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Featured Where Will Jesus Return?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by kcnalp, Sep 13, 2020.

  1. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
    1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, ...
    2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;...
    3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
    4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

    Jesus will return to Israel, right where He left!
     
  2. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    This event is speaking of his coming to the Earth after the millennium and touching down. This is when the wicked will be resurrected for judgement.....this is his third coming.

    At his second coming he will not touch down. He will come in the clouds and call all his saints to himself, returning to heaven as described in 1 Thess. 4:16-17.
     
  3. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Third coming? Eh!

    There is a purpose for Gods Specific Names, Titles, Descriptions ...
    Keep in remembrance God is Omnipresent.
    ORDER and Context of what is highlighted and Why.

    * God SENT His Word To Earth...in the Beginning of Mankind, for man To Hear.
    * Again God SENT His Word To Earth...in the Likeness as a man, for Earthly man To Hear and See.

    Follow each step, as the People of that Era were hearing and seeing.
    ...what?
    A Son of Man.
    ...Son of what men?
    Joseph, king David, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham.
    ...discover the WHY for each step, each person in direct association with this Son of Man.
    ...what was Foretold, and being Revealed...as Knowledge or Physical Sight to Earthly men.
    (Come to pass, is what Earthly men can See)

    Numb 11:
    [23] And the LORD said unto Moses, Is the LORD's hand waxed short? thou shalt see now whether my word shall come to pass unto thee or not.

    The Only thing Physically revealed...
    Was one called the "Son of Man".
    And foreknowledge...of things He would Be Called.

    The Son of Man was witnessed Being Revealed ON Earth.
    The Son of Man was witnessed Rising Up off the Earth toward the Clouds.
    * The Son of Man Shall Return to Earth "with something", He DID NOT, come to Earth "with" the First time, The Son of Man was Revealed, ON Earth.

    The Son of Man, was Sent to Earth...without "His Reputation"...but men ON Earth Learned About His Reputation....yet still only Seeing, The Son of Man.

    At the Son of Man's (Return/2nd Coming TO Earth, His Reputation, is "WITH" Him.
    His Reputation? POWER.
    (Which Shall be After the millennial Reign)

    Who is the POWER of God?
    CHRIST.

    Phil 2:
    [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant , and was made in the likeness of men:

    1 Cor 1:
    [24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

    Matt 24:
    [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of manin heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven [/B] with power [/B] and great glory.

    Mary delivered the Son of Man.
    That Body once Delivered, was Prophecy come to pass.
    Once Born, separated from Mary's Womb...Knowledge was Revealed, He is the Christ....but that knowledge has NOT come to pass, He has not been seen by men ON Earth.

    Did any Human man SEE Christ? No.

    So Who is with the 144,000 on Mt Sion/Zion during the Trib? "A Lamb."

    Who Descends From Heaven TO the Clouds, and catches up to Him, those IN Christ?
    "The Lord."

    It hinges on What knowledge is Revealed, and What men Wiil Believe Without Seeing.

    People of this Era have Scripture at their fingertips...they mesh what Has come to pass, with knowledge they heard, and believe, but has not come to pass.

    Men Teach Mary Delivered God out of Her Womb, and she IS the Mother of God???

    Really? If that were True, why did not Mary, Joseph, The Shepherds, The 3 Kings from the East, and Everyone else who Looked at Him ...instantly Die?

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  4. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Many questions, many positions....it behooves us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling while looking forward to the hope set before us. No second chances, no three times and you're out. We stand on the cusp of Eternity!
     
    kcnalp likes this.
  5. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    That is not true. Jesus appearing and Coming are 2 specific events. He came/appeared once and will again as we read below. His 2nd Coming and future appearing are one in the same event.


    epiphanea- His appearance or appearing

    2 Thes 2:8
    8
    Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

    1 Tim 6:14
    14
    that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

    2 Tim 1:10
    10
    but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,

    2 Tim 4:1
    I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

    2 Tim 4:8
    8
    in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

    Titus 2:13
    13
    looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,



    Parousia- His Coming

    Matt 24:3
    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    Matt 24:27
    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Matt 24:37
    37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Matt 24:39
    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    1 Cor 15:23
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    1 Thess 2:19
    19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

    1 Thess 3:13
    13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

    1 Thess 4:15
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    1 Thess 5:23
    23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    2 Thess 2:1
    2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    2 Thess 2:8
    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

    James 5:7
    7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

    James 5:8
    8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

    2 Peter 1:16
    16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

    2 Peter 3:4
    4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    1 John 2:28-29
    28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

    And 2 Thessalonians 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

    2 Thes 2:8
    8
    Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

    1 Peter 1:7
    7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    What is known as the " rapture " has nothing to do with His appearing or His Coming. His 1st Coming was in Peace and His 2nd Coming is in vengeance with a rod of iron.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    What poor handling of the word of God. LISTEN and UNDERSTAND.
    #1. Epiphanes, it means "God Manifest". THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPEN.

    #2. Parousia, it means HIS SECOND "APPERANCE" AT HIS COMING.

    please understand the difference.

    #1. his Epiphanes happen on the day of Pentecost. supportive scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
    John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"

    well the world didn't see him, the Lord Jesus, when he came on Pentecost, because it was in the Spirit, meaning the out pouring of the Spiritual Gifts. listen, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." BINGO, there is that "Manifestation" that Judas asked about, and fulfilled on Pentecost. and three of the Spiritual gifts was manifested on the day of Pentecost. SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE

    Now his Parousia. supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." BINGO. this is the escond coming where "EVERY" eye will see him, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

    see his first coming in "APPERANCE" happen, Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him." yes, that consolation is the comforter that came in flesh. SEE HOW THE BIBLE COME FULL CIRCLE, NO CONTRIDICTION.

    so all that nonsense of the scriptures you quoted is just that, NONESENSE. again all you fellas, Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat."
    Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe."
    Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

    so get his return RIGHT.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

    Another successful sabotage operation.
     
  7. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    I quoted the words and how they are used in their context. And this passage links them together as the SAME EVENT.

    And 2 Thessalonians 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

    2 Thes 2:8
    8
    Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

    hope this helps !!!
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    his ἐπιφάνεια epipháneia, ep-if-an'-i-ah; from G2016; is a manifestation which has nothing to do with his Parousia.

    this is what I'm talking about. our Lord's return is two fold. 1st. in Manifestation which happen on Petecost. and his return in, in, in, "Apperance", which has not yet happen.

    so his epipháneia, "manifestation" has already happen. his second coming in "apperance" or Parousia has not yet happen.

    so they are not the same event.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  9. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    Paul declared it is, next..............................

    And 2 Thessalonians 2:8 links both His appearing / coming as the same event of Christ. Both epiphenea and parousia together below in the same verse.

    2 Thes 2:8
    8
    Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

    hope this helps !!!
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    My God didn't I just say that. listen his second coming is is in "APPERANCE",

    I see what you're speaking of.
    G2015 ἐπιφάνεια epiphaneia (e-piy-fa'-nei-a) n.
    1. a manifestation.
    2. (specially) the advent of Christ (past or future).
    [from G2016]
    KJV: appearing, brightness
    Root(s): G2016

    see it's HIS APPERANCE at his coming is "BRIGHTNESS". look and understand, 2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

    the brightness is his "APPERANCE". the same word is used in 2 Timothy 1:10 "But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:"

    or this, the same word, 2 Timothy 4:1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"

    see the btightness is not his MANIFESTATION of himself, but the effect of his "APPEARING".

    see, his Manifesting of HIMSELF is not in "apperance" of himself. understand now.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  11. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    you are twisting scripture here just like you do when denying the Trinity.

    another passage which supports me and opposes you Paul which confirms its the same event the Blessed Hope and Return of Christ at His 2nd Coming

    Titus 2:13
    13
    looking( waiting) for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,


    Expositor's Greek Testament
    Titus 2:13.

    επιφάνειαν τῆς δόξης: The Second Coming of Christ will be, as we are assured by Himself, “in the glory of His Father” (Matthew 16:27; Mark 8:38). “We rejoice in the hope of the glory of God” (Romans 5:2, a passage which supports the view that δόξης here is dependent on ἐπλίδα as well as on ἐπιφάνειαν). von Soden takes ἐπιφάνειαν as epexegetical of ἐλπίδα. The Second Coming of Christ may, therefore, be regarded as an ἐπιφάνεια τῆς δόξης Θεοῦ, even though we should not speak of an ἐπιφάνεια τοῦ Πατρός, while ἐπιφάνεια Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ is normal and natural (See on 1 Timothy 6:14). τῆς δόξης having then an intelligible meaning, we are not entitled to treat it as merely adjectival, the glorious appearing (A.V.). The genitival relation does not differ in this case from τῇ ἐπιφανείᾳ τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    so, notice how everyone here speaks in unassailable facts, that leave no room for enquiry or denial
     
  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Appearing: G2015 ἐπιφάνεια epiphaneia (e-piy-fa'-nei-a) n.
    1. a manifestation.
    2. (specially) the advent of Christ (past or future).
    [from G2016]
    KJV: appearing, brightness

    the GREAT GOD is Jesus Christ.

    see your mistake, you're trying to use epiphanea as a coming itself when in fact it's just his brightness at his coming, NOT HIS COMING as you are trying to use. listen, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
    Manifest:
    G1718 ἐμφανίζω emphanizo (em-fa-niy'-zō) v.
    to exhibit (in person) or disclose (by words).
    [from G1717]
    KJV: appear, declare (plainly), inform, (will) manifest, shew, signify
    Root(s): G1717

    NOW, did the Holy Ghost "appear" twice? or did he Manifest ONCE?

    see the Lord Jesus appeared ONCE ALREADY, and soon to "appear" again". but the Lord Jesus has already "Manifested" once.... :eek:

    his second Parousia is yet to come, (see Revelation 1:7)

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  14. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    the mistakes are yours as Paul pointed out in the scriptures I quoted.
     
  15. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    That is true but this is where discernment comes into play and see who is defending a pet doctrine. Many scriptures were provided that link the Appearing and coming of Jesus together as one future event @ His 2nd Coming.
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    a Manifestation is not an apperance. and either can happen at a "COMMING".

    but when you tried to use the manifetation for a coming that your error not mine or paul's.
    understand once more, a Parousia is not a epiphanea. for the Holy Ghost came on Penetcost, but did he "appear for every eye to see him? no, so a coming is not an apperance as in our Lords second coming

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  17. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    didn't say the words were the same, I said they will be at the same event His 2nd Coming when He appears.
     
  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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  19. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    LOOK Christophany I see what you're try to say, but you're saying it the wrong way. see his apperance is the result of his coming the second time, and not his actual coming is defined by his apperance. can you see that now.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  20. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    let me help you out ok, listen,
    2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

    COMPARE SPIRITUAL WITH SPIRITUAL, now this.

    Isaiah 11:4 "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked."

    now read both commentaries on each verse.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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