Where do people get the spiritual authority?

[Kokyu]

What is your overall point exactly?

You asked in your OP:

People assume they have the authority to overtly cover and decide for others what is right and what is wrong concerning the bible.

Is there a passage of scripture which one can take the bible for today, and assert this authority over people?

I think my answer addresses what you described/wondered about here.

 

[MatthewG]

You asked in your OP:



I think my answer addresses what you described/wondered about here.

Where does someone in someone elses life get to dictate spiritual authority over them?

 

[Kokyu]

Where does someone in someone elses life get to dictate spiritual authority over them?

The only people in the NT who are given spiritual authority over other believers are Elders/Pastors/Bishops/Overseers. Peter enjoins all believers to "be subject one to one another" (1 Pe. 5:5) adopting an attitude of humility toward their Christian brethren, but this is different, I think, than the sort of spiritual oversight/authority given to Elders in their fulfillment of their responsibilities to spiritually feed, defend (which entails church discipline), equip and direct their "flock" (1 Ti. 3:1-7; Ac. 20: 28-31; Tit. 1:5-1; 1 Pe. 5:1-3).

The spiritual authority of an Elder is not imposed by the Elder upon his fellow believers, however, but is conferred upon him by the Body of Believers, the Church (especially fellow Elders), who freely adopt an Elder (or Elders) to direct, teach and defend them spirituality (in accord with God's word, of course). If an Elder conducts himself in a way that is not properly in keeping with God's word, no other believer is obliged to remain under his authority.

Some Joe-shmoe online has no spiritual authority, of course, but can only refer to what does have such authority, which is the word of God.

 

[amigo de christo]

The only people in the NT who are given spiritual authority over other believers are Elders/Pastors/Bishops/Overseers. Peter enjoins all believers to "be subject one to one another" (1 Pe. 5:5) adopting an attitude of humility toward their Christian brethren, but this is different, I think, than the sort of spiritual oversight/authority given to Elders in their fulfillment of their responsibilities to spiritually feed, defend (which entails church discipline), equip and direct their "flock" (1 Ti. 3:1-7; Ac. 20: 28-31; Tit. 1:5-1; 1 Pe. 5:1-3).

The spiritual authority of an Elder is not imposed by the Elder upon his fellow believers, however, but is conferred upon him by the Body of Believers, the Church (especially fellow Elders), who freely adopt an Elder (or Elders) to direct, teach and defend them spirituality (in accord with God's word, of course). If an Elder conducts himself in a way that is not properly in keeping with God's word, no other believer is obliged to remain under his authority.

Some Joe-shmoe online has no spiritual authority, of course, but can only refer to what does have such authority, which is the word of God.

Those who love sin will always find a way to accuse the true sheep who do expose their sin .
Keep that in mind .
But those whose LOVE is of GOD and thus they do love the peoples
are gonna do what is best for the people . even if they be hated and called monsters and put on ignore .
TIME for this church age TO WAKE UP .
ANYTHING that in any way dishonors GOD , CHRIST
is something that should never have been praticed by the church
nor allowed to be done by the church .
Because not only DO IT DISHONOR GOD , CHRIST
IT WORKS only to the destuction of those who do practice such things .
THUS PROVING , ITS NO LOVE FOR GOD , FOR CHRIST OR FOR THY NEIGHBOR .
seeing it allows sins upon them . WE need a total wake up call in this generation .
Most people hug the devil and every rainbow they see
but if a man brings a bible and doctrine , THEY RUN that one OFF .
AS though the WORDS OF GOD are hate speech and as though those who bring them are haters .
THIS Generation IS DUPED BIG TIME and i am gonna expose it all my friend .
No matter what . No matter what . For the sakes of those who even hate me
i must do good to this people . and correction IS REAL GOOD , sin is real bad .
SO people can think of me as they will . But they cannot silence my mouth
from speaking truth , from correcting error and sins and from exposing anything that is contrary to GOD and to HIS CHRIST .

 

[MatthewG]

The only people in the NT who are given spiritual authority over other believers are Elders/Pastors/Bishops/Overseers. Peter enjoins all believers to "be subject one to one another" (1 Pe. 5:5) adopting an attitude of humility toward their Christian brethren, but this is different, I think, than the sort of spiritual oversight/authority given to Elders in their fulfillment of their responsibilities to spiritually feed, defend (which entails church discipline), equip and direct their "flock" (1 Ti. 3:1-7; Ac. 20: 28-31; Tit. 1:5-1; 1 Pe. 5:1-3).

The spiritual authority of an Elder is not imposed by the Elder upon his fellow believers, however, but is conferred upon him by the Body of Believers, the Church (especially fellow Elders), who freely adopt an Elder (or Elders) to direct, teach and defend them spirituality (in accord with God's word, of course). If an Elder conducts himself in a way that is not properly in keeping with God's word, no other believer is obliged to remain under his authority.

Some Joe-shmoe online has no spiritual authority, of course, but can only refer to what does have such authority, which is the word of God.

So you should believe everything your Elder tells you?
Do you believe that church discipline is applicable today?
If a person in the church is a woman should she not speak?
If a person in the church is a homosexual should they be kicked out?
If a person whom is a Elder in the church proclaims to be able to heal you, should you believe him?


Just asking some questions. I don't believe there is anyone whom has spiritual authority to dictate a persons life...

That person whom you claim is an Elder, should be teaching the flock but also at the same time be telling them never to believe them but to go and check information out for themselves, and go to God himself...


Doesn't that make more sense?

 

[amigo de christo]

So you should believe everything your Elder tells you?

THE RIGHT question was asked .
WHY HECK NO . You gots to test any and all who do speak .
BUT here is the part YOU NEED TO KNOW yourself
YOU TEST them NOT AGAINST what seems right to you , feels right to you
YOU DO IT AGAINST THEM LOVELY WORDS IN THAT BIBLE friend .
cause you are every bit as much in danger as many are . BUT THANK YOU For asking such a lovely question .
WE TEST ALL THINGS anyone says and we do it against THE WORDS OF THE LORD .
not against our feelings , not against what we think is love and loving , BUT against WHAT GOD himself inspired . THE TRUTH .

 

[amigo de christo]

So you should believe everything your Elder tells you?
Do you believe that church discipline is applicable today?
If a person in the church is a woman should she not speak?
If a person in the church is a homosexual should they be kicked out?
If a person whom is a Elder in the church proclaims to be able to heal you, should you believe him?


Just asking some questions. I don't believe there is anyone whom has spiritual authority to dictate a persons life...

That person whom you claim is an Elder, should be teaching the flock but also at the same time be telling them never to believe them but to go and check information out for themselves, and go to God himself...


Doesn't that make more sense?

You must not have read what he wrote . cause he darn sure said
IF it dont agree to and align with the word of GOD , THEN WE DONT HEED IT .
mathew i read what he wrote . And you of all people know
This sheep dont just follow any tom , dick , moe or larry .
However there are such elders appointed .
THAT SO long as they teach in agreement and NOT IN CONTRADICTION
to the Words inspired of GOD , aka YES THE BIBLE mathew , we heed such .
BUT those who teach contrary , must be corrected . IF they dont hear
MOVE ON and dont sit under such . RATHER come ye out from amongst .
Hope that helps .

 

[MatthewG]

@Kokyu isn't there certain criteria to also meet when becoming a said Elder?

There is a passage that shares that not many shall become teachers because they will be judged more harshly.

 

[amigo de christo]

The only people in the NT who are given spiritual authority over other believers are Elders/Pastors/Bishops/Overseers. Peter enjoins all believers to "be subject one to one another" (1 Pe. 5:5) adopting an attitude of humility toward their Christian brethren, but this is different, I think, than the sort of spiritual oversight/authority given to Elders in their fulfillment of their responsibilities to spiritually feed, defend (which entails church discipline), equip and direct their "flock" (1 Ti. 3:1-7; Ac. 20: 28-31; Tit. 1:5-1; 1 Pe. 5:1-3).

The spiritual authority of an Elder is not imposed by the Elder upon his fellow believers, however, but is conferred upon him by the Body of Believers, the Church (especially fellow Elders), who freely adopt an Elder (or Elders) to direct, teach and defend them spirituality (in accord with God's word, of course). If an Elder conducts himself in a way that is not properly in keeping with God's word, no other believer is obliged to remain under his authority.

Some Joe-shmoe online has no spiritual authority, of course, but can only refer to what does have such authority, which is the word of God.

TO the trenches one and all for the hour grows late and only later by the hour does it grow .
Time to make an all out stand . Its the last stand to do all to contend for the true faith
to do all to speak TRUTH , to pratice only that WHICH HONORS GOD
and to expose anything that dishonors him and to expose any pratice which do dishonor him . SUCH AS SIN .
NO SIN honors GOD , ITS REBELLION . so yeah it must not be praticed or even allowed
amongst the brethren . NOT ONLY DO IT DISHONOR GOD
but i PROMISE it wont work one bit of good to the lover of it and he who does such a thing . ONLY DESTRUCTION .
REGULATORS , MOUNT UP . we got a lot of work to do .

 

[amigo de christo]

@Kokyu isn't there certain criteria to also meet when becoming a said Elder?

There is a passage that shares that not many shall become teachers because they will be judged more harshly.

mathew you are loaded with such GOOD questions today .
yeah there is . THEY MUST BE BLAMLESS , not women
but men . They must be GRAVE , oh dear there is a word that often gets accused as doom and gloom and hate .
Lots of gel , fancy clothes and cool trends , YEAH NOPE , NOT IT .
A leader , an elder , MUST be proved before HE even gets appointed as such .
AND GUESS what words HE MUST BE IN AGREEMENT with mathew . GODS words . not emotions
not feelings , not sensual lovey do junk . Man you are on fire with some good questions today .
NOW here is a question for you
WHAT BOOK IS LOADED WITH THE TRUTH OF GOD . OH , THE BIBLE . may i suggest
we get nose deep in it today and learn for ourselves such lovely GOD INSPIRED words .

 

[nedsk]

The RCC and scores of that protestant realm sure wont WIN the day . NOT ON HIS DAY anyway .
Might i suggest we return to the scriptures for our own selves .
Kinda funny how the memebers of the RCC make a truth that says
they had the scrips
and yet THEY DARN SURE DONT SEEM to FOLLOW THOSE WRITINGS , they heed men
who speak and teach contrary , as do many within the protestant realm .
KINDA reminds me of JOEL OSTEEN
oh he is fast to pick up a bible
and to even say the TRUTH that THESE are GOD WORDS
but bud , THAT MAN KNOWS Neither GOD or HIS WORDS . you do realize
that deception runs wild these days and that men can lie . BUT GOD HE cannot lie .
People can say anything they want FOR or against the bible
its plain to see those who speak evil against it are lost
BUT MANY can also claim its validity and YET STILL BE WOLVES IN WOOL . learn quickly
cause times running out .

I dont read any of that. You people just preach you dont engage.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

People assume they have the authority to overtly cover and decide for others what is right and what is wrong concerning the bible.

Is there a passage of scripture which one can take the bible for today, and assert this authority over people?

Because from my understanding, there is no such scripture which a person can take the words written in the bible and make them for us today because the book was never written to us, in America for example, or Canada, or A specific person in a state.

Revelation was written to 7 literal churches with living breathing people.

So how can people assert this authority if there is no passage of scripture which state "and these letters are to everyone ever more."

Fascinating, Matthew, I used to be as what you are saying, but now we believe in what our King Messiah is saying.

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[MatthewG]

Fascinating, Matthew, I used to be as what you are saying, but now we believe in what our King Messiah is saying.

Love, Walter And Debbie

I do not believe Jesus misled the seven churches—certainly not. I affirm my faith in the Lord Yeshua and the teachings he imparted. I also hold to the belief that his warnings were directed specifically to that generation and to the seven literal churches of that time.

Today, however, I’ve noticed that many interpret these messages in ways that seem tailored to contemporary perspectives, which I personally find difficult to reconcile.

Jesus clearly stated that his return would occur soon within that historical context. Interpretations may vary, of course—as they often do. And as the saying goes, to each his own.

 

[MatthewG]

@amigo de christo

Mathew, your questions today have been especially insightful—truly thought-provoking.

Regarding the qualifications for church leadership: Scripture emphasizes that such individuals must be blameless, and that these roles are reserved for men. They must be sober-minded—though the term "grave" is often misunderstood or unfairly seen as harsh or outdated.

Leadership is not about outward appearances—fashion trends, flashy hairstyles, or surface-level charisma do not define a godly elder. Instead, an elder must be thoroughly tested and proven before being appointed to such a position.

Above all, his convictions must be aligned with the Word of God—not guided by emotions, feelings, or sentimental inclinations. It's the truth of Scripture that should anchor his leadership.

Now, let me pose a question in return: What book is saturated with divine truth? Of course—it's the Bible. I encourage us to immerse ourselves in it today and reflect deeply on the wisdom and guidance found in God-inspired words.

 

[MatthewG]

I find it challenging to understand how individuals assign specific labels or doctrinal requirements to themselves, implying that one must adhere to certain beliefs in order to be considered part of the faith.

To be clear, I have not made any personal judgments suggesting that anyone here lacks faith. On the contrary, I recognize and appreciate that each of you holds genuine beliefs, and I consider that to be a deeply commendable quality.

Regarding the topic of Yeshua’s return, I’ve encountered differing viewpoints, which I believe are both natural and entirely reasonable. My intention has never been to declare anyone’s perspective as incorrect, but rather to refer back to established teachings that have shaped individual interpretations over time.

 

[doctrox]

People assume they have the authority to overtly cover and decide for others what is right and what is wrong concerning the bible.

The word of God is clear that it is a sin to deal presumptuously with others:

Numbers 15:30, "But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

Deuteronomy 17:13, "And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously."

Psalms 19:13, "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression."

Where does someone in someone elses life get to dictate spiritual authority over them?

It's not a matter of 'getting' authority, but of submitting to the One Authority who gives freely to those who are his. There is great responsibility attached to authority - a responsibility that a majority do not accept, yet they still covet the authority.

There is no Lawful authority "but from God." The true government is on his shoulder (Isa 9:6).

All worldly pretenders are mere usurpers, as they continue to hoodwink a majority.

Some Joe-shmoe online has no spiritual authority, of course, but can only refer to what does have such authority, which is the word of God.

Even within the medium of the internet, he does have "authority" (because words have power), but from whom has he received it? Who is his master?

 

[Kokyu]

So you should believe everything your Elder tells you?

No.

Do you believe that church discipline is applicable today?

Yes.

If a person in the church is a woman should she not speak?

I don't know what you mean by "speak out," but a woman is forbidden in Scripture to be an Elder/Bishop/Overseer/Pastor over men, teaching them in this role. Women may teach each other and even provide co-ed training, say, in evangelism, or apologetics, or perhaps speak to an entire congregation about what it is to be a missionary in Botswana, but taking a position of spiritual leadership and instruction over men is not biblical.

If a person in the church is a homosexual should they be kicked out?

If they are engaging in homosexual behaviour and are professing to be a born-again believer, 1 Corinthians 5 indicates very clearly that such a person is to be ejected from the congregation to which they belong. If, though, a non-believing person struggling to be free of a homosexual impulse comes to church looking for help in Christ, they ought not to be turned away, but told the truth of the Gospel and invited to know and walk with their holy Maker.

If a person whom is a Elder in the church proclaims to be able to heal you, should you believe him?

No. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" hold true here, I think. Don't proclaim to me that you're a healer, show me you are. And do so in the manner of the biblical record, not in the modern ridiculous and false style of "healing" that is typical of the Word of Faith and New Apostolic Reformation "movements."

Just asking some questions. I don't believe there is anyone whom has spiritual authority to dictate a persons life...

No, only God has this prerogative. We ought to obey Him rather than men.

That person whom you claim is an Elder, should be teaching the flock but also at the same time be telling them never to believe them but to go and check information out for themselves, and go to God himself...

Yes, sort of. There's no point, though, in putting a man over you as an Elder if you intend not to believe a word he says. Check out what he tells you, of course. But the Bible commands believers to accord Elders special respect as Elders and to appoint them as Elders because they have proven themselves to be godly and well able to teach. This wouldn't be a man whose every word you suspect is a lie.

 

[Kokyu]

Those who love sin will always find a way to accuse the true sheep who do expose their sin .
Keep that in mind .

Being a godly leader in the Church means very often that such a leader must act contrary to the carnal majority. This was Paul's experience. He did not follow the trends of the majority, or even the example of fellow apostles, when those trends or examples diverged from what Christ had taught him. He speaks about this in the second chapter of Galatians and in his advice to his protege, Timothy.

But those whose LOVE is of GOD and thus they do love the peoples
are gonna do what is best for the people . even if they be hated and called monsters and put on ignore .

2 Corinthians 12:15
15 And I will very gladly spend and be spent for your souls; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I am loved.

The man who wants to be sure people are despising him for the right reasons had better be constantly under the control of the Holy Spirit, walking in him all the time (Ga. 5:16, 25). As often as not, Christians are despised, not because they're being Christ-like, demonstrating the meekness, gentleness, patience, love and holiness of Jesus, but because they're obnoxious jackasses. Ironically, very often the Christians most guilty of being this way are often the one's most deaf to anyone telling them so. Hence, the need of the Holy Spirit to be in control of every believer, not just those in spiritual leadership in the Church.

TIME for this church age TO WAKE UP .
ANYTHING that in any way dishonors GOD , CHRIST
is something that should never have been praticed by the church
nor allowed to be done by the church .

Right.

Because not only DO IT DISHONOR GOD , CHRIST
IT WORKS only to the destuction of those who do practice such things .

The worst part of which is that they are unable to enjoy fellowship with God. There are a great many Christians, though, trying to clean up the Church and their fellow Christians, who know nothing of fellowship with God. And it shows in the complete absence of the kindness, peaceableness, and patience that marks the Spirit-controlled-and-filled believer (Ga. 5:22-23; Eph. 5:9; James 3:17-18).

WE need a total wake up call in this generation .

God is giving that call but the pressure isn't yet sufficient for most to heed it. But God's judgment cometh with slowly rising force and destruction that will not subside 'til God has reawakened and purified His Church.

Most people hug the devil and every rainbow they see
but if a man brings a bible and doctrine , THEY RUN that one OFF .
AS though the WORDS OF GOD are hate speech and as though those who bring them are haters .

Those who "hug the devil" cannot accept the things of God, so what you describe here is not a surprise.

THIS Generation IS DUPED BIG TIME and i am gonna expose it all my friend .
No matter what . No matter what . For the sakes of those who even hate me
i must do good to this people . and correction IS REAL GOOD , sin is real bad .

Well, be very careful that you are acting under the control and direction of the Holy Spirit and not under your own fleshly impulse to tell people how to live. It's very easy to do the right thing for the wrong reasons and to deny that this is so, or that it matters, because the end goal is a godly one. But God is as concerned with why we're doing what we're doing as He is with what we're doing.

 

[MatthewG]

No.



Yes.



I don't know what you mean by "speak out," but a woman is forbidden in Scripture to be an Elder/Bishop/Overseer/Pastor over men, teaching them in this role. Women may teach each other and even provide co-ed training, say, in evangelism, or apologetics, or perhaps speak to an entire congregation about what it is to be a missionary in Botswana, but taking a position of spiritual leadership and instruction over men is not biblical.



If they are engaging in homosexual behaviour and are professing to be a born-again believer, 1 Corinthians 5 indicates very clearly that such a person is to be ejected from the congregation to which they belong. If, though, a non-believing person struggling to be free of a homosexual impulse comes to church looking for help in Christ, they ought not to be turned away, but told the truth of the Gospel and invited to know and walk with their holy Maker.



No. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" hold true here, I think. Don't proclaim to me that you're a healer, show me you are. And do so in the manner of the biblical record, not in the modern ridiculous and false style of "healing" that is typical of the Word of Faith and New Apostolic Reformation "movements."



No, only God has this prerogative. We ought to obey Him rather than men.



Yes, sort of. There's no point, though, in putting a man over you as an Elder if you intend not to believe a word he says. Check out what he tells you, of course. But the Bible commands believers to accord Elders special respect as Elders and to appoint them as Elders because they have proven themselves to be godly and well able to teach. This wouldn't be a man whose every word you suspect is a lie.

I thought God was enough. Perhaps he is not enough.

I disagree.

God loves all people, Jesus paid for all sins, and what’s left is the heart.

God can write the hearts and minds of those who look towards him.

Even those who do not even show up to a church on sunday or wed, or sat.

 

[amigo de christo]

No.



Yes.



I don't know what you mean by "speak out," but a woman is forbidden in Scripture to be an Elder/Bishop/Overseer/Pastor over men, teaching them in this role. Women may teach each other and even provide co-ed training, say, in evangelism, or apologetics, or perhaps speak to an entire congregation about what it is to be a missionary in Botswana, but taking a position of spiritual leadership and instruction over men is not biblical.



If they are engaging in homosexual behaviour and are professing to be a born-again believer, 1 Corinthians 5 indicates very clearly that such a person is to be ejected from the congregation to which they belong. If, though, a non-believing person struggling to be free of a homosexual impulse comes to church looking for help in Christ, they ought not to be turned away, but told the truth of the Gospel and invited to know and walk with their holy Maker.



No. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" hold true here, I think. Don't proclaim to me that you're a healer, show me you are. And do so in the manner of the biblical record, not in the modern ridiculous and false style of "healing" that is typical of the Word of Faith and New Apostolic Reformation "movements."



No, only God has this prerogative. We ought to obey Him rather than men.



Yes, sort of. There's no point, though, in putting a man over you as an Elder if you intend not to believe a word he says. Check out what he tells you, of course. But the Bible commands believers to accord Elders special respect as Elders and to appoint them as Elders because they have proven themselves to be godly and well able to teach. This wouldn't be a man whose every word you suspect is a lie.

Oh i noticed you spoke against the nar realm . GOOD . They have hijacked this people
and lead them only to destruction . But they are not the only realm doing heavy and massive deceiving .
Many now lead this people , by fair words and sensual love songs right to a lie.
So many people claim this or that , and do as they do to be seen of men and to be called
most holy this or that .
True sheep wont be doing their works for to be seen on TV and to make that money . them are imposters only .
Always hollering about giving to THE KINGDOM of GOD
and yet its their addresses that keep growing . We must speak the truth and let us HONOR ALMIGHTY GOD
the FATHER OF our LORD and SAVOIR CHRIST JESUS
in all that we do , in all that we say .
One more thing . A GREAT and MASSIVE TRIBULATION is coming against the sheep .
THE FIERY TRIALS of our faith . many shall bleed . Let not the fear of man be a snare to the soul , for it is a snare to the soul .
Let patience have her perfect work and be faithful even unto to death .
COUNT the COST , we will not be loved in this world and words will soon become actions against the sheep who did not
and would not conform . THE CRY
I COUNSEL THEE TO BUY OF ME GOLD TRIED IN THE FIRE . be zealous and repent .