Where does the Pope get his authority?

[Marymog]

Since the Bible itself clearly states what sort of bread was used at the last supper and what it symbolized, and it also states that Christ “broke the bread” and handed it to his apostles as a symbol of his body and the wine as a symbol of his blood, how on earth that got translated to the actual flesh and blood of Christ, escapes anyone who is not indoctrinated by your church. To eat human flesh and to drink human blood is a violation of God’s law…..but regardless of that, “the church” continues to offend the true God with its unscriptural practices.

Dear Jane,

It is an unscriptural practice to call the bread a symbol since at no point and at no time does Scripture say that it is a symbol. Us Christians simply believe and practice what Christ said, "This (the bread) IS my body...." and Paul teaches; it is a participation in the body of Christ.

Your men say it isn't. Sooooooo who is performing an unscriptural practice?

Your men teach that 'when Jehovah’s Witnesses observe the Lord’s Evening Meal, only a small fraction of us partake of the bread and wine." Scripture doesn't say that only a select few are allowed to partake. It says completely opposite of your unscriptural practice. Why do your men continue to offend God and deny Christs body to ALL your members?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Not to forget the despicable report by a grand jury in Pennsylvania detailing seven decades of sexual abuse of at least 1,000 children, and probably thousands more, by more than 300 Catholic priests — has left no question that Pope Francis’ legacy will be decided by how he confronts this crisis. It is devouring the "church" - erasing trust in its hierarchs, dismaying the faithful and further blackening its image. The RCC is a sinful power generator. It's all about power, greed, puppeteering the people, and providing an unchallenged magnet for pedophiles.

And no grand jury has convicted any of your Protestant men for the same thing?

 

[Adrift]

And no grand jury has convicted any of your Protestant men for the same thing?

Sure, but the comparison doesn't hold water when you consider the numbers of exposed pedophiles per parishoner in the Catholic church versus Protestent. The Catholics have everyone beat, so go ahead and eat your popcorn. It's even worse than we know because the Pope and Bishops keep a tight lid on it and hide what they can. The Catholic church is a magnet for child molesting perverts. You logic is as flawed as the fabricated, unbiblical Catholic practices.

 

[amigo de christo]

a simple answer and a simple reminder .
And He gave him his seat and great power ............
the dragon did this unto the beast . and the HARLOT rides the beast .
Who is the main one that is unifying all religoins and denomiations to rest as one under her shade .
THERE BE YOUR ANSWER folks . flee the chambers of that HARLOT and her many daughters

 

[The Learner]

So the Bereans were wrong to confirm that the scriptures agreed with Paul? You are seeking to assert that we should obey the church blindly without recourse to God's word. Is that correct?

No Catholic I know blindly follows their Church. They are intelligent and know the word.

 

[The Learner]

Jesus said we must eat His body in the bread of life discourse. He then showed us how to do it at the last supper. Jesus did not say what you allege he said. Here is what he said: Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. At no point and at no time did He say the bread was a "symbol". At no point and at no time do the Apostles teach that it was a symbol.

Paul asked the question, The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? Your answer to Paul is, NO Paul! It is NOT a communion of the body of Christ. It is a symbol of His body.

So should I believe Jesus and Paul? Or should I believe you? Tough decision here......

And, if you knew your Christian history, you would know that the earliest teachings of The Church were that communion was what Jesus said it was, a participation in His body.

Keeping it real with Scripture and Christian history.......Mary

Mary, the God bearer

 

[The Learner]

rth

 

[Aunty Jane]

I know. That's why I said, "For future reference you don't need to waste all your time degrading The Church and Christianity with your opinions."

I guess that depends on who is reading these exchanges....you see, it’s not a waste of time exposing blatantly false “Christianity”, because there are still many victims of it out there...’the good news of God’s Kingdom’ was to be “preached in all the inhabited earth as a witness to ALL the nations” right up until “the end” (Matt 24:14)....giving all an opportunity to obey God’s command in Rev 18:4-5.

What is this “the end” of? What do we need to remove ourselves from? We will all find out soon enough....but best if we act before Jesus does....

Ummmm.....YOU said "the bread offered at the Lord’s Supper was broken flat bread" and Scripture does not say it was flat bread sooooo what am I missing here? It was leavened bread.

What you are missing is that it was NOT leavened bread....the raising agent in bread is leaven. No leaven means “flat” bread.
The Passover bread was "unleavened" (Ex 12:8) ....that is what Jesus said symbolized his sinless body.

It was not shaped at all, but “broken” as was the custom at Jewish meals. Anyone who bakes bread knows how leaven permeates the entire batch of dough. “Leaven” was used as a corrupting agent in Jesus’ teachings. (Matt 16:5-12) Jesus’ sinless body was symbolized by the absence of the leaven.

And since Jesus was still alive when he passed the bread to his apostles at the Last Supper, the flat bread was not his literal body because he had not yet sacrificed it. So if the original bread was not his literal body, neither is the bread that is used to remind all of his willing sacrifice...... It wasn’t just another excuse to offend God by making false claims, and telling them to break God’s law, thinking that the emblems of the Last Supper were somehow miraculously transformed into Christ’s literal body and blood! How disgusting that would have been to any Jew, as we saw in one of his sermons......

When Jesus spoke of ‘eating his flesh and drinking his blood’, it caused an immediate reaction among his disciples, who were all Jewish....
John 6:60-63.....
“When they heard this, many of his disciples said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them: “Does this stumble you? . . . . 63 It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. . . . .66 Because of this, many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. 67 So Jesus said to the Twelve: “You do not want to go also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life. 69 We have believed and have come to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

So what he said was “spiritual”...not to be taken literally, because that is what caused many to walk away at that time, thoroughly disgusted. He knew that the apostles were worried about his statement as well, so he explained that his sayings were “spirit and life”....so they stayed and came to understand what he meant because they knew who he was.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus said we must eat His body in the bread of life discourse. He then showed us how to do it at the last supper. Jesus did not say what you allege he said. Here is what he said: Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. At no point and at no time did He say the bread was a "symbol". At no point and at no time do the Apostles teach that it was a symbol.

At that time it wasn’t his literal body though, was it?.....he was still alive.

Paul asked the question, The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? Your answer to Paul is, NO Paul! It is NOT a communion of the body of Christ. It is a symbol of His body.

So should I believe Jesus and Paul? Or should I believe you? Tough decision here......

There are no tough decisions except for those who swallow lies, like candy.
The body of Christ was sacrificed, but his body was never seen again. The tomb was empty except for the bandages and head cloth in which his body was laid in the tomb.
Speaking about himself, John "stooped to look in, and saw the linen wrappings lying there; however he did not go in.

So Simon Peter also came, following him, and he entered the tomb; and he looked at the linen wrappings lying there, and the face-cloth which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings but folded up in a place by itself." (John 20:1-10)

Jews did not bury their dead in shrouds but in linen wrappings like bandages. There was a separate cloth that covered his head.

Which also makes the "shroud of Turin" a fake.

Jesus was raised “in the spirit” (in a spirit body) so as to return to his Father in heaven." (1 Peter 3:18)

Paul understood what the Catholic church fails to acknowledge....that eating literal flesh and drinking literal blood is against God’s law. Those whom Christ rejects at the judgment are said to be “workers of lawlessness”....that is, breaking God’s laws with impunity. This is only one of many breaches of God’s law by the RCC...there are many more.

 

[RedFan]

The body of Christ was sacrificed, but his body was never seen again. The tomb was empty except for the bandages and head cloth in which his body was laid in the tomb.

So where was the body when the tomb was discovered to be empty? Did it melt into thin air? Or was it still walking the planet until Christ's Ascension?

 

[quietthinker]

Where does the Pope get his authority?​

Why do sports stadiums have no problem filling with people?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I have read God's word for myself. Clearly you have not. I have quoted God's word to you in the last several posts to destroy what your men have taught you.

You really think so? I know that most non-Catholics here would not believe a word of what you offered by way of so called "scriptural" excuses. None of them hold water.

Your branch started 1,800+ years after the death of Christ. Does that concern you Jane?

No, it confirms my beliefs actually. A study in Daniel reveals why. At this "time of the end" there was to be a "cleansing, whitening and refining" of God's worship.....this proves that what went before was filled with all manner of filth and impurities. (Dan 12:9-10) Guess where they came from...? not us.

Whom do you trust more when interpreting Scripture? The men who were students of the Apostles OR your men who interpreted Scripture 1,800+ years later? Your foundation started in the 1870's. I can show you that mine started 2,000 years ago.

The men who began your own church may have been educated by those who were educated by some of the apostles, but don't forget that being educated by Jesus himself did not stop Judas from his defection.
A falling away was foretold and it happened just as it was prophesied......your church pretends that it didn't....and goes right on teaching what Christ never did.

I don't think God cares what shape the Eucharist is and Scripture does not tell us what shape it is required to be. The Church uses unleavened bread to make it, just like the bread Christ used at the last supper. Archaeological research demonstrate the round form of the Eucharist from pictures found in the catacombs, and Pope St. Zephyrinus (A. D. 201-219) calls the altar-bread "coronam sive oblatam sphericae figurae". There is zero evidence that it was intently made in the shape of the sun to honor the Roman sun god.

Now this one really made me smile.....God doesn't care what shape the bread is and that is the point. Your church apparently does, and it is shaped like the sun....Roman sun worship dictated it, as it did with its unholy Sabbath observance on a Sunday....which is NOT the 7th day of the week of the week, is it? Where is the authorization to change the Jewish Sabbath? And where will I find any command for Christians to observe it anyway?

As for you quote from pope whatshisname...who "calls the altar-bread "coronam sive oblatam sphericae figurae". Look that up and you will see that he made reference to "the figure of a sphere".....exactly what shape the sun is. Hellooooo.....

And the fact that it is called "alter bread" should also raise some eyebrows, because the Christians had no earthly temple and hence no priesthood or alter at which to serve same.

The Lord's last Passover meal was the precursor for the Lord's Memorial, to be held annually as a remembrance of Christ's sacrifice....it replaced the Passover because Christ is the true Passover Lamb. His blood is figuratively on the door posts of every genuine Christian's home.

So there is no precedent for holding this as a weekly observance. Those who partake of the bread and the wine must do so in full knowledge of what it means....no Catholic can possibly do so because they are not taught the truth about Christ at all....and most have no idea even why he had to come to earth as a human and sacrifice his life for us. That would prevent them taking the bread and wine in a worthy way. (1 Cor 11:27-29) Those who do so will not go unpunished.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So where was the body when the tomb was discovered to be empty? Did it melt into thin air? Or was it still walking the planet until Christ's Ascension?

As Christ's physical body was sacrificed when he died, he did not take his body back when his Father resurrected him after three days in his tomb. The length of time is significant because one of the prophesies about Christ's death was that his flesh would not become corrupted in the grave. After four days it was thought that decomposition would begin as in the case of Lazarus who had been dead four days and his sister suggested that "by now he must smell".
Jesus was raised as a spirit in order to return to his Father in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. All who dwell in God's presence are spirits.

The tomb was empty because God himself disposed of Christ's body, knowing full well that those who came later would turn religious relics into objects of devotion, which is idolatry. This something that the RCC is renowned for.....breaching the second Commandment, not to even "MAKE" images of anything to be used in worship. (Ex 20:4-5) Their churches are full of disgusting images...and religious relics.

Just as no one knows where God buried Moses', so no one knows what God did with Christ's physical body. The Bible simply does not say. What we do know is that Jesus upon his resurrection no longer stayed with his apostles, as he had done for the previous three and a half years.....it says that he "appeared" to them on many occasions, and sometimes he simply disappeared right before their eyes. So we know from the Bible record that spirit beings can materialize and dematerialize as angels had done in the past. These are spirits who have capabilities that we mere mortal humans do not have.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Where does the Pope get his authority?​

Why do sports stadiums have no problem filling with people?

The people's modern day "temples" have no problem filling up with people who love to meet together to worship their sporting idols....
Some even love to sing their hymns before their idol worship begins.....

Celebrities and pop idols too, have no problem filling their venues with devoted worshippers....its a sad reality of the satanic world we currently live in. (1 John 5:19)

 

[Brakelite]

No Catholic I know blindly follows their Church. They are intelligent and know the word.

I agree actually. But this discussion is about authority, and it seems to me that BoL is saying that we can go to scripture so long as we like, but if the church says something else, we gotta take the church's word over scripture.
Tradition and the idea that the church decides what scripture means, not the reader, results in the reality that in Catholicism, church authority does trump scripture. Look at the Sunday sacredness issue as a prime example.
The way I look at the Bereans, is that the church revealed to them a certain line of thinking, and it was through reading scripture that those readers of scripture decided the church to be right. In the case of Jesus chatting to those guys on the road to Emmaus, it was divine revelation revealing to, again readers of scripture, the reality of the identity of the Messiah. It means so long as we are humble, seekers for truth, the holy Spirit will today reveal truth and guide the earnest reader of scripture. While the church is helpful at times, we are never to place our complete trust in man, though he be bishop, pastor, or Pope, in order to come to a knowledge of truth. Even Peter himself, did not get his understanding of "though art the Christ, the Son of the Living God", through the church, but through the Father revealing to Peter who Jesus was. If Peter had relied on the church for truth, He would have stood along side Caiaphas in condemning Jesus. Church authority never was intended to extend to dictating to members what is truth. The pillar and ground of truth spoken of in scripture is the individual church member sitting humbly at home, on the riverbank, in his car, trusting in the holy Spirit to lead and guide him into all truth, as per the promise of Jesus.
The magisterium of the Vatican does not have the power or the authority to dictate to anyone what scripture means to the individual, unless that individual willingly submits to that authority. In such a case He had made an idol of the magisterium.

 

[Brakelite]

Some will respond to the above by starting the obvious, that many have claimed to be following scripture but have gone off the rails and ended up being responsible for the lives of hundreds who believed them. The thing about that is, if those hundreds had gone to scripture to confirm whether their leader (that is their church) was speaking truth, then only one would have been lost.
If your church points you to the scriptures as the basis and source of truth by which you must live, then your church is going okay. If however your church requires you to believe what the church teaches, even though it may claim to be teaching from scripture, then you need to redouble your effort in searching scripture to double check your teachers are correct. It is a fine line between trust in man and trust in scripture. I would expect nothing else from people reading my posts. And I welcome those who use scripture to counter what I say. And even then, it remains with me to go back to the Source, the holy inspiration of scripture, to confirm whether those critics are speaking the truth.
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20. The people of God are directed to the Scriptures as their safeguard against the influence of false teachers and the delusive power of spirits of darkness. Satan employs every possible device to prevent men from obtaining a knowledge of the Bible; for its plain utterances reveal his deceptions. At every revival of God's work the prince of evil is aroused to more intense activity; he is now putting forth his utmost efforts for a final struggle against Christ and His followers. The last great delusion is soon to open before us. Antichrist is to perform his marvelous works in our sight. So closely will the counterfeit resemble the true that it will be impossible to distinguish between them except by the Holy Scriptures. By their testimony every statement and every miracle must be tested. And even Antichrist himself (will/is) claims scripture as the source of his authority.

Will you take his word? Is he infallible?

 

[Adrift]

Catholicism is not biblical Christianity. As always, let’s continue to pray for those in a system of works-based faith to find the peace and salvation we can have in His grace. Here are just a sampling of Roman Catholic Church heresies:

1. Calling the priests "father" is forbidden. (Matt. 23:9)
2. Praying repetitively using rosary beads is forbidden. (Matt. 6:7)
3. Teaching that Mary the virgin Mary never had sex after Jesus was born and that Jesus had no brothers and sisters is untrue. (Matt. 13:55-56)(Matt. 1:24-25)
4. Worshipping idols, icons and images violates the 2nd commandment. (Exodus 20:4-5)
5. Human tradition and man-made doctrine is apostacy. (Mark 7:7-9)
6. Praying to Mary and the Saints is idolatry (1 Tim. 2:5)
7. Teaching that Mary was born sinless and lived a sinless life. This is absurd, of course, because she was 100% human and no person is righteous (Romans 3:10).
8. Praying to dead people (Mary & Saints) is forbidden and an abomination. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12; Leviticus 20:6,27; 1 Samuel 28:5-18; Isaiah 8:19-20)
9. Purgatory does not exist in the Bible. It is a Catholic fund raiser through the unbiblical selling of indulgences.
10. Confessing sins to a priest to obtain absolution for sins is forbidden (Mark 2:5-11)

 

[RedFan]

As Christ's physical body was sacrificed when he died, he did not take his body back when his Father resurrected him after three days in his tomb. The length of time is significant because one of the prophesies about Christ's death was that his flesh would not become corrupted in the grave. After four days it was thought that decomposition would begin as in the case of Lazarus who had been dead four days and his sister suggested that "by now he must smell".
Jesus was raised as a spirit in order to return to his Father in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. All who dwell in God's presence are spirits.

The tomb was empty because God himself disposed of Christ's body, knowing full well that those who came later would turn religious relics into objects of devotion, which is idolatry. This something that the RCC is renowned for.....breaching the second Commandment, not to even "MAKE" images of anything to be used in worship. (Ex 20:4-5) Their churches are full of disgusting images...and religious relics.

Just as no one knows where God buried Moses', so no one knows what God did with Christ's physical body. The Bible simply does not say. What we do know is that Jesus upon his resurrection no longer stayed with his apostles, as he had done for the previous three and a half years.....it says that he "appeared" to them on many occasions, and sometimes he simply disappeared right before their eyes. So we know from the Bible record that spirit beings can materialize and dematerialize as angels had done in the past. These are spirits who have capabilities that we mere mortal humans do not have.

John 20:27 recounts the risen Christ inviting Thomas to gather tactile evidence of Christ's physical body. What's up with that?

 

[Brakelite]

John 20:27 recounts the risen Christ inviting Thomas to gather tactile evidence of Christ's physical body. What's up with that?

KJV Luke 24:39
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[Marymog]

The men who began your own church may have been educated by those who were educated by some of the apostles, but don't forget that being educated by Jesus himself did not stop Judas from his defection.
A falling away was foretold and it happened just as it was prophesied......your church pretends that it didn't....and goes right on teaching what Christ never did.

Lol...Hold on! HOLD ON GIRL!!

Are you being serious? Judas defected, fell away, betrayed Christ etc and that is your evidence that the Apostolic Fathers were not reliable interpreters of Scripture?????????????

God waited 1,800+ plus years to give to the world a reliable interpretation of Scripture thru YOUR MEN???? YOUR men are not the ones who have fallen away but the men who walked and talked with the Apostles fell away????????

Wow.....I don't know what to say.