When was the last time you heard the word Rapture in your Church?

[Taken]

TRUE

FALSE. Jesus is presently seated at the right hand of the Father.

HEAVEN is Gods Throne.
High Heaven...
Also mid (2nd Heaven)
Holy Angels estate, subject to, and in the presence of God.
Also Saved Souls of OT men, subject to, and in the presence of God.
Also Saved Souls of NT men, who were revealed the Name Jesus, thee Christ, and became Christ's "Church", subject to, and in the presence of Christ.
God and Christ seated TOGETHER, with their Holy Angels...and Saved souls (of dead men)..and spirits of men that were quicken, ie born again...(of dead men).

FALSE. There is no Scripture to support this.

FALSE. There is no Scripture to support this.

Rather than read the writings of others and be misled, kindly invest in a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (KJB) and Nave's Topical Bible (KJB). Then go through every reference to "heaven" and "the heavens" and EXTRACT the truth directly from the Scriptures.

Yes.

For the present, one passage should suffice.

Revelations is DEEP, difficult without knowledge AND spiritual understanding of basics.

REVELATION 7

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

What I just spoke of (ie mid heaven)...
Before the throne...and the Lamb...
The multitudes of saved souls, quickened spirits (ie born again), praising God, honoring God.......
These ^^ are all waiting FOR;
The Tribulation to come and go...
And FOR;
Restoration of the Earth...
And FOR;
their glorified bodies.
(Other things as well in more detail)

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These ^^ are they which are living and born, just before the Tribulation....and have not yet chosen to submit to God or Christ.
Jews, Gentiles alike....When the anti-Christ assumes the position of World leader...
Peace and Safety (even touted now) shall be the platform of the anti-Christ world leader.

Many shall jump on board, and take His Mark, some will submit to God/Christ.
Nearing the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation....the peace and safety platform fades away....and the dictator tyrant, will proclaim himself god.
Some will relent, take his mark....
Some will reject him, Commit to the Lord God, and shall be bodily killed...and their souls (5th seal), under the alter...until all in Christ who are found, shall be killed.
Rev 5:9
Then all their Saved souls shall be raised up, having come out of the Great tribulation...and in Heaven...before God and Jesus seated together, and they praising Him.
rev 7:14

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

it's like thisss;
and like that

 

[Taken]

it's like thisss;
and like that

Yes.

They and we.

For and Against God.

Mindful understanding and Gods understanding.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Ac28]

Thanks for your effort in this post, Ac28.
I disagree with pretty much all of it, esp your comment above. The whole Bible can apply to us today, as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:11 All those things that happened to them [the ancestors] were symbolic and were recorded as a warning for us, upon whom the end of the age has come.
And 2 Peter 1:19
You maintain a divide between Israel and the Church. Yes, the Jewish State of Israel and the established Church are separate entities, but there is only One people of God. John 17:20-23, Titus 2:11-14....a peculiar people.
They are every faithful believer, Jew and Gentile, all born again Christians and as all of God's Promises are in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 1:20, therefore we Christians are the inheritors. Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:11-14, Galatians 3:26-29
NOT ethnic Israel, as ethnicity counts for nothing now. Ephesians 2:11-18

I do not wish to go to live in the 'highest heaven'. that is waaaay beyond my pay grade.
We humans are earth people and those who do believe in God and are born again in Jesus, have been given tasks to do here. The Great Commission, Matthew 28:19, has not yet been rescinded, I suggest that you and all who are awaiting a rapture, get on with what you can do in your various situations and when Jesus Returns, be seen doing His work.

If you believe all scripture is TO us and ABOUT us, when was the last time you sacrificed an animal?

You can't have both the New Jerusalem and Heaven. Which one will you pick? Actually, if you pick the New Jerusalem, you can't have either one. Why? Because the New Jerusalem was never given to the Gentiles. Only Israel's elite and those few Gentiles in Acts that were grafted into Israel. Because, if you believe anything is yours, that was given ONLY to Israel, God won't give you those things (Heaven) in Paul's post-Acts Books. God wants people that believe His word, and believing that all those things given to Israel ONLY, also belong to Gentiles, makes you a total failure in believing God's Word.

So, if you persist in believing all that Jewish stuff, that was never, ever given to YOU, you'll be a man without a Calling. Everyone without a calling will be in the White Throne Judgment. If you pass muster there, you'll be a peon on the New Earth with the nation Israel. You'll have a terrestrial body (that binds you to the earth) with 2 dimensional freedom that must be kept alive with pure water and the tree of life. You can have the much, much better Hope of the Highest Heaven in Phil 3:20, if you eliminate all that Jewish stuff from your mind, stuff that you'll NEVER get anyway, and focus on Paul's 7 post-Acts books, the ONLY books in the Bible that are TO you and ABOUT you, as a Gentile living today.

Galatians 4:26 - no longer available
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it (Heaven) we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[Ac28]

Thanks for your effort in this post, Ac28.
I disagree with pretty much all of it, esp your comment above. The whole Bible can apply to us today, as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:11 All those things that happened to them [the ancestors] were symbolic and were recorded as a warning for us, upon whom the end of the age has come.
And 2 Peter 1:19
You maintain a divide between Israel and the Church. Yes, the Jewish State of Israel and the established Church are separate entities, but there is only One people of God. John 17:20-23, Titus 2:11-14....a peculiar people.
They are every faithful believer, Jew and Gentile, all born again Christians and as all of God's Promises are in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 1:20, therefore we Christians are the inheritors. Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 1:11-14, Galatians 3:26-29
NOT ethnic Israel, as ethnicity counts for nothing now. Ephesians 2:11-18

I do not wish to go to live in the 'highest heaven'. that is waaaay beyond my pay grade.
We humans are earth people and those who do believe in God and are born again in Jesus, have been given tasks to do here. The Great Commission, Matthew 28:19, has not yet been rescinded, I suggest that you and all who are awaiting a rapture, get on with what you can do in your various situations and when Jesus Returns, be seen doing His work.

If you believe all scripture is TO us and ABOUT us, when was the last time you sacrificed an animal?

You can't have both the New Jerusalem and Heaven. Which one will you pick? Actually, if you pick the New Jerusalem, you can't have either one. Why? Because the New Jerusalem was never given to the Gentiles. Only Israel's elite and those few Gentiles in Acts that were grafted into Israel. Because, if you believe anything is yours, that was given ONLY to Israel, God won't give you those things (Heaven) in Paul's post-Acts Books. God wants people that believe His word, and believing that all those things given to Israel ONLY, also belong to Gentiles, makes you a total failure in believing God's Word.

So, if you persist in believing all that Jewish stuff, that was never, ever given to YOU, you'll be a man without a Calling. Everyone without a calling will be in the White Throne Judgment. If you pass muster there, you'll be a peon on the New Earth with the nation Israel. You'll have a terrestrial body (that binds you to the earth) with 2 dimensional freedom that must be kept alive with pure water and the tree of life. You can have the much, much better Hope of the Highest Heaven in Phil 3:20, if you eliminate all that Jewish stuff from your mind, stuff that you'll NEVER get anyway, and focus on Paul's 7 post-Acts books, the ONLY books in the Bible that are TO you and ABOUT you, as a Gentile living today.

Galatians 4:26 - no longer available
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it (Heaven) we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[Taken]

OP ~

Last time I was in a Church was for a wedding ceremony....

I heard no one mention The Rapture.


God Bless,
Taken

 

[Heart2Soul]

In brief...

I believe in High (3rd) Heaven, Gods Estate, Pure absolute Light, never subject to corruption, or darkness.

I believe the mid (2nd ) Heaven is the Estate of Holy Angels (was once the estate of all angels, until some were cast to earth, because of their corruption, and some holy angels that were on earth (as servants of God), but became corrupt on earth, thus, they also lost their first estate. (They ending up being cast into hell, in prison/chains).

I believe the lower (1st) Heaven is a firmament between earth and the higher heavens, created in the beginning. Gen 1.
The sky's, clouds, moon, that men can see, and have a glimpse of Gods works.
The lower heavens, a paradox of sorts...
A place where, fallen angels can roam, remembering WHAT they HAD, but can have no more, as they elected to become corrupt.
A place that mankind can SEE, (and through technology, even fly in planes and space ships and marvel at Gods wonderments)....and be comforted, that their Saved souls, departed out of their dead bodies, shall rise up to the 2nd heaven, more glorious than the 1st.

God Bless,
Taken

This is along the same lines my reference sources have said. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Keraz]

Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it (Heaven) we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Our names are enrolled in the Book of Life, John 3:16, kept in heaven.
We await Jesus to Return with proof of our citizenship in His Kingdom, we don't go there to live.

Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It cannot be just those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.
The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behavior, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10

It was always possible for foreigners to become an Israelite, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:

Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..
Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is accepted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18. Isaiah 56:1-8

So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:

1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry back to Abraham extant today.

2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.

3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17


Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel.

Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
WE Christians are all true born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

This truth that: all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. We will never go to live in heaven, but eventually heaven comes down to earth. Revelation 20:4

The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27. Romans 9:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4

It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26

 

[Taken]

Our names are enrolled in the Book of Life, John 3:16, kept in heaven.

Yes.

Book(S) ... Rev 20:12

Book of Life...reveals a recorded Name of every earthly man born. (And subject to being blotted out). Rev 3:5, Rev 21:18

Lamb's Book of Life...reveals a recorded Name of every earthly man born again IN CHRIST. Rev. 21:27

(And such Name never subject to being blotted out). Rev 21:11

We await Jesus to Return

Yes, WE in Christ.

Descent TO the Clouds, Calling His Church UP to the Clouds, above the Earth, to Meet Him.
Men being risen up IN their changed (to glorious bodies).

with proof of our citizenship in His Kingdom,

His reward, forward unto us. Rev 22:12

we don't go there to live.

Correct. Heaven has never been mankinds estate.

Currently there is a separation, a firmament between heaven AND earth. Gen 1

Future, no separation. Matt 6:10

Men on earth have freewill opportunity while in their earthly life, to become prepared, to occupy a new earth opened to a new heaven.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Ac28]

Our names are enrolled in the Book of Life, John 3:16, kept in heaven.
We await Jesus to Return with proof of our citizenship in His Kingdom, we don't go there to live.

Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It cannot be just those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.
The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behavior, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10

It was always possible for foreigners to become an Israelite, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:

Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..
Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is accepted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18. Isaiah 56:1-8

So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:

1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry back to Abraham extant today.

2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.

3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17


Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel.

Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
WE Christians are all true born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

This truth that: all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. We will never go to live in heaven, but eventually heaven comes down to earth. Revelation 20:4

The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27. Romans 9:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4

It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26

No offense, but ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can see in your post applies to anyone living today. You have a very tradition-al approach that makes the Word of God of none effect. Since Israel hasn't existed, in God's eyes, since they were set aside in 64AD, we Gentiles today have ZERO - NADA - ZILCH - ABSOLUTELY NO doctrinal association with Israel today. NONE!!!!! Every Jew today is an individual Gentile, in God's eyes and, to obtain salvation, they must believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, just like us. They have NO national privileges. They are just regular, run-of-the-mill Gentiles.

When this 2000 years 100% Gentile period ends, in about 2064, the very first thing that will happen is that we members of the Church which is His actual Body, as found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, will be resurrected and translated to God's abode, in the uncreated Heavenly Places where Christ now sits at the right hand of God, which is Far Above the created starry Heavens, to wait for the manifestation (epiphaneia), the Appearing of Jesus Christ.

This is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than the parousia, Christ's Second Coming (rapture), where the resurrected elite Jews and those few Gentiles that were part of Israel during Acts will be resurrected at the 7th trump of Revelation, at the end of the tribulation. These raptured Israelite Saints will go out to meet Christ in the air and will then return to the earth to begin the Millennium.

The ONLY scripture that applies directly to anyone living today is found in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. Everything in those books was HID from EVERY AGE and GENERATION and was written before the world began
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The mystery was given to Paul by Jesus Christ, after Acts ended. Paul then wrote those 7 books
Eph 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;

Everything in the Gospels and Acts was prophesied in the OT, all of which took place after the mystery was written.
Acts 26:22
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

So, if you really want the truth, you must think dispensationally and mentally CUT the scripture (2Tim 2:15) between Acts and Ephesians (the only place in the Bible you can cut it to completely divide and separate everything concerning ONLY Israel from everything concerning ONLY today's Gentiles), you will readily see that, except for Christ, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IS NEEDED, except Christ, from those 59 all-Israel books. The post-Acts epistles are COMPLETE IN THEMSELVES. You could probably even get saved from them. Everything concerning Paul's post-Acts epistles was contained in the mystery, and the mystery was composed before Adam and before Israel even existed. The church today is an island unto itself, with a totally self contained composition. Nothing in the 59 all-Israel books have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with it. Others have said that there are no tracks in to the totally Gentile island and no tracks out.

Before God becomes all in all, He is calling out 3 different groups of Human Saints to occupy all 3 parts of the Universe, Earth, the created Heavens, and the uncreated Heaven of Heavens, which is far above the created starry Heavens. There are 5 OT verses that mention all 3 parts of the universe - Deut 10:14, 1Ki 8:27, 2 Chr 2:6, 6:18, and Neh 9:6

1st 2000 years. All Gentiles. Total failure (at least in our minds). Gentiles set aside, 100%, at the end of this period
2nd 2000 years. All Israel. Gentiles have nothing except future promises. Fills out the Earth and the created Heavens (New Jerusalem).
(3rd 2000 years) a parenthesis. Gentiles ONLY. Israel doesn't exist. Fills out the Heaven of Heavens.
?????? Years - All of Israel's OT prophecies fulfilled - Israel believes - Gentiles blessed through believing Israel

When the present day 100% Gentile Church is in the Highest Heaven, Israel will be back in God's graces and prophecy will once again be fulfilled and then some of the scripture you quoted will be valid. Not for anyone living today, though.

 

[Keraz]

No offense, but ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can see in your post applies to anyone living today. You have a very tradition-al approach that makes the Word of God of none effect. Since Israel hasn't existed, in God's eyes, since they were set aside in 64AD, we Gentiles today have ZERO - NADA - ZILCH - ABSOLUTELY NO doctrinal association with Israel today. NONE!!!!! Every Jew today is an individual Gentile, in God's eyes and, to obtain salvation, they must believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, just like us. They have NO national privileges. They are just regular, run-of-the-mill Gentiles.

When this 2000 years 100% Gentile period ends, in about 2064, the very first thing that will happen is that we members of the Church which is His actual Body, as found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, will be resurrected and translated to God's abode, in the uncreated Heavenly Places where Christ now sits at the right hand of God, which is Far Above the created starry Heavens, to wait for the manifestation (epiphaneia), the Appearing of Jesus Christ.

This is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than the parousia, Christ's Second Coming (rapture), where the resurrected elite Jews and those few Gentiles that were part of Israel during Acts will be resurrected at the 7th trump of Revelation, at the end of the tribulation. These raptured Israelite Saints will go out to meet Christ in the air and will then return to the earth to begin the Millennium.

The ONLY scripture that applies directly to anyone living today is found in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. Everything in those books was HID from EVERY AGE and GENERATION and was written before the world began
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The mystery was given to Paul by Jesus Christ, after Acts ended. Paul then wrote those 7 books
Eph 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;

Everything in the Gospels and Acts was prophesied in the OT, all of which took place after the mystery was written.
Acts 26:22
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

So, if you really want the truth, you must think dispensationally and mentally CUT the scripture (2Tim 2:15) between Acts and Ephesians (the only place in the Bible you can cut it to completely divide and separate everything concerning ONLY Israel from everything concerning ONLY today's Gentiles), you will readily see that, except for Christ, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IS NEEDED, except Christ, from those 59 all-Israel books. The post-Acts epistles are COMPLETE IN THEMSELVES. You could probably even get saved from them. Everything concerning Paul's post-Acts epistles was contained in the mystery, and the mystery was composed before Adam and before Israel even existed. The church today is an island unto itself, with a totally self contained composition. Nothing in the 59 all-Israel books have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with it. Others have said that there are no tracks in to the totally Gentile island and no tracks out.

Before God becomes all in all, He is calling out 3 different groups of Human Saints to occupy all 3 parts of the Universe, Earth, the created Heavens, and the uncreated Heaven of Heavens, which is far above the created starry Heavens. There are 5 OT verses that mention all 3 parts of the universe - Deut 10:14, 1Ki 8:27, 2 Chr 2:6, 6:18, and Neh 9:6

1st 2000 years. All Gentiles. Total failure (at least in our minds). Gentiles set aside, 100%, at the end of this period
2nd 2000 years. All Israel. Gentiles have nothing except future promises. Fills out the Earth and the created Heavens (New Jerusalem).
(3rd 2000 years) a parenthesis. Gentiles ONLY. Israel doesn't exist. Fills out the Heaven of Heavens.
?????? Years - All of Israel's OT prophecies fulfilled - Israel believes - Gentiles blessed through believing Israel

When the present day 100% Gentile Church is in the Highest Heaven, Israel will be back in God's graces and prophecy will once again be fulfilled and then some of the scripture you quoted will be valid. Not for anyone living today, though.

Ac28; I see you as a totally confused and deceived person.
What you posted above is a ramble of wrong ideas about me, and a theory about God's Plan, that is unrelated to what we are told in the Bible.
I can see that it is useless for me to attempt rebuttal, as you would just scorn it, however I will remind you that the Lord took the Kingdom promises off Israel, the people you think are just the Jews, and gave it to the people who bear the fruit of the Spirit. Matthew 21:43
This is how it is now and there is nowhere in the Bible that says the Jews will get the Kingdom back. Only as individual Christians, born again in the Spirit, just as we Gentiles get there.

ONE people of God and nowhere is it said that we ever leave earth.​

 

[Ac28]

Ac28; I see you as a totally confused and deceived person.
What you posted above is a ramble of wrong ideas about me, and a theory about God's Plan, that is unrelated to what we are told in the Bible.
I can see that it is useless for me to attempt rebuttal, as you would just scorn it, however I will remind you that the Lord took the Kingdom promises off Israel, the people you think are just the Jews, and gave it to the people who bear the fruit of the Spirit. Matthew 21:43
This is how it is now and there is nowhere in the Bible that says the Jews will get the Kingdom back. Only as individual Christians, born again in the Spirit, just as we Gentiles get there.

ONE people of God and nowhere is it said that we ever leave earth.​

Christ said in Matthew 13:34 , after quoting the warning of Isaiah 6:9-10 ( Matthew 13:13-15 ), that He would not speak again to the Multitude/Pharisees, except in parables. Except when He was verbally condemning the Pharisees, He followed this rule for the rest of His ministry. However, Israel was forgiven through Christ's prayer on the cross. As the Son of God, you know His prayer was fulfilled. At that point, everything was reset, including what Christ said in Matthew 21:43 , and Israel was back in God's good graces, at least temporarily, until Israel was set aside, 33 years later, in the Acts of the Apostles 28:28 . After quoting the FINAL warning, for the 5th and last time in the Bible, of Isaiah 6:9-10 in Acts of the Apostles 28:25-27, Israel ceased to be "My People", when the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from them and given to the Gentiles, vs 28.
Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

After His Resurrection, Christ gave the 12 apostles, who ministered ONLY to the Jews (with one exception, Cornelius, in 37 years of the ministry of the 12), a 40 day Bible study concerning Israel's promised Kingdom. After that, the 12 knew EVERYTHING about the Kingdom promised to Israel.
Acts of the Apostles 1:3
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Therefore, this question was extremely knowledgeable and valid.
Acts of the Apostles 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Christ didn't tell them they were wrong. He just said they couldn't know WHEN it would be restored to Israel
Acts of the Apostles 1:7
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Christ said He wouldn't return until Israel repented and accepted Christ as their promised Messiah, Matthew 23:39 and Acts of the Apostles 3:19-20. The ONLY purpose of Acts was to convince Israel to repent, so Christ would return and Israel's earthly Kingdom would start. The ONLY Gospel preached to Israel all during Acts, by both the 12 and Paul, was the same Gospel of the Kingdom that Christ preached.

The first Gentile in the Acts Church was in Acts 10, 8 years after Pentecost. Before and after that, we find the gospel of the Kingdom preached to Israel. If the Kingdom were taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles, why did everybody keep preaching it to Israel?
By Philip
Acts of the Apostles 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

By Paul
In the synagogue
Acts of the Apostles 19:8
And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
In Rome, to the Pharisees
Acts of the Apostles 28:23
And when they (chief of the Jews - vs 17) had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God......

Paul even preached the kingdom Gospel to the Gentiles in Acts, since all these Gentiles were part of Israel, being grafted into Israel and sharing some of Israel's blessings. Paul preached the Gospel of the uncircumcision to the Gentiles, called the Gospel of the of the Grace of God, which was that the Gentiles could partake of Israel's blessings without being circumcised or having to keep the Law. This was essentially the Gospel of the Kingdom. Besides proselytes, these Gentiles in Acts were the only Gentiles in the Bible that would ever be part of Israel's earthly Kingdom. Maybe these few Gentiles were the ones Christ refers to in Matthew 21:43

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There are several places that prove we Gentiles will leave the earth and go to Heaven, but they're all in Paul's post-Acts books, which obviously are totally neglected by you and are not in your personal canon.
Compare Ephesians 1:20 , where Christ ascended to (when He passed THROUGH the starry Heavens, on His way to Heavenly Places, Hebrews 4:14 ESV) with Ephesians 2:6, where we in today's Church will go to - SAME PLACE.
Ephesians 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

What about this one? We will be translated to Heaven to wait for the manifestation, His Appearing (epiphaneia - NOT rapture. His parousia) of Christ, in Heavenly Places
Philippians 3:20 - ESV
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it (Heaven) we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

And, this one summed it all up
Colossians 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Note that Glory is located above the Heavens
Ps 8:1
O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens (starry, created)

You will find nothing in the 59 all-Israel books that indicates anybody will be in God's abode, the uncreated Heavenly Places, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Israel's best resurrection possible is the New Jerusalem, the city that comes down out of the created New Heavens, attaches to the New Earth and becomes its capitol.

The Greek phrase, "en tois epouraniois", translated "Heavenly Places" is found only 5 times in scripture, ALL in Ephesians. It's always been a challenge for the "scholars" to translate that phrase. Other translations I've seen are the "Supra-Heavenlies" or "Super-Heavenlies".

I have proven, beyond doubt, through a 100% honest display of scripture, that the Hope of the post-Acts church, found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, is where God lives, in the Highest Heaven, Heavenly Places. On the other hand, the Hope of Israel and Gentiles grafted into Israel, in the other 59 books, is, at best, the New Jerusalem. In the Greek, there was a very specific word for each and every thing. Therefore, THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ARE NEVER, EVER THE SAME!!!

 

[Keraz]

Thank you AC28, you have made your case well.
However, I just do not see a 'rapture to heaven' for anyone other than the 2 Witnesses and they get killed first.
We Christians have tasks to do here on earth, an escape away from our responsibilities is not and was never God's plan for His People.

Many prophesies tell us what will happen to the Jewish people, those who obdurately refuse to accept their Messiah. Romans 9:27 says it plainly.

 

[n2thelight]

People say the difference in the rapture and the 2nd coming is that at the rapture Christ comes for the Church but at the 2nd coming He comes with the Church.

Here's the problem with that thinking

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

Those who have died is the subject

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

The verse says Christ brings with Him those who have died NOT,those who were raptured...

 

[Ac28]

Thank you AC28, you have made your case well.
However, I just do not see a 'rapture to heaven' for anyone other than the 2 Witnesses and they get killed first.
We Christians have tasks to do here on earth, an escape away from our responsibilities is not and was never God's plan for His People.

Many prophesies tell us what will happen to the Jewish people, those who obdurately refuse to accept their Messiah. Romans 9:27 says it plainly.

May God Bless You!. You're one of the few that doesn't buy into the lies concerning the rapture taking millions of elite Israelites and those few Gentiles in Acts to Heaven. God has many tasks for us in Heavenly Places. We that can SEE our Hope in Eph, Col,etc, were chosen before the world began through God's foreknowledge. Sometimes, I even think we were there at that time. Israel are the earthly people. They have the promises of the Land. We in today's ONLY church, which started the instant Ac 28:28 was uttered, are told in Col 3:2 to "Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

I know it's difficult. At one time, I believed all the Denominational Church tripe that dominates this and every forum I've ever been on. Even after I saw the absolute truth in Ephesians, etc., it took me 10 years to completely push all of the Jewish (only) baggage out of my mind. I know it seems the opposite, but I totally believe that what I am teaching is the closest thing to truth in the whole of Christendom. The rapture, in all it's lying and deceitful and Satanic glory is the biggest detriment to truth Satan has devised. Although it hasn't applied to anyone living in almost 2000 years, it keeps people in Acts and prevents them from seeing their real Hope in Eph, Col, etc.

 

[Ac28]

People say the difference in the rapture and the 2nd coming is that at the rapture Christ comes for the Church but at the 2nd coming He comes with the Church.

Here's the problem with that thinking

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

Those who have died is the subject

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

The verse says Christ brings with Him those who have died NOT,those who were raptured...

In the ONLY scriptural rapture, which occurs at the end of the tribulation, at the 7th trump of Revelation, at Christ's second Coming, the resurrected Saints will meet Christ in the air and return with Him to the earth, where the Millennium will soon start, with Christ ruling it here on earth.

Satan's fake rapture, the one where Christ takes the Saints to Heaven, is impossible, because about 99% of those raptured are Jews, and there is no indication in scripture that a Jew will ever go to Heaven. The only people said to go to Heaven are those Gentiles in the present day all-Gentile Church, found ONLY on Paul's 7 epistles written AFTER Acts was completed. In the other 59 all-Israel books, the best Hope was the New Jerusalem, the all-Israel city that comes down out of the New Starry Heavens and attaches to the New Earth.

 

[n2thelight]

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven.

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

Their blood was shed on the earth, while at this time they are pleading at the altar of God in heaven. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. The time of revenge will come at God's appointed time. Before God, nobody gets away with anything.

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Did verse 9 say those that were raptured?Not!!