When was the last time you heard the word Rapture in your Church?

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Naomi25

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Naomi25 ~
First off, how I learn and study, begins with my choices and decisions, which are;
I believe in thee Lord God Almighty, One God, whose "parts" do specific things, the Scriptures are His approved information/knowledge for all men, Scriptures are all True, not every Scripture Applies to All men, there are Two understanding of Scripture (Gods and the understanding in the individual Minds of every individual man).
I believe there Is a method for mankind to receive Gods Understanding.
Well, I agree with you that God, who is Almighty, is One, but I cannot agree that he comes in 'parts' as you put it. I believe the bible clearly teaches that God, while one, is also 3 persons, functioning in perfect (thus one) harmony within the Godhead. That is why we see such specific different functions of the Father, Son and Spirit, but why they all, ultimately have a single goal.
I believe that all scripture is profitble for all men, as the bible states, for teaching, learning and reproving...for all our good works. I think that the bible holds everything God wants, and needs us to know about him, and thus if we are diligent in our study of it, we can know every essential thing in the bible, and have a pretty clear picture on the non-essential things.

I believe ALL of creation, is Gods Original Works, were all created good, and is attributed To God.
I believe "almost" ALL of Gods creations have become "corrupt".
I believe God can and does, according to; (His WAY) "make" His creations, and even Himself appointed to particular things.
(Not speaking of angels, worlds, animals, but specifically the MAN-KIND of thing that God created, that applies specifically to us.)

I believe God is Completely Holy. And that ANYthing Corrupt, MUST have a Buffer, between the Thing and Himself, for the purpose of preserving His OWN ABSOLUTE Holiness.
Yes, everything was created good, but that changed when Adam and Even sinned and fractured the creation...both earth and humanity. Mankind in now born sinful, separated from God, and only accepting Christ will restore them to God.

I'm not sure about this 'buffer' business. I suppose that buffer could be Christ himself. But on the cross, when Christ died, the curtain in the temple was torn from top to bottom, signalling that there would be no more separation between God and mankind. In Christ we now have direct access to him.

This is my premise, already decided, beforehand and necessary for me, before I read and study the word of God, also necessary for dividing the word of God, of what applies to me and that which does not.

While two People may believe the SAME knowledge IN Scripture, it does not mean the two Understand SAME way, or that the knowledge APPLIES to them the SAME.

And, I do not know what all others believe, or what they understand, or how

Next post, I will address your post.

God Bless,
Taken

I suppose it's good to understand our initial operating assumptions. It might determine whether moving forward with our other conversation will be benefitial or...not.
 

Naomi25

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..."god"...is a general term to describe "some" created thing...In short, anything can be "a god" to anyone. (Men, spirits, statues, money, sports, moon, etc.)

Thee God, I refer to is; Thee Lord God Almighty, everlasting without beginning or ending, Not created, but Thee Holy and Pure Creator.

Everthing "OF" God, IS He, Himself.
Everthing pertaining to Gods Creations, that become "changed", "MADE" changed, IS expressly BY and OF God, Given the "thing".

What God "sends" forth OUT FROM HIM, IS Him.

Where Gods "sends" "IT" (Himself) TO, is of His Choosing, at His pleasure.

What God "calls" what He sends forth out from Him, is of His Choosing, at His pleasure.

That which Gods "sends" forth out from Him,
"Appears / looks like", is of His Choosing, at His pleasure.

Gods..."APPEARENCE" is limitedly TOLD to men, While, mortal men, can not with their human eyes SEE Him, or with their human ears, Hear Him....precisely because human men have been MADE corrupt, even from their own natural birth (manifestation).

Gods "SENDS" His Life out from Him.
Gods 'SENDS" His Word out from Him.
God "SENDS" His Spirit out from Him.

God "SENDS" His Love, His strong dislike, (which is hate), His wrath, His joy, His Comfort, His Blessing, His Rewards, His Punishments, His Knowledge, His Wisdom, His Understanding, His Plan, His Directions, His Kindness, His objections, His likes, and on and on......His own Emotions...

(And MEN call these things, human traits, "humanity". As if, God had to "change" and become a HUMAN, to Himself experience such things, that He Himself has and has Created within men.)

God does not CHANGE.

He does NOT BECOME a HUMAN, to appear in the FASHION "AS" a Human.

Nor will a HUMAN, BECOME God, to be MADE to appear in the Fashion "AS" God.

The intent of God, is that men shall FREELY choose to Believe IN Him, and choose to have Him, "MAKE" them, "changed", in a Fashion, according to His Way, that is Pleasing and Acceptable TO God.

Every GOOD thing that God SENDS to manKIND, IS NOT beneficial TO an Individual man....UNTIL the individual man....is freely willing to ACCEPT what God SENDS.

To your point..."another" comforter.

Jesus, the baby, the man, the Son, the Lord, the Teacher, the Rabbi, the God with us, the comforter, the advocate, the intercessory, the Christ, on and on as He is "called"...
The Word of God....IS God.

Jesus came among men to be SEEN, of men.
Men can SEE, men, and Jesus came among men, in the BODY, God PREPARED.

Earthly men saw Him Bodily, in the Body God Prepared, and gave men Confort, for all kinds of things that ailed men. Then men Saw Him no more.

Thereafter, those same men, received Gods Comfort in a different fashion. Via God giving them something they could not see, bodily or otherwise. Something OF God given men "internally"....Gods Spirit, to Comfort men, for all kinds of things that ail men.

Same ONE God,
First gave those men Himself, His Word, in the likeness AS a man, (a flesh body, that looked like them), that SPOKE Gods Word for the ears of those human men to hear.

Secondly gave those men Himself, His Spirit, Unseen, Physically unfelt, yet with mans gift of emotions (in the likeness of God), Gods gift of His Spirit "within" a man, IS experienced by the man, though his own Emotions.

So...Was the comforter given those men...another comforter? Yes...
First given Gods Comforting Word....
Secondly given Gods Comforting Spirit...
(And to note, those men Given the Word of God and Given the Spirit of God "are" one Gift added TO another.....not one gift given "instead" (or to cancel out ) of another. )

Separate Gifts that come forth out From ONE God, Who is Life, Power, Word, Comfort, Power....etc.

It appears complicated, separating..... but I could equally give you Examples, that apply TO ONE MAN, that is the same likeness that APPLIES to Thee One God.

On this forum, your word represents YOU.
You have Named your word on this forum...
Naomi25. But yet, most people have umpteen different names and titles they are called, by Particular people, (not so called by all people). And yet your word is not SEPARATE from you, it does a particular thing. As does your muscles, your mind, your vascular system, organs, heart, soul, spirit, all have specific things that apply to those things they "do", posessively called "I, mine, me, his, hers, yours, etc.

God is no more Separated from Himself, and that which IS personally He.....then man is separated from hisself, and that which IS personally he.

(Regardless of what He is called.)

God Bless,
Taken

Okay, in attempt to shorten this dialogue I'm just going to pick a point from above and focus on it.
You say that my word represents me. And I suppose it does...it represents my thoughts and my feelings.
But...I am not God. My word does not go forth and create the heavens and earth when I think or speak it. It does not 'become flesh'.
You are trying to fit the nature and character of God into the experience and space of a human head.
No, God's 'word' is not separate from him. No one has ever said the Trinity members are separate from one another...they exits in perfect harmony. Can you imagine what that's like? Having perfect, intimate fellowship at every moment? Infitintely satisfied in one another, needing nothing else and totally glorifing in one another?
Why do you think Christ, when on the cross, under the weight of all our sin, cried out 'my God, why have you forsaken me?' For the first time in eternity, God the Father had looked away from the Son, and Christ found himself alone. For us. I think that must have been more painful to him than the physical torture that he endured for us. But, such was the price to redeem mankind. And our loving Savior paid it, and was once again restored to fellowship with the Father and Spirit.
 

Naomi25

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In short.

"EVERY" connection, teaching, speaking, communication, interaction;

BETWEEN THEE Holy and Pure God and Corrupt manKIND;

IS: INDIRECT. By and through a Buffer, a cover, a Veil, an Advocate, an Intercessory...

And THAT Buffer, Veil, Advocate, Intercessory, SHALL "REMAIN" in effect.....UNTIL such time A MAN IS "changed" and MADE "holy and pure" and Acceptable to BE, STAND, HEAR, SEE, Thee Lord God Almighty, As HE IS.

(And the being, standing, hearing, seeing, is given a willing man, in "stages").

Individual men KNOW, what stage personally applies to themselves, BY what they have personally done and God Himself has accomplished IN them.

Jesus FULFILLS, Gods Promises.

God Bless,
Taken
Jesus removed that buffer, that veil. In him we have access to God, regardless to what stage we are at. We can all come before the throne with confidence (heb 4:16).
 

Naomi25

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Gods Spirit IS part of the WHOLE of God. Gods Spirit IS Power. His Power IS His LIGHT, IS His STRENGTH, IS His CONSUMING FIRE, Thee ALL MIGHT of God; IS Thee Christ;
who IS Jesus.

God Bless,
Taken

Yes, God is spirit. Yes, God's spirit is powerful, as is God. Yes, Christ is part of all that...in the Trinity. But all that is still not The Holy Spirit, which is clearly painted as separate from God The Father, and The Son. The Spirit is spoken of as a 'he', he's spoken of as a personality, with a role, with feelings. Much more work has to be done to prove he is just God, than to say so, I'm sorry, when scripture takes such care to list, multiple times, the three members of the Trinity in the same sentence. Seems odd, don't you think, for the writers of scripture to say, 'God, God and God,'...if that's what they really are...?
 

Hidden In Him

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Conflating the Sixth Seal with Armageddon, is a very obvious error. They have nothing in common, except many will die in both.
The Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event to happen. It will be a worldwide disaster, but Armageddon is just in the Megiddo valley of Israel.
So saying that I'm wrong, is kind of silly of you.

Please respond to my questions and the passages I cite. You tend to evade.

1. Interpret in their fulness Joel 3:14-16 and Jeremiah 25:30-33 according to your system.
2. Cite passages to support years separation between the sun and moon darkening and the Battle of Armageddon.
3. Explain how Jeremiah 25:33 is congruent with a marriage supper setting.
4. How long from Armageddon until the marriage supper? Days? Weeks? Months?
 

Naomi25

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...Person...person in its most basic understanding applies to earthly human man-KIND of created thing.

God "communicating" with manKIND, sent forth a ...

Semantics. I'm sorry, but it really seems like you're reaching here.

BODY, prepared of God
A BODY THAT, was prepared in the IMAGE, AS a representation of a Human man's Look.
A BODY THAT, is EXPRESSLY, prepared to Demonstrate and Communicate TO Man-KIND.

And YET, IS THEE Power that Upholds, IS THEE brightness of Gods Glory.

God is NOT Human, NOT created, and NOT out OF the Earth.

God is WHOLLY ONE GOD, yet gives men things out from Him, in increments, bit by bit, in a fashion, and manner, according to Gods pleasure, according to to WHEN a man is ABLE and WILLING to receive such things....as God has prepared the man TO receive such things.

God Bless,
Taken

The bible says that God became man. Better men than you and I have struggled to understand how that could be, exactly, but the bible cleary says it. I'm sorry if that upsets your world view...but there it is. He didn't just zip up a human meat suit over top his God interior. He became man. That was the whole point of the incarnation. So that we would have a great high priest who could truly understand and be a true intercesor for us.
 

Helen

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One thing you folks might want to consider is the great tribulation being long past. It was a Jewish tribulation centered on Jerusalem in 70 AD. But great tribulation also spans the entire New Covenant era for the Church via the Antichrist. First Nero, then clearly identified by the historic creeds as the Papacy from the tenth century until the French Revolution.

Jesus told the apostles to leave Jerusalem saying "when you see the abomination of desolation". "You" is second person, present tense plural meaning it applied to them and not us.


Sounds good...and I hope that you are correct. :)

BTW I like your new avatar.
 
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Naomi25

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It was Jesus, presented in a BODY prepared of God.
It was THAT PURE BODY, given for the Purpose, to DIE, "paying our price for sin, of our CORRUPT BODY'S".
And His pure BLOOD, given for the Purpose, of Forgiveness.

Our Corrupt bodies, Our Blood (ie the life of our bodies,)is Still required of God, TO DIE, because they ARE corrupt.

Something CORRUPT, is not sufficient to PAY for something that is PURE.

Jesus' BODY, is Gods "offering" to us, FOR Benefit, TO accept or not.

Jesus' BODY, is ALSO a precise EXAMPLE, FOR mankind, To oberve, To hear, To experience, To write about, To testify thereof, To speak about, To spread their experiences, To believe, and To spread His words, among OTHER men.....that they may also believe.

AND also, accept His Offering, or not.



An example for us....for what He taught, Woud also Apply to mankind, IF they trust to believe in Him and Give Him the Authority to MAKE us like Him.



Ofcourse it was "physical".
He came in MANS "likeness". Mankind is "physical".

Our becoming "MADE" "changed", does not "change" us into a "spriit". A man accepting what God CAN MAKE us become...."makes" us HAVE A NEW SPIRIT, not become A SPIRIT.

I think you totally missed my point. Let me take a step backwards and explain a little more carefully:
Yes, Jesus, in his first body, was pure, as was his spirit. However, after his death, he had a NEW body.
Christians, after accepting Christ, are giving a new spirit. It's still not perfect and sin free, however. We await the resurrection, where our spirits will be made sin free and our bodies will be made new.
Paul tells us that at this time, our new bodies will be (like the one Christ now has) a 'spiritual' body. Now, when he says spiritual, he's not talking incoporeal. He's talking of the nature of them, the promise of how they will be...atuned, I suppose we could say, with our Lord. But they will still be very physical.

What I have learned, is AS LONG as there ARE living mortal men, The BODY of Jesus, is necessary, when it is necessary for mortal men to SEE Him....
(Teaching of men, face to face, Rising up of mortal bodies, sentencing of mortal bodies, 1,000 yr reign, etc.)
And Appears, after all who are going to, DO become immortal, THEY shall be able to SEE Him, AS HE IS, which personally I don't think, AS HE IS, is BODILY....but rather Spirit.



Earth was created FOR;
To bring forth mankind out of the earth.
And FOR:
Earth to BE mankinds habitat.

God has numerous times, APPEARED to mankind, IN A FASHION, a man could comprehend. Several times He appeared AS A MAN.

Men make their own appearences....in a fashion, as they determine,, others can immediately comprehend their intent.
( Like if you appeared at a funeral; in a flashy hot pink outfit, low cut top and mini skirt and thigh high boots, a clown suit and wig and makeup, or a plain black dress or slacks....
Your intent would be revealed ) eh?

I assume nothing. Well, dealing with men, I assume, because I already know, they do not know ALL things.
But concerning Spiritual things, assuming is guessing, and I am of the belief, God desires us to KNOW, His Truth, and His Understanding, and that is what I am always after.
(That was what was meant, by David being after Gods own Heart....Gods Truth and Gods Understanding. David a man, God Himself MADE a KING, to be seated IN AN everlasting throne.....I find as an Excellent example, and extremely Acceptable of God).
And BTW a promise made to ALL men, WHO are after and obtain, Gods Truth and Gods Understanding, that they also shall Sit with the Lord God, in His everlasting throne.

Remembering Jesus CAME to Earth, as a MAN, "without His Power". While on Earth, bit by bit, His POWER is comes unto Him, and is revealed through His Works and Miracles.
Also it is by Gods POWER, that a man realizes Jesus IS THEE Christ. Scripture tells us Christ IS the Power of God.

Yes, Bodily, from whence "HIS" body came, and with POWER, from whence HIS power came....Returns to Heaven.

This is just silly. What "appears"....returns from whence it came.
Once Jesus' BODY and Power departed the earth.....As men trust to Believe in Jesus (as those men did), as men trust to Believe Jesus is the Christ (as those men did), as men trust to Believe Jesus died and was risen up by Gods Spiritual Power, (as those men did)....
Men receive Gods Spirit (as those men did).

Jesus' BODY was offered, thereafter, one who accepts His bodily offering, His "indwelling" Spirit is given.
The scriptures reveal, His Body and His "indwelling" Spirit were not offered or given at the SAME TIME.

Everything is According to Gods Design, Order, Way....not ours.

God Bless,
Taken

You say you don't assume, but there seems to me that you do a great deal of it.
I am coming to see that you percieve things by such a different light than I do that I do not think we will ever see eye to eye.
You seem so bent on this notion that Christ's 'incarnate' form was so a holy God could wander his sinful flock, that I worry you miss the truth of the whole point of why Jesus took on flesh. I was necessary in God's plan that he become human. Fully human. If you take away that, you take away a big chunk of the amazing grace of the gospel and redemptive plan.
I also struggle to see how you cannot see the three persons within the Godhead. It is clear the Father and the Son are separate persons...unless we somehow think it is feasible for God to sit "at his own right hand". And again, we delve into personality disorder range if we believe The Spirit and the Son are the same as well...quite apart from the different personality and task traits scripture gives us about them.
Regardless...I don't suppose I'll change your mind, and you will centainly not change mine...not on this point. I like to remain open on other things, but on these two...no way. Christianity has to be founded on certain things. These, I believe, are two, and cannot be bent.
 

Keraz

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Please respond to my questions and the passages I cite. You tend to evade.

1. Interpret in their fulness Joel 3:14-16 and Jeremiah 25:30-33 according to your system.
2. Cite passages to support years separation between the sun and moon darkening and the Battle of Armageddon.
3. Explain how Jeremiah 25:33 is congruent with a marriage supper setting.
4. How long from Armageddon until the marriage supper? Days? Weeks? Months?
I tend to keep my posts as short as possible, but when discussing these issues with someone like yourself, who has already decided what God will do in the end times, then no matter what I say, you will reject it.

1/ Both these prophesies refer to the Day of the Lord's wrath.
2/ The sequence of Revelation proves it. Also the moon will shine blood red on the Day of wrath; darkened at the Return.
3/ It isn't.
4/ We simply are not told this. Have you any idea?
 

Taken

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Well, I agree with you that God, who is Almighty, is One, but I cannot agree that he comes in 'parts' as you put it. I believe the bible clearly teaches that God, while one, is also 3 persons, functioning in perfect (thus one) harmony within the Godhead. That is why we see such specific different functions of the Father, Son and Spirit, but why they all, ultimately have a single goal.
I believe that all scripture is profitble for all men, as the bible states, for teaching, learning and reproving...for all our good works. I think that the bible holds everything God wants, and needs us to know about him, and thus if we are diligent in our study of it, we can know every essential thing in the bible, and have a pretty clear picture on the non-essential things.

Parts...Persons...Scripture says neither....just teaching methods.

We were created in his Likeness......and if someone were to try and teach PEOPLE are three persons in one....to me that is weird...
Yet we do have body, soul and spirit......
And parts called, brains, feet, hands, head, blah, blah.


I'm not sure about this 'buffer' business. I suppose that buffer could be Christ himself. But on the cross, when Christ died, the curtain in the temple was torn from top to bottom, signalling that there would be no more separation between God and mankind. In Christ we now have direct access to him.

Buffer, veil, cover, curtain...all designed to conceal
...
I do believe the "secrecy" of God as hidden behind the veil in the holy of holies, was opened.
Also things that were not known were revealed....
But that God Himself is not seen by men, yet walked among men, in a body in the fashion as a man, prepared of God....

If you think otherwise, okay by me.

I suppose it's good to understand our initial operating assumptions. It might determine whether moving forward with our other conversation will be benefitial or...not.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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Okay, in attempt to shorten this dialogue I'm just going to pick a point from above and focus on it.
You say that my word represents me. And I suppose it does...it represents my thoughts and my feelings.
But...I am not God. My word does not go forth and create the heavens and earth when I think or speak it. It does not 'become flesh'.
You are trying to fit the nature and character of God into the experience and space of a human head.

Merely a parallel.
Often how God Himself taught men....by using something they were familiar with as example and parallels.

Your word comes out of your mouth....
So did Gods.
You have named your word on this forum...
God Named His Word.
Gods word that came forth out of His mouth;
...Gods own Power caused to be made flesh.
Whoops...you can't do that....yes we know.
There are things God can do that we can't.

No, God's 'word' is not separate from him.

WAIT.....huh? Where did you get that?

No one has ever said the Trinity members are separate from one another...

What are you responding to?

God Bless,
Taken
 

Hidden In Him

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I tend to keep my posts as short as possible, but when discussing these issues with someone like yourself, who has already decided what God will do in the end times, then no matter what I say, you will reject it.

Despite having strong foundations for the things I believe, I'm actually quite open-minded in certain respects. Keeping your posts short regarding your positions, however, won't go very far in convincing me.

But let's lay this one to rest (for now).
 

Taken

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Jesus removed that buffer, that veil. In him we have access to God, regardless to what stage we are at. We can all come before the throne with confidence (heb 4:16).

Have you SEEN God?

You should have clearly understood that is what I was speaking about.

WE all have access?
Men Against God do not.
They have Access to the Lord Jesus, who IS the "advocate, buffer, go-between".

WE have access AFTER going through the Advocate.

"WE" is subjective.

Discussing scripture is not simple, particularly on a forum, in depth, and I am on my phone.
Personaly pronouns can scripturally apply to those Converted or not.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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Yes, God is spirit. Yes, God's spirit is powerful, as is God. Yes, Christ is part of all that...in the Trinity. But all that is still not The Holy Spirit, which is clearly painted as separate from God The Father, and The Son. The Spirit is spoken of as a 'he', he's spoken of as a personality, with a role, with feelings. Much more work has to be done to prove he is just God, than to say so, I'm sorry, when scripture takes such care to list, multiple times, the three members of the Trinity in the same sentence. Seems odd, don't you think, for the writers of scripture to say, 'God, God and God,'...if that's what they really are...?

If you try to figure out the Understanding of Gods Word, in your MIND...its a fail.

God 1:26
And God said, Let "US" make man in "OUR" image, after "OUR" likeness...

What did God "make", without ....
1) his thought
2) his word
3) his power

?

Gen 1:1
....Gods thought revealed....Creation
Gen 1:2
....Spirit of God moving...
Gen 1:3
....Gods Word Said

The same is repeated throughout Scripture.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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Semantics. I'm sorry, but it really seems like you're reaching here.

The bible says that God became man.

Please recite this Bible book, chapter, verse for me?

Better men than you and I have struggled to understand how that could be, exactly, but the bible cleary says it. I'm sorry if that upsets your world view...but there it is.

Recite that CLEAR point....as you said "God became man".

He didn't just zip up a human meat suit over top his God interior.

Wow, how immature. No one said that, and even saying something so childish is out of line in a discussion about the Lord.

He became man.

Three times you have said this was clearly IN scrpture....

Please provide the scripture.


God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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I think you totally missed my point. Let me take a step backwards and explain a little more carefully:
Yes, Jesus, in his first body, was pure, as was his spirit. However, after his death, he had a NEW body.

Disagree.
Phil 2:6

Christians, after accepting Christ, are giving a new spirit. It's still not perfect and sin free, however.

Disagree
1 Pet 1:23

We await the resurrection, where our spirits will be made sin free and our bodies will be made new.

Disagree
1 Pet 1:23

Paul tells us that at this time, our new bodies will be (like the one Christ now has) a 'spiritual' body. Now, when he says spiritual, he's not talking incoporeal. He's talking of the nature of them, the promise of how they will be...atuned, I suppose we could say, with our Lord. But they will still be very physical.

Bodies, souls, spirits are not the same things.

You say you don't assume, but there seems to me that you do a great deal of it.

It appears to me, you do not consider learning step by step what exactly occurs, and then mix what applies to one thing, to another thing, and call things that are not those things.

Body's die and become raised and glorified.
Souls are restored.
Spirits are born again with Gods Seed.

I am not waiting for my "spirit" to become SIN FREE.....It already IS.

I am coming to see that you percieve things by such a different light than I do that I do not think we will ever see eye to eye.

Totally agree.

You seem so bent on this notion that Christ's 'incarnate' form was so a holy God could wander his sinful flock, that I worry you miss the truth of the whole point of why Jesus took on flesh. I was necessary in God's plan that he become human. Fully human.If you take away that, you take away a big chunk of the amazing grace of the gospel and redemptive plan.

I have not objected to calling Jesus a man...

What you clearly call him is A HUMAN.

Seriously, you think the Lord Jesus, came out of the EARTH?

Or that HUMANS came forth out from Heaven?

Scripture CLEARLY teaches.
1) God was IN Heaven
2) Jesus came forth out from God.


I also struggle to see how you cannot see the three persons within the Godhead. It is clear the Father and the Son are separate persons...unless we somehow think it is feasible for God to sit "at his own right hand". And again, we delve into personality disorder range if we believe The Spirit and the Son are the same as well...quite apart from the different personality and task traits scripture gives us about them.
Regardless...I don't suppose I'll change your mind, and you will centainly not change mine...not on this point. I like to remain open on other things, but on these two...no way. Christianity has to be founded on certain things. These, I believe, are two, and cannot be bent.

The Problem...

"Separate persons"
"God to sit on his own right Hand"
"Personality disorder"
"Change your mind"
"Meat suit"

I'm trying to speak to you of holy and spriitual things, and you are speaking of MINDFUL and silly Worldly things.

I speak of THEE Lord God Almighty....and you somehow conclude that does not speak of the Godhead, because I do not call THEE Lord God Almighty "persons'.

Seems we are done.
I have an agenda going after Gods Understanding.....and you appear content with MINDful understanding.

Please read... Rom 8:7 (a)

Maybe you will figure out how the silly words you use when discussing spiritual things, is a glaring clue, we are not on the same page.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Keraz

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I wanted to do something kind for everyone on the forum.....I put all of Gismy's rapture threads here in one location for you to read and catch up on.....it starts with the oldest to the newest.
I thought that I was doing something good for everyone here with my post #48, that totally refuted any 'rapture to heaven' of the Church. Gismys has very strong convictions, but they are sadly misplaced.
Here is my article again,
The Bible does tell us about people going to live in heaven. There has been a few special cases; like Elijah and just before Jesus Returns, the two witnesses will be resurrected and taken to heaven.

But any prophecy of a general ‘rapture to heaven’ of the Church in the end times, cannot to be found in the Bible.

The prophecy of Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, is about the Return of Jesus, when He will gather those faithful Christians who remain alive then. Proved by Matthew 24:30-31 It will be a transportation from where they are on earth, to where Jesus is: in the clouds, then to Jerusalem. NOT a spiritual change for them as yet.


There is no scripture that says there will be a ‘rapture’, but there is plenty saying such a thing is impossible:

John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there.

John 7:34 Where I go, you cannot come....

John 8:21-23 Your home is on earth......

John 17:15 I do not pray for You to take My followers out of the world, but keep them from the evil one.

Revelation 2:25-26 Hold fast to what you have until I Return. To those who are Victorious, to those who persevere in doing My will until the end, I will give them authority over the nations. Revelation 5:9-10


We will all be here to face the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath:

Luke 21:35....that Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over.

Jeremiah 25:29...I am summoning a Sword against all the inhabitants of the earth.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8 There is no gift you lack, while you wait expectantly for Jesus to Return. He will keep you firm in your faith until the end.......


We Christians will be the people God always wanted in the holy Land:

Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.

Zechariah 8:7-8 I am about to rescue My people and bring them back to Zion. They will be My people and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 34:11-16 I will search for My sheep from where they are scattered on the Day of cloud and disaster. They will settle in Israel and become prosperous.

Romans 9:24-26 We [Christians] are God’s people, called out of Jew and Gentile.

You were not My people, now I call you My people and the unloved; beloved. In the same place, [in the holy Land] where Israel was told; you are no longer My people, you will be called; the Sons of the Living God.


I know how the teaching of a ‘rapture’ has permeated the Church, For many, it is the only end times scenario they have heard, so for those Christians, it is very difficult to consider another outcome.

But serious thought must be given to the scriptures presented above and know that many pastors and Bible scholars dispute the validity of a ‘rapture.

Why want to go to heaven? We have an incredible destiny awaiting us here, where we belong.
 

Heart2Soul

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I thought that I was doing something good for everyone here with my post #48, that totally refuted any 'rapture to heaven' of the Church. Gismys has very strong convictions, but they are sadly misplaced.
It was somewhat of a pun.....I suppose for newcomers it may prove to be an interesting topic for debate....for those who have been here awhile are probably done with that merry-go-round. I have read many of your posts on CF concerning prophesy and end times....some I have agreed with others not so much but it works both ways.
 

Jay Ross

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It was somewhat of a pun.....I suppose for newcomers it may prove to be an interesting topic for debate....for those who have been here awhile are probably done with that merry-go-round. I have read many of your posts on CF concerning prophesy and end times....some I have agreed with others not so much but it works both ways.

I assume that CF is Christianity Forum?
 
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