When Did Jesus Go to Egypt?

[St. SteVen]

Is there a contradiction in the story of Jesus as a child?
One story says they fled to Egypt after the Magi left. Another story says they took Jesus
to the Temple in Jerusalem to be circumcised on the eighth day. ???

Matthew 2:7-15 NIV
Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them
the exact time the star had appeared.
8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child.
As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”
9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way,
and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them
until it stopped over the place where the child was.
10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.
11 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod,
they returned to their country by another route.
13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream.
“Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt.
Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”
14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt,
15 where he stayed until the death of Herod.
And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet:
“Out of Egypt I called my son.”[a]

Luke 2:21-23 NIV
On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child,
he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived.
22 When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses,
Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord,
“Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”[a]),

[

 

[Aunty Jane]

Is there a contradiction in the story of Jesus as a child?

No.

One story says they fled to Egypt after the Magi left. Another story says they took Jesus
to the Temple in Jerusalem to be circumcised on the eighth day. ???

When did the magi visit Jesus? They were not at the stable as those nativity scenes depict…..according to the time when the magi saw the star and the place where the child was to be born Herod calculated that the child by that time was about 2 years old….so he had all the male infants 2 years of age and under, killed.
Read it again….with that in mind. Jesus was a “young child” living in a “house” by the time the magi arrived, (Matt 2:9-11)….It was after the magi left that God told Joseph to flee to Egypt.

Matthew 2:7-15 NIV
Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them
the exact time the star had appeared.
8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child.
As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”
9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way,
and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them
until it stopped over the place where the child was.
10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.
11 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod,
they returned to their country by another route.
13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream.
“Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt.
Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”
14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt,
15 where he stayed until the death of Herod.
And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet:
“Out of Egypt I called my son.”

So the prophesy was fulfilled….does it argue with the scripture below? Nope.

Luke 2:21-23 NIV
On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child,
he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived.
22 When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses,
Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord,
“Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”[a]),

On the 8th day, Mary and Joseph took their newborn son to the Temple to have him circumcised. The magi’s visit was a long way off. This is emphasized by the fact that the offering they made at the Temple was that of the poor…two turtle doves or two pigeons……if the magi had given them expensive gifts, they would have offered more. There was gold after all.

There are no contradictions in the Bible, if you read it with understanding, rather than counting on pagan myths to provide your details…..the truth is there.

 

[NotTheRock]

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child,
he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived.
22 When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses,
Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord

I believe it's possible that the events described in verse 22 came some time later after what was described in verse 21.

 

[NotTheRock]

There are no contradictions in the Bible...

There are many contradictions in numerous English translations, particularly the KJV, but that's another thread.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello,

Many years ago, I put together a possible chronology of the early days of Christ's life up and until Joseph, Mary and Jesus returned from the visit to the temple in Jerusalem. I have attached a PDF file for anyone who wants to download this file and read it.

I would suggest that Joseph took Mary and Jesus down towards Egypt within the first week or so of His early life.

Shalom

 

[St. SteVen]

This is a good discussion.
Let's create a timeline for the order of events.

@Jay Ross has provided a complete chronology based on his understanding that
Joseph took Mary and Jesus down towards Egypt within the first week or so of His early life.

@Aunty Jane has a good observation in the events not aligning with the nativity scenes.
Although I would say, the nativity scenes are a good way to combine many of the elements of the story in a way that a child could understand.

@NotTheRock has a good point in that the events described in verse 22 (Luke chapter 2) came some time later after what was described in verse 21.

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[Wick Stick]

Is there a contradiction in the story of Jesus as a child?
One story says they fled to Egypt after the Magi left. Another story says they took Jesus
to the Temple in Jerusalem to be circumcised on the eighth day. ???

Matthew 2:7-15 NIV
Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them
the exact time the star had appeared.
8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child.
As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”
9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way,
and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them
until it stopped over the place where the child was.
10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.
11 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod,
they returned to their country by another route.
13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream.
“Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt.
Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”
14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt,
15 where he stayed until the death of Herod.
And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet:
“Out of Egypt I called my son.”[a]

Luke 2:21-23 NIV
On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child,
he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived.
22 When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses,
Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord,
“Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”[a]),

[

There are some contradictions in the Bible, but I don't see one here. The Bible doesn't put a time-frame on the Magi's visit that's within the first 8 days of Jesus' life.

 

[St. SteVen]

There are some contradictions in the Bible, but I don't see one here. The Bible doesn't put a time-frame on the Magi's visit that's within the first 8 days of Jesus' life.

Perhaps the blame lies with the church who gave us a nativity scene to explain the order of events.
The Magi (three wise men?) and shepherds are there while Jesus is in the stable manger.

[

 

[David Lamb]

Is there a contradiction in the story of Jesus as a child?
One story says they fled to Egypt after the Magi left. Another story says they took Jesus
to the Temple in Jerusalem to be circumcised on the eighth day. ???

Matthew 2:7-15 NIV
Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them
the exact time the star had appeared.
8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child.
As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”
9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way,
and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them
until it stopped over the place where the child was.
10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.
11 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod,
they returned to their country by another route.
13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream.
“Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt.
Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”
14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt,
15 where he stayed until the death of Herod.
And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet:
“Out of Egypt I called my son.”[a]

Luke 2:21-23 NIV
On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child,
he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he was conceived.
22 When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses,
Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord,
“Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”[a]),

[

No contradiction at all. Luke is talking about Jesus at the age of 8 days. In the Matthew passage concerning the wise men's visit, Jesus was anything up to 2 years old. That's why Herod commanded all the boys 2 years old and under in Bethlehem and the surrounding district to be killed.

 

[David Lamb]

Perhaps the blame lies with the church who gave us a nativity scene to explain the order of events.
The Magi (three wise men?) and shepherds are there while Jesus is in the stable manger.

[

The wise men being there at the same time as the shepherds is just not biblical. Nor is the notion of 3 wise men. Yes, they brought three gifts, but two, six, twenty or a hundred wise men could bring three gifts. There are many "traditions" about Christ's nativity which are just not in the bible, for example, Mary riding a donkey, the inn being like a modern hotel, with an innkeeper saying to Mary and Joseph, "Sorry, no room," the manger being a cosy crib (a manger was an animal feeding trough!)

 

[Aunty Jane]

The wise men being there at the same time as the shepherds is just not biblical. Nor is the notion of 3 wise men. Yes, they brought three gifts, but two, six, twenty or a hundred wise men could bring three gifts. There are many "traditions" about Christ's nativity which are just not in the bible, for example, Mary riding a donkey, the inn being like a modern hotel, with an innkeeper saying to Mary and Joseph, "Sorry, no room," the manger being a cosy crib (a manger was an animal feeding trough!)

Matthew’s account is the only one that mentions the magi…..and they were not at the stable, nor does it say there were three of them.
The star that led these pagan astrologers to Jerusalem, was not from God because it led the magi to Herod, not to Jesus. If it was God who led them there, then God is to blame for the deaths of all those infants. Only after Herod was alerted and began to plot the murder of this future ”king of the Jews”, did the star move to lead them directly to the “house” where he was now living with his parents. It was from here that Joseph took his son to Egypt, as the angel directed him, to escape Herod’s men.

Luke’s more detailed account doesn’t mention them at all, but concentrates on other, more spiritual aspects.
Even going into detail about the birth of John B, who was the son of Mary’s relative. His story also has many interesting aspects.

Luke concludes his account with the words…
”So when they had carried out all the things according to the Law of the Lord, they went back into Galʹi·lee to their own city, Nazʹa·reth. And the young child continued growing and getting strong, being filled with wisdom, and God’s favor continued upon him.” (Luke 2:39-40)

The next mention of Jesus is when he is 12 years old.

 

[Jay Ross]

No contradiction at all. Luke is talking about Jesus at the age of 8 days. In the Matthew passage concerning the wise men's visit, Jesus was anything up to 2 years old. That's why Herod commanded all the boys 2 years old and under in Bethlehem and the surrounding district to be killed.

No, we only know that Herod had any child under the age of two years old killed. This information does not confirm that Jesus was much old and closer to being two years old.

It is my understanding that the law required a period of forty-one day from the birth of a son before Mary could enter the sanctuary of the Temple to bring a sacrifice up to the Temple. Therefore, forty-one days is the minimum time that passed between when Jesus was born and when he and Mary were taken up to the Temple to be presented to the Lord as a first fruits of the womb.

If this is the case, then and if the wise men came much later as you are suggesting, then Joseph, Mary and Jesus would have gone up to the Temple from Bethlehem as was required by the law, but Luke 2:39: - 39 And when they had performed everything according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city, Nazareth.

Now on their return back from Egypt, we are told this: - Matt 2:19-23: - 19 But when Herod died, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, 20 "Rise, take the child and his mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the child's life are dead." 21 And he rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus reigned over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there and being warned in a dream he withdrew to the district of Galilee. 23 And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene."

It is my understanding that the journey to Egypt from Bethlehem was around a five-day journey and this journey began a day or two before Herod realised that the wise men were not returning to see him. Joseph took Mary and Jesus to the city of Nazareth probably no more than twenty days after they had left Bethlehem. It is also my understanding that the journey from Nazareth to Jerusalem was around three days.

There is enough evidence in the gospels to show that the wise men came within a day or two of Jesus' birth.

Shalom

 

[Aunty Jane]

There is enough evidence in the gospels to show that the wise men came within a day or two of Jesus' birth.

If that was true, then Joseph and Mary played false to the Holy Spirit by withholding what rightfully belonged to God as an offering. The magi brought “gold, frankincense and myrrh”…..so if they presented Jesus with these gifts before they took him to the Temple for circumcision, then their offering was an offense to their God. Can you see them doing that?

 

[Jay Ross]

If that was true, then Joseph and Mary played false to the Holy Spirit by withholding what rightfully belonged to God as an offering. The magi brought “gold, frankincense and myrrh”…..so if they presented Jesus with these gifts before they took him to the Temple for circumcision, then their offering was an offense to their God. Can you see them doing that?

Where is the evidence that Jesus had to be taken to the temple to be circumcised found in the scriptures?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Where is the evidence that Jesus had to be taken to the temple to be circumcised found in the scriptures?

Sorry, you are correct….the male child is to be circumcised on the eighth day and the mother is to remain “unclean” for 33 days….as per Lev 12:2-4…ESV…

”Speak to the people of Israel, saying, If a woman conceives and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days. As at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Then she shall continue for thirty-three days in the blood of her purifying. She shall not touch anything holy, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying are completed.”

She is barred from the Temple during her purification period.
But even so, if you are correct about when the magi visited, they still would have had enough to make a better offering at the Temple. The gifts they received were expensive, not something I imagine they would have squandered on unimportant things. They were living in a “house” by the time the magi arrived.

 

[David Lamb]

Matthew’s account is the only one that mentions the magi…..and they were not at the stable, nor does it say there were three of them.
The star that led these pagan astrologers to Jerusalem, was not from God because it led the magi to Herod, not to Jesus. If it was God who led them there, then God is to blame for the deaths of all those infants.

I agree with most of your post, but not with the star leading them to Jerusalem. Matthew says that after seeing Herod, the star which they had seen in the East (not which they had followed from the East) went before them.

 

[Jay Ross]

They were living in a “house” by the time the magi arrived.

No, Aunty Jane, you do not understand.

I agree with most of your post, but not with the star leading them to Jerusalem. Matthew says that after seeing Herod, the star which they had seen in the East (not which they had followed from the East) went before them.

No, David lamb, you do not understand.

This is the Matthew account: -

Matthew 2:1-12: - 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, 2 "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him." 3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; 4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:​

​

6`And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,​

are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;​

for from you shall come a ruler​

who will govern my people, Israel.'"​

​

7 Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared; [1] 8 and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, "Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him." 9 When they had heard the king, they went their way; and lo, the star, which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with immense joy; 11 and going into the house[2] they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12 And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.​

I Hope that this helps you.

Shalom

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[1] The possibility is that the star appeared when Mary became pregnant with Jesus which would have given the Wise Men time to travel a considerable distance to worship Jesus in Bethlehem.

[2] The Greek word used here “oi)ki/an” is from the Greek Root word: ––
NT:3614: – oi)ki/a oikia (oy-kee'-ah); from NT:3624; properly, residence (abstractly), but usually (concretely) an abode (literally or figuratively); by implication a family (especially domestics): KJV - home, house (-hold).
NT:3624: – oi@ko$ oikos (oy'-kos); of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication a family (more or less related, literal or figuratively): KJV - home, house (-hold), temple.
The understanding that the Wise Men entered the dwelling place of Joseph, Mary and Jesus in Bethlehem, is probably closest to the understanding that we should have. Even though they may still have been residing in the stable it still was their home/dwelling place at that time.

 

[St. SteVen]

It seems that Mary and Joseph were living in Nazareth when they went to
the city of David (Bethlehem) for the census, which is where Joseph was from.

They went to Jerusalem to present Jesus at the Temple.

Perhaps they returned to Nazareth before the wise men found them.
Which would mean that the star led then to the Christ child, not to Bethlehem. ???

After the wise men (Magi/magicians) found them Joseph, Mary and Jesus fled to Egypt.
Herod murdered the children in Bethlehem, thinking that is where the new born king was?
After Herod died they returned to Nazareth, Jesus' hometown.

Does that work? I seem to be missing something. ???

[