What No Futurist Believes

[veteran]

Eccl.12:5-7 explains what happens at flesh death. In Matt.10:28, Jesus then revealed that the 'soul' continues after flesh death. In 1 Peter 3 we're shown how Christ after His resurrection went and preached to the "spirits in prison", which confirms the Eccl.12:5-7 and Matt.10:28 Scripture. With those who came out of the graves at Christ's crucifixion, it's not written that their flesh was resurrected, nor that they continued to live upon the earth with those whom they appeared to in Jerusalem. The story Jesus gave in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man also aligns with Eccl.12:5-7 and Matt.10:28.

 

[Hitch]

Hitch ... if resurrection is just spiritual .... better call Jesus and tell him he made a hell of a mistake by letting those guys pound all those nails in him

LOL Says the idiot who complained when I posted that Christ would return in a 'real' body.

Got the anatomy for a challenge Arnie? I bet you dont but I'll post it any way;

Heres the deal;

You quote from my post proof of your silly claim above resurrection is just spiritual from my posts here or ANY where on the net.

If you can do that I will donate $100 to your chosen charity AND leave this forum forever.

If not you cover the same.

Fair enough? Come on you've been loud and mouthy, full of pious pride ,when nothing was at risk. Well?

 

[shilohsfoal]

The resurection takes place on the last day.
There are seven days.Today is the sixth day.
A day is as 1000 years .

Do you not understand hitch?

 

[Hitch]

The resurection takes place on the last day.
There are seven days.Today is the sixth day.
A day is as 1000 years .

Interesting that you folks leave out the rest of that quote, why?

Do you not understand hitch?

Can you tell me how long Jesus was in the grave?



Do you understand that its a figure of speech and not a code ?

Tell me does God own the cattle on a thousand hills- and someone else owns the others ? Or does God own everything?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Interesting that you folks leave out the rest of that quote, why? Can you tell me how long Jesus was in the grave?



Do you understand that its a figure of speech and not a code ?

Tell me does God own the cattle on a thousand hills- and someone else owns the others ? Or does God own everything?

#1 Jesus rose the third day because after 2000 years ,his body(church)would rise..
#2 I was bought for a price.


Here is a little something on the last day when Jesus comes and raises those redeemed..

THE GENERAL EPISTLE OF BARNABAS​

. And even in the beginning of the creation he makes mention of the Sabbath: And God made in six days the works of his hands; and he finished them on the seventh day, and he rested the seventh day, and sanctified it.
4. Consider, my children, what it signifies, that he finished them in six days. The meaning of it is this: that in six thousand years the Lord God will bring all things to an end.
5. For with him one day is a thousand years, as he himself testifies, saying, Behold this day will be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, will all things be accomplished.
6. And he rested the seventh day, means this: that when his Son will come, and abolish the season of the Wicked One, and judge the ungodly, and will change the sun and the moon and the stars, then he will gloriously rest in that seventh day.

 

[Hitch]

#1 Jesus rose the third day because after 2000 years ,his body(church)would rise..

But if a thousand years is as a day AND and a day is as a thousand years....

#2 I was bought for a price.

cute dodge SF

Here is a little something on the last day when Jesus comes and raises those redeemed..

THE GENERAL EPISTLE OF BARNABAS​

. And even in the beginning of the creation he makes mention of the Sabbath: And God made in six days the works of his hands; and he finished them on the seventh day, and he rested the seventh day, and sanctified it.
4. Consider, my children, what it signifies, that he finished them in six days. The meaning of it is this: that in six thousand years the Lord God will bring all things to an end.
5. For with him one day is a thousand years, as he himself testifies, saying, Behold this day will be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, will all things be accomplished.
6. And he rested the seventh day, means this: that when his Son will come, and abolish the season of the Wicked One, and judge the ungodly, and will change the sun and the moon and the stars, then he will gloriously rest in that seventh day.

Couldnt find that in the Bible eh ?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Here is where you said it.

Arnie did Jesus say the believer already has eternal life?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Hmmmm 'from death,,,unto life. Resurrection ?

Only for those humans who were once dead in sin. Im certain that doesnt apply to you and you have no need of spiritual resurrection .

 

[Hitch]

Here is where you said it.

Yawn ;;;your quote

Hitch ... if resurrection is just spiritual .... better call Jesus and tell him he made a hell of a mistake by letting those guys pound all those nails in him

Emphasis added. Nothing in my post ,says, nor implies 'resurrection is just spiritual' . Would care to try again moron ?



Arnie for reasons only he knows was careful to leave out the second half of that post, its still up on this thread ,copied below;

":But you're half right about the two resurrections, number one s listed by John;

[sup]24 [/sup]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
[sup]25 [/sup]Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


Am I too far out on a limb to expect that even you can see this must refer to a spiritual reality rather than physical ?


The other is listed soon after;


Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[sup]29 [/sup]And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



Any moron can see that the ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES is defined by Christ personally in the next line as both the good and the evil.

But this is all way over your head. "

 

[shilohsfoal]

But if a thousand years is as a day AND and a day is as a thousand years.... cute dodge SF Couldnt find that in the Bible eh ?

I understood it long ago in the bible ,before I ever read Barnabus.
I just thought I would make ir simple for you to understand.

Obviously you still cant understand..
As for the title of this thread.It is wrong.

I too like Barnabus and the apostles believe the resurection is on the last day.
Then comes the day of rest.That known as the milinial reign.

 

[Hitch]

I understood it long ago in the bible ,before I ever read Barnabus.
I just thought I would make ir simple for you to understand.

Obviously you still cant understand..
As for the title of this thread.It is wrong.

I too like Barnabus and the apostles believe the resurection is on the last day.
Then comes the day of rest.That known as the milinial reign.

So the last day is now the day before the last day. LOL

So Jesus says the resurrection in on the last day and you say its before, its right above in print. You dont believe what Jesus says.

Thanx for a fine example.

 

[Stan]

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48I am that bread of life.
49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Whats funny is that most futurists claim to take the scriptures literally. Yet they seldom ,if ever quote Jesus Christ.

I have no problem with ANYTHING Jesus says. It's people that use the scripture in a way to elicit argument or simply use it as a way to draw attention away from their own lack of understanding of the way scripture is intended to be understood, by anyone who understands basic grade school grammar, that bothers me. The sense in which Jesus is talking here is called Synecdoche. Look it up and learn. To suggest you truly believe Christians are to be cannibals, is not only disingenuous but shows your total lack of understanding of the nuances of the scriptures, or for that matter ANY book you would try to read. Honest debate is ALWAYS appreciated, but this type of debate using mis-direction, deliberate mis-interpretation, strawmen and ad hominem attacks, is NOT. I suggest you go find somewhere else to play.

What OTHERS may note here is that Jesus is also setting up communion as a part of the church's structure. (Matt. 26: 26-28; Mark 14: 22-24; Luke 22: 17-20; 1 Cor. 11: 23-30).

John 6
[sup]39 [/sup]And this is the will of the one who sent me: that of all that he has given me I should lose none but raise them up on the last day. [sup]40 [/sup]For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who considers the Son and comes to believe in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
[sup]41 [/sup]Then the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” [sup]42 [/sup]And they were saying, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” [sup]43 [/sup]Jesus answered them, saying, “Do not keep grumbling among yourselves. [sup]44 [/sup]No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. [sup]45 [/sup]It stands written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. [sup]46 [/sup]Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. [sup]47 [/sup]I tell you the solemn truth, the one who believes has eternal life. [sup]48 [/sup]I am the bread of life. [sup]49 [/sup]Your fathers ate manna in the wilderness, and they died. [sup]50 [/sup]But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. [sup]51 [/sup]I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live for all time and the bread that I will give is my flesh—given on behalf of the life of the world.”
[sup]52 [/sup]Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [sup]53 [/sup]Jesus therefore said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will have no life in you. [sup]54 [/sup]The one who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day; [sup]55 [/sup]for my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. [sup]56 [/sup]The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in me, and I in him. [sup]57 [/sup]As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. [sup]58 [/sup]This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like that which your fathers ate and died. The one who feeds on this bread will live for all time.” [sup]59 [/sup]Jesus said these things when he was teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

 

[veteran]

The problem here seems to be Biblical ignorance of what the resurrection is, what type of body it is, and when it is. Paul explained it in 1 Cor.15, and I've yet to see anyone here offer that Biblical evidence, but instead continually push confusion.

The John 5 Scripture includes two different timings about the dead. The first one of John 5:25 was about the time of Christ's resurrection and His going to preach to the "spirits in prison", about those dead back to the time of the flood that were prisoners in the heavenly (1 Pet.3). The latter John 5:28-29 example is about the time of Christ's second coming, specifically the 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15 event on the last trump, and the literal gathering of Christ's Church, which also is the start of Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect per Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 40 through 47, and Revelation 22:14-15.

 

[Hitch]

The problem here seems to be Biblical ignorance of what the resurrection is, what type of body it is, and when it is. Paul explained it in 1 Cor.15, and I've yet to see anyone here offer that Biblical evidence, but instead continually push confusion.

The John 5 Scripture includes two different timings about the dead. The first one of John 5:25 was about the time of Christ's resurrection and His going to preach to the "spirits in prison", about those dead back to the time of the flood that were prisoners in the heavenly (1 Pet.3). The latter John 5:28-29 example is about the time of Christ's second coming, specifically the 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15 event on the last trump, and the literal gathering of Christ's Church, which also is the start of Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect per Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 40 through 47, and Revelation 22:14-15.

So you think nothing at all of pretending Jesus contradicts himself ,Jesus said the resurrection was at teh last day, you are contrary.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You're ignorant alright


The problem here is many of you think you know more about eschatology than Jesus.

I have no problem with ANYTHING Jesus says. It's people that use the scripture in a way to elicit argument or simply use it as a way to draw attention away from their own lack of understanding of the way scripture is intended to be understood, by anyone who understands basic grade school grammar, that bothers me. The sense in which Jesus is talking here is called Synecdoche. Look it up and learn. To suggest you truly believe Christians are to be cannibals,

Thats pathetic stan . You disgust me.

is not only disingenuous but shows your total lack of understanding of the nuances of the scriptures, or for that matter ANY book you would try to read. Honest debate is ALWAYS appreciated,

hypocrite

but this type of debate using mis-direction, deliberate mis-interpretation, strawmen

Strawman example ;To suggest you truly believe Christians are to be cannibals

,

and ad hominem attacks, is NOT. I suggest you go find somewhere else to play.

Stan you're a disgusting hypocrite and not welcome here ,man up and quit your smear campaign and start your own thread .

What OTHERS may note here is that Jesus is also setting up communion as a part of the church's structure. (Matt. 26: 26-28; Mark 14: 22-24; Luke 22: 17-20; 1 Cor. 11: 23-30).

John 6
[sup]39 [/sup]And this is the will of the one who sent me: that of all that he has given me I should lose none but raise them up on the last day. [sup]40 [/sup]For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who considers the Son and comes to believe in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
[sup]41 [/sup]Then the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” [sup]42 [/sup]And they were saying, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” [sup]43 [/sup]Jesus answered them, saying, “Do not keep grumbling among yourselves. [sup]44 [/sup]No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. [sup]45 [/sup]It stands written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. [sup]46 [/sup]Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. [sup]47 [/sup]I tell you the solemn truth, the one who believes has eternal life. [sup]48 [/sup]I am the bread of life. [sup]49 [/sup]Your fathers ate manna in the wilderness, and they died. [sup]50 [/sup]But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. [sup]51 [/sup]I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live for all time and the bread that I will give is my flesh—given on behalf of the life of the world.”
[sup]52 [/sup]Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” [sup]53 [/sup]Jesus therefore said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will have no life in you. [sup]54 [/sup]The one who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day; [sup]55 [/sup]for my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. [sup]56 [/sup]The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in me, and I in him. [sup]57 [/sup]As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. [sup]58 [/sup]This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like that which your fathers ate and died. The one who feeds on this bread will live for all time.” [sup]59 [/sup]Jesus said these things when he was teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Your BS is amusing but only to a point.

 

[veteran]

So you think nothing at all of pretending Jesus contradicts himself ,Jesus said the resurrection was at teh last day, you are contrary.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You're ignorant alright


The problem here is many of you think you know more about eschatology than Jesus.

More confusion on your part I see.

Paul rebuked those who were saying the resurrection was past (2 Tim.2:17-18).


Paul did not deny that resurrection was a fact already in place...

1 Cor 15:12-18
12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ: Whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
(KJV)



1 Cor 15:20-22
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(KJV)

The idea of resurrection BEGAN with Christ's Resurrection. If one says it did not, then they are falsely proclaiming that The Father did not raise Jesus Christ from the dead.

 

[Stan]

So you think nothing at all of pretending Jesus contradicts himself ,Jesus said the resurrection was at teh last day, you are contrary.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You're ignorant alright


The problem here is many of you think you know more about eschatology than Jesus.

Thats pathetic stan . You disgust me. hypocrite Strawman example ;To suggest you truly believe Christians are to be cannibals Stan you're a disgusting hypocrite and not welcome here ,man up and quit your smear campaign and start your own thread . Your BS is amusing but only to a point.

LOL...you need a timeout Hitch...

 

[Hitch]

More confusion on your part I see.

Paul rebuked those who were saying the resurrection was past (2 Tim.2:17-18).

Paul also said this;


Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins . Will you now accuse Paul as well? Why not?

Paul did not deny that resurrection was a fact already in place...

see above

1 Cor 15:12-18
12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ: Whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
(KJV)



1 Cor 15:20-22
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(KJV)

The idea of resurrection BEGAN with Christ's Resurrection. If one says it did not, then they are falsely proclaiming that The Father did not raise Jesus Christ from the dead.

And your point is?

I mean besides the one concealed under your hat?

 

[Stan]

Paul also said this;


Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins . Will you now accuse Paul as well? Why not? see above And your point is?

I mean besides the one concealed under your hat?

Hitch....don't go away mad.... just go away!

 

[veteran]

Paul also said this;


Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins . Will you now accuse Paul as well? Why not? see above And your point is?

I mean besides the one concealed under your hat?

What your trying to preach is the false doctrine of that Paul rebuked those of 2 Tim.2:17-18 about, saying that the resurrection is past already. That's exactly what it means to treat the resurrection as only a spiritual renewing by The Spirit, with no literal manifestation with Christ's future second coming back to this earth.

You might as well join with the New World Order hosts, if you haven't already (sounds like you have). They don't believe in God's Word about His Kingdom being manifested on this earth in the future through His Son Jesus Christ after He returns. They instead believe THEY are responsible for establishing Christ's Salvation without HIM. Who they are actually following is the Devil who is to setup his false kingdom upon this earth PRIOR to Christ's return to setup His Kingdom on this earth.

 

[Hitch]

Got the anatomy for a challenge Vet I bet you dont but I'll post it any way;

Heres the deal; below your quote in red;



What your trying to preach is the false doctrine of that Paul rebuked those of 2 Tim.2:17-18 about, saying that the resurrection is past already. That's exactly what it means to treat the resurrection as only a spiritual renewing by The Spirit, with no literal manifestation with Christ's future second coming back to this earth.

You might as well join with the New World Order hosts, if you haven't already (sounds like you have). They don't believe in God's Word about His Kingdom being manifested on this earth in the future through His Son Jesus Christ after He returns. They instead believe THEY are responsible for establishing Christ's Salvation without HIM. Who they are actually following is the Devil who is to setup his false kingdom upon this earth PRIOR to Christ's return to setup His Kingdom on this earth.




VET ;

You quote from my post proof of your silly claim above that I've said resurrection is just spiritual from my posts here or ANY where on the net.

If you can do that I will donate $100 to your chosen charity AND leave this forum forever.

If not you cover the same. (Dont forget this part )

Fair enough? Come on you've been loud and mouthy, full of pious pride ,when nothing was at risk. Well?


Got the balls Vet ?

Hey you and Arnie can work as a team . Good luck. ( I'll through in an unopened tin of Jack Knife Plug for you Arnie )

Im not kidding you punks can have this forum back all to yourselves, all you need to do is use what I've actually posted ,instead of the lies you prefer, but you cant prove your case even with everything I've posted anywhere, Change your handle to LOSER Vet and read up on Commandments 3&9.

 

[Stan]

The idea of resurrection BEGAN with Christ's Resurrection. If one says it did not, then they are falsely proclaiming that The Father did not raise Jesus Christ from the dead.

Actually the Pharisees believed in resurrection and the Sadducees didn't. That was one of the main differences between the two sects.