When we are born.

[marks]

(renewing the mind as your catch phrase states)

My 'catch phrase'??



God's Word.

Romans 12:1-2 KJV
1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Hear the Word.

 

[marks]

but by us receiving, by the working of God with us, The Holy Ghost.

So here's the key question.,

Have you receive the Holy Spirit?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Our mind is part of the problem, as it too is carnal and fleshly for the carnal mind is at enmity with God.

That's the mind of the flesh. Stop identifying with the mind of the flesh if you have been born again.

Renewing the mind is about coming to think in the mind of the Spirit. The new you. OH! We're back to the OP. You were born a baby from Adam, and had to grow up.

Being reborn is being from from God, and we still have to grow up.

Our growing up in God is described in terms of putting off the old and putting on the new, and of our renewing our minds.

This, renewing the mind, it's not giving some "mental ascent" to something you aren't, or don't rely one, as if we're playing pattycakes. It's real or it's not.

If you don't believe, telling yourself something will be meaningless. No, it's meaningless if there is no new creation, if you aren't born again.

Maybe this may help.

Believing you are a human child of Adam isn't lying to yourself. And it's not what makes such a thing true. Either you were born into humanity or you weren't. You don't become a human by telling yourself you are a human. But unless you recognize your humanity, you are not living in reality.

Believing you are a child of God doesn't make it happen. God must recreate you first. And having been recreated, you are accepting what is real by acknowledging it.

It's a cart and horse thing.

As The Quote from Tozer stated You want to deprive the Believer of any repentance, Obedience and cross carrying, thus making Spirituality a wholly mental acknowledgment of a certain set of facts without living those doctrines.

As the quote from God states, this is how we live pure lives.

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Do you want to live a pure life?

This is how. Have this hope.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

My 'catch phrase'??



God's Word.

Romans 12:1-2 KJV
1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Hear the Word.

To You, "renewing the mind" means exactly the opposite of the intent of this verse. Renewing your mind is part of conforming to the will of God, It is about cross carrying and sacrifice, and Holiness, a part of the sanctification process. To You it is a turning on of a switch, a logical conclusion agreed upon, A form of self deception that says we have all we need if we only believe hard enough. That is what I mean by it being your catch Phrase. We believe with our heart, not with our mind. (Romans 10:9) Do You know the difference?

Apparently, you cannot handle criticism constructive or otherwise. Seeing as I have placed you into your "defensive shell" and you are unable to interact without adversity and are unable to see the contrarian point of view any longer without animosity and seeing it as an attack then it is not worth commenting with you.

1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

This is what progressive sanctification Is.
Justification: I have been saved from the penalty of sin. This is the identity we have in Him that 1 John 3:1-3 is speaking of (What we are now)
Sanctification: I am being saved from the power of sin. This is the Purification 1 John 3:1-3 is speaking of (The process by which we arrive at glorification.)
Glorification: I will be saved from the presence of sin. This is the Hope 1 John 3:1-3 is speaking of (What we shall be)

We make a choice to be sanctified or not to be sanctified.... The first thing that leads to being made pure is the is seeing that we need to be made pure, Your theology denies this. It says we are pure already, which in itself is not wrong for we have the atonement of the blood of Christ covering us, But we also have the Holy Ghost at work in us making our vessel pure, Making our bodies a living sacrifice Holy and acceptable unto God.

 

[marks]

Sanctification: I am being saved from the power of sin.

Your words ^

God's Word:


Romans 6:5-7 KJV
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Romans 6:8-11 KJV
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Romans 6:12-16 KJV
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Romans 6:17-23 KJV
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God's teaching is clearly that we are already from from sin. Justified, innocent, reborn, righteous.

Now we are to learn to live that way.

Romans 12:1-2 KJV
1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

To You, "renewing the mind" means exactly the opposite of the intent of this verse.

Hardly! Actually, not at all.

Renewing the mind is learning what God did when He justified you. Learning what this means for your live. Believing it, and implementing this new understanding so that you can stop feeling tied to your flesh, thinking you have to go on sinning, that sin retains some power over you, and start living free, since you've been set free.

The door can be open, but you won't go through it if you don't think it is. You can be free from sin, but if you think sin still has power over you, then that thinking is what needs to be changed.

If someone thinks sin has power over them, that they are under sin's dominion, either their thinking is off, and that's not true, or it is true.

And the Bible says it's not true. So that leaves the thinking.

Much love!

 

[marks]

To You it is a turning on of a switch, a logical conclusion agreed upon, A form of self deception that says we have all we need if we only believe hard enough.

No, no, no. A hundred times no. 1000 times, if you keep repeating this falsehood.

Accepting the reality of What God Did when we were born from Him is not a self deception, that "produces through my believing" what I need.

No.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

My believing doesn't "produce" anything. You're not believing doesn't change it either. The reality is plainly spelled out.

He - not we - He has given us by His divine power all things that pertain to life, and to godliness.

You can accept this is true. You can reject the truth of this. But this is Scripture.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Apparently, you cannot handle criticism constructive or otherwise. Seeing as I have placed you into your "defensive shell" and you are unable to interact without adversity and are unable to see the contrarian point of view any longer without animosity and seeing it as an attack then it is not worth commenting with you.

No, actually, I think that I understand your view, although, I realize there may be aspects I don't know, because I've come to realize over the course of time that you aren't fully forthcoming, and you like to hold back. I prefer to be more up front about things.

You continued ad hominem statements reveal to me your attitude. I prefer to stay on point.

It would be a better conversation, at least to me, if you were to stop sharing your poor opinions of me, which you seem to feel so free to broadcast, and if you were to stay on point also!

Much love!

 

[Curtis]

Do you not believe the Word???

Colossians 2:8-11 KJV
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Much love!

On the other hand, Peter and Paul said new believers need the milk of the word as newborns do, and need to progress to the meat of the word. That certainly implies needing to grow in the word.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food,

Heb 5:13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

1Co 3:1 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.

1Co 3:2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,

 

[marks]

On the other hand, Peter and Paul said new believers need the milk of the word as newborns do, and need to progress to the meat of the word. That certainly implies needing to grow in the word.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food,

Heb 5:13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

1Co 3:1 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.

1Co 3:2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,

Amen!

I love this part,

Hebrews 5:14 KJV
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Who by reason of use.

When you do the parts you understand, you'll gain more understanding into the rest.

Pursue righteousness, and abstain from evil, and you will gain greater ability to distinguish what is good, and what is not.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Romans 6:5-7 KJV
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Romans 6:8-11 KJV
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Romans 6:12-16 KJV
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Romans 6:17-23 KJV
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

These verses speak of crucifying the Old man, and putting on the new man, a concept your theology does not include. Your theology denies the believer of cross carrying, Repentance, and our response to the cross that the apostles saw as the growth we as Christians need. The difference between you and i is that you see this putting to death of our flesh as being instantaneous and happening at the rebirth, I see it as part of the Christian journey, that there are parts of our carnal selves that we must continually put to death, Parts we do not realize that are carnal, like the mind of man, and our reliance on our intellect, which places God in a box of human understanding, and does not allow for the glorification of the majesty of God. It is not until we are totally empty that He can fill us, when we are weak then he is strong, that is when we are clothed with righteousness. Until then, we like new born babes are naked. Maturation as a Believer means being clothed with Righteousness. This is what progressive sanctification is all about. As infants we need the milk of doctrine, as young men we learn to digest the meat of the word, as elders we live in the fulness of Christ and are not swayed by the doctrines of men for we have eaten his word to fulness.(Ephesians 4:13-17, 1 John 2:12-14, Hebrews 5:12-14, 1 Corinthians 3:1-5, John 6:51, Revelation 3:20) All of the above are saved, whether children, young men or father(elders) The difference is the older we get we learn to dress our selves with clothes of righteousness, Our Christina journey and progressive sanctification is as simple as that, literally, we PUT ON Christ, as we become more Christ like...

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: (1 Peter 2:21)

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.(Isaiah 61:10-11)

 

[marks]

a concept your theology does not include.

More nonsense. You should just go to your own thread where you can write my posts for me without my interferance.

 

[marks]

2 Corinthians 5:17-21 KJV
17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

We are new creatures, completely new.

Ephesians 4:21-25 KJV
21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Titus 2:11-15 KJV
11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14) Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15) These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Much love!

 

[marks]

These verses speak of crucifying the Old man, and putting on the new man,

Romans 6:5-7 KJV
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Romans 6:8-11 KJV
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 2:20 KJV
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Having crucified the old man.

You are dead now to sin. Dead to the flesh. Dead to the world. Now go and live that way.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

The natural man is born naked, so too is the Spiritual man. We put on the clothing after we are reborn. Jesus used simple analogies to convey deep theological concepts. For example he used the analogy of a woman being Pregnant to illustrate the second coming, or agricultural concepts such as sowing and reaping to explain the Kingdom of God. Children intrinsically understand these things, grown ups tend to overcomplexify them and thereby miss the theological points illustrated by them.

Galatians 2:20 KJV
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. (Galatians 2:16-17)

Justification is not the same as sanctification. Although there is instant sanctification involved in Justification, this is different from the sanctification of the Spirit, the work the Holy Spirit does in our life.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (Romans 8:14)

thanatoō (G2289) From Thayer's Lexicon:
STRONGS NT 2289: θανατόω
θανατόω, -ῶ; future θανατώσω; 1 aorist infinitive θανατῶσαι, [3 person plural subjunctive θανατώσωσι, Matthew 26:59 R G]; passive, [present θανατοῦμαι]; 1 aorist ἐθανατώθην; (from θάνατος); from Aeschylus and Herodotus down; Sept. for הֵמִית, הָרַג, etc.
1. properly, to put to death: τινά, Matthew 10:21; Matthew 26:59; Matthew 27:1; Mark 13:12; Mark 14:55; Luke 21:16; 2 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Peter 3:18; passive, by rhetorical hyperbole, to be in the state of one who is being put to death, Romans 8:36.
2. metaphorically,
a. to make to die i. e. destroy, render extinct (something vigorous), Vulg. mortifico [A. V. mortify]: τί, Romans 8:13.
b. passive with the dative of the thing, by death to be liberated from the bond of anything [literally, to be made dead in relation to; cf. Winers Grammar, 210 (197); Buttmann, 178 (155)]: Romans 7:4.

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. (Romans 8:36)

Let me know when you start seeing this? We are continually being crucified, we are continually mortifying the deeds of the body, this is not a one time thing but the work of the Holy Spirit in us.... "Through the Spirit". We are "Killed all day long" It is this very activity in our life that gives us the assurance of salvation Read Romans 8:36 in its full context as these are verses of assurance of salvation. It is this activity that shows us we are sharing in the sufferings of Christ. It is this activity which the apostles rejoiced in when they were scourged for they knew they were counted worthy to share in the suffering of Christ. (Acts 5:41)

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Romans 8:17) Sounds like a conditional statement does it not?

Now read 1 Peter 4:12-19 as this is the seal of God.

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: (1 Peter 2:21)

 

[Enoch111]

Please explain your expression 'God's spirit children' marks.

That is a Mormon term. So it should have been avoided.

 

[David H.]

Your are dead now to sin. Dead to the flesh. Dead to the world. Now go and live that way.

 

[amigo de christo]

Romans 6:5-7 KJV
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Romans 6:8-11 KJV
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 2:20 KJV
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Having crucified the old man.

Your are dead now to sin. Dead to the flesh. Dead to the world. Now go and live that way.

Much love!

Yes its of much importance that by grace we continue to warn believers and remind them
to do good and to flee evil . To rebuke those who do err , and even seperate from their company , IF they heed not the warning .
We must keep the pattern identical to that which JESUS first taught and later the apostles would .

 

[amigo de christo]

I have seen a deadly and grievious error in the land . The churches no longer correct , and thus the leaven rises full .
Thus is any believer is a fornicator , covetous , homosexual or any other sin , REBUKE and CORRECT .
Do not follow the pattern o todays churches , which holler JUDGE NOT just hug and get along .
IF we do so the whole lump will be leavened full , just as it has occured in many churches .
Those who sin , REBUKE before all that others may also fear .

 

[Enoch111]

There is a significant difference in hoping to become someone better, and learning how to be the better person we have already become.

No one becomes a better person overnight. So sanctification consists of becoming that better person day by day, who walks in the Spirit and not after the flesh.

We should not confuse standing with state. Our standing before God is that we are as righteous as Christ, because we are in Him, and clothed with His righteousness. But our state is determined to the degree that we crucify the flesh and walk according to the Spirit.