the blood thirsty mind control puppet master that play Satan is the God of the scriptures. What would be the worst cult, one that would slander the character of God, to edify themselves.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Scripture. You may or may not know this. Stating some facts about him, making claims about him do not turn the false Christ of Mormonism into the true. John 8:24.

If you have concerns about what I believe about Christ, then talk to me and listen to my responses.

If you'd rather not and you're just convinced I'm damned, then you can go on believing that, and we can quit wasting time attempting to talk about it.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Here are a bunch of "lies" aka documentable facts about the Mormon sect, because, you know, everyone lies about them and are out to get them.

9 Things You Should Know About Mormonism

 

[Preacher4Truth]

If you have concerns about what I believe about Christ, then talk to me and listen to my responses.

If you'd rather not and you're just convinced I'm damned, then you can go on believing that, and we can quit wasting time attempting to talk about it.

I've expressed my concerns, have given documentable facts as have others, yet you deny even the official teachings of your sect.

The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Scripture. Satan has convinced many it is true because he has mixed a few truths and has coupled a false created Christ to them.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

9 Things You Should Know About Mormonism

I scanned this article. It looks very good. The author documents what he says using LDS materials.

 

[Grailhunter]

I've expressed my concerns, have given documentable facts as have others, yet you deny even the official teachings of your sect.

The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Scripture. Satan has convinced many it is true because he has mixed a few truths and has coupled a false created Christ to them.

Again, your telling me that the blood thirsty mind control puppet master that play Satan is the God of the scriptures. What would be the worst cult, one that would slander the character of God, to edify themselves. The god you bend the knee to, by your own description has the character of Satan.

The LDS church teaches that as the Bible has been transmitted over the centuries it has “suffered the loss of many plain and precious parts.” They believe the Bible to be the word of God “as far as it is translated correctly” and that the “most reliable way to measure the accuracy of any biblical passage is not by comparing different texts.....
Well, in way they are right, The KJV as well as many other translations have over 30,000 additions, alterations, deletions.