It’s about the belief one is separate, seeking better feeling in experience & finding only self-deception, and ultimately finding what was sought all along in the absence of the belief. The thorn is the ego, the belief, the ignorance, individual, separate self of thought. The elusive unicorn.
What was Paul's thorn in the flesh?
- Thread starter DJT_47
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Then how do you reconcile Romans 7 unless you don't believe Paul was speaking of himself in verses 7-9 wherein it's all 1st person singular and mentions something very specific, "concupiscence" per the KJV, or "covetousness/covetous desires", as in other translations?
"What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died."
Reconcile Romans 7… with what?
The thorn wasn't ego which is what Romans 7 indicates, so, how do you reconcile what you indicated the thorn in his flesh was as opposed to what Romans 7 indicates it was?
Last edited:
It seems like what’s being asked is how does what’s being said in Romans 7 reconcile with what’s being said in Romans 7.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So the devil was tempting Paul to keep him humble because of all he saw in heaven? Tempting him with concupiscence for the purpose of Satan keeping Paul humble??
Close. The devil tempts us wherein we are weak. Paul's issues related to his covetous desires, or "concupiscence" per the KJV, as noted in Romans 7, which the devil took advantage of, Paul's weakness or "thorn". The fact that Paul had these issues (no different than many of us), was a constant reminder and stuggle for him to keep him humble, that he in fact was human so as not to get "exalted above measure" because of what God had revealed to him as noted in 2 Cor 12:7-9.
Reconcile Romans 7 with what you said, ego being his thorn versus concupiscence or covetousness.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Nice rewording but not true. The thorn was sent to keep him humble and not a reminder. Temptations are not sent to keep us humble but to make us fall.
The thorn, what was it and who tempts? Nice rewording? In what way? What was the thorn? And since God doesn't tempt, who was the tempter? Romans 7 explains the nature of the thorn in Paul's own words: "concupiscence" (KJV), or covetousness/ covetous desires (other translations). And the devil is the tempter, as always.
Mat 4:1-3
1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
That’s a reinterpretation, and not what the passage says.
"7 Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me."
Bob
Member
Thank you for your response.
Surely the thorn is a desire/urge to do something contrary to the law.
Suppose, for example, hearing someone preach a false gospel infuriated you, and immediately vengeful thoughts sprang to mind. Yet, because you know to take such vengeance is wrong, you refrain and resort solely to persuasion.
The sudden (unbidden) urge to take vengeance against liars and hypocrites would be a thorn. You might pray to God to remove that thorn, and He might reply, “It is right that you know vengeance is wrong, but letting it remain a thorn will give you compassion with others in dealing with their own thorns.”
Peace
So you say. What does the passage say? What do Romans 7 and 2 Cor 12 mean, or are they not linked as I've stated? And if not linked, and not talking about the same thing, the thorn, what do they mean?
Thank you as well.
Desire/urge is like the irritation of a thorn, symptomatic… yet is not the thorn “itself”. Like how a mirage seems to be water yet the closer a mirage is examined the more the truth of light is seen.
For so long as vengeance is wrong, infuriation persists. As vengeance is discordant, ignorance is seen, vengeance & infuriation subside, and compassion is unfettered and persuasion is discarded in its inherent fruitless-ness. One can not help another out of quicksand by getting in quicksand.
An urge is symptomatic and is not the thorn. The one who might or might not take (vengeance) is the thorn, is the lie, and is the hypocrisy.
Compassion needs a you like weather needs a weatherman.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Sorry but wrong. Romans 7 is Paul talking about his own human nature and not given an extra measure of temptation to keep him humble.
So quickly the entire point is overlooked via an assumption that there is right & wrong.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
And what is the entire point. I realize that He is going down rabbit trails, so I am answering the points he is throwing out to divert from the simple plain teaching of SCripture.
Similar threads
