When was the Psalm 2:7 decree spoken to Meshiah?

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dak

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When did the Father speak the decree of Psalm 2:7 to the Meshiah or Christos, His Anointed One?

Psalms 2:7 KJV
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1:5 KJV
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 5:4-5 KJV
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
 

Rockerduck

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The Psalmist wrote this to describe Christ's reign on Earth and the coronation of the King of Kings, Jesus Christ. Yahweh proclaims this several times in the New Testament. When the Psalmist wrote it is a moot point. All the Psalms were written between 1440 bc beginning with Moses and ending 586 bc at the Babylonian captivity.
 

dak

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The Psalmist wrote this to describe Christ's reign on Earth and the coronation of the King of Kings, Jesus Christ. Yahweh proclaims this several times in the New Testament.

Where and when did He speak the words to Meshiah? Any scripture quotes?

When the Psalmist wrote it is a moot point. All the Psalms were written between 1440 bc beginning with Moses and ending 586 bc at the Babylonian captivity.

Okay, but what about the question in the OP?
 

Rockerduck

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Question: Do you believe Paul wrote the epistle to the Hebrews?
I believe Paul greatly influenced the writer so much I'd give Paul the majority credit. However, the Greek it was written in was of a higher degree of education, which matches Dr. Luke's writings in Luke and Acts. So, likely it was a sermon of Paul's that was written down by Dr. Luke. I believe the "Faith Chapter" was not Paul's but one of his companions, like Apollos, who could argue eloquently. So without naming anyone as a writer, the Hebrews letter was powerful on its own to be added to the bible. So, yes, I think the Apostle Paul's name should be on the letter if only because of the Pauline doctrine contained in it.
 
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dak

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I believe Paul greatly influenced the writer so much I'd give Paul the majority credit. However, the Greek it was written in was of a higher degree of education, which matches Dr. Luke's writings in Luke and Acts. So, likely it was a sermon of Paul's that was written down by Dr. Luke. I believe the "Faith Chapter" was not Paul's but one of his companions, like Apollos, who could argue eloquently. So without naming anyone as a writer, the Hebrews letter was powerful on its own to be added to the bible. So, yes, I think the Apostle Paul's name should be on the letter if only because of the Pauline doctrine contained in it.

Your final statement is most important: for what if "Luke", (a.k.a. "the Physician"), is actually one of Paul's scribes? (or, as they say, amanuensis), like Tertius for the book of Romans? There is also strong evidence that the Gospel now called Luke may actually be the written Gospel account of Paul, (written through Luke, his scribe?), which he quotes from essentially verbatim to the Corinthians, (1Cor 11:23-25). I have touched on this in the thread Paul's Gospel, but even if this high probability is incorrect we still have the fact that the Gospel of Luke is still, for all intents and purposes, the Gospel of Paul.

So we have the Gospel of Luke and the Epistle to the Hebrews reflecting the same Gospel as Paul's Gospel, and we have also the book of Acts which is in the same category as the Gospel of Luke, then we have the Gospel of Paul preached in the remainder of his Epistles. Thus we have not three but four mentions of the Psalm 2:7 decree in writings either from Paul or directly related to him.

The first account is the Codex Bezae version of the Luke immersion account:

Luke 3:22 Codex Bezae (D) Uncial Text
luke322-bezea.png

Luke 3:22 Codex Bezae (D) Uncial Text
22 ΚΑΙ ΚΑΤΑΒΗΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΝΕΥΜΑ ΤΟ ΑΓΙΟΝ ϹΩΜΑΤΙΚΩ ΕΙΔΕΙ ΩϹ ΠΕΡΙϹΤΕΡΑΝ ΕΙϹ ΑΥΤΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΦΩΝΗΝ ΕΚ ΤΟΥ ΟΥΡΑΝΟΥ ΓΕΝΕϹΘΑΙ ΫΙΟϹ ΜΟΥ ΕΙ ϹΥ ΕΓΩ ϹΗΜΕΡΟΝ ΓΕΓΕΝΝΗΚΑ ϹΕ

ΫΙΟϹ ΜΟΥ ΕΙ ϹΥ ΕΓΩ ϹΗΜΕΡΟΝ ΓΕΓΕΝΝΗΚΑ ϹΕ
You are My Son: this day I have begotten you

Luke 3:22 Codex Bezae (D) Minuscule Transcript
22 και καταβηναι το πνευμα το αγιον σωματικω ειδει ως περιστεραν εις αυτον και φωνην εκ του ουρανου γενεσθαι ϋιος μου ει συ εγω σημερον γεγεννηκα σε

ϋιος μου ει συ εγω σημερον γεγεννηκα σε
You are My Son: this day I have begotten you

Moreover what follows in the Luke account is that the Meshiah, being full of the holy Spirit, immediately goes into the wilderness for forty days to fast and pray and be tested/tempted by the Devil. Then, when the Devil left him, we read the following, again, for all intents and purposes, the Gospel of Paul.

Luke 4:14-21 KJV
14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord [Adonai YHWH, Isa 61:1] is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

The above no doubt speaks of the Meshiah, the Christos or Christ, the Anointed One: a man born of the seed of David according to the flesh, according to Paul's Gospel. Then we have also the Psalm 2:7 decree mentioned three more times: Acts 13:33, and the two instances from Heb 1:5 and 5:5.

The Codez Bezae version of Luke 3:22 is also found in a few of the older Latin texts which remain: the evidence for the timing of the decree spoken by the Father to the Anointed One, (which was at the immersion according to Bezae), is still there but getting harder and harder to find as time goes on.
 
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dak

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The following page has many proofs, including from patristic sources, statements, and arguments from very early on, from their own mouths, (the so-called church fathers), which reveal that it is highly likely that the Psalm 2:7 decree was also originally contained in the Gospel now known as Matthew. If Acts and Hebrews both speak of the decree, and plainly state that it was spoken to the Meshiah, then it had to be referring to some place in the Gospel accounts, which are the only places we find the Father speaking to His Chosen One from the heavens.

One of those places was Luke 3:22 and the other was very likely in the Matthew immersion account. It did not happen in eternity past or eternity future, (such as after the resurrection as some maintain), because scripture does not work that way: the writers of holy writ do not make bold claims about something that they really have no clue about whether it actually happened or not. It happened in the Gospel accounts in the immersion narratives.

 
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When did the Father speak the decree of Psalm 2:7 to the Meshiah or Christos, His Anointed One?

Psalms 2:7 KJV
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1:5 KJV
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 5:4-5 KJV
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
everyday! eternally!

same as heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Christ is the eternally begotten son and of God!

thks
 

dak

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everyday! eternally!

That is your answer to the question? The Father begets the Meshiah "everyday eternally"?
No need to even try to refute opinions having a 100% lack of evidence.

same as heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

No, that is not the same.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Irrelevant to the question.

Christ is the eternally begotten son and of God!

Prove it with scripture: I do not accept church traditions a.k.a. the traditions of men.
 
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That is your answer to the question? The Father begets the Meshiah "everyday eternally"?
No need to even try to refute opinions having a 100% lack of evidence.



No, that is not the same.



Irrelevant to the question.



Prove it with scripture: I do not accept church traditions a.k.a. the traditions of men.
Prove it with scripture: I do not accept church traditions a.k.a. the traditions of men.

scripture requires you too!

scripture supports the church founded by Christ and His teaching authority

the decrees and anathemas of apostolic councils are binding on all christians mt 16:18-19 mt 18:18

submit to your local bishop who has governance of the church, scripture, and the faith revealed by Christ, and is the only authorized teacher of the local faithful

the apostles / bishops have the same mission power and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

thks
 

dak

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Five posts in a row?

Prove it with scripture: I do not accept church traditions a.k.a. the traditions of men.

scripture requires you too!

scripture supports the church founded by Christ and His teaching authority

the decrees and anathemas of apostolic councils are binding on all christians mt 16:18-19 mt 18:18

submit to your local bishop who has governance of the church, scripture, and the faith revealed by Christ, and is the only authorized teacher of the local faithful

the apostles / bishops have the same mission power and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

thks

more?

Prove it with scripture: I do not accept church traditions a.k.a. the traditions of men.

scripture is tradition 2 thes 2:15

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

there is no canon of scripture apart from the holy apostolic church decided and decreed at the apostolic council of rome 381-2

thks

more?

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Sent by Christ with His authority

Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21

Ministry

Mal 1:11
Acts 1:8
acts 1:15-26
Acts 2:38-39
Rom 15:16
1 Tim 3:1-2
1 Tim 4:14
Phil 1:1
James 5:14

God always establishes peace and order in His kingdom by obedience to the hierarchical authority of the fathers who care for our souls!

Jn 20:21
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Lk 22:29
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 13:11
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

1 cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Matt 28:19 teach & sanctify all men unto eternal salvation.

Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, (apostles) who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, (apostles) and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Obedience of the faithful Christians as opposed to spiritual anarchy!

thks

more?

"the bible is the only authority"?

no cos without the apostolic authority we don't have any authority to know what is and what is not scripture

scripture often has multiple plausible interpretations or meanings but does not tell us which is true and which is error

the apostolic church is commanded to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! mt 28:19

thks

more?

The church is an extension of Christ!

Mt 16:18-19 Jn 10:16 Gal 4:16
one true church!

Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20
matt 6:33
matt 16:18-19
matt 18:17
matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
acts 1:8
acts 2:42
acts 16:17
acts 17:18
the apostolic church commanded to teach, sanctify, and govern!
same ministry, power, and authority as Christ!

If you believe scripture you would believe the teaching of the apostolic church which alone possesses the authority of Jesus Christ in union with Jesus Christ! matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18:19 Jn 20:21-23 acts 1:1-8

Christ is the light! (Truth)
Jn 8:12

The church he founded is also the light as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 5:14

Christ is the teacher!
Heb 1:1-3

The church He founded is also our teacher as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 18:17

Christ is the truth!
Jn 14:6

Must Hear Christ!
matt 3:17

Must hear the Church!
Matt 18:17 matt 28:19 acts 1:8

The church He founded is also the pillar of truth as an extension and command of Christ! 1 tim 3:15

The gates of hell SHALL NOT prevail against the one, holy, Catholics,
& apostolic church founded by Christ on peter and the apostles!
Matt 16:18-19

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach & sanctify all men unto eternal salvation of all men! matt 28:19-20

Christ and His church are one: Acts 9:4 mystical communion: eph 5:32


Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

thks

Great, another thread destroyer.

None of this is on topic and, in fact, it's all an obvious attempt to change the topic to RCC dogma and their fraudulent claims to authority and superiority. If this is the way you need to treat people in order to force your message out at my expense you will certainly fail to convince me of anything you say about your new topic for my thread, dear hater.
 

PS95

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When did the Father speak the decree of Psalm 2:7 to the Meshiah or Christos, His Anointed One?

Psalms 2:7 KJV
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1:5 KJV
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 5:4-5 KJV
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
The bible says Ps 2:7 was fulfilled when Jesus was raised from the dead. Act 13:33
IOW- He was officially declared to be God's Son- or made known.

He was firstborn from the dead. Col 1:18- a sort of first fruits- and the One who guarantees resurrection life for everyone who belongs to Him.
Obviously, Jesus was already God's Son before He rose. -Jesus said he was and so did the Father.

Why do you ask?
 
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dak

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The bible says Ps 2:7 was fulfilled when Jesus was raised from the dead. Act 13:33
IOW- He was officially declared to be God's Son- or made known.

The reading of Acts 13:33 within its context is, on your part, a simple confusion between being raised up to preach the good news and being raised up from the dead.

He was firstborn from the dead. Col 1:18- a sort of first fruits- and the One who guarantees resurrection life for everyone who belongs to Him.

Agreed.

Obviously, Jesus was already God's Son before He rose. -Jesus said he was and so did the Father.

Which Son? The Logos is the one and only one-of-a-kind Son who is ever in the bosom of the Father, and is eternal, for He is the Word of the Father: and the Father has never been without His Word. The Meshiah or Christos is the Chosen One, the Anointed one, while the Logos-Word of the Father is the very Anointing upon the Anointed One.

Why do you ask?

So that I and whoever else wants to can discuss it with the scripture as our guide.
 

PS95

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The reading of Acts 13:33 within its context is, on your part, a simple confusion between being raised up to preach the good news and being raised up from the dead.
No confusion. It says what it says. The Psalm was fulfilled when the Lord rose. That is what it says. It's clear as can be.
Paul affirmed it- Romans 1:4

1Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
He is called the Son of God for various reasons.
- In Luke 1:35 at
conception- "for this reason He will be called the Son of God"
-On account of his resurrection. - Acts 13:33, Ro 1:4
-Firstborn from the dead- Col 1:18 and Rev
-
God sent His Son- John 3:16-17
:gd
Which Son? The Logos is the one and only one-of-a-kind Son who is ever in the bosom of the Father, and is eternal, for He is the Word of the Father: and the Father has never been without His Word. The Meshiah or Christos is the Chosen One, the Anointed one, while the Logos-Word of the Father is the very Anointing upon the Anointed One.
Which Son? Are you Christadelphian or one of the others here who denies that Jesus is the Word who became flesh?
I agree The Word is eternal, and that Word became flesh and dwelt among us= Jesus who came down from heaven.
Jesus said so, so did John the Baptist, and Paul in Philippians...etc
You seem to deny them.




So that I and whoever else wants to can discuss it with the scripture as our guide.
I see. It would be futile to discuss further if you deny Jesus came down from heaven and is the Word of God who became flesh and dwelt among us . Big mistake from the starting line.
 
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dak

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Which Son? Are you Christadelphian or one of the others here who denies that Jesus is the Word who became flesh?
I agree The Word is eternal, and that Word became flesh and dwelt among us= Jesus who came down from heaven.
Jesus said so, so did John the Baptist, and Paul in Philippians...etc
You seem to deny them.
I see. It would be futile to discuss further if you deny Jesus came down from heaven and is the Word of God who became flesh and dwelt among us . Big mistake from the starting line.

You either believe the Testimony of the Master or you do not.

 

Wick Stick

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When did the Father speak the decree of Psalm 2:7 to the Meshiah or Christos, His Anointed One?

Psalms 2:7 KJV
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1:5 KJV
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 5:4-5 KJV
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Matthew 3:17½

Luke 3:22½
 
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