Where Is Joan Rivers Now?

[Angelina]

The OP isn't meant to give you business: it's meant to give you something to
think about. If you were at all confident that God's son is a man of integrity
who can be trusted to always tell the truth; you'd know where Joan Rivers
is. The Lord's words and grammar convey information: if they didn't; then
writing them down and/or quoting them would serve no useful purpose.

That doesn't make any sense... :huh: is english your second language? Why would I want to think about someone I don't know going to heaven or hell? My confidence in Jesus has nothing to do with God's judgment of individuals. I am not God, nor am I divine. I leave such decisions to our maker and get on with my own life...

You speak of listening to God and obeying His will? Well; according to His
voice, on record at Matt 17:5, it is God's will to heed his son; which implies
trusting that what His son says is true and reliable.

...you should practice what you are preaching and heed his son rather than trying to work out whether someone is destined for heaven or hell. You decide! :huh:

 

[Enquirer]

Hmmm ok, Angelina I kind of understand where you're coming from, but do you not think that if "judgment", and that's a harsh term I
know ... is not made by Christians about a persons final destination ... then some Christian might not bother to witness ?
Because "Uncle Joes or aunt Mary were good people you know and so Jesus might have in his great mercy saved them" ?
This gives false hope to millions and the message of Christ will therefore no longer be relevant or witnessing for that fact.

No, I see this as a warning to those who don't know Christ that THEY SHOULD KNOW CHRIST, because if they don't, the consequences
will be irreversible ... hell has no fire escape.

 

[Angelina]

Personal speculation is not going to change God's decision over an individual's destination. He knows all things including everything a person has ever done in their life time. Joan has already left her earthly tent. To say whether a person is destined to heaven or hell based on our limited personal knowledge of that person is arrogant and nothing more playing God.

You can't lead people to salvation by preaching hellfire and damnation... you lead them by preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified on our behalf.

 

[Webers_Home]

You can't lead people to salvation by preaching hellfire and damnation

Hellfire and damnation are approved preaching.

†. Luke 12:4-5 . . And I say to you, my friends, do not be afraid of those
who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will
show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after He has killed, has
power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him.

you lead them by preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified on
our behalf.

Have you given any thought as to why the Jesus Christ about whom you
speak had to be crucified on your behalf?

†. Isa 66:23-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week
and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies
of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will
never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by
will view them as utterly repulsive.

The Jesus Christ about whom you speak reiterated a portion of that very
passage in one of his sermons.

†. Mark 9:47-48 . . And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having
two eyes, to be cast into hell fire where their worm does not die and the fire
is not quenched.

You're out of step with the Jesus Christ about whom you speak.

Personal Speculation

Faith doesn't speculate-- faith believes what is revealed to it.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Enquirer]

Personal speculation is not going to change God's decision over an individual's destination. He knows all things including everything a person has ever done in their life time. Joan has already left her earthly tent. To say whether a person is destined to heaven or hell based on our limited personal knowledge of that person is arrogant and nothing more playing God.

You can't lead people to salvation by preaching hellfire and damnation... you lead them by preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified on our behalf.

Correct, whatever speculation might be made is not going to change God's decision ... and God has already made his voice clear on the issue.
No faith in Christ, no salvation.
Joan Rivers never professed Christ as her saviour.

I'd like to quote an article which states the following and I quote,

"She says the real problem is not jokes, it’s genuinely anti-Semitic people, namely Rivers’ nemesis Mel Gibson. After seeing the negative portrayal
of Jews in his movie Passion of the Christ and reading about the anti-Semitic remarks he made to police officers upon being arrested for drunk
driving, she said,

He is an anti-Semitic SOB. He should *expletive* die."

I am not anti-Semitic and I do not agree with Gibson but his portrayal of Jews in The Passion of the Christ was accurate.
She had no love for Christ, whatsoever.
And people need to understand that God is not some big happy wishy-washy grandfather who just loves, loves, loves.
No, he is also a Judge and that's why Jesus went to the cross - because God demanded a price to satisfy his sense of justice.
You cannot candy coat that at all.

Again I agree It is most unfortunate that some preachers only preach the one half of God's message, that of fire and brimstone and neglect the
other half of his love and compassion ... but then again we cannot afford to just preach the other half and neglect the first half. either.

 

[Angelina]

.Luke 12:4-5 And I say to you, my friends, do not be afraid of those
who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will
show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after He has killed, has
power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him

If you read this passage again you will see that he was talking to his disciples...

Mark 9:47-48 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having
two eyes, to be cast into hell fire where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched

again...Jesus is speaking to those who are already followers of Christ. Please refer to the beginning of his discourse where he says: Mark 9:41. and finishes with this - Mark 9: 50.

Webers_

You're out of step with the Jesus Christ about whom you speak.

I think that you will find that it is you who is out of step and also taking scripture out of context... :huh:

Enquirer

Again I agree It is most unfortunate that some preachers only preach the one half of God's message, that of fire and brimstone and neglect the other half of his love and compassion ... but then again we cannot afford to just preach the other half and neglect the first half. either.

I doubt very much that Judaic Jews believe that God is wishy-washy grandfather who just loves...their history alone shows that he was not...I agree, we need to preach the full word of God however, I think that Joan will be judged according to God's knowledge and understanding of her life rather than our own personal opinions. I am just so glad that it is God who judges rather than man...

 

[Enquirer]

we need to preach the full word of God however, I think that Joan will be judged according to God's knowledge and understanding of her life rather than our own personal opinions. I am just so glad that it is God who judges rather than man...

My apologies if I get this wrong ... but are you saying that God will judge Joan Rivers based on his knowledge and understanding of her life ?
This almost sounds like you are saying that he is judging her according to her works and not faith in Christ.
This sounds very contradictory to your posts on this forum and on your blog where you come across as someone who knows the word very well and
preaches the truth, i.e. faith in Christ alone produces salvation.

 

[Angelina]

This almost sounds like you are saying that he is judging her according to her works and not faith in Christ.

No...it's not. I'm saying that God will judge her according to his knowledge and understanding of her life. Whatever that may look like because she is not a believer... God knows every heart and nothing is hidden from his sight.

This sounds very contradictory to your posts on this forum and on your blog where you come across as someone who knows the word very well and preaches the truth, i.e. faith in Christ alone produces salvation.

Now this is interesting...you have made an assumption and then you have attacked my credibility based on your first assumption. Bad form brother! :huh:

 

[Enquirer]

Like I said, my apologies if I got it wrong, because it seemed highly unlikely that that was where you were coming from, that's why I "asked" first.
Ignoring that fact .... well I'll leave that up to you.

 

[Angelina]

Reiterating this point again - "I'm glad that it is the Lord God who judges the living and the dead rather than man"

 

[cjamison]

Regardless of the faith of Joan Rivers and her daughter Melissa, the passing of Joan deeply saddened her family and friends. Her loss of life is tragic as is the passing of any woman or man and deserves our sympathy. The Golden Rule states that Joan's death deserves the compassion and understanding as we would give to a Christian or a family member.

Debating the fate of non-believers after their lives is one matter, but doing so would demand a desire to share the Word of God to men and women who are spiritually impoverished. The tone of the original poster seems to suggest he is chastising Joan for being of the Jewish faith which is callous at best and hostile and distasteful at worst.

John 3:17: Because God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

Christ would want to exhibit the grace and empathy towards Joan because she is a human being and a child of God. As another poster said, "I'm glad that it is the Lord God who judges the living and the dead rather than man." Knowing the measure God uses to judge those who are awarded heaven would comfort insecurity about our fate after death, but it is up to a being greater, more loving, more graceful than ourselves. Judging doesn't bring the kind of wealth of Spirit that allows our souls to enter Heaven. Loving does. The role of Christians is to follow the perspectives and understanding of life and people like Christ did, not to play God over the soul of another.

Look at the relationships of Christianity to other religions or and cultures through the perspective of 1 Corinthians 12:14 - 25:

For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.If they were all one member, where would the body be? But now there are many members, but one body. And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.


If 'parts of the body' is replaced with culture or religion in the verses, than it is important and encouraged by God that other religions such as Judaism, Islam, Hindu, and other 'ways' to God exist, if only to check or give Christianity another perspective into our own purpose to share the Gospel.

 

[Webers_Home]

Christ would want to exhibit the grace and empathy

People whose religion of choice is Judaism are denied the slightest bit of grace.

†. Gal 5:3 . . You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to
be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

she is a human being and a child of God

One does not become a bona fide child of God via human birth. In order to
become a real child of God; one must undergo a supernatural birth; which is
a birth denied to people whose religion of choice is Judaism.

†. John 1:11-13 . . He came to His own, and his own did not accept him. But
as many as accepted him, to them he gave the right to become children of
God; to those who believe in his name: who were born, not of blood, nor of
the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The grammatical tense of some of Christ's verbiage in this next statement of
his is past tense; indicating that people whose religion of choice is Judaism
are marked for destruction prior to their passing; viz: while they are still alive
on the hoof-- no delay, and no waiting period.

†. John 3:18 . . Whoever believes in him is not condemned; but whoever
disbelieves stands condemned already

FYI: the Bible's words and grammar convey information that's not only useful
but also reliable; otherwise writing them down, and/or quoting them would
serve no useful purpose.


Buen Camino
/

 

[cjamison]

People whose religion of choice is Judaism are denied the slightest bit of grace.

†. Gal 5:3 . . You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to
be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.



One does not become a bona fide child of God via human birth. In order to
become a real child of God; one must undergo a supernatural birth; which is
a birth denied to people whose religion of choice is Judaism.

†. John 1:11-13 . . He came to His own, and his own did not accept him. But
as many as accepted him, to them he gave the right to become children of
God; to those who believe in his name: who were born, not of blood, nor of
the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The grammatical tense of some of Christ's verbiage in this next statement of
his is past tense; indicating that people whose religion of choice is Judaism
are marked for destruction prior to their passing; viz: while they are still alive
on the hoof-- no delay, and no waiting period.

†. John 3:18 . . Whoever believes in him is not condemned; but whoever
disbelieves stands condemned already

FYI: the Bible's words and grammar convey information; otherwise writing
them down, and/or quoting them would serve no useful purpose.


Buen Camino
/

I respect your attention to the likely written original translation of the text, however your harshness of judgement towards members of Judaism alarms me. Christ is Jewish and there is no doubt He is in heaven.

Can I ask you a question, based on the response I gave do you think I am likely to be sent to Hell? Other members of the board?

Why would you believe in a God that would send billions of people to live in an excruciating hell of emotional and physical misery for eternity regardless of the teachings of the Bible or Christ?

 

[Webers_Home]

based on the response I gave do you think I am likely to be sent to Hell?

Yes.

Why would you believe in a God that would send billions of people to live in
an excruciating hell of emotional and physical misery for eternity regardless
of the teachings of the Bible or Christ?

According to the teachings of the Bible and the teachings of Christ; the
majority have not been making it to safety when they pass on.

†. Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching,
and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there
few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait
gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

†. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But
small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it.

†. Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but
indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to,
only a small number; viz: relative to many, few is the lesser.

Would you like to see what that looks like?

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Sept 19, 2012 @ 06:02 pm New
York time, the resident population in the United States was approximately
318,917,726 with a death rate of approximately one every 13 seconds;
which translates to an average of 6,646 American deaths of all ages, races,
and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths
are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 4,832 of
the current daily death rate of 6,646 per 24-hours are adults. Giving the
"many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage at
51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,464 American adults transferring to
perdition every day: which translates to roughly 103 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as the Lord didn't really specify exact
percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think:
by the time CBS completes its half-hour evening news report, a bare-bones
minimum of 51 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery regions of the
netherworld.

Extrapolating those numbers to Dec 31, 2014 suggests a total of 253,792
Americans will celebrate the coming new year in very different circumstances
than those to which they've been accustomed; and that's only counting
Americans. When their number is added to the souls pouring in from all over
the world, the tally becomes very significant.


Buen Camino
/

 

[Enquirer]

1) Christ would want to exhibit the grace and empathy towards Joan because she is a human being and a child of God.
2) Knowing the measure God uses to judge those who are awarded heaven would comfort insecurity about our fate after death ....
3) Judging doesn't bring the kind of wealth of Spirit that allows our souls to enter Heaven. Loving does.
4) The role of Christians is to follow the perspectives and understanding of life and people like Christ did, not to play God over the soul of another.
5) Look at the relationships of Christianity to other religions or and cultures through the perspective of 1 Corinthians 12:14 - 25:

For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.If they were all one member, where would the body be? But now there are many members, but one body. And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.


6) If 'parts of the body' is replaced with culture or religion in the verses, than it is important and encouraged by God that other religions such as Judaism, Islam, Hindu, and other 'ways' to God exist, if only to check or give Christianity another perspective into our own purpose to share the Gospel.

Whaaaaaat ... are you actually serious :blink: ?

1) Joan Rivers is a "creation of God", NOT a child of God ... in order to be a "child of God" you need to ACCEPT Christ, not just be born, but be BORN
AGAIN ! Do you have a Bible ?

2) "Knowing the measure God uses to judge .... ", He uses his word to judge, He does not use his feelings or emotions, He has a standard, and He
used that standard on Jesus by sending him to a cruel cross where he suffered and died a horrible death because of sin.
There was no passing over the sin of the world, there was a terrible price to pay.
God did not and does not exercise "love, love me do you know I love you" cutsie, cotton-wool snug hug me, squeeze me tight, soppy emotionalism ...
when it comes to sin ... God is a Judge, yeah that's right a Judge .... and He judges ... go and ask Jesus if you need a reference.

" ... Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.It is a fearful thing to fall into the
hands of the living God. Heb 10:30 - 31

3) "Judging does not bring ..... love does", you need to understand God's character ... like a coin that has two sides ... God is both a Judge and
Loving ... God wanted to love us and bring us into his family but his sense of justice prevented him from doing so ... and so, just like a coin that has
a rim that joins the two sides, in this case being Jesus, He was able to satisfy his justice and bring us into his love ... but his justice had to be
satisfied first.

4) Correct ... but we are not playing God ... we are ministers of reconciliation ... and we tell the world that God loves them and at the same time we
warn them of the dangers should they refuse the gift of God's love.
And in this instance the OP is simply revealing the fact that no matter who you are or how high your standing in this present world, you WILL stand
before God and be judged ... a warning to all.

5 & 6) Question ... are you really a Christian and do you read your Bible ? ... I really have to ask this ... I've heard that the Israeli Gov. has a secret group
of students that do nothing but scan forums across the world and post positive things about Israel and Jews - I am not anti-Semitic so let's put that
puppy to bed right away - but are you one of them ?

As a Christian you should KNOW that you CANNOT DO THAT WITH SCRIPTURE ... you cannot chop and change the words of Scripture to suit
your philosophy ... ever !!! ... God is serious about keeping his word as it is,

Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Prov 30: 5- 6 ... and,

“Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it. Deu 12:32

Which is what you have done ... furthermore 2 Cor 6:14,

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

This "inter-faith" let's all hold hands and sing "we are the world we are the children" baloney , belongs in file 13 ... the rubbish bin.
I apologise if I have come across as harsh or horrible but the truth of the matter is found here,

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Gal 1:6 -10

 

[cjamison]

Whaaaaaat ... are you actually serious :blink: ?

1) Joan Rivers is a "creation of God", NOT a child of God ... in order to be a "child of God" you need to ACCEPT Christ, not just be born, but be BORN
AGAIN ! Do you have a Bible ?

Forgive my poor language, I meant the former, not the latter.

2) "Knowing the measure God uses to judge .... ", He uses his word to judge, He does not use his feelings or emotions, He has a standard, and He
used that standard on Jesus by sending him to a cruel cross where he suffered and died a horrible death because of sin.
There was no passing over the sin of the world, there was a terrible price to pay.
God did not and does not exercise "love, love me do you know I love you" cutsie, cotton-wool snug hug me, squeeze me tight, soppy emotionalism ...
when it comes to sin ... God is a Judge, yeah that's right a Judge .... and He judges ... go and ask Jesus if you need a reference.

" ... Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.It is a fearful thing to fall into the
hands of the living God. Heb 10:30 - 31

Yes, God 'hates' sin. He hated so much he killed his only Son for taking on the weight of the sin of the world. That being said, my sense of love wasn't meant as a an act of leniency, but as a merciful gift to men and women who are suffering under the sorrowful weight of sin as human beings not necessarily as Christians and pagans.

3) "Judging does not bring ..... love does", you need to understand God's character ... like a coin that has two sides ... God is both a Judge and
Loving ... God wanted to love us and bring us into his family but his sense of justice prevented him from doing so ... and so, just like a coin that has
a rim that joins the two sides, in this case being Jesus, He was able to satisfy his justice and bring us into his love ... but his justice had to be
satisfied first.

True, it is not possible to really, deeply love without a sense of judgment - whether to decide if someone's act can be loved by the person loving or how to nurture the other person. But Christ didn't come to judge sinners but to save them.


Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[SIZE=.625em][i][/SIZE] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


As verse 45 says, "He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good..." Enemy doesn't necessarily have to be someone you are at war with, it can be a quality that prevents you from loving them. There are certain traits - pride, weakness of spirit, gossip, poor sense of respect - that can be overlooked by some and not by others. I do think we act in a Christ like way when at the very least we can empathize with people as human beings, struggling to do right in the name of God, same as we Christians despite their 'traits'.

4) Correct ... but we are not playing God ... we are ministers of reconciliation ... and we tell the world that God loves them and at the same time we
warn them of the dangers should they refuse the gift of God's love.
And in this instance the OP is simply revealing the fact that no matter who you are or how high your standing in this present world, you WILL stand
before God and be judged ... a warning to all.

True, everyone will be judged at some point, whether that day is the Day of Judgment prophesied by the Bible or at the end of their life. However, the issue I had with the original poster wasn't an issue of theology, but of simple human decency. Discussing the fate of someone after their life and finding a sense of righteousness in their possible descent to hell is in poor taste and unnecessary.


5 & 6) Question ... are you really a Christian and do you read your Bible ? ... I really have to ask this ... I've heard that the Israeli Gov. has a secret group
of students that do nothing but scan forums across the world and post positive things about Israel and Jews - I am not anti-Semitic so let's put that
puppy to bed right away - but are you one of them ?

As a Christian you should KNOW that you CANNOT DO THAT WITH SCRIPTURE ... you cannot chop and change the words of Scripture to suit
your philosophy ... ever !!! ... God is serious about keeping his word as it is,

I have never been thought to be in / accused of being in a secret society so I will take that as a compliment either way. lol

As far as being a Christian, I am in fact. My sense of faith is in need of repair and restoration and one of my purposes of spending time on the boards is to motivate my hunger to reimagine, restore, and expand my sense of faith. I thank you for posting and for sharing your opinions and sense of the Word in the aim to clarify my reasons.


Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Prov 30: 5- 6 ... and,

“Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it. Deu 12:32

Which is what you have done ... furthermore 2 Cor 6:14,

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

This "inter-faith" let's all hold hands and sing "we are the world we are the children" baloney , belongs in file 13 ... the rubbish bin.
I apologise if I have come across as harsh or horrible but the truth of the matter is found here,

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Gal 1:6 -10