Who’s words are these?
- Thread starter Matthias
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John14:10
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
To me the Father and the Son are intertwined in a way I can not break Them asunder . The verse above points to that .
Jesus was God in the flesh on earth .
I asked whether you were aware that the NT contains additional revelation about God, and you replied by repeating your assertion. If you don't like the word deflection, call it what you will.
Much love!
I look to the Bible itself and I look at commentaries written by trinitarians. I recommend, as you know, that my readers do the same.
You've stated that since Jesus spoke the Father's words, that the "I" in those words means the Father. That is, I will rebuild it in 3 days refers to the Father, because it was the Father's words.
However in my example, "If I be lifted up (crucified) . . ." by your reasoning, it would be the Father who was crucified. This is patently false, and renders false your argument.
You can couch your claim as some "appeal to . . .", but it doesn't past muster considering the Bible itself.
Much love!
I agree with that, but I do so from the perspective of Jewish monotheism.
When we read the Bible we are reading the writings of Jewish monotheists. To properly understand the Bible, I suggest, we should think as the writers themselves did.
Yahweh wasn’t crucified and Yahweh cannot die.
Jesus was crucified and died when he was.
Dead men don’t resurrect themselves.
Yahweh vindicated Jesus by resurrecting him from the dead.
My assertion is correct. There is no revelation in the New Testament that the God of Israel is someone other than who he was known to be in the Hebrew Bible.
You are merely restating your assertions, but this is not what the Bible teaches. I think this is clear. You need not reply, or feel free if you like. I've said what I came to say.
The NT writers showed what they thought in the words they wrote, inspired by God, with specific statements showing us Who Jesus is. You can imagine anything you like, but I hold to the constraints of the Biblical teachings.
Much love!
PS95
Well-Known Member
The spirit of Christ and God do not live in you?
Sure you do constantly try to divide and as a matter of fact it seems that most if not all of your posts focus on doing that very thing.
It's really a shame. You also tend to ignore scriptures posted to you and post of lot of quotes of man.
I’ve used the concession of trinitarian sources to show that my assertion is what the Bible teaches.
The NT writers were Jewish monotheists. You can imagine that Jewish monotheists are trinitarians but they aren’t.
They do.
I’m presenting Jewish monotheism, which isn’t compatible with trinitarianism. In other words, the division is inherent in the respective theologies.
I don’t ignore any scripture that is posted to me. All scripture - OT and NT - is written from the perspective of Jewish monotheism.
It’s true that I post a lot of quotes of man. With very few exceptions, the men that I quote are trinitarians.
PS95
Well-Known Member
I don't think that they were Trinitarians in the sense of having a creed. I don't tend to think the creed is 100% right. I also dont walk around referring to myself as a Trinitarian like you do. I am a Christian. I don't claim to have everything down perfect nor do I think I need to!
Paul called it the mystery of godliness. John said the Word was God who became flesh. I just gave you the verses showing that the Spirit of Christ and Spirit of God are one and the same. It's up to you what you do with the verses. I would just pray about it if I were you.
They weren’t trinitarians and they had a creed -> the creed of Judaism. The creed of Judaism is unitary, not trinitary.
What creed do you think isn’t 100% correct?
I’m not a trinitarian. I don’t want to be mistaken for a trinitarian. My affiliation is with the Messiah; himself a Jewish monotheist, not a trinitarian.
I’m a primitive Christian.
You’re being presumptuous.
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PS95
Well-Known Member
I dont want to argue with you. I like you matt. I think you are just a little messed up now being bent on dividing believers who all have their hope in the blood of Jesus. I don't hold your beliefs against you. I hold the constant attempts to divide us against you though.
I’m not trying to divide you against me. It’s in my best interest that you are united against me / Jewish monotheism.
Why is that exactly ? In my way of thinking you are a Christian just as much as I am .
That’s a wise question. I was hoping that @PS95 would ask it. He might have if you hadn’t. I’m pleased that you did and consider it done on his behalf.
1. The Messiah’s Jewish monotheism is deemed heretical and is destroyed by other forms of monotheism.
2. United opposition to Jewish monotheism causes me to reexamine Jewish monotheism.
3. Jewish monotheism can’t be compromised with.
We have many things in common.
What I see as requirements to be a Christian .
That you believe on and accept Jesus as the Son of God as your savior , that He died for your sins and was raised to everlasting life .
And you will now follow Jesus and His examples set forth .
You should be baptized and you should observe the Lords supper .
Foot washing services are optional but don't knock it if you have not attended one .
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