Who’s words are these?
- Thread starter Matthias
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There’s no question that Jesus spoke the words, but that’s not the question.
Who’s words are they? Who’s words was Jesus speaking?
“The person who does not love me does not obey me. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.”
(John 14:24, WEB)
Why does it matter? The dead don’t bodily resurrect themselves to life.
The God and Father of Jesus raised him from the dead.
Who’s words are they? Who’s words was Jesus speaking?
“The person who does not love me does not obey me. The word which you hear isn’t mine, but the Father’s who sent me.”
(John 14:24, WEB)
Why does it matter? The dead don’t bodily resurrect themselves to life.
The God and Father of Jesus raised him from the dead.
“Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from among you, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him.”
(Deuteronomy 18:15, WEB)
”I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you. I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. It shall happen, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.“
(Deuteronomy 18:18, WEB)
John 2:19. Jesus - the prophet like Moses whom Yahweh promised to raise up from among them - spoke the words which Yahweh placed in his mouth to speak.
It was Yahweh, the one God, who bodily raised his Son (Jesus of Nazareth), the Messiah, from the dead.
(Deuteronomy 18:15, WEB)
”I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you. I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. It shall happen, that whoever will not listen to my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.“
(Deuteronomy 18:18, WEB)
John 2:19. Jesus - the prophet like Moses whom Yahweh promised to raise up from among them - spoke the words which Yahweh placed in his mouth to speak.
It was Yahweh, the one God, who bodily raised his Son (Jesus of Nazareth), the Messiah, from the dead.
PS95
Well-Known Member
Jesus being the WORD spoke the words of God.
Now you've lowered the Word of God/Son of God to just a prophet?
God raised Jesus from the dead.
Why do you live to divide the Father Son and Holy Spirit? It's all GOD.
There are much better things to do with your life. Does the Spirit of God/ Christ live in you ,Matt? Do you divide them too?
2 Cor 3: 12Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 14But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Romans 8: 9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
"And if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to myself."
Are you thinking that it was the Father who was crucified?
"I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
Jesus did in fact raise Himself, just as He said He would. Each of the Trinity receives credit for raising Jesus to life. God is One.
Much love!
Absolutely not.
Jesus didn’t in fact raise himself. God, his God, raised him.
I don’t find trinitarian explanations for the life of a Jewish monotheist persuasive.
Then your argument is inconsistent, and means nothing. Other than to show your bias, as you cherry pick Scripture to bolster your assertion. Jesus said He would raise Himself from the dead. Just as Jesus said He would be crucified. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. This is an unfounded assertion to detract from Jesus Christ.
Much love!
My argument is consistent with Jewish monotheism, and that means everything to me. Jesus is a Jewish monotheist, not a trinitarian.
No he didn’t. His God said he would raise Jesus from the dead.
No. This is Jewish monotheism.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
They are both God.
One is God Manifested in the Fleshs as "The Son", who said this..
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KJ21
No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from My Father.”
ASV
No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father.
AMP
No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down voluntarily. I am authorized and have power to lay it down and to give it up, and I am authorized and have power to take it back. This command I have received from My Father.”
AMPC
No one takes it away from Me. On the contrary, I lay it down voluntarily. [I put it from Myself.] I am authorized and have power to lay it down (to resign it) and I am authorized and have power to take it back again. These are the instructions (orders) which I have received [as My charge] from My Father.
BRG
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Maybe you approach this entire issue the way you've approached this thread.
You do realize, don't you, that more revelation of God has been given us after the Old Testement? If you are determined to maintain your views according to how you perceive first century Jews understood God, aren't you holding on to ignorance? And in doing so, denying the clear meanings of a number of passages in the New Testament?
Much love!
I’ve used the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology many times to document for my readers who the one God is according to scripture.
I will address the verse from the perspective of Jewish monotheism in this thread.
Your argument cherry picks Scripture and changes the meaning without cause. It's been easily shown false. It's right there in the posts above.
I think it's just because you don't like what Jesus said, since it doesn't fit your view. But that doesn't change the meaning of Scripture.
It's your choice what you will receive and what you will reject.
Much love!
No it doesn’t. My argument is the perspective of Jewish monotheism and takes into account all scripture in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.
It doesn’t change the meaning at all. It presents the meaning in the context of Jewish monotheism, which precedes trinitarianism in church history.
You haven’t shown that anything I’ve written is false.
Then once again you’re mistaken. I love what Jesus said. He’s a Jewish monotheist and what he says perfectly fits my view (Jewish monotheism).
Jewish monotheism is the best way to understand the meaning of scripture.
No.
“Jesus wasn’t, and isn’t Yahweh.” - Ben Witherington
A trinitarian concession to the constraints of history.
You've applied a "rule" to one verse to "prove your point", but that rule is not valid, and does not apply. I've shown just one passage, which is enough, but the fact is, the Gospels are replete with examples. Do you want to see more?
Much love!
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