What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Prayer Warrior

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2018
5,789
5,776
113
U.S.A.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
On Polygamy… Is it not odd that the Bible should specify that it seems to be only if a man wants to be an Elder, that having just one wife comes into play? Doesn't that seem like Polygamy was probably an accepted practice among the rank-and-file Christian membership years after Jesus returned to Heaven? When/where does the Bible direct that to stop?

(BTW, "No", I'm not for Polygamy.)
Whether polygamy was an "accepted" practice is not the issue. God does not tell men to engage in this practice, but Joseph Smith did.

This is what Jesus said in Matthew 19:

“Haven’t you read,” He replied, “that He who created them in the beginning made them male and female,” and He also said:
“ For this reason a man will leave
his father and mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh?
So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, man must not separate.”
“Why then,” they asked Him, “did Moses command us to give divorce papers and to send her away?”
He told them, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of the hardness of your hearts. But it was not like that from the beginning. And I tell you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”
I don't see ANY room for more than one wife in this scripture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

Prayer Warrior

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2018
5,789
5,776
113
U.S.A.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And you of course can do that.


Did Lynn bother to tell you that her husband being a high priest simply mean that he's a LDS Christian male over the age of 40?
Or the BYU doesn't have any religious requirements for it's tenured faulty and some are openly atheist? (Same with the non-tenured, students, and staff).
Thank you, JD. I will check this out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

Anthony D'Arienzo

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2019
2,585
2,084
113
70
georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Could even be where the term "moron" comes from..."moroni", the evil angel preying on a human.
Well we can just go ahead and say it does...same difference.
Laminites, nephites, the planet kolub,lol
None of which existed in reality. Just a demonic lie by a mislead apostate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ and 4Jesus
B

brakelite

Guest
On Polygamy… Is it not odd that the Bible should specify that it seems to be only if a man wants to be an Elder, that having just one wife comes into play? Doesn't that seem like Polygamy was probably an accepted practice among the rank-and-file Christian membership years after Jesus returned to Heaven? When/where does the Bible direct that to stop?

(BTW, "No", I'm not for Polygamy.)
And that is precisely how my wife's cousin's husband justified it. He challenged us to prove from the Bible that polygamy was not a godly practice. After all... Everyone was doing it right? And it couldn't be adultery.. Because they were married.
 

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The thing is @Jane_Doe22 , we all know what your beliefs are. You have written extensively of your love for Jesus and your commitment to the LDS church. You have also, with total unswerving loyalty, denied every attempt by others who have quoted explicit LDS books... Quoted ex LDS members... To publish what the church actually teaches. Now of course you enter the conversation and state that this is not what you believe. That we should ask you what Mormons believe and teach. And that what we should be doing is asking you what you believe. But Jane, we already know what you believe. What we are discussing is what the actual LDS church teaches, both historically and currently... And what not just ex members said the church taught them... But current members also... Which you deny. ( My wife's first cousin and her husband were long members of the church, and even after their divorce, still are. He was an elder at the local temple. He, in front of his wife, testified to his firm belief that polygamy was fully approved of God and justifiable... And if the law of the land allowed it, he would take another wife. Now I really don't mind if you believe this is a wrong teaching... Good on you... So do I. The thing is, your church does not think it a wrong teaching and many members of your church agree with it.
You keep asking us to ask you your o pinion. Why? Your opinion isn't in doubt nor is it being challenged. It is your church that concerns us. It is the teachings of your church that concerns us. You on the other hand seem to have beliefs completely different to the LDS church. One wonders why you would continue to be a member there if you disagree with so many of their teachings.
brakelite, I'm OCD honest and extremely committed to truth.

What people "know" about the church, frankly, doesn't match reality. Some people listen and get things clarified, a lot just try to inform me that "I know what your churches beliefs better than you do". So I offer to clarify. And we run through the same thing again and again with the next person. It's extremely tedious, but my commitment to truthfulness isn't contingent on something not being tedious.

Regardless, my faith is not changed because of somebody else's understanding / lack thereof.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Technically speaking though, Joseph Smith could've been telling the truth, but was just a "useful idiot" to an evil angel who was the liar and deceiver. God does tell us to "test the spirits" in 1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

Perhaps Smith failed to do so, and propogated the deception he incurred.
Dude: disciple of Christ. Not Joseph Smith. I don't idolize him, and nobody else needs to idolize him for their bashing either.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
brakelite, I'm OCD honest and extremely committed to truth.

What people "know" about the church, frankly, doesn't match reality. Some people listen and get things clarified, a lot just try to inform me that "I know what your churches beliefs better than you do". So I offer to clarify. And we run through the same thing again and again with the next person. It's extremely tedious, but my commitment to truthfulness isn't contingent on something not being tedious.

Regardless, my faith is not changed because of somebody else's understanding / lack thereof.
What it boils down to is that what you tell us what the church teaches, and that is truth. What others quote from actual church sources, and from ex members, cannot be truth because you say it isn't, and you are honest. Which means everyone else is lying.
 

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well we can just go ahead and say it does...same difference.
Laminites, nephites, the planet kolub,lol
None of which existed in reality. Just a demonic lie by a mislead apostate.

:D

To me, it's the real connection to Egypt (whether those writings were actual ancient Egyptian writings or not, I don't know, but the just the claim that it was is sufficient) that can disprove that it is wholly Christian (not diluted nor mixed).

Same pattern with paganism and Christianity that begot the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Why not utilize a pattern of attack that worked so well before (even if separated by a 1000+ years).
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What it boils down to is that what you tell us what the church teaches, and that is truth. What others quote from actual church sources, and from ex members, cannot be truth because you say it isn't, and you are honest. Which means everyone else is lying.
"Lying" implies that somebody knows something is false and tells you it anyways.

Most folks on here and other places aren't aware that what they "know" about LDS beliefs doesn't match up to reality. They see quotes taken out of context, go with folk "knowledge" etc. It is innocently not knowing better.

Hence my offer to continually clarify.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Dude: disciple of Christ. Not Joseph Smith. I don't idolize him, and nobody else needs to idolize him for their bashing either.

I didn't say you, or even the church at large, does idolize Smith; nor am I denying that your savior is Jesus Christ.

Smith is the founder however, no? His teachings, combined with the Holy Bible, formed a whole new book, the Book of Mormon, no? How diluted the writings/teachings of Smith has become in present day, I can't say; however, the foundation upon which the present day church was built included non-Biblical writings/teachings; new information, if you will, from an evil angel, that could have, probably was, deceiving about being a good angel from God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
(quoted post re-ordered for better flow in reply).
nor am I denying that your savior is Jesus Christ.
Then please quit denying that I am a Christian.

I didn't say you, or even the church at large, does idolize Smith
Actually, LDS Christians very much acknowledge that Joseph Smith was a sinner, like all men. Also do believe that he was a servant of God, but he also was a sinner. The only Perfect man to walk this Earth was Jesus Christ.
Smith is the founder however, no? His teachings, combined with the Holy Bible, formed a whole new book, the Book of Mormon, no?
No on all accounts.
It is Christ's Church. He lead for olden days, speaking & guiding, and continues to do so today.
Joseph Smith is viewed as one of many prophets/apostles of old and new. But he's was/is still a sinner, and it's not remotely his church.
which the present day church was built included non-Biblical writings/teachings; new information, if you will.
LDS Christians aren't sola Biblia. If you want to stone me for that, you can.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
"Lying" implies that somebody knows something is false and tells you it anyways.

Most folks on here and other places aren't aware that what they "know" about LDS beliefs doesn't match up to reality. They see quotes taken out of context, go with folk "knowledge" etc. It is innocently not knowing better.

Hence my offer to continually clarify.
So are you saying that the Father did not become a God? That Jesus did not become a God after graduating from God school? That there weren't millions of spirit children born in heaven before becoming mortal men? That we are not going to become gods with our own planets? That there aren't handshakes and signs and special underwear and baptisms for dead people and that LDS teaching isn't the sole true gospel and that other churches are apostate?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TLHKAJ and 4Jesus

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Enoch111, if you want to advocate that the best way to learn about a faith is to include ex-axe-grinders, then you need to be consistent about that logic-- willing to apply it to your own specific faith, as well as others. To do otherwise is to be a hypocritical.
I am not advocating anything. But for anyone to claim that ex-cult members cannot be trusted to show why cultish teachings were false is plain dishonest.

The bottom line is that MORMONISM IS NOT BIBLE CHRISTIANITY. Even if we disregard the doctrines, the Masonic rituals of the Mormon Temple are sufficient evidence, along with baptism for the dead.
 

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So are you saying that the Father did not become a God? That Jesus did not become a God after graduating from God school? That there weren't millions of spirit children born in heaven before becoming mortal men? That we are not going to become gods with our own planets? That there aren't handshakes and signs and special underwear and baptisms for dead people and that LDS teaching isn't the sole true gospel and that other churches are apostate?
Do oyu want me to go through this list and clarify what's accurate, what's halfway, and what's completely not?
 

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am not advocating anything. But for anyone to claim that ex-cult members cannot be trusted to show why cultish teachings were false is plain dishonest.

The bottom line is that MORMONISM IS NOT BIBLE CHRISTIANITY. Even if we disregard the doctrines, the Masonic rituals of the Mormon Temple are sufficient evidence, along with baptism for the dead.
If you confine "Biblical Christianity" as being your particular subclass of Protestant Christianity, then it is not.

I don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
One of the issues that has plagued LDS for many years is the issue of polygamy, and the promotion of polygamy was not a peripheral issue at all in the writings of Joseph Smith and subsequent LDS leaders. Lynn Wilder's husband had to grapple with this issue. She explains this in the following excerpt.

***Please note that I have obtained written permission from the author to quote her work. (Any emphasis in bold in the quoted text has been added.)


The following excerpt is from Chapter 18 of Unveiling Grace: the Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church by Dr. Lynn Wilder:

Did God Ordain Polygamy?

Mike [author’s husband] was confused about polygamy. Did God command Joseph Smith to practice it, as Mike had been taught all these years? He was also taught that God commanded Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon to practice it. Well, this was pretty good company to be associated with. Mike hated the idea of polygamy, but it must be okay with God if he asked these men to do it. Who was he to tell God what to do?

Through his Bible reading, Mike was learning to trust God’s Word. He thought, I will just reread the Bible and get proof that polygamy is justified. This seemed a simple task. He was positive that an angel had told Sarah to give Hagar to Abraham as a second wife, or at least an angel had told Abraham. He would just read this story and find it. After an intense study of Genesis chapters 11 through 25, he found no commandment given to Abraham to practice polygamy. This must not be translated correctly, he thought, still caught in Mormon anti-biblical thought. Mike read about Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon. Nowhere did God tell these men to practice polygamy. It was not in the Word of God.

Where did I read about God giving Abraham the authority to practice polygamy? I know I read it somewhere . . . Then he found it, but not in the Bible. It’s in Mormon scripture D&C 132:1: “I, the Lord [Mormon Jesus], justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, Jacob . . . as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines.” And D&C 132:37: “Abraham received concubines and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.” D&C 132:65: “I [Mormon Jesus] commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.”

The Bible gives no divine authorization for the practice of polygamy. In contrast, the Mormon scriptures do. Joseph Smith supposedly received direct revelation from Jesus Christ himself that polygamy is an eternal doctrine of the Mormon Church commanded by God. Which is right, the Bible or Mormon scripture? They can’t both be correct. They’re polar opposites.​

Wilder, Lynn K.. Unveiling Grace (pp. 280-281). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
Lol, you can sit in any church in America and be in the presence of many who have had multiple partners.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus