Where the Bible does not specifically state...

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christs coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

So... I feel we have a couple of decades left in planet earth. However... I must admit that the bible does not specifically state...

1. A rapture
2. The churches as ages
3. Total justification for the works of either Jacobus Arminius or John Calvin

As the Lord says...

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7-8 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1

I therefore say that the times and the seasons that I have laid out are my opinion based upon decades of bible learning and study. The bible does not specifically state these things. It would be wise for me to take the Lord's council and watch and work, lest that day overtake me as a thief. I like the way Isaac Newton summarized his theory on the end time...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

 

[keras]

About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Bible prophesies and will insist on their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition. Quote: Sir Isaac Newton.

Your premise about the Seven Churches, I believe is correct.
The Bible prophets do give us times and seasons. Newton couldn't know the whole truth, as he lived well before the last days. Daniel 12:9

Are you prepared to believe the literal interpretation of the Sixth Seal? And all the other prophesies about that terrible Day of the Lord's wrath?
Whether you believe them or not, it will happen. Ezekiel 3:33

 

[blessedhope]

Yes> Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?
Revelations talks about it in great detail !

 

[blessedhope]

But after in chapter 3 and the churches we get this After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
very interesting! and the churches are never talked about again.

 

[blessedhope]

And the bride of Christ is there! {RAPTURE} The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne. If anyone at all knows bible prophecy and the bible, no one gets crowns in heaven other then the church!> you can slice it dice it deny it or anything you want >no one get crowns but the church.

 

[blessedhope]

And 1 - CROWN 1 - CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS— LOVED THE LORD'S APPEARING - 2 Tim 4:8
2 - CROWN 2 - INCORRUPTIBLE CROWN— DISCIPLINED BODIES / SELF-CONTROL - 1 Cor 9:25-27
3 - CROWN 3 - CROWN OF LIFE— ENDURED PATIENTLY THRU TRIALS - James 1:12, Rev 2:10
4 - CROWN 4 - CROWN OF GLORY— GODLY LEADERS WHO WERE EXAMPLES TO FLOCK - 1 Pet 5:2-4
5 - CROWN 5 - CROWN OF REJOICING— SOUL WINNERS CROWN - 1 Thess 2:19, Dan 12:3
6 - CROWN & REWARDS— 6 FACTS:
7 - REWARDS FOR THOSE WHO WIN THE RACE,PRIZE OF ETERNAL LIFE Phil 3:12-14, 1 Cor 9:24-27
8 - REWARDS FROM JESUS FOR OVERCOMERS - 8 SCRIPTURES ON BEING AN OVERCOMER - Rev 21:7
(Rev 2:7, Rev 2:11, Rev 2:17, Rev 2:26, Rev 3:5, Rev 3:12, Rev 3:21, Rev 21:7)

 

[rockytopva]

The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. -Proverbs 26:7

Isaac Newton wrote extensively on biblical studies. When he would come to a conclusion he did so with a spirit of humility with his conclusions professionally stated. His answers also blended with the rest of the bible and made sense. This is different from some of the Protestant reformers who had no humility at all... Who thought that just because they spent their entire life on a work made them correct... And who would hate and martyr those who would dare to refute them.

 

[Retrobyter]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christs coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

So... I feel we have a couple of decades left in planet earth. However... I must admit that the bible does not specifically state...

1. A rapture
2. The churches as ages
3. Total justification for the works of either Jacobus Arminius or John Calvin

As the Lord says...

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7-8 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1

I therefore say that the times and the seasons that I have laid out are my opinion based upon decades of bible learning and study. The bible does not specifically state these things. It would be wise for me to take the Lord's council and watch and work, lest that day overtake me as a thief. I like the way Isaac Newton summarized his theory on the end time...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Shalom, rockytopva.

Sorry, but no. These seven churches were LITERAL churches that existed in Asia Minor (present-day Turkey) in the first century A.D. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seven_churches_of_asia.svg.) These were seven COEXISTING churches that were on a circular route from the Isle of Patmos, hence their order.

Sometimes, we must study HISTORY and GEOGRAPHY besides studying the Bible.

If you don't, you will ALWAYS fall for these allegorical interpretations of Scripture.

 

[Retrobyter]

The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. -Proverbs 26:7

Isaac Newton wrote extensively on biblical studies. When he would come to a conclusion he did so with a spirit of humility with his conclusions professionally stated. His answers also blended with the rest of the bible and made sense. This is different from some of the Protestant reformers who had no humility at all... Who thought that just because they spent their entire life on a work made them correct... And who would hate and martyr those who would dare to refute them.

Shalom, rockytopva.

Yes, much as did their Catholic predecessors. They learned from their peers, who hated and martyred those Protestant Reformers who dared to refute them, especially on Luther's 95 theses! You can say an awful lot to a person with impunity UNTIL you touch their pocketbooks! Frankly, the Catholics were making lots of money selling indulgences. It was a profitable scheme, even if it was unbiblical, and Luther dared "to call them on the carpet!"

Sir Isaac Newton would have been the first to tell you that he was not a prophet of God. He saw a TREND and whether that trend would turn out to be positive or negative, only God knew.

 

[rockytopva]

I can only make a case for the seven churches and seek to provide evidence of such cases as true...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. - Revelation 2

Example in the church of Smyrna the persecutions were ten... Exactly ten as outlined in the Foxes Book of Martyrs...

Ye Shall Have Tribulation Ten Days…
Time Persecutor Description
67 AD Nero The Smyrna Church Age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, and then blaming the Christians
81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Paul’s Timothy died in 97 AD.
108 AD Trajan and Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of the Bishop Ignatius
162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the will and prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps
249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity, and with the heathen temples forsaken.
257 AD Valerian The martyrs that fell during this persecution were innumerable, their tortures and deaths painful.
274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperor’s assassination.
303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine’s triumph against Rome in 313 AD

 

[rockytopva]

I can only make a case for the seven churches and seek to provide evidence of such cases as true...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

There is also a difference in the first two churches. We find that the folk in the Messianic church has little to do with those in the Gentile church...

But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? - Galatians 2:14

The first church of the Jews did not have a lot to do with the second church of the Gentiles. It did not even seem that the first church wanted to eat with those of the second. This was a pattern to come for the full seven churches....

The Messianic Jew had little to do with the early Gentile church.
The Orthodox Church had little to do with the Catholic church
The Protestant Church had little to with the first four churches... Messianic, Persecuted, Orthodox, and Catholic.
The Protestant Church and the Revived church of the great awakening were at odds, especially names like Calvin and Arminius.

I would say, that here in Laodicean times, that people really do not care a whole lot about doctrine. So it is possible in our time that the churches will unite again as one.

 

[rockytopva]

I have had biblical studies applied to me all my life. In my youngest of days my parents bought the SDA's Uncle Arthurs bible study and I read the entire volumes. After reading endless volumes at the Virginia Tech library, and my bible through seven times I have come up with some conclusions...

1. That the churches came about in ages. And each church movement is unique and encapsulated within its borders... They normally do not fellowship with those outside their denominational walls...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate. Issues, yes, but we all have our issues. This is a Christian church all the same.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

2. That Isaac Newton was closest in the 'when it will all end' predictions....

a. Christmas day 2060 is a good date for Christ to come again
b. Christmas day 2053 is a good date for the rapture to happen...

However... I must leave the door open for God to do what he wants to do...

a. Christ could come back for his church today
b. Christ could come back for his church 100 years from now.

And have the humility to say that these are my best predictions, and that in the end God will do what he wants to do.

 

[Retrobyter]

I can only make a case for the seven churches and seek to provide evidence of such cases as true...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. - Revelation 2

Example in the church of Smyrna the persecutions were ten... Exactly ten as outlined in the Foxes Book of Martyrs...

Ye Shall Have Tribulation Ten Days…
Time Persecutor Description
67 AD Nero The Smyrna Church Age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, and then blaming the Christians
81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Paul’s Timothy died in 97 AD.
108 AD Trajan and Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of the Bishop Ignatius
162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the will and prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps
249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity, and with the heathen temples forsaken.
257 AD Valerian The martyrs that fell during this persecution were innumerable, their tortures and deaths painful.
274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperor’s assassination.
303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine’s triumph against Rome in 313 AD

Shalom, rockytopva.

Sorry, bro', but you're reading FAR too much into these seven letters to the seven groups of people in these towns of Asia Minor. You're doing the same thing that the Jewish mysticism of the Medieval time period did with their Kabbalah!

 

[Ac28]

Assigning ages to each of those churches in Revelation is an "application" of scripture. Applications are always subjective. Like someone said, "There are many applications to a passage but only one interpretation." Also, there is no prophecy being fulfilled during this 2000 year present age that we live in. The last fulfillment of prophecy was the destruction of Jerusalem (actually, the temple) in 70AD. The next will be the tribulation. When prophecy is fufulled, people know about it. Anyone saying that prophecy is being fulfilled now is only listening to the traditions of men. Once you start believing things outside of the Bible, the truth gets very iffy. The only source of guaranteed truth in the created universe is the Bible.