When exactly do you become a Christian?

[Nameaboveallnames]

Hey Name....
Just fell on the above....
a little late to be responding.

I agree 100% with every word you've posted.

Just really disagree with your definition of Christian.

A Muslim believes he has been touched by God (not all of them).
So does this mean that he is a Christian?

Do you think that, maybe, Christian could have a different meaning?

If I call myself a conservative....do I get to make up the definition
or
does it already exist??

Hi, GodsGrace.

It does not matter what a Muslim or anybody else believes. Instead, what matters is whether or not God has truly anointed someone with his Spirit (2 Cor. 1:21-22). Those who have truly been anointed (christos in the Greek) by God are Christians.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi, GodsGrace.

It does not matter what a Muslim or anybody else believes. Instead, what matters is whether or not God has truly anointed someone with his Spirit (2 Cor. 1:21-22). Those who have truly been anointed (christos in the Greek) by God are Christians.

I think we get being saved with being Christian.

I'm Not saying that a person has to be Christian in order to be saved.

I gave the example of a Muslim that is touched by God...
A muslim can be touched by God but it will not make him a Christian unless he comes to believe in Christian tenets.
Which means that he would have to believe in the dual nature of Jesus,,,that Jesus is God,,,and in baptism.

Do you not accept that Christianity was defined 2 thousand years ago?
We cannot change that definition.

Christ is the one who anoints EVERYONE that believes in God.
Everyone that is saved is saved through the sacrifice of Jesus.

BUT NOT everyone who believes in God is Christian.

If you don't see the difference, we'll leave it at this.
But if YOU are correct in your understanding, then it means there is no Christianity and a person could call themselves
a Christian but believe whatever they want to.

This is not good and will lead to further confusion about the Christian faith.

 

[Hillsage]

So in his strength and wisdom, you think that God has allowed men to corrupt his word?

What does the BIBLE say?
JER 8:8* "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.
Which flavor of Jews scribes could this verse above be speaking of concerning the writing of the OT? Could it be referring to the Masoretics, the Deuteronomists, or would the Yahwists be your favorite?

Your inconsistency is obvious to at least a couple of us here, but not to you. "REPLENISH" came from the KJV translation that @Behold was quoting in his #107 post. Your research is usually associated with JW sources, but you actually used BLUE LETTER BIBLE that time. I refuted your conclusion with that very same resource in my 114 post and You never addressed that post of mine at all. Poor apologetics IMO.

No matter what Bible you use, a good Concordance and an interlinear translation can be of great assistance in getting the truth from ANY Bible. This is why it’s called Bible “study”. It requires more than just reading what it says at face value.....that is what has produced so many denominations....”I think” is not the same as “God’s word says”......when you “know the truth”, it “sets you free” as Jesus said.....and there is only one truth.

I have several different GREEK interlinears that I use. I even use the Westcott and Hortt Greek text used for the "New World Translation". I was told it was a good CHEAP resource book to read....for the GREEK literal translation. But they then warned me not to accept how the WATCHTOWER scholars INTERPRETED the "literal" Greek into their New World Translation. And just tonight I STUDIED and found that your favorite JW bible translation has has had several revisions.....say what????? :You mean you didn't get your bibles right the first time? No help from Jehovah there? Or the second time? Or the ?? time? OH CONSISTENCY THOU ART A JEWELL TO BE SOUGHT FOR....IN "Christianity".

“Still cooking” is a man unconvinced. (James 1:5-8)

Or Maybe; ROM 12:3 I bid every one among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment,......

sober judgment beats being like a lot of the punch drunk sailors around "Christian Forums". Staggering "Christians" with two black eyes and ALL the while saying "I won I won...the doctrinal debate" I am actually the only one saying I don't believe I even qualify for the name of 'christian' which was not given to anyone IN THE BIBLE for 41 years after Jesus died.
But after watching the 5 hour funeral of Charlie Kirk. I must say he and his wife may be the first ones in a couple thousand years who may have actually attained to the high calling I am still striving for.

Conviction comes from study and the more you study the words used in Scripture as they were understood in their original languages, the better your understanding becomes. It also requires that we ditch all of Christendom’s foundational doctrines, and start from scratch with what the Bible actually teaches rather than what “degreed theologians” suggest that it teaches.

FYI my primary mentors in the faith were not degreed theologians. David Ebaugh was the anointed Pen/cassette ministry for my first 20 years, before dying, and Preston Eby has been the anointed written pen in my life for the last 39. Preston dying 3 years ago. And both had the three things Peter said was needed on the day of Pentecost "to be saved".

Humility is a good trait, but in error humility has no value. Truth is all that matters.

When faith is lost, nothing is lost, when hope is lost something is lost. But when LOVE is lost all is lost.

In case you hadn’t noticed...we are called “Jehovah’s Witnesses”.....like Jesus, who was Jehovah’s greatest witness. (Rev 3:14)
We study the Bible at every meeting and our brotherhood is global with no dissenters or those who want to create divisions. We all subscribe to the same truth, because there is only one. (1 Cor 1:10)

We are preachers of one gospel (good news) which is offered, but not forced on anyone because we see ourselves as “planters and waterers” of truth.....but it is “God who makes it grow”......and we are growing rapidly as “the end” approaches. (Matt 24:14) People who are lost in Christendom are searching for the God they know exists, but who does not appear to be present in that mess of confusion. They all disagree on so many things, but claim Jesus as their “Lord”. Their disunity is the proof that God is not among them. His spirit unites his people...it does not divide them.

In case you didn't know...when I say JW I know what those initials mean in your opinion. Unlike most "Christians" I actually believe your 'religious denomination' can be born again despite not adhering to something written 400 AD concerning the doctrine of MAN concerning the trinity. I've heard testimonies from JW's and Mormon's that I've called brothers and sisters. And I heard testimonies from both that my spirit does not hear the "deep calleth unto deep".

 

[quietthinker]

When exactly do you become a Christian?​

Christianity is a culture which manifests differently in different parts of the World.
The Christian culture generally is at war with itself, each faction trying to win over others from the other or prove the other wrong.
Christian culture has little to do with knowing Jesus even while his name is used to rubber stamp the varied peculiarities of its scattered and discordant masses.

 

[GodsGrace]

When exactly do you become a Christian?​

Christianity is a culture which manifests differently in different parts of the World.
The Christian culture generally is at war with itself, each faction trying to win over others from the other or prove the other wrong.
Christian culture has little to do with knowing Jesus even while his name is used to rubber stamp the varied peculiarities of its scattered and discordant masses.

I see a sad look on @Lambano but actually you're right.
Christianity IS celebrated differently in different parts of the world...
the correct language is that it is celebrated differently.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement....
but I still maintain that to be defined as Christian, there are specific tenets that must be met.

And yes CHRISTIAN CULTURE
CULTURE
has little to do with knowing Jesus.

Even Dawkins said he likes the Christian culture - or at least - believes that it is useful to a society.

 

[Hillsage]

When exactly do you become a Christian?​

Christianity is a culture which manifests differently in different parts of the World.

I'd say Churchianity (sic) is the culture which manifest differently.

The Christian culture generally is at war with itself,

I'd say 'church' culture, at war with itself, is opposite of manifesting the christian nature of Christ.

EPH 4:3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

each faction trying to win over others from the other or prove the other wrong.

All the while claiming the spirit of Christ is in them.
But the fruit inspection of their actions, smells of Anti Christ.

Christian culture has little to do with knowing Jesus even while his name is used to rubber stamp the varied peculiarities of its scattered and discordant masses.

I agree with you and Lambano, this is truly a SAD and discordant testimony from masses to 'the masses'.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What does the BIBLE say?
JER 8:8* "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.
Which flavor of Jews scribes could this verse above be speaking of concerning the writing of the OT? Could it be referring to the Masoretics, the Deuteronomists, or would the Yahwists be your favorite?

When using Scripture out of context, you can make it say whatever you want it to....
Read the whole chapter and see to whom it was directed, and why the natural Jews were a constant ‘pain in the neck’ to their God. It was they who authorised the lies that they told the people....just as Christendom’s leaders have. First century Judaism was a model for 21st century “Christianity”.....both corrupted beyond redemption. It is the hated “few” who have the truth. (Matt 7:13-14) The sower of the “weeds” has the majority right where he wants them....it’s a superhighway with many “lanes”.....but not with the destination they imagine. (Matt 7:21-23)

If you think God cannot control what is in his own word, then what basis do you have for any belief you hold?
It is God’s word....not men’s. Is your god powerless?...at the mercy of wicked humans?

Your inconsistency is obvious to at least a couple of us here, but not to you. "REPLENISH" came from the KJV translation that @Behold was quoting in his #107 post. Your research is usually associated with JW sources, but you actually used BLUE LETTER BIBLE that time. I refuted your conclusion with that very same resource in my 114 post and You never addressed that post of mine at all. Poor apologetics IMO.

It was shown to you clearly that the word “replenish” is used in different ways....in the context of the Scripture mentioned, it does not belong, unless you are again trying to make Scripture say what it never did.

Where in all of the Bible will I find any mention of a pre-Adamic race of humans.....that is complete and utter nonsense.....and more importantly it obscures the whole biblical narrative indicating why Jesus had to come and rescue Adam’s descendants......why did he not rescue your pre-Adamic humans?
What was the point of starting again and failing a second time? How do you make sense of what you have been led to believe?

I have several different GREEK interlinears that I use. I even use the Westcott and Hortt Greek text used for the "New World Translation". I was told it was a good CHEAP resource book to read....for the GREEK literal translation. But they then warned me not to accept how the WATCHTOWER scholars INTERPRETED the "literal" Greek into their New World Translation. And just tonight I STUDIED and found that your favorite JW bible translation has has had several revisions.....say what????? :You mean you didn't get your bibles right the first time? No help from Jehovah there? Or the second time? Or the ?? time? OH CONSISTENCY THOU ART A JEWELL TO BE SOUGHT FOR....IN "Christianity".

Why are revisions necessary? Ask any Bible translator why they made revisions, even in the KJV? Why is there a New KJV? Reading that archaic English is tiresome when so many words and phrases are no longer understood in the vernacular. It’s for clarity and to allow the scriptures to make more sense to the reader.
It is not to distort the word, but to make it clearer in the language into which it is translated.....English is not the only language translated, you know.

Or Maybe; ROM 12:3 I bid every one among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment,......

“Sober judgment”....in the Greek, the word is “sōphroneō” and it has the meaning.....

1. “to be of sound mind
   1. to be in one's right mind
   2. to exercise self control
      1. to put a moderate estimate upon one's self, think of one's self soberly
      2. to curb one's passions”

This is a very necessary element when we study God’s word. Being sound in mind, means that we take all things into consideration when we read a passage of Scripture, not taking verses out of context to invent scenarios that do not exist, except in men’s imagination.

Your pre-Adamic humans are a figment of a man’s imagination, adopted by others who think it might be true....that the story somehow has merit even though it is not mentioned at all in God’s word.

FYI my primary mentors in the faith were not degreed theologians

Then why did you mention it? My primary mentors are not “degreed theologians” either, just as Jesus’ apostles weren’t.....the learned men of Israel were corrupters of God’s word as Jeremiah mentioned in the verse you quoted out of context. You think God didn’t correct them?....that he left his word corrupted?
You don’t seem to have a very good opinion of the god you worship.....you paint him as powerless.....at the mercy of the devil’s minions.

When faith is lost, nothing is lost, when hope is lost something is lost. But when LOVE is lost all is lost.

When “faith” is lost there is nothing upon which to base “hope” or “love”.....who fed you that rubbish?

In case you didn't know...when I say JW I know what those initials mean in your opinion.

I know what they mean in fact, not an opinion at all.....JW as everyone knows, stands for Jehovah’s Witnesses, taken from Isaiah 43:10.
Jesus himself was the foremost witness for his God and Father, Yahweh/Jehovah. (Rev 3:14) And he encouraged his disciples to be the same. All Christians are to be witnesses for the truth. (Acts1:8) The work of the apostles was to be carried on until the whole world got a witness. (Matt 24:14) Did it mean that they would be well received? Apparently not. (John 15:18-21)

Unlike most "Christians" I actually believe your 'religious denomination' can be born again despite not adhering to something written 400 AD concerning the doctrine of MAN concerning the trinity. I've heard testimonies from JW's and Mormon's that I've called brothers and sisters. And I heard testimonies from both that my spirit does not hear the "deep calleth unto deep".

Regardless of what you called anyone, it is not your judgment that counts....nor mine....Jesus has that job, and he clearly outlines the criteria needed to be recognized by him as a disciple.

That last line there highlights the need for the KJV to be shelved as the dinosaur it has become....”the deep calleth unto deep”.....please tell me what that means to a 21st century reader....?
What is the point of a translation if you have to learn another outdated language in order to read it?

 

[GodsGrace]

I'd say Churchianity (sic) is the culture which manifest differently.

There's no religion named CHURCHIANITY.

Sounds like you don't really know about different cultures.

I'd say 'church' culture, at war with itself, is opposite of manifesting the christian nature of Christ.

Christianity opposes itself.

Do you believe in OSAS?
Do you believe that baptism washes us of our sins?

Is Jesus God or the Son of God?

EPH 4:3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.


All the while claiming the spirit of Christ is in them.
But the fruit inspection of their actions, smells of Anti Christ.

So are YOU inspecting fruit?
Or are you accusing others of inspecting fruit?

And WHEN did this expression enter into the church?
Do these expressions UNITE Christians or SEPARATE them?

I agree with you and Lambano, this is truly a SAD and discordant testimony from masses to 'the masses'.

Well, I guess that makes 3 of us.
Any solution?

 

[Behold]

Do you believe in OSAS?

OSAS is a 2000 yr old Gnostic mind trap teaching........that is designed to get you to misunderstand the Gospel, so that when you hear it taught correctly, you are caused to beleive that someone is teaching "licence to sin".
Its a demoic twist of words, that subverts a person's faith, so that they lose it and begin to try to keep themselves saved, and they are convinced that salvation can be lost.
Thats the end result of being deceived by the GNOSITC (Jewish) OSAS teaching.

JUDE teaches that these Jews "subverted" the faith of Real Christians with this teaching, and this has continued for 2000 yrs.

Forums are filled with people who have been deceived by this teaching., including you.

 

[GodsGrace]

OSAS is a 2000 yr old Gnostic mind trap teaching........that is designed to get you to misunderstand the Gospel, so that when you hear it taught correctly, you are caused to beleive that someone is teaching "licence to sin".
Its a demoic twist of words, that subverts a person's faith, so that they lose it and begin to try to keep themselves saved, and they are convinced that salvation can be lost.
Thats the end result of being deceived by the GNOSITC (Jewish) OSAS teaching.

JUDE teaches that these Jews "subverted" the faith of Real Christians with this teaching, and this has continued for 2000 yrs.

Post the scripture by Jude.
'night.

 

[quietthinker]

Well, I guess that makes 3 of us.
Any solution?

At the risk of being repetitive, the solution is seeing Jesus as the objective in God's declaration of himself. Only then will we find the courage to take another look at all those 'what about' verses in scripture.

 

[Hillsage]

There's no religion named CHURCHIANITY.

Correction to above, I said; CHURCHIANITY (SIC)

Hey, SIRI what does (SIC) mean?

"So “sic” is a Latin adverb that is used to note when a quotation may not be correct in terms of spelling or grammar. It was first used in the English language in the late 1850s...."

Sounds like you don't really know about different cultures.

Our city of 30,000 has to send out letters from the school district to parents in 28 different languages. I won't list all the cultures I've been exposed to as a doctor. Many had to bring their own interpreters to see me in 45 years of practice.

Christianity opposes itself.

That's an empty statement IMO. Don't know what you're saying that means to you. But for me 'True' Christianity does not oppose itself.

Do you believe in OSAS?

Only for the spirit. Not for the soul or the body.

Do you believe that baptism washes us of our sins?

Do you believe Jesus sinned because He was water baptized in John's baptism, which was a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins?

Is Jesus God or the Son of God?

He is the "son of man" after His flesh, He is the "son of David" after His soul, and He is the "son of God" after His spirit (spirit of christ NOT the Holy Spirit of the Trinity).

When Jesus said; JOH 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'?
Do you believe you're a GOD and a son of God? I do.

So are YOU inspecting fruit?
Or are you accusing others of inspecting fruit?

YES to both questions. Some just aren't as qualified as much as others to be doing so.

And WHEN did this expression enter into the church?

If you mean the word Christian, it really doesn't matter WHEN, it matters what it MEANT. And we've had a number of differing opinions. WHY is that?

Do these expressions UNITE Christians or SEPARATE them?

Can't answer, because no one here has quoted a verse to even define the word. But translators have led all astray by capitalizing the C. And that's pretty much divided me from everyone here. That's OK to me though.

Well, I guess that makes 3 of us.
Any solution?

HEB 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

 

[Lambano]

I see a sad look on @Lambano...

Meh. He'll get over it.

 

[quietthinker]

Meh. He'll get over it.

 

[Lambano]

That one definitely went over my head. Whooosh!

 

[GodsGrace]

At the risk of being repetitive, the solution is seeing Jesus as the objective in God's declaration of himself. Only then will we find the courage to take another look at all those 'what about' verses in scripture.

That's all very nice and beautiful.

But we were discussing the Christian faith....
Is seeing Jesus as the objective of God's declaration of Himself sufficient to be known as a Christian?

Apparently you don't believe it's important for CHRISTIANITY to have an objective set of beliefs to which one must agree.

It's OK.

Not many on these Forums do.
But it does not bode well for Christianity.

 

[GodsGrace]

Meh. He'll get over it.

Looks like you already did !

 

[Lambano]

I'm with you on all this Fran. As long as it DOES happen, why does anyone try or even care to put a specific date to it? Perhaps it is because they had such a dramatic conversion that, the date just stays in their minds...?
xoxo

I think the purpose is to give the believer something to fall back on at 3 A.M. when the doubts come.

 

[GodsGrace]

Correction to above, I said; CHURCHIANITY (SIC)

Hey, SIRI what does (SIC) mean?

"So “sic” is a Latin adverb that is used to note when a quotation may not be correct in terms of spelling or grammar. It was first used in the English language in the late 1850s...."

It actually means the following....
but we're not in English class.

If you're reading an article in which the author is quoting another writer or citing a title, you might see the word [sic] inserted somewhere in the text:

The cartoonist cast back to another strip he had drawn in 1972 as a contribution to a compendium called Funny Aminals (sic).
— David H. VanBiema, People, 27 Oct. 1986

But, there may be more than one meaning....not taking the time to check it out completely.

Perhaps you were reading an article about CHURCHIANITY.....

Just for those reading along....
In case they're really interested.


And YOU didn't notice that I was being SARCASTIC in using that spelling back to you.

Our city of 30,000 has to send out letters from the school district to parents in 28 different languages. I won't list all the cultures I've been exposed to as a doctor. Many had to bring their own interpreters to see me in 45 years of practice.

You could see 100,000 persons.
I don't care.
It doesn't mean you know their CULTURE.

Because you're exposed to a person of a different NATIONALITY does not mean you know their CULTURE.

That's an empty statement IMO. Don't know what you're saying that means to you. But for me 'True' Christianity does not oppose itself.

I said:
CHRISTIANITY OPPOSES ITSELF.

This means that within Christianity there are opposing views.
Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

I mean that how a different culture worships is DIFFERENT than WHAT they believe.
IOW,,,I believe it's important to have a set belief system for Christianity....
HOW that belief system is celebrated is a different matter.

Only for the spirit. Not for the soul or the body.

Thanks for proving my point.

Do you believe Jesus sinned because He was water baptized in John's baptism, which was a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins?

Thanks for proving my point.

He is the "son of man" after His flesh, He is the "son of David" after His soul, and He is the "son of God" after His spirit (spirit of christ NOT the Holy Spirit of the Trinity).

When Jesus said; JOH 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'?
Do you believe you're a GOD and a son of God? I do.

Thanks for proving my point.

YES to both questions. Some just aren't as qualified as much as others to be doing so.

Thanks for proving my point.

If you mean the word Christian, it really doesn't matter WHEN, it matters what it MEANT. And we've had a number of differing opinions. WHY is that?

I don't know Hillsage....
this is the entire POINT of my post to you.

If Christianity had a set belief system you would NOT have had to ask me the above questions to which I replied:
THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT.

Can't answer, because no one here has quoted a verse to even define the word. But translators have led all astray by capitalizing the C. And that's pretty much divided me from everyone here. That's OK to me though.

HEB 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Sure.

But that doesn't solve the problem I'm presenting.

I DO realize that you probably don't care to discuss this and I might have misunderstood your post.
It's OK.
No problem.
Not many are as concerned about this as I am.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think the purpose is to give the believer something to fall back on at 3 A.M. when the doubts come.

Your reply would cause a nice long post...
but I'm pretty sure you don't care to hear it.

1. Why would an experience help 20 years into the future?
2. Why would doubts come?