What wonders do you think could fool the elect?

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n2thelight

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Hmmm.. guess the teaching of the 3 earth ages didn't get out. The elect stayed with our Father when satan and his band of rebel angels rose/fell. They proved their love and loyalty to Him.

If anyone knows of this, could you point me to scripture. In my head I can think of several instances where He says I knew you before you were formed, but the address(es) escape(s) me.

Once I was lost, but now I am found! GIVE GOD THE GLORY!

ps. No need to tear down what I believe, it's past my mind and in my heart. Right beside His HolySpirit.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Before Jeremiah was even concieved within his mothers womb, God is telling Jeremiah that He knew him, and before Jeremiah was born, God sanctified him, which is to set Jeremiah apart for God's mission. God ordained Jeremiah as a prophet, not only to Judah, by to the nations also. When we see the word "Nations" it is directed to the Gentile nations also. Jeremiah was a prophet to all nations.

In this final generation, this is amplified into the fact of the kings and queens that serve their people in the service of the living God. Think on that phrase, "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee." To understand this phrase, you have to understand the three earth ages, as it is taught in II Peter 3, that there was an earth age before this present one, that this earth is millions of years old. The manuscripts, even from this King James declare it, and Jeremiah will take us to that first earth age in the fourth chapter.

God foreknew Jeremiah, and knew that he was qualified to do the task that Jeremiah is about to be commissioned to do. Jeremiah had earned the right to fulfill that position, even in the first earth age.

And to back that up,we can go to, God hating Esau before he was even born

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Then when the twins, Jacob and Esau were still in their mother's womb, neither having had the chance of doing either good or evil, God called one of those unborn babies to service. This deals with the election according to the purpose of God in His Will. The reason was to accomplish the writings of these Scriptures. It wasn't an accident that Jacob was loved and Esau was hated, nor was it an accident that you saw the light and repented. God has His hand on all creation and all of His children. God intercedes in the lives of His children, and there are no accidents when it comes to the actions of God.

Romans 9:12 "It was said unto her, "The elder shall serve the younger."

This statement is not according to custom. In Genesis 25:23; "And the Lord said unto her, "Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other; and the elder shall serve the younger."

The younger was to serve the older, and many so called teachers tell how Jacob plotted to get the blessing, they just don't understand that it was God's order from before they were ever born that Jacob would be the superior.

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
 

n2thelight

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Hmmm.. guess the teaching of the 3 earth ages didn't get out. The elect stayed with our Father when satan and his band of rebel angels rose/fell. They proved their love and loyalty to Him.

And they coming back,as angels of light,which is the deception

II Corinthians 11:13 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ."

II Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

II Corinthians 11:15 "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

Paul is telling us that these ministers of deceit have disguised themselves also as the ministers of righteousness, when in fact they are setting you up to be taken by Satan, and not Jesus Christ. They present themselves as the apostles of Christ, only they never get around to teaching the entire Word of God. But they teach in the context that would prepare you for the first christ that comes, who is Satan. Paul is saying don't marvel at these false preachers that are deceiving you, because Satan himself will be cast out of heaven by Michael, and then he will be coming disguised as Jesus.

As is pointed out in Mark 13:5, 6, this Antichrist, which in the Greek reads "instead of Christ" is coming. And when they tell you that he is here or there don't you believe them.

Mark 13:5 "And Jesus answering them began to say, "Take heed lest any man deceive you:"

Mark 13:6 "For many shall come in My name, saying, 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive many. "

Paul has told us in I Corinthians 15:50-54 what we should never believe anyone that claims to be Christ while we are in our flesh body. The reason for that again is that we will not see Jesus Christ coming while we are in our flesh bodies, however we will see the false Christ, the "instead of Christ" who is Satan. Satan is coming with all his lies and supernatural powers and wonders. If you are expecting a supernatural show of the messiah, then Satan will give you everything you hoped for. When the true Christ returns at the second advent, all flesh, good and bad alike will be turned from their flesh bodies to their spiritual body, faster than you can wink your eye.

What was the first and most important warning that Christ gave us

Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time. These warnings or signs that Jesus is about to give us, are the seven seals that are given us in the Book of Revelation.

These are an exact overlay of the seven events, which are the seven seals that we should be watching for today.

 
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Taken

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Matt.24:24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

With all our technology, I often wonder what signs would this verse warn of. Then, reading up on 5g tech, I learned that it can be used to create holograms. Holograms you can touch. YIKES!!
Thousands of 5g satelites ready to be put in orbit. What ungodly uses they could be used for. Wonders in the sky?

Thought I would ask brothers/sisters in Christ what they think these wonders might be?
Thank you in advance... blessings to all.

I believe spirits; Holy or Evil have great spiritual power.

I also believe men, through technology, reveal wonders that may appear naturally unbelievable, and easily mistaken for a spiritual power.

In short, it is a condundrum and easy method to fool men, who rely so heavily on 'seeing is believing'.

What they wonder might be?

Any encouragement to follow a person to "a place" to "see / meet" Christ Jesus, that is not Scriptural.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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n2thelight

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As a man I really can't understand,the birth pangs,however I understand what it's meant .

When a woman is pregnant and her birth pangs get closer and closer together,she knows that child is about to be born,it's the same with the return of Christ,do you all have eye's to see these pangs?
 
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Copperhead

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God is calling out a people, His people, the "Elect-chosen, and predestined" to stand against the Antichrist [Satan] in this final generation.

It sounds good, but the scripture is pretty clear that the antichrist will make war with and overcome the saints.
 
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Acolyte

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@n2thelight these are my teachings also, thank you
@Copperhead most of the saints will live imprisoned or executed, the elect will testify before the (councils) a/c as the Holy Spirit speaks thru them.
 
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n2thelight

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most of the saints will live imprisoned or executed, the elect will testify before the a/c as the Holy Spirit speaks thru them.

@Acolyte

Just to add ,it won't be the AC,perse that does this it will be those from the below

John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

We have power over ALL our enemies

Luke 10:19 "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

Not doing a rapture ,however from the above ,not understanding why people scared of the trib,that's in Christ
 
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n2thelight

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It sounds good, but the scripture is pretty clear that the antichrist will make war with and overcome the saints.

The saints are the two witnesses,that's when he satan as the AC over steps his bounds

Psalms 105:15 "Saying, "Touch not Mine anointed, And do My prophets no harm."

We know from the past that many of God's prophets were murdered. The Anointed One Himself, Jesus the Christ was nailed to the cross. The anointed are God's elect from that earth age that was, that are in this earth age of flesh man to fulfill a duty for God. When Satan's children moved to take the life of Jesus Christ, they sealed the death of their father Satan. That time will come when the Word has been fulfilled.

Hebrews 2:14, 15 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

That was the purpose that Christ came to this earth in the form of flesh man, born of a virgin. He came to die on the cross, and fulfill the promises that He had given to our forefathers through His prophets. This is the same as it is today, for if you have eyes to see spiritually, and someone offends you, they will suffer for their deeds against you. They will pay for every act against you. If you are acting within Father's plan, they will suffer and pay for their acts against you. You might as well pray for them, for it is a fact that God will come down on them.

So what happens when he (satan)disobeys that command?

Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [abyss] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

The two witnesses' purpose for being on the earth at this time, was to be a testimony against Satan, the Antichrist. By doing this, they are also a witness to God's elect, of His Word. When this testimony is over, Satan the Antichrist will rise up and kill both of them.

People say when don't know when Christ returns,yes,that is true,however we should no the season.

As a matter of fact to go a little deeper,Christ returns 3 1/2 days after the two witnesses are killed

Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

Most Christians will not even be aware of these two witnesses, or the three and a half day period, until the end of it, for they have been taught that they are going to fly away, for that is what their "rapture doctrine" taught them. In fact most think heaven and eternity is on some far away star or planet, and not here on earth.


Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

This is the "rapture" those that followed Satan as the Antichrist are going to miss. The rising of the two saints. At this same instant Christ will be coming here to earth.

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Within the hour, the earthquake that is going to split the mount of Olives will take place. A way, or path will be made for Christ's children to make it back to Him.

Why would God kill 7000 men at this moment? Those are the angels of Satan will die at this time, all of them. They are the men that God will kill. Satan's time for his story telling is over, and all those fallen angels helping him will be destroyed.

The "remnant" that is of God's election will give glory to God because it is over. The tribulation, the testing, these flesh bodies, and this earth age of the flesh will be over. Friend, this is not something that is centuries into the future, but in a matter of a few years. We are living in this final generation.

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This is the seventh and final trumpet, from the time that the two witnesses stand to their feet, we are dealing in seconds, and minutes for it all to occur. The third woe comes with the seventh trumpet. All prophecy in the entire Bible dealing with the seventh, and last trumpet happens instantly at this time.
 
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Copperhead

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The saints are the two witnesses,that's when he satan as the AC over steps his bounds

Psalms 105:15 "Saying, "Touch not Mine anointed, And do My prophets no harm."

We know from the past that many of God's prophets were murdered. The Anointed One Himself, Jesus the Christ was nailed to the cross. The anointed are God's elect from that earth age that was, that are in this earth age of flesh man to fulfill a duty for God. When Satan's children moved to take the life of Jesus Christ, they sealed the death of their father Satan. That time will come when the Word has been fulfilled.

Hebrews 2:14, 15 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

That was the purpose that Christ came to this earth in the form of flesh man, born of a virgin. He came to die on the cross, and fulfill the promises that He had given to our forefathers through His prophets. This is the same as it is today, for if you have eyes to see spiritually, and someone offends you, they will suffer for their deeds against you. They will pay for every act against you. If you are acting within Father's plan, they will suffer and pay for their acts against you. You might as well pray for them, for it is a fact that God will come down on them.

So what happens when he (satan)disobeys that command?

Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [abyss] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

The two witnesses' purpose for being on the earth at this time, was to be a testimony against Satan, the Antichrist. By doing this, they are also a witness to God's elect, of His Word. When this testimony is over, Satan the Antichrist will rise up and kill both of them.

People say when don't know when Christ returns,yes,that is true,however we should no the season.

As a matter of fact to go a little deeper,Christ returns 3 1/2 days after the two witnesses are killed

Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

Most Christians will not even be aware of these two witnesses, or the three and a half day period, until the end of it, for they have been taught that they are going to fly away, for that is what their "rapture doctrine" taught them. In fact most think heaven and eternity is on some far away star or planet, and not here on earth.


Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

This is the "rapture" those that followed Satan as the Antichrist are going to miss. The rising of the two saints. At this same instant Christ will be coming here to earth.

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Within the hour, the earthquake that is going to split the mount of Olives will take place. A way, or path will be made for Christ's children to make it back to Him.

Why would God kill 7000 men at this moment? Those are the angels of Satan will die at this time, all of them. They are the men that God will kill. Satan's time for his story telling is over, and all those fallen angels helping him will be destroyed.

The "remnant" that is of God's election will give glory to God because it is over. The tribulation, the testing, these flesh bodies, and this earth age of the flesh will be over. Friend, this is not something that is centuries into the future, but in a matter of a few years. We are living in this final generation.

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This is the seventh and final trumpet, from the time that the two witnesses stand to their feet, we are dealing in seconds, and minutes for it all to occur. The third woe comes with the seventh trumpet. All prophecy in the entire Bible dealing with the seventh, and last trumpet happens instantly at this time.

I can’t speak for most Christians, but I am confident I will know the identity of the two witnesses since I will be observing from the bleachers.
 

n2thelight

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I can’t speak for most Christians, but I am confident I will know the identity of the two witnesses since I will be observing from the bleachers.

The part that most don't get,is that( GOD)Himself will blind most to the truth,the question one must ask is,why would He do that?
 
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Copperhead

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The part that most don't get,is that( GOD)Himself will blind most to the truth,the question one must ask is,why would He do that?

Then come at it a different way.... why did God harden Pharaoh's heart? God just takes advantage of what is already the reality. Pharaoh's heart was already against the Hebrew people. YHVH just took advantage of that to magnify the extent of His power and authority and deliver the Hebrew people out from under Pharaoh's grasp. There would be no doubt that YHVH delivered the Hebrew people.

Likewise, God only expounds on what a person already is. If they are already blinded and choose to remain so, He magnifies that blindness. Just like those that place their trust and faith in Him, He grows and magnifies that faith.

Simple, eh?
 
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n2thelight

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Then come at it a different way.... why did God harden Pharaoh's heart? God just takes advantage of what is already the reality. Pharaoh's heart was already against the Hebrew people. YHVH just took advantage of that to magnify the extent of His power and authority and deliver the Hebrew people out from under Pharaoh's grasp. There would be no doubt that YHVH delivered the Hebrew people.

Likewise, God only expounds on what a person already is. If they are already blinded and choose to remain so, He magnifies that blindness. Just like those that place their trust and faith in Him, He grows and magnifies that faith.

Simple, eh?

Not simple eh

Like I keep saying,only Christians can be deceived ,as the rest of the world already are..
Had a feeling Pharaoh's name would come up,as I admit I often struggled with that.

The reason for end time Christians being blinded is because they can't handle the truth,in other words our Father will not judge us in ignorance,that's when one needs to understand the meaning of the millennium
 
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Copperhead

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Not simple eh

Like I keep saying,only Christians can be deceived ,as the rest of the world already are..
Had a feeling Pharaoh's name would come up,as I admit I often struggled with that.

The reason for end time Christians being blinded is because they can't handle the truth,in other words our Father will not judge us in ignorance,that's when one needs to understand the meaning of the millennium

I will agree with that statement. But in all fairness, most "Christians" do not grow beyond the basic "I accept Jesus". Most do not even study or even have the desire to do so. As whether they are indeed Christians or not, that is outside my pay grade to judge. I am only allowed to be a fruit inspector. Only YHVH can judge the heart. But I think a lot of folks, including me, will be shocked to see who didn't make the cut and who actually did.

And regarding the Millennial kingdom, I think many make the mistake of equating it with Heaven. Sure Yeshua is ruling and nature has been restored to what it was intended to be, but there ia lot more going on that many just don't want to see, and what is going on behind the scenes is enough to set the the stage for one more final rebellion against the Lord at the end of the millennial kingdom when Satan is released. Death and sin are still present. Yeshua will rule with a rod of iron, which implies that He will have to put down the heavy hand on folks when they get out of line. The kingdom parables of Matthew 13 give us a lot of insight into the this.
 

Davy

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Haven't been able to get in, kept getting an error. Thought the sight was down, but doesn't look like it. Hmm

While most of these wonders are supernatural, mankind likes to see to believe. The words "lying wonders" make me think things like raising the dead could be accomplished with touchable holograms.

I wouldn't think believers would be taken by something they see broadcast.. scifi movies show us they can produce visual lies. But something they could see and touch. Just a thought.

Thanks all. Blessings

That interpretation of 'lying wonders' (from 2 Thess.2) is still basing it on the future coming Antichrist being some flesh born man that works fake miracles. We already have enough of those traveling tent preachers doing that as a business.

The real meaning by Apostle Paul of 'lying wonders' still means supernatural wonders, but using them to claim the identity of our Lord Jesus Christ, because in Matthew 24:23-26 our Lord Jesus showed us those wonders would almost deceive His very elect (which cannot happen because they are sealed with God's seal).

We also already have the charismatic wonders of people shaking uncontrollably, writhing in the floor making animal noises, drunk talking, etc., with those manifestations having happened among other religions of the east also, so it can't be those lying wonders either...

 
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Davy

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Like Andrew Storm says in his video, all those different ministries are merely one big movement of claimed anointing that really is coming from eastern mysticism.

It's possible those ministries joining because of those manifestations is how the coming Antichrist will pull in the future Christian Church as a whole under his control on earth. So we might expect manifestations way beyond all that by the coming Antichrist.
 
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Copperhead

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Well, there has been apostasy and lying wonders going on since before the ink was dry on the NT. The church couldn't limp out of the 1st century before it had stumbled all over itself and fell flat on its face. Matter of fact, before Paul was killed. One of Paul's earliest letters was having to address a forged letter going around doctrinally upsetting the Thessalonians. And when one looks at the history of the church over the centuries, it is any wonder that there is a true remnant still around.

I am not convinced that apostasy is the paramount sign of the end getting close. While it can be disconcerting and standing against it is one of our tasks, if one looks at the bigger picture, there is nothing new going on nor is it any greater than in history past. The Corinthians were into incest, temple prostitution, and a ton of other problems that Paul had to deal with. What is going on today in the church doesn't really top that.

The main thing is to defend the plain, simple Gospel of Yeshua that reconciliation to God is available to all those who place their trust in Yeshua.
 
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Davy

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Well, there has been apostasy and lying wonders going on since before the ink was dry on the NT. The church couldn't limp out of the 1st century before it had stumbled all over itself and fell flat on its face. Matter of fact, before Paul was killed. One of Paul's earliest letters was having to address a forged letter going around doctrinally upsetting the Thessalonians. And when one looks at the history of the church over the centuries, it is any wonder that there is a true remnant still around.

Forged letters isn't the same thing as the great signs, wonders, and miracles which will deceive the whole world that the coming pseudo-Christ at the end is prophesied to do. God's Word makes a distinct difference between the idea of false prophets since Jesus' 1st coming and the working of the future Antichrist-false Messiah at the end just prior to Christ's return.


I am not convinced that apostasy is the paramount sign of the end getting close. While it can be disconcerting and standing against it is one of our tasks, if one looks at the bigger picture, there is nothing new going on nor is it any greater than in history past. The Corinthians were into incest, temple prostitution, and a ton of other problems that Paul had to deal with. What is going on today in the church doesn't really top that.

The main thing is to defend the plain, simple Gospel of Yeshua that reconciliation to God is available to all those who place their trust in Yeshua.

The 2 Thess.2 apostasy event hasn't even begun yet today, and won't until that false one shows up in Jerusalem to play God working those signs and lying wonders to deceive with. His doing that is what causes... the great falling away Paul warned of.

Rev.13 says the "another beast" will rain fire down from heaven upon the earth in the sight of men. It's obvious the signs our Lord Jesus and His Apostles were speaking of for the end of this world have nothing to do with your false assumptions that these signs for the end are just old hat.
 

Copperhead

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The 2 Thess.2 apostasy event hasn't even begun yet today, and won't until that false one shows up in Jerusalem to play God working those signs and lying wonders to deceive with. His doing that is what causes... the great falling away Paul warned of.

Well, no. Paul did warn of the "great falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

Virtually every translation of the NT prior to the KJV said a departure would occur including the Latin Vulgate which said it is a spatial or distance departure. None of them said or implied a doctrinal departure or "falling away".

The context of 2 Thessalonians 2 is in verse one.....

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

The context of 2 Thes 2 is not our departure from Him or apostasy or falling away. Dr. Kenneth Wuest, head of NT Greek for Moody Bible Institute from 1929 to 1961 wrote extensively that apostasia in 2 Thes 2:3 has in mind a physical departure. Dr. Andy Woods, doctorate of Law and Doctorate of Theology, and president of Chafer Theological Seminary concurs whole heartedly. Dr. Ken Johnson, ThD, expert on early church documents, also concurs.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 is the pre-trib removal of the righteous. According to Dr. Woods.... "game, set, match".

So you would be correct. The falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2 has not occurred, and never will, because falling away is not what is being conveyed by that passage. The Geneva Bible, Beza Bible, Tyndale Bible, Coverdale Bible, Latin Vulgate, etc all concur that it is a physical or spatial departure not a spiritual or doctrinal departure.

But in all fairness, the falling away or apostasy has been going on since Genesis 3.
 

Davy

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Well, no. Paul did warn of the "great falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

Virtually every translation of the NT prior to the KJV said a departure would occur including the Latin Vulgate which said it is a spatial or distance departure. None of them said or implied a doctrinal departure or "falling away".

The context of 2 Thessalonians 2 is in verse one.....

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

The context of 2 Thes 2 is not our departure from Him or apostasy or falling away. Dr. Kenneth Wuest, head of NT Greek for Moody Bible Institute from 1929 to 1961 wrote extensively that apostasia in 2 Thes 2:3 has in mind a physical departure. Dr. Andy Woods, doctorate of Law and Doctorate of Theology, and president of Chafer Theological Seminary concurs whole heartedly. Dr. Ken Johnson, ThD, expert on early church documents, also concurs.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 is the pre-trib removal of the righteous. According to Dr. Woods.... "game, set, match".

So you would be correct. The falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2 has not occurred, and never will, because falling away is not what is being conveyed by that passage. The Geneva Bible, Beza Bible, Tyndale Bible, Coverdale Bible, Latin Vulgate, etc all concur that it is a physical or spatial departure not a spiritual or doctrinal departure.

But in all fairness, the falling away or apostasy has been going on since Genesis 3.

That isn't the falling away meaning at all... that Apostle Paul was warning of. Instead, you are simply regurgitating a doctrine of men dreamed up as a cover-all for their pet theories that the pope is Antichrist. None of their theories even fits the actual context... of the 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter, nor its direct connection to the false one Jesus warned of in His Olivet discourse, nor the false one He later warned of through Apostle John in Rev.13 that is to come doing those great signs and lying wonders! Instead, deceived folks like you on those doctrines of men don't have a clue of what the actual context from Paul is there in 2 Thess.2.