When exactly do you become a Christian?

[Aunty Jane]

I've met Christians who will insist they're still sinners needing forgiveness.
Sad.

Acknowledging that the sin in us is still there, means that we can identify its practice and refuse to engage in it. It doesn’t mean the sin nature disappears, but we have it under our control. To “practice” sin is a choice. We already know what is right and what is wrong, so we have no excuse.

The point of the scripture as I see it is to let us know,now that we are conscious of the Spirit and his communication, we know not to wilfully sin.

Yes....only God’s spirit can lead a person to Christ.

In context that passage in 1 John 4-10 states....

“4  Everyone who practices sin is also practicing lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5  You know, too, that he was made manifest to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him. 6  Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one who practices sin has either seen him or come to know him. 7  Little children, let no one mislead you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as that one is righteous. 8  The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up* the works of the Devil.

9  Everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin, for His seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, for he has been born from God. 10  The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother.”

Like it or not, it is by invitation only...and there is criteria.

John 6:44, 65...Jesus said....
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; . . . . .“For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” (NASB)

There is the filter.....God is choosing us as much as we think we are choosing him. There are “wheat” and “weeds” in the world and it is only the “wheat” who are granted life. These are the ones who do not “PRACTICE sin”.....not because the sin of the flesh is somehow eliminated, but because it is a conscious choice not to offend the God we love and worship.
The “weeds” are still excusing their sin and will perish.
Which one are we?

It is obvious by Jesus words in Matt 7:13-14; 21-23 that the majority have been misled into believing that they are “wheat” when in actual fact they are found to be “weeds” making pathetic excuses for their unchristian conduct.

This is contrary to the anti-Christ rhetoric enemies of the cross use in claiming we can wilfully sin and be OK.

Sin is never OK, but sometimes in our imperfection we make wrong choices and suffer the consequences...but like the prodigal son, we can express regret over our actions, and seek forgiveness on the basis of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The Father will take us back into his family again and the sin is washed away.

We make mistakes but we know that.

That’s it! Admit your mistake, express sincere regret over it, and vow never to do that again.

 

[walter]

This has nothing to do with the topic on this thread, but I feel it is a interesting reason to believe in God.

Cumulus clouds can carry up to one million pounds of moisture and the clouds move around the earth, and then release the moisture as rain, the earths gravity pulls the rain drops to the earths surface, it all starts with evaporation of water that goes upward and collects and forms clouds. And the earth has many systems for plants, trees, animals and humans to survive.

What if just one system was missing? 1. Evaporation. 2. Cloud density: The ability for clouds to carry a million pounds of moisture when the earths gravity pulls down something as light as rain drops, clouds float is due to a cloud's low density and the buoyancy from the surrounding air. 3. Wind to move the clouds around the earth. 4. Condensation. 5. What if the clouds would keep going upwards and drift into space? 6. The earth's gravity. 7. capillary action were water moves upward through the roots all the way up to the highest leaf of the tallest tree. 8. Precipitation. 9. The atmosphere. 10. The magnetic field around the earth. 11. The ozone layer. 12. the distance between the earth and the sun is good for life on earth. 13. Earth rotation: Earth's spin causes the day and night cycles, which helps plants, trees and phytoplankton to survive.
14. Photosynthesis. 15. The sun's energy.

*If any system was missing, all life would die.
*Yes, Earth's distance from the sun, within the habitable zone is critical for life because it provides the right temperature range for liquid water, which is essential for most known life forms.
*All living cells need systems or they will die, a membrane, to take in nutrients, to eliminate waste, RNA, DNA.

This is one reason I believe in God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Uhh, because their sinful natured bodies have a life force, just like I had before my spirit was BORN AGAIN. Do I still sin? HELL YES!!! Not cussing, simply a fact. So how can I, AND YOU, still sin if we have a 'new spirit' from God dwelling IN our bodies?.

You're not responding to my question.

YOU said that the SPIRIT is a life force.
A life force is what makes you be ALIVE......

I asked:
IF the SPIRIT is a LIFE FORCE....
then how come even UNBELIEVERS have this life force??

And I didn't mention anything about sin or sinning.

Being born a perfect lamb did not fulfill the inspection of the priests to cut its throat on the feast of Passover. I quoted One scripture giving your view one black eye. Your second rebuttaled opinion still pales without one scripture to support your opinion. I'll give you 3 scriptures, for my opinion.

HEB 2:10 For it was fitting that he/GOD, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer/JESUS of their salvation perfect through suffering.

ROM 8:3 .....God sending his own Son in the likeness/homoioma of sinful flesh, .....:

Now I'll give another scripture with the same greek word and context.

PHI 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness/homoioma of men:

I believe this "form" that Jesus had, means a sinful flesh/body just like us. That doesn't mean "likeness" means he looked exactly like me in the mirror.

Now produce ONE scripture to support your opinion. Or don't answer at all, and just accept a new truth in place of an old lie.

I'm not producing any scripture for you because I'm not sure you even understand Christian Theology.

I stated that Jesus had to be a perfect human man AND God in order for His sacrifice to atone for the sins of all of mankind from the beginning until the end of time.

If you don't agree with this...
you are outside of mainline Christianity and I don't discuss with non-Christians.

That foundation was changed with the Church of ROME. The foundation of the NT APOSTOLIC church was JESUS, and the foundation of the church of Rome was PETER. ROMAN influence reigned for 1500 years. I gu

I don't know what you're talking about and I'd venture to guess that you know nothing about church history from your rather silly remarks.
I have no idea what the CHURCH OF ROME is and have no interest in knowing any church history from YOU.

Are you a ROMAN CATHOLIC? If not, then what denomination do you best fit in?

I'm not Catholic and I'm not sure what the Roman Rite is and you certainly do not.

This is my denomination Hillsage:
CHRISTIAN

And if your 'are' or you 'aren't' a RC, briefly tell me what the doctrine of 'the Immaculate conception' is.

You'll have to find out from someone else.
Sorry.
I'm not going back to find out why you even brought this up....

 

[GodsGrace]

You decide, wouldn't all the scriptures be important?

Use any Bible translation you like.

Believe
John 3:16
John 10:27-28
Colossians 1:22-23a
Acts 16:30, 31
1 John 2:2


Knowledge or Know
John 17:3
1 John 5:20
2 Timothy 3:15
1 Timothy 2:3, 4.
Psalm 79:6


Repent
Acts 3:19
Acts 26:20.
Acts 2:38
Matthew 3:2
Matthew 4:17


Get baptized
Matthew 28:19
Acts 2: 38, 40, 41
Acts 8:36-38
1 Peter 3:21
Mark 16:16
Acts 10:47-48


Obey Jesus and God's instructions in the Bible
Hebrews 5:9
Matthew 28:20
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
John 3:36
John 14:15
Luke 8:21
Matthew 7:24
Romans 2:8
Acts 5:29
1 John 5:3
Matthew 19:17
James 1:22


Endure to the end
Mark 13:13
Hebrews 10:36
1 Corinthians 9:27
James 5:11
Romans 8:13
James 1:2-4

Hi Walter....

OK
But those are the scriptues that are used to support that God must be obeyed and if He's not we will forfeit our salvation.

But now we should go look for all the verses that are used to SUPPORT OSAS....
And there ARE some that sound as if OSAS might be right.


So now what?
Do you know of a solution??

(I think the solution is what we were discussing...
can't really remember!)

 

[GodsGrace]

This has nothing to do with the topic on this thread, but I feel it is a interesting reason to believe in God.

Cumulus clouds can carry up to one million pounds of moisture and the clouds move around the earth, and then release the moisture as rain, the earths gravity pulls the rain drops to the earths surface, it all starts with evaporation of water that goes upward and collects and forms clouds. And the earth has many systems for plants, trees, animals and humans to survive.

What if just one system was missing? 1. Evaporation. 2. Cloud density: The ability for clouds to carry a million pounds of moisture when the earths gravity pulls down something as light as rain drops, clouds float is due to a cloud's low density and the buoyancy from the surrounding air. 3. Wind to move the clouds around the earth. 4. Condensation. 5. What if the clouds would keep going upwards and drift into space? 6. The earth's gravity. 7. capillary action were water moves upward through the roots all the way up to the highest leaf of the tallest tree. 8. Precipitation. 9. The atmosphere. 10. The magnetic field around the earth. 11. The ozone layer. 12. the distance between the earth and the sun is good for life on earth. 13. Earth rotation: Earth's spin causes the day and night cycles, which helps plants, trees and phytoplankton to survive.
14. Photosynthesis. 15. The sun's energy.

*If any system was missing, all life would die.
*Yes, Earth's distance from the sun, within the habitable zone is critical for life because it provides the right temperature range for liquid water, which is essential for most known life forms.
*All living cells need systems, a membrane, to take nutrients, to eliminate waste, RNA, DNA or the cell would die quickly.

This is one reason I believe in God.

This is the teleological argument for God's existance.

As Dr. Stephen Meyer would say it: The design argument.

I think it's one of the best.

 

[walter]

Hi Walter....

OK
But those are the scriptues that are used to support that God must be obeyed and if He's not we will forfeit our salvation.

But now we should go look for all the verses that are used to SUPPORT OSAS....
And there ARE some that sound as if OSAS might be right.


So now what?
Do you know of a solution??

(I think the solution is what we were discussing...
can't really remember!)

If the scriptures support believing, taking in knowledge, repenting, getting baptized, obedience to Jesus commands and God's word and enduring to the end.

How could we even consider once saved always saved, if we are not taking in knowledge, if we stop repenting, if we do not get baptized, if we do not obey Jesus instructions or God's word the Bible, if we do not endure to the end, meaning we give up too soon, how could we possibly think we are still saved, if we willfully ignore so many scriptures that are in the Bible?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Berean Standard Bible

So what if you decide later you no longer want to do the will of Jesus Father?

Should we listen to all the scriptures or just a few of them?

 

[Nancy]

Yeah.

The Baptist church I went to as a teen taught that every Christian should be able to put a date and a time and a place on when they were "born again". That messed me up for thirty years, because my coming to Christ at age 12 was marked by shame and fear. Not a positive experience. Fear and shame WILL make you mentally ill.

And yet, I heard many people testify that they never had a "magic moment", but they just ... slowly realized that they trusted Jesus Christ. And their lives showed the evidence of Christ in them.

So, I say, don't worry about the "when-exactly". Don't look for certainty. Just trust Jesus, and trust in God's love for you. And maybe you will find healing.

Okay?

(PS: I said a prayer for what you called your "mental issues".)

Funny, over just the last decade, I spent 3 years at a Baptist church and they DID all put so much emphasis on the "when"
I was also one who came gradually and then it all bloomed for me so, it was doing lot's of reading, alone for many years. I cannot say I've any good study habits but, I think I have some good teachers. :)

 

[GodsGrace]

Funny, over just the last decade, I spent 3 years at a Baptist church and they DID all put so much emphasis on the "when"
I was also one who came gradually and then it all bloomed for me so, it was doing lot's of reading, alone for many years. I cannot say I've any good study habits but, I think I have some good teachers. :)

I do believe that different persons get saved in different ways....
all by the same gospel, of course, but in different circumstances.

One person could have some kind of supernatural experience that convinces them of the existence of God
and so they become a believer.

Some come to believe in God by His revelation to them through nature...as in Romans 1:20.

Some, I think like you, just come to realize everything gradually and drift toward God and end up
staying with Him and obeying Him and worhsipping Him.

It doesn't matter HOW...
it just matters that it happens !

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi, Ernie.

The words "Christian" (Acts 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16) and "Christians" (Acts 11:26) appear only three times in scripture. In each case, the underlying Greek word is christianos.

G5546 - christianos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

G5546 - Χριστιανός Christianós, khris-tee-an-os'; from ; a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ:—Christian.

www.blueletterbible.org

If you follow the link, and if you look where it says "Root Word (Etymology)," then you will see that the Greek word christianos was derived from the Greek word christos, which means "anointed."

G5547 - christos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

G5547 - Χριστός Christós, khris-tos'; from ; anointed, i.e. the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus:—Christ.

www.blueletterbible.org

Christians are those who have been anointed by God with the Holy Spirit, and that initially takes place at the time of the new birth or when we are born again.

With this in mind, Paul wrote:

2Co 1:21
Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co 1:22
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Again, God is the one who has anointed us or made us Christians, and that took place at the time of our conversion. Notice, however, that Paul called this "the earnest of the Spirit." When Paul used the word "earnest," he had "earnest money" in mind.

Earnest Money: Definition and How It Works in Real Estate

In real estate transactions, earnest money is an escrowed deposit paid by a buyer that will be forfeited if the buyer backs out of the deal without a good reason.

www.investopedia.com

What Is Earnest Money?​

Earnest money is a deposit paid by a buyer to a seller to demonstrate a good-faith intention to make a purchase, such as for a new home. In many ways, earnest money can be considered a deposit on a home, an escrow deposit, or good faith money.

As Christians, we have received "the earnest of the Spirit," which is basically a downpayment from God that states that he "earnestly" intends to complete the purchase at a later date.

Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Although Christians have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, there is still coming a future day of redemption when we will receive the redemption of our bodies or glorified bodies.

I hope that this helps.

Hey Name....
Just fell on the above....
a little late to be responding.

I agree 100% with every word you've posted.

Just really disagree with your definition of Christian.

A Muslim believes he has been touched by God (not all of them).
So does this mean that he is a Christian?

Do you think that, maybe, Christian could have a different meaning?

If I call myself a conservative....do I get to make up the definition
or
does it already exist??

 

[rockytopva]

My Christian experience is similar to GC Rankins 150 years before me... And to retell the story...

Faith in the old Methodist Way

I came to faith in the old Methodist way and exactly the way George Clark Rankin 150 years before me. I have heard the difference between the Baptist and the Methodist is that the Baptist do not believe in backsliding but the Methodist practice it. For this cause I do not recommend any...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[GodsGrace]

If the scriptures support believing, taking in knowledge, repenting, getting baptized, obedience to Jesus commands and God's word and enduring to the end.

How could we even consider once saved always saved, if we are not taking in knowledge, if we stop repenting, if we do not get baptized, if we do not obey Jesus instructions or God's word the Bible, if we do not endure to the end, meaning we give up too soon, how could we possibly think we are still saved, if we willfully ignore so many scriptures that are in the Bible?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Berean Standard Bible

So what if you decide later you no longer want to do the will of Jesus Father?

Should we listen to all the scriptures or just a few of them?

Walter,
You won't get any argument from me!

I thought you were headed in a different direction here and I see that I was incorrect.

We agree.
ALL scripture has to be read, harmonized, reconciled and not twisted to make it mean what WE want it to mean.

I've had the experience of posting one short verse....Jesus speaking/teaching....
with maybe a few words explaining why I posted it.

The reply will, many times by those who do not agree, one or two paragraphs explaining why Jesus didn't really mean what He said.

Yes.
All scripture must be considered.

But most just pull out the verses they like and fight tooth and nail against the rest.

 

[GodsGrace]

My Christian experience is similar to GC Rankins 150 years before me... And to retell the story...

Faith in the old Methodist Way

I came to faith in the old Methodist way and exactly the way George Clark Rankin 150 years before me. I have heard the difference between the Baptist and the Methodist is that the Baptist do not believe in backsliding but the Methodist practice it. For this cause I do not recommend any...

www.christianityboard.com

Beautifully written!

 

[Nancy]

I do believe that different persons get saved in different ways....
all by the same gospel, of course, but in different circumstances.

One person could have some kind of supernatural experience that convinces them of the existence of God
and so they become a believer.

Some come to believe in God by His revelation to them through nature...as in Romans 1:20.

Some, I think like you, just come to realize everything gradually and drift toward God and end up
staying with Him and obeying Him and worhsipping Him.

It doesn't matter HOW...
it just matters that it happens !

I'm with you on all this Fran. As long as it DOES happen, why does anyone try or even care to put a specific date to it? Perhaps it is because they had such a dramatic conversion that, the date just stays in their minds...?
xoxo

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm with you on all this Fran. As long as it DOES happen, why does anyone try or even care to put a specific date to it? Perhaps it is because they had such a dramatic conversion that, the date just stays in their minds...?
xoxo

Agreed.
I don't remember the date but I can remember the era of my life when I began to realize/believe that God is real.
It didn't happen overnight.

If someone has one of these spiritual experiences, then of course they're going to remember exactly when it happened.
Like how those of my generation all remember exactly where they were when JFK got shot....or when the Twin Towers fell.
Same thing.

There's something wrong with a church that INSISTS that a person has to remember exactly when - insinuating that they might not really be saved otherwise.

The NT just does not teach this.

 

[pandaflower]

If the scriptures support believing, taking in knowledge, repenting, getting baptized, obedience to Jesus commands and God's word and enduring to the end.

How could we even consider once saved always saved, if we are not taking in knowledge, if we stop repenting, if we do not get baptized, if we do not obey Jesus instructions or God's word the Bible, if we do not endure to the end, meaning we give up too soon, how could we possibly think we are still saved, if we willfully ignore so many scriptures that are in the Bible?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Berean Standard Bible

So what if you decide later you no longer want to do the will of Jesus Father?

Should we listen to all the scriptures or just a few of them?

Many misunderstand doing the will of the father to mean that verse sustains impermanent reprieve from the sin state.
Which is the errant alternative to eternal irrevocable Security/Salvation.

Contextually the will of the father verse is reaffirming eternal security. Because the natural minded folk can't understand the things of God,as we are told.
Therefore those who do the will of the father cannot ever be those ones.

The verse can only be referring to the redeemed freed of the hardened natural mind that cannot do the will of the Father. Because to that intellect the things of God are foolishness. As we are also taught .

 

[GodsGrace]

Many misunderstand doing the will of the father to mean that verse sustains impermanent reprieve from the sin state.
Which is the errant alternative to eternal irrevocable Security/Salvation.

Contextually the will of the father verse is reaffirming eternal security. Because the natural minded folk can't understand the things of God,as we are told.
Therefore those who do the will of the father cannot ever be those ones.

The verse can only be referring to the redeemed freed of the hardened natural mind that cannot do the will of the Father. Because to that intellect the things of God are foolishness. As we are also taught .

And there you have it folks!

No further comment except to say that some DO NOT like reading the entire bible.

 

[walter]

I've had the experience of posting one short verse

Look this post if you want all the scriptures please.. post #3,185

Read all the scriptures yourself, and let the words in each verse explain the understanding, not me or you.

If the actual words from Jesus and the Apostles are not sufficient, what would be more sufficient?

 

[Aunty Jane]

All scripture must be considered.

But most just pull out the verses they like and fight tooth and nail against the rest.

And the Scriptures harmonise with that reality.....Solomon said that “there is nothing new under the sun”....and he was correct...human nature does not change with the changing of worldly circumstances.....the response is always predictable....so why do you think that the majority still follow this same pattern when there are so many warnings about it in the Bible?

Is deception any different to what we saw in Eden? That deception led to the downfall of the entire human race.
And what we saw in the history of Israel, when they were lured into false idol worship, what kind of deception caused them to defect from the truth that God’s many prophets had tried to warn them about? (Matt 23:37-39) They simply silenced them.

What deception caused the Jews to reject Jesus? What made the majority of the Jewish people rely on the teachings of those whom Jesus consigned to “Gehenna”? (Matt 23:33) He called them “blind guides” leading others to fall into the same “pit”.

God’s enemy uses the same tactics in each era with the same result.....as you stated....”most just pull out the verses they like and fight tooth and nail against the rest.”.....but why? Who is it that buries the truth and makes the lies seem so genuine, when all of them are adopted from outside of what Jesus taught? When did the lies become truth? History tells us.

The Scriptures they offer are twisted to fit an adopted doctrine, but those who study the Bible rather than relying on church “theology” are the only ones who reject those false but widely accepted doctrines, because they know what Christ taught....and what he never did. The Jewish leaders fell into that same trap...adopting false doctrines and passing them off as truth. (Matt 15:7-9)

Look at the models who have gone before us to recognize the pattern.....God has never been with the “majority”....the devil already has them....easily led because they are basically lazy, preferring to be spoon fed their theology, rather than to do their own homework. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23).

In a world ruled by God’s adversary (1 John 5:19)....NOTHING is as it appears to be......and a majority view is a red flag to those who know their Bible. It’s the ones crying “heresy” who are the real heretics.

 

[walter]

Many misunderstand doing the will of the father to mean that verse sustains impermanent reprieve from the sin state.
Which is the errant alternative to eternal irrevocable Security/Salvation.

Contextually the will of the father verse is reaffirming eternal security. Because the natural minded folk can't understand the things of God,as we are told.
Therefore those who do the will of the father cannot ever be those ones.

The verse can only be referring to the redeemed freed of the hardened natural mind that cannot do the will of the Father. Because to that intellect the things of God are foolishness. As we are also taught .

You make a good point, but here's my tendency, you are the one explaining those details, I listen to no one that explains any extra details, unless that person is Jesus or a Apostle doing the explaining of any extra details.

The words in each scripture is the details I put faith in not one word extra.

If Jesus wanted to add some detail or meaning, He would.

Peace, friendship and happiness be with you and your family, thanks for talking with me.

 

[pandaflower]

You make a good point, but here's my tendency, you are the one explaining those details, I listen to no one that explains any extra details, unless that person is Jesus or a Apostle doing the explaining of any extra details.

The words in each scripture is the details I put faith in not one word extra.

If Jesus wanted to add some detail or meaning, He would.

Peace, friendship and happiness be with you and your family, thanks for talking with me.

Jesus taught in parables so that not all would understand and come to repentance.

Those weren't extra details. My observation was the Jesus teachings in context.

And same to you and yours. :)