What's in a name?

[shnarkle]

He's known as "Lucifer" prior to sin being found within his heart; "The Adversary", "Azazel", "The Accuser", "the devil" but what other names could we come up with that fit his description?

When Jesus is tempted of the devil these temptations are all too close to the exact same things an egomaniac would conceive. So while we could ascribe this title to satan as well, the fact is that it's already taken by people with over active egos.

Furthermore, who doesn't have an ego? Who isn't preoccupied with themselves? Jesus was able to conquer these temptations, and yet why do we find it so difficult to even address the temptations of our own paltry egos? We write it off as insignificant, and something that warrants no concern whatsoever.

There's an old saying that the greatest deception the devil ever pulled was the lie that he doesn't exist. The claim has its allure, but I think there is something far more sinister lurking in the heart of the father of all lies. The arch fiend of the universe dare not even utter it for to give it space is to reveal the truth which he cannot have.

Jesus said, "deny yourself", but we indulge it, and more importantly; we indulge in it. So what does this mean? What did Jesus mean by this statement? Did he mean that we should deny the things that we want or desire? Hardly. This only indulges the self in a new way. Jesus points out that we are to deny the self itself. For when the self is gone, there is no barrier to the truth; no barrier to life; no barrier to reality. In a nutshell no unnecessary mediator. The only mediator necessary is Christ. Christ is reality itself. Only Christ is real. He is manifest reality. From this perspective it becomes apparent that the devil has already jumped into the fire. He only lives on in the egos of those who believe in themselves rather than Christ.

I submit for your consideration what most will never deny; yourself.

 

[bbyrd009]

pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name B)

imo the passages about scapegoats, as well as "Who told you that you were naked?" also point to this concept.

 

[mjrhealth]

Nice post. Now sit down and try to imagine yourself loosing you identity, because as a Christian to become Christ Like , that is the price we pay, more of Him less of us, till all they see is Jesus. It is a terrifying thing to loose your identity there are movies made about it.

 

[shnarkle]

pleased to meet you; hope you guessed my name B)

imo the passages about scapegoats, as well as "Who told you that you were naked?" also point to this concept.

Yep. We tell ourselves all sorts of nonsense, and then we believe it. If the fall is really something this simple, just think what would happen if we were to simply deny ourselves of the burden of these pointless thoughts and ideas.

 

[shnarkle]

Nice post. Now sit down and try to imagine yourself loosing you identity, because as a Christian to become Christ Like , that is the price we pay, more of Him less of us, till all they see is Jesus. It is a terrifying thing to loose your identity there are movies made about it.

It is a terrifying thing for the self to lose its identity. It isn't really something that one needs to imagine. One need only become aware that thoughts, emotions, and feelings are not what make up who one is. When one separates themselves from who they are, they become aware that they are not themselves. They are not the narrative that they have created for themselves; they are not their biography.

We create markers for ourselves so that we and others can identify us, but identification is not identity.

When people create an identity for themselves, and they become completely identified with that identity, they are essentially dead. If something happens to dislodge this identity that has been created the results are usually disastrous. Mental institutions are full of people who have become completely disassociated from reality. They're psyches have become fragmented like the demoniac wandering the graveyards of Jesus' day.

Seeing "yourself" as the proverbial hole in the doughnut is where one might be able to let God into the picture, but I think it only really takes the ability to become aware that you are not your thoughts, emotions, feelings. Disassociating from them removes their power over who you really are.

 

[bbyrd009]

recognizing myself as "the Observer" was not really hard for me, but then i was prevented from establishing a strong ego by dint of my upbringing. So in that sense i guess i suffered early, to make that possible. I guess some people have a very hard/impossible time imagining themselves dissociated from their ego?

Codependency is also very ego-bonding, and my whole family is very codependent--as many in the developed world are. As most people have no, or only a very poor conception of codependency, it might serve one who has difficulty becoming the Observer to explore this concept.

 

[bbyrd009]

...However with the outer suburb of fifty cubits round about the overall dimension of the square, including the common or profane area, is six hundred cubits by six hundred cubits square. Therefore the temple in which we serve is indeed the temple of a man and the same is the Body of Messiah Yeshua. Thus the overall basic measurements of the Ezekiel Temple are Six hundred, Sixty, and Six... Apokalypse 13:18
18 Here is wisdom: Let him with understanding pebble-count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man, and his number is six hundred sixty and six.

https://sites.google.com/site/elaiasindex/ezekiel-temple

 

[shnarkle]

[background=#fffdf8] [/background]

https://sites.google.com/site/elaiasindex/ezekiel-temple

Those with understanding see that it is the mark of man. It is the sinful fallen man himself. Humanity separated from God not seeing Christ within; not seeing the image of God in Christ is the beast.

 

[bbyrd009]

and even then, where there should only be one way to interpret that, there are many. As mjr says, it is terrifying to be raised up to an age, convinced that good grades and then hard work will make you a "success," and then to contemplate abandoning all that, just dropping your nets and following Christ. Even the Apostles went back to fishing, briefly, i guess. I'll have to go reread that part now

 

[shnarkle]

and even then, where there should only be one way to interpret that, there are many.

I don't necessarily think that there is only one way to interpret scripture, especially when it comes to application. Jesus and Paul are excellent examples of how one may apply scripture, and each application interprets scripture differently. This is not to say that scripture can't be interpreted incorrectly. This is where the "should" come into play.

As mjr says, it is terrifying to be raised up to an age, convinced that good grades and then hard work will make you a "success,"

And then finding this success to be less than satisfactory. I'll never forget reading the newspaper about thirty years ago and finding two articles less than a week apart dealing with suicide. One was an entrepreneur who had built an incredibly successful product, and made millions before he was 25. The other was also quite young, and had worked his way to the top of a fortune 500 company. They had both followed the American dream. They had both set goals and attained them quite rapidly. Their successes were incredible and yet both found their too easily gained success disappointing to say the least.

and then to contemplate abandoning all that, just dropping your nets and following Christ. Even the Apostles went back to fishing, briefly, i guess. I'll have to go reread that part now

If one really enjoys fishing, then this would be a disturbing proposition. The texts indicate that they dropped their nets where they stood and followed him. This isn't describing a long drawn out thought process. This is describing the proverbial "no-brainer". No doubt fearful thoughts would necessarily appear, but deep within all of us is that tug pulling us to break free of bondage from the drudgery and toil of this material existence. When we step out of it, it isn't because of some thought process. It's because we see the path and walk on it.

My suspicion is that when they returned to fishing they were changed men, and they no longer set out to catch fish, but to simply fish well, regardless of the size of the catch. To fish well is to have one's nets bursting with life.