Which bible teachings do you think are made up by the church or true teachings of the bible?

[St. SteVen]

1 ) adultery breaks the marrige Covenant

Interesting that Jesus didn't mention that. See the KJV. (better match to the Greek)

The bigger issue here, and to stay on topic...
The church typically tells us that the only grounds for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But Jesus said the only grounds for divorce is fornication. (sex before marriage by the woman)
- What do you make of that?
- What do you make of verse ten?

Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

/

 

[MatthewG]

The problem here is that if i bring up bible teachings, someone will come along and oppose it with white knuckles.
As you just asserted, Jesus is either not coming back, or your "interpretation" is the only correct one ( which it is not)

Rebuilder, what people believe is between them and God. Its the scriptures that proclaims Jesus was coming back then to save the bride: so while people reject that, as long as one can Love God and love others. That is what is important, you can even show people the scriptures pertaining to the subject snd they still reject.

“Its not worth fighting over, but knowing the truth over the fighting against tradtional teachings” could be worthwhile.

Truth seems to be more worth looking into.

In the end its simple what is one hope and faith in; some hope and have faith to see the world destroyed. Some hope to be part of the great tribulation, so on and so forth. Some hope to raptured, etc…

To me there is no reason to hope for those things, but hope in the living God to help by the holy spirit of God and Spirit of Christ, as you go through life until the day you die and to go be with God in the kingdom in the heavenly realm.

 

[jessicaleks93]

This is a very generic non information question.

you say as we know, but fail to show any chops or changes due to power, politics etc. You need to specify things in order to have a discussion. Otherwise you are opening this up to everyones opinions and feelings.

I can see you're from America, so in the UK and Europe, where we have kings and queens, throughout history here thats where chops and changes have been made.

 

[jessicaleks93]

Thank you posting this provocative question. Although it is not clear what your motivation is, let’s focus instead on the essential truths of the Bible.

The Bible is a book about God: who He is, His expectations for all of us, and His promises to us. God loves us, and we can demonstrate our love for God by loving our neighbors (sharing & caring, being gentle & kind, and embracing lifetime, monogamous marriages between women and men).

The Bible tells us that God accomplishes His purposes for us by working through people, even the least likely and including those who oppose Him. (See, e.g., the books of Ruth and Esther.)

We also learn that our basic nature is to be self-centered, to be covetous, and to rationalize our covetousness. Overcoming our base nature is a lifetime of struggle, but with God’s help it is possible.

Some people believe that if even one thing in the Bible is not God’s word, then we cannot trust any of it. Perhaps they would prefer to decide their own versions of the good versus the bad (just like all the other social animals).

Peace and blessing.

So my motivation is to learn the true word of the bible, not the church. Because I trust God's word over mans. I don't think having one or even a handful of mans word in the bible means its untrue, those are the parts I'd like to weed out, because I believe the vast majority of the bible to be true.

 

[jessicaleks93]

'My sheep hear my voice'.....Jesus

This is my favorite answer, you're spot on there

 

[jessicaleks93]

C

Jesus is coming back, is a traditionally taught misguided sermon in church, in my opinion today.

Could expand on that?

 

[jessicaleks93]

Welcome to the forum.
Interesting topic, thanks.

Here's one that comes to mind.
The church teaches that the only grounds for divorces is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But that is not what Jesus actually said.

The basis for this teaching is found in Matthew 19:9
See the NIV translation below, taking note of verse 10 as well as verse 9. (at the very bottom of this post)
Then compare the KJV below that. Note the use of the word "fornication" which matches the NT Greek.

This makes a HUGE difference, especially when considering the cultural setting of the Israelites under the law.
Jesus was saying that the only grounds for divorce is fornication, which is sexual intercourse before marriage. (not after)
What does this mean? Both in the historical context and to the misinterpretation assigned by the church today. ???

For the Israelites, a bride's parents presented her as a virgin to her husband-to-be. The law of Moses made a provision for this.
If the husband-to-be discovered that he had been given a bride that was not a virgin, he could divorce her. (for fornication)
Unfortunately, some new husbands were making false claims in order to divorce their new brides. The fornication loophole.
Parents were allowed to challenge this claim if it was false. See Deuteronomy 22:16-18

Therefore, the KJV translation is correct and the church got it wrong.
Jesus said there is no grounds for divorce except for fornication. Now read verse 10 again.
Better not to marry? Indeed. Not if you have ANY plans to divorce.

Matthew 19:8-10 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

--- COMPARE ---

Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

/

Very interesting!! Great example, so am I understanding it correctly that the correct version in KJV is saying you can only divorce your wife if she fornicates (has sex) with another man and therefore commits adultery but any man who marries her after is also committing adultery? Meaning there is no true divorce then?

 

[St. SteVen]

Very interesting!! Great example, so am I understanding it correctly that the correct version in KJV is saying you can only divorce your wife if she fornicates (has sex) with another man and therefore commits adultery but any man who marries her after is also committing adultery? Meaning there is no true divorce then?

That's close. But...

Fornication is sex BEFORE marriage. And this ties into the Jewish law of the time when Jesus said it.
The law of Moses actually had a provision for men to divorce a woman for evidence of fornication PRIOR to their wedding.
We also need to understand that in that day and time, women were considered to be the property of men.
So...

Jesus is saying the only grounds for divorce is for a MAN to divorce his new bride for fornication.
That is, having sex before they were wed. There is no provision for a wife to divorce her husband that I am aware of.
It was also common for men to have concubines (sex slaves) and see prostitutes.
As you can see the culture was VERY different from ours. Thankfully so, I suppose.

So, in terms of the church understanding Jesus' teaching and giving us his prescriptive, they have failed.
I'm not saying we should adopt Jewish law, but I don't think Jesus would agree that adultery is grounds for divorce.
Adultery is grounds for forgiveness. Assuming repentance by the perpetrator.

Does that make sense?

/

 

[MatthewG]

C

Could expand on that?

Sure, Jessica.

When a person takes time to read and discover what is said in the Gospel of Christ, which are provided to them by the use of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. When reading about the good news, and dreaded news which would instate that "great and dreadful day of Yahava", which was written about in Malachi, which also spoke of the promise of John coming, in the spirit of Elijah, and preparing the way for the Lord.

“See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes." Malachi 4:5

This is a sign to all the Pharisees, that were claiming to have faith, yet misusing their powers, and doing wrong in the sight of Yahava, (the LORD). With their proud heart, and adulteress ways in worshiping other idols and gods, than the living God. There was going to be a great and dreadful day of the LORD, which would come upon them.

What is it about this great and dreadful day of Yahava? It would be when the final day, which Yeshua, would come in through the clouds, and those who were watching, waiting faithfully, seen him and were translated from the great tribulation which they were under, and the rest that were left, were left to suffer the Wrath of God.

During that time, when Jesus was proclaiming the good news, he told of many prophecies which would come forward in their day and it would be signs of the times of the end, in which was not the end of the world but the end of an age, which would be considered the Mosasic Law ran age. No more priesthoods, no more sacrifices. God was going to divorce, Israel and I personally believe that this happened in 70AD, when the Temple in Jerusalem had fallen down just as Jesus had promised would come to happen.

These are all something one can investigate through history, during the times of the Gospel, the Apostles also wrote letters, and there are records that suggest these people whom are written to, were going to go through a tribulation which would never be so great again, while plagues continued to fall upon Jerusalem, leaving 1,000,000 and to me personally, all the twelve tribes were gone, with those who were faithful taken up to not experience the wrath of God which abided on them at that time, for killing the Son of God.

I believe that Jesus would have came, as promised, as seen in the Gospel of Christ and also, the other letters of the apostles, where not wrong, and Jesus was not wrong about his return quickly, and by faith to me he was able to gather them, and establish a new economy which is totally heavenly, with a City, and outside of the City.



There are many people who tend to believe that Jesus is still coming, and I do not understand why.

 

[St. SteVen]

I turned my post here into a topic.

Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

.

 

[Bob]

So my motivation is to learn the true word of the bible, not the church. Because I trust God's word over mans. I don't think having one or even a handful of mans word in the bible means its untrue, those are the parts I'd like to weed out, because I believe the vast majority of the bible to be true.

Thank you for your post.

It is good to question scripture, in order to understand it better, and to understand God’s expectations better.

This forum is a great place to raise issues and ask for commentary. There are a number of serious Bible scholars to interact with.

We hope you will continue to read the Bible as well as commentaries.

An online resource you might like is www.truthforlife.org, which also has detailed audio sermons on all of the major passages of scripture.

Peace and Grace.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Well I dont know about personal gain but I came across a few sites that showed what doctrines and traditions are not sanctioned and here is a few pagan practices that were brought in:

• The rituals and practices of a priesthood to intercede and rule over the laity
• A infallible vicar of Christ
• Rote prayer
• The Rosary (rote prayer to Mary for intercession)
• Scapulars
• Indulgences
• Worship of Mary (in reality this pagan goddess with child pre-existed Mary and was known as the Queen of Heaven)
• Holy Rituals
• Sacraments
• Holy water
• The mission, practices, and methods of the Jesuits
• Eucharistic Christ (The bread and wine becoming the body and blood of Christ whenever conjured up by a priest)

And its not just practices but the ideas behind them, take for example the use of 'Saints' by some Christians.

Here are some of the examples: San Serapio was used to appealed to in case of stomach-ache; Santa Polonia for tooth-ache; San Jose, San Juan Bautista and Santa Catalina for headache; San Bernardo and San Cirilo for indigestion; San Luis for cholera; San Francisco for colic; San Ignacio and Santa Lutgarda for childbirth; Santa Balsania for scrofula; San Felix for ulcers; Santa Agueda for nursing mothers; San Babilas for burns; San Gorge for an infected cut; Santa Quiteria for dog's bite; San Ciriaco for diseases of the ear; Santa Lucia for the eyes; San Pedro for fever; and Santa Rita for the impossible and on and on. Some of the early Christians themselves protested against the cult of the Saints: for example, Vigilantius and Faustus in the fifth century. But on the other side were such great apologists as Augustine, Jerome, Ambrose, Chrysostom, and Basil, who though claiming that God alone was worshipped, expressed full belief in the efficacy of the intercession of the Saints.

Going to the festivals which were brought in, there are some specific festivals that go back directly to pagan customs connected with the dead. All Saints' Day, was observed on the the Roman festival of the dead, the Lemuria. In the modern festival the faithful visit the tombs of the Saints, venerate their relics, and pray for their blessing. The next day also, the second of November, All Souls' Day, unquestionably reproduces some of the features of the Parentalia. The Parentalia or dies parentales ("ancestral days") was a nine-day festival held to honor the dead ancestors with visits to tombs and sacred offerings. It got into the church, and Christians went to the cemeteries and decked the graves of the members of their family with flowers and candles, and there were ceremonies which took the place of the ancient sacrifice, directed to the repose of the souls of the departed. It just goes on and on....

Good reply,

But how about Protestant specific?

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Some people believe that if even one thing in the Bible is not God’s word, then we cannot trust any of it.

Peace and blessing.

I would have to tell those people it is up to them to prove whatever is not God's word.

So many go looking for an easy out.

To that I say Some people are just plain stupid.

 

[JohnDB]

As we know the books of the bible, translations and bible teachings have been chopped and changed throughout history due to power / political gain. Which parts of the bible / teachings do you think are not true teachings of the bible but that of the church that were put in there for personal gain in history?

Jesus was a carpenter.
Chapter and verse divisions.
Matthew 19 (king Henry VIII and his wives)
Jesus walking on water.

Yep....those 4 are the majors.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Interesting that Jesus didn't mention that. See the KJV. (better match to the Greek)

The bigger issue here, and to stay on topic...
The church typically tells us that the only grounds for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But Jesus said the only grounds for divorce is fornication. (sex before marriage by the woman)
- What do you make of that?
- What do you make of verse ten?

Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

/

Classic case of twisting original intent to fit a need.

You simply can not separate the fact that it is wrong for a married woman oir a married man to be screwing around with someone other then their legal spouse.

Fornication , to me, has always been a more acceptable term then the "f" word.

No matter your technical interpretation it all boils down to the same thing. A wife or a husband has no business evb+ven holding hands with someone that is not their spouse for
that can lead to holding other things which can lead to a very valid reason for divorce.

Webster states

fornication​

noun​

for·ni·ca·tion ˌfȯr-nə-ˈkā-shən

Synonyms of fornication
: consensual (see CONSENSUAL sense 2) sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

and further comment

In legal use there is a difference between adultery and fornication. Adultery is only used when at least one of the parties involved (either male or female) is married, whereas fornication may be used to describe two people who are unmarried (to each other or anyone else) engaging in consensual sexual intercourse.

Note it says may be, not definitively for singles.

You said
"
But Jesus said the only grounds for divorce is fornication. (sex before marriage by the woman)

Webster says you are wrong.

Perhaps Jesus should have come down to the dirt for understanding ease and simply said
the only grounds for divorce is f-ing around.

Cannot help but wonder how badly Jesus and God view spouse abuse... like spliting her lip...OR ( true story) hubby throwing the pregnant wife down the stairs)?

Or child abuse. Not all child abuse is sexual... there is very serious beating up of the kids
that happens every day....

But the church will tell you you have to stay married.....

OK, I digress. I went OT with a truth...

Ignore me and carry on .

 

[JohnDB]

Classic case of twisting original intent to fit a need.

You simply can not separate the fact that it is wrong for a married woman oir a married man to be screwing around with someone other then their legal spouse.

Fornication , to me, has always been a more acceptable term then the "f" word.

No matter your technical interpretation it all boils down to the same thing. A wife or a husband has no business evb+ven holding hands with someone that is not their spouse for
that can lead to holding other things which can lead to a very valid reason for divorce.

Webster states

fornication​

noun​

for·ni·ca·tion ˌfȯr-nə-ˈkā-shən

Synonyms of fornication
: consensual (see CONSENSUAL sense 2) sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

and further comment

In legal use there is a difference between adultery and fornication. Adultery is only used when at least one of the parties involved (either male or female) is married, whereas fornication may be used to describe two people who are unmarried (to each other or anyone else) engaging in consensual sexual intercourse.

Note it says may be, not definitively for singles.

You said
"
But Jesus said the only grounds for divorce is fornication. (sex before marriage by the woman)

Webster says you are wrong.

Perhaps Jesus should have come down to the dirt for understanding ease and simply said
the only grounds for divorce is f-ing around.

Cannot help but wonder how badly Jesus and God view spouse abuse... like spliting her lip...OR ( true story) hubby throwing the pregnant wife down the stairs)?

Or child abuse. Not all child abuse is sexual... there is very serious beating up of the kids
that happens every day....

But the church will tell you you have to stay married.....

OK, I digress. I went OT with a truth...

Ignore me and carry on .

When Jesus said this polygamy was a common practice amongst the Jews.

And later Paul when speaking to Timothy living in the Greek culture said a "husband of only one wife" meaning that the man did not have a concubine/consort which was common in that culture....meaning: Paul referred to the consort as a wife even though the Roman/Greek culture did not.

Sorry to muddy the waters but truthfully it's today's society that has muddied the waters with its rather restrictive interpretation of scriptures.

And truthfully,
People want hard and fast "line in the sand" type regulations instead of compassion and caring and abstinence from perversion. It's much easier for them to follow.

But there are no new rules set up by Jesus. He didn't retire the Old Laws just to institute new ones. It wasn't a rewrite of existing laws. That's not God.

If anything it's a much more restrictive set of laws because your heart is what is judged....not your actions anymore. And just because a person follows the rules has no bearing on whether they are granted access into heaven.
Just saying...

 

[Bob]

I would have to tell those people it is up to them to prove whatever is not God's word.

So many go looking for an easy out.

To that I say Some people are just plain stupid.

Thank you, as always, for your comments.

Let’s try the following: Is the genealogy in the Bible between Abraham and Adam & Eve God’s word? Some Christians believe that it implies God could not have created Adam & Eve over 50,000 years ago (as hunter-gatherers). Yet I believe that from that time until about 12,000 years ago, all (tribal) people lived as hunter-gatherers; moreover, with God’s help, some tribes throughout the world began transitioning to agriculture after that.

I cannot explain my Biblical genealogy dilemma, but that doesn’t affect my belief that God loves me, and He wants me to show my love for Him by loving my neighbors.

Peace and blessings.

 

[Marymog]

Which parts of the bible / teachings do you think are not true teachings of the bible but that of the church that were put in there for personal gain in history?

None

 

[DJT_47]

Just look at the catholic church's beliefs and there you'll find a myriad of things

 

[Pearl]

No bible teachings are made up by the church. It is stuff that isn't even in the bible that they have made up. And obviously some scriptures have been misinterpreted by certain parts of the church.