What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Prayer Warrior]

Lol, you can sit in any church in America and be in the presence of many who have had multiple partners.

True, but that would be in violation of our scriptures, don't you think?

 

[4Jesus]

(quoted post re-ordered for better flow in reply).

Then please quit denying that I am a Christian.

Please point out where I said "you are not saved by Jesus Christ" or "you are not a Christian". Otherwise, conflating the two concepts, is irrelvant to this discussion.

I also believe the Catholic Church is watered-down Christianity, and has introduced concepts that are not Christian. That does not mean I don't believe its followers are saved by Jesus Christ, nor are not going to Heaven.

Of course, my belief doesn't make it true either, or false, so *shrug*...

Actually, LDS Christians very much acknowledge that Joseph Smith was a sinner, like all men. Also do believe that he was a servant of God, but he also was a sinner. The only Perfect man to walk this Earth was Jesus Christ.

Ok, cool. My response was to your inclusion that I implied Smith was idolized, by you and other members. Which I have not claimed nor implied.

No on all accounts.
It is Christ's Church. He lead for olden days, speaking & guiding, and continues to do so today.
Joseph Smith is viewed as one of many prophets/apostles of old and new. But he's was/is still a sinner, and it's not remotely his church.

Can we back this up...do you agree that the Book of Mormon exists? I'm sure you do. As @Prayer Warrior brought up, why is this book utilized at all then, and not just the Holy Bible...is it because it has new information in it, or at least, supplemental information in it?

LDS Christians aren't sola Biblia. If you want to stone me for that, you can.

I don't want to stone you for anything, nor anyone really; nor did I even think it was an option. Nice thought you have there...

I think that's the issue, at least for me, is the belief that by being non-sola Biblia, it can lead to false information being included as "gospel".

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Why do you think Lynn neglected to tell you that these titles she waves around don't hold any actual authority?

Like I said, I'll check it out. But I have a big problem believing that they hold NO authority at all.

I'm interested in hearing why you think someone could be a Mormon in good standing for 30 years and not have a clue about LDS doctrine. So, there's a question for you.

 

[Waiting on him]

True, but that would be in violation of our scriptures, don't you think?

Depends on what denomination you sit under, I believe the violation takes place when we try to bring our brother/sister under condemnation and murder them.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Do oyu want me to go through this list and clarify what's accurate, what's halfway, and what's completely not?

Please forgive me for replying to a comment that was not directed at me, but I have another question for you.

How is it that YOU KNOW LDS doctrine, but someone who believed it for 30 years doesn't understand it? That seems a little strange to me. Does that understanding exit the mind when the person is not longer LDS???

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Depends on what denomination you sit under, I believe the violation takes place when we try to bring our brother/sister under condemnation and murder them.

I'm talking Bible, not denominational doctrine. You need to read the scripture I quoted above from Matthew. That's what I go by.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Okay.

Cool. I'm to break your paragraph up by subject and keep this reply pithy, feel free to ask for any elaboration.

So are you saying that the Father did not become a God? That Jesus did not become a God after graduating from God school? That there weren't millions of spirit children born in heaven before becoming mortal men? That we are not going to become gods with our own planets? That there aren't handshakes and signs and special underwear and baptisms for dead people and that LDS teaching isn't the sole true gospel and that other churches are apostate?

- People having lived as spirits before mortal birth & believing Jeremiah 1:5 literally is indeed LDS Christian doctrine and a central one. I very much believe this.

- Anything about the Father's past is a speculative topic, and not remotely a central belief. You'll find LDS Christians all over the spectrum of beliefs on this (including many who haven't even thought about it). To approach this subject requires a lot of pre-discussion about God, LDS Christians not accepting Creedal philosophy, and the role of prophets, that LDS Christians don't believe in automatic infallibility, etc.

- The "planet" thing is a gross mischaracterization. LDS Christians believe that in the eternities that Christ's disciples will become fully like Him, through His power.

- Outward symbols are contextual, just like any other teaching tool, used to convey a certain message to a particular student body. The tool isn't remotely the actual message.

- Baptisms for the dead takes a lot of clarification what is actually meant-- you'd be amazed how many people think it involves corpses or that "makes Frank a Mormon". But once clarified on what is actually going on, very much believed.

- Believing that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the most correct church and other folks have some manner of things wrong: yes. Likewise does every other person in the world think their beliefs are the most correct and other people diagreeing means they got something wrong.

So there's a legitimate Christianity that isn't biblical?

How are you defining "Biblical"?

If define "Biblical" as something that is in accordance to the Bible and God's Truth. It's not limited to what is inscribed just in whatever number of books your particular Bible has nor any human's interpretation of it.

But I am well aware that other people define "Biblical" as meaning "in agreement with my particular Protestant and Creedal beliefs".

 

[Waiting on him]

I'm talking Bible, not denominational doctrine. You need to read the scripture I quoted above from Matthew. That's what I go by.

Aw the rod of correction is in your hand. I’d prefer you come to me in love.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Aw the rod of correction is in your hand. I’d prefer you come to me in love.

The rod of correction is administered in love. If not, then it doesn't lead to correction.

 

[Waiting on him]

The rod of correction is administered in love. If not, then it doesn't lead to correction.

And your the administrator??

 

[Prayer Warrior]

And your the administrator??

No, the Word of God is.

Edit: Hebrews 4:12-13
For the word of God is living and effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, penetrating as far as the separation of soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the ideas and thoughts of the heart. No creature is hidden from Him, but all things are naked and exposed to the eyes of Him to whom we must give an account.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Please point out where I said "you are not saved by Jesus Christ" or "you are not a Christian". Otherwise, conflating the two concepts, is irrelvant to this discussion.

I also believe the Catholic Church is watered-down Christianity, and has introduced concepts that are not Christian. That does not mean I don't believe its followers are saved by Jesus Christ, nor are not going to Heaven.

My apologies, I misunderstood you here.

Ok, cool. My response was to your inclusion that I implied Smith was idolized, by you and other members. Which I have not claimed nor implied.

My apologies again if I was too sharp.

It is my experience that a lot of folks mistake Joseph Smith's role in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Thinking that LDS Christians worship him, think he was perfect, or had automatic infallibility. That is not remotely the case.

Can we back this up...do you agree that the Book of Mormon exists? I'm sure you do. As @Prayer Warrior brought up, why is this book utilized at all then, and not just the Holy Bible...is it because it has new information in it, or at least, supplemental information in it?

LDS Christians believe that God lives and still speaks: that He continues to lead and teach His people. Christ Himself is put first as the ultimate authority, not men's interpretation of any book, including scripture. So the Bible and the Book of Mormon are not on top.

I don't want to stone you for anything, nor anyone really; nor did I even think it was an option. Nice thought you have there...

I think that's the issue, at least for me, is the belief that by being non-sola Biblia, it can lead to false information being included as "gospel".

Sola Biblia can also lead to false ideas (such as the many conflicting ideas in Protestantism).

The key is discernment: asking God Himself to help guide a person in what is His Truth.

 

[Waiting on him]

@Jane_Doe22 God says husband of one wife, Who is your Husband??

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Like I said, I'll check it out. But I have a big problem believing that they hold NO authority at all.

They really don't.

I'm interested in hearing why you think someone could be a Mormon in good standing for 30 years and not have a clue about LDS doctrine. So, there's a question for you.

The same way a person can sit on a Protestant bench for 30+ years and have a horrible false understanding of what if believed. And if such a person later converts to another faith, that can further warp perception.

Lynn Wilder is indeed much like asking an ex-Protestant turned Muslim to explain "real" Christianity to you.

 

[Waiting on him]

No, the Word of God is.

Couldn’t agreed more!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Jane_Doe22 God says husband of one wife, Who is your Husband??

Assuming that you are asking this in the metaphorical sense, that is Christ, the one and only Son of God.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Couldn’t agreed more!

I'm glad to hear this.

 

[Waiting on him]

Assuming that you are asking this in the metaphorical sense, that is Christ, the one and only Son of God.

Well I’ll be we’re sister wives!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Lynn Wilder is indeed much like asking an ex-Protestant turned Muslim to explain "real" Christianity to you.

Last time I checked, Muslims don't accept the Bible as their scriptures; Mormons do. So, your comparison is really not legitimate.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Well I’ll be we’re sister wives!

Haha!