Who can speak to the text?

[michaelvpardo]

No dancing here Michael, your miss use of Job 14 has caught you out! The reason I am pressing you is your approach to Job 14 is the same as with Isaiah 14 & Rev 12. Your failure to acknowledge this provides me little motivation to discuss Lucifer. You get that right?

Lets say you said "okay, I got Job 14 wrong, but what about Isaiah 14?" Well that opens the door for further discussion but as you have closed the door what point is there in continuing? How many doors are you willing to close? Let's say I show you the true interpretation of Isaiah 14 and you close that door also? What then?

In other words you're Luciferian, not Christian and a total fraud.

 

[face2face]

In other words you're Luciferian, not Christian and a total fraud.

You are taking this hard Michael. Acknowledge you got Job 14 wrong and lets move forward. I've been called many things but never a Luciferian...that's funny.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You are taking this hard Michael. Acknowledge you got Job 14 wrong and lets move forward. I've been called many things but never a Luciferian...that's funny.

Why would I acknowledge a lie and a misinterpretation of scripture?
Who do you believe Lucifer is? It's a simple question with a simple answer, yet you obfuscate and expect me to approve a poor interpretation of the word. That's never going to happen.

Job lived in Uz, in the land of Moab, where the descendants of Lot dwelt. Somehow I think he knew the difference between angels and men. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because there weren't even 10 righteous men in the city and you think Job was contrasting men with men in Heaven on Earth?

 

[face2face]

Why would I acknowledge a lie and a misinterpretation of scripture?

So you still believe Job 15:14-16 is teaching God cannot put his trust in His angels?
If so, you haven't a clue!
Hebrews 1:14 is super clear - your head is full of heresy's.

 

[michaelvpardo]

So you still believe Job 15:14-16 is teaching God cannot put his trust in His angels?
If so, you haven't a clue!
Hebrews 1:14 is super clear - your head is full of heresy's.

If you think that there are no fallen angels and disagree with the book of the Revelation your head is full of air.
How would Job, a believer in El, not an Israelite or under the Law and without knowledge of the scriptures even know what a saint is?

 

[face2face]

If you think that there are no fallen angels and disagree with the book of the Revelation your head is full of air.
How would Job, a believer in El, not an Israelite or under the Law and without knowledge of the scriptures even know what a saint is?

You go from bad to worse.
“I know that my redeemer lives.” — Job 19:25
Job was a saint!
Your ignorance from your very first post to now astounds me.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You go from bad to worse.
“I know that my redeemer lives.” — Job 19:25
Job was a saint!
Your ignorance from your very first post to now astounds me.

But job was not righteous under the law, because he transgressed it willfully or without knowledge of it, as apparently you lack as well. Can you tell me how Job transgressed the Law of Moses? I can give you direct passages, but demonstrate your great scholarship first.

 

[face2face]

But job was not righteous under the law, because he transgressed it willfully or without knowledge of it, as apparently you lack as well. Can you tell me how Job transgressed the Law of Moses? I can give you direct passages, but demonstrate your great scholarship first.

Agree he did but what does that have to do with:
1. You miss using Job 15:14-16
2. You suggesting Job knew nothing about becoming a saint by faith as per Job 19:25
3. Being unable to admit to 1 & 2 and wanting to change the subject to Job's sins?
Surely by now you would have a measure of empathy for me "persisting" with your poor approach to scripture.

Job 15 is about the failings of men end of story - God's Angels only ever do His Will.

This is milk Michael...can't believe I'm having to state these basic truths.

“Your will be done on earth as in heaven.” (You don't believe this do you Michael?) That God's Will is always done in Heaven and one day that Will is to be done on Earth perfectly?

God’s divine and blessed angels do the will of God, as David said in the psalm, “Bless the Lord, all his angels, mighty in strength, that do his pleasure.”

The problem with your understanding is the false doctrines you have digested over the course of your life which need to be removed, if not purged.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Agree he did but what does that have to do with:
1. You miss using Job 15:14-16
2. You suggesting Job knew nothing about becoming a saint by faith as per Job 19:25
3. Being unable to admit to 1 & 2 and wanting to change the subject to Job's sins?
Surely by now you would have a measure of empathy for me "persisting" with your poor approach to scripture.

Job 15 is about the failings of men end of story - God's Angels only ever do His Will.

This is milk Michael...can't believe I'm having to state these basic truths.

“Your will be done on earth as in heaven.” (You don't believe this do you Michael?) That God's Will is always done in Heaven and one day that Will is to be done on Earth perfectly?

God’s divine and blessed angels do the will of God, as David said in the psalm, “Bless the Lord, all his angels, mighty in strength, that do his pleasure.”

The problem with your understanding is the false doctrines you have digested over the course of your life which need to be removed, if not purged.

No I've changed my mind. Job obviously possessed a time machine, went into the future, secured a Bible written in the ancient language of Moab, hopped back in his DeLorean and read the scriptures while he was driving so that he would have knowledge of what a saint is, and then spoke about comparing men to men in heaven. It all makes sense now.
Thank you for your profound wisdom and understanding.

I hope that you didn't pay anyone to teach you. If so, demand a refund. If you taught yourself that would explain a lot.

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter1:19-21

 

[face2face]

No I've changed my mind. Job obviously possessed a time machine, went into the future, secured a Bible written in the ancient language of Moab, hopped back in his DeLorean and read the scriptures while he was driving so that he would have knowledge of what a saint is, and then spoke about comparing men to men in heaven. It all makes sense now.
Thank you for your profound wisdom and understanding.

I hope that you didn't pay anyone to teach you. If so, demand a refund. If you taught yourself that would explain a lot.

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter1:19-21

Now you quote 2 Peter 1:19-21 (you are all over the place)

So what you are mockingly saying is Job didn't have the hope of resurrection and immortality? (even though he knew his redeemer lived - that be God by the way!)

James 5:10 As an example of suffering and patience, brothers and sisters, take the prophets who spoke in the Lord’s name. 5:11 Think of how we regard as blessed those who have endured. You have heard of Job’s endurance and you have seen the Lord’s purpose, that the Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

Do you honestly believe Job didn't see the Lord's purpose? I think you will find in the end he saw it very clearly.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Now you quote 2 Peter 1:19-21 (you are all over the place)

So what you are mockingly saying is Job didn't have the hope of resurrection and immortality? (even though he knew his redeemer lived - that be God by the way!)

James 5:10 As an example of suffering and patience, brothers and sisters, take the prophets who spoke in the Lord’s name. 5:11 Think of how we regard as blessed those who have endured. You have heard of Job’s endurance and you have seen the Lord’s purpose, that the Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

Do you honestly believe Job didn't see the Lord's purpose? I think you will find in the end he saw it very clearly.

How did Job know that he was a saint? How did he even know that such a thing exists? We know what saints are because we have scripture and the Holy Spirit to teach us what a saint is. What you propose as sound doctrine isn't supported by scripture at all. It's fantasy. God gave you a brain and a book. If you confessed Jesus is Lord in faith and prayed for His Spirit, then you possess the key that unlocks scripture. Use them, because your reason fails you.

 

[face2face]

How did Job know that he was a saint? How did he even know that such a thing exists? We know what saints are because we have scripture and the Holy Spirit to teach us what a saint is. What you propose as sound doctrine isn't supported by scripture at all. It's fantasy. God gave you a brain and a book. If you confessed Jesus is Lord in faith and prayed for His Spirit, then you possess the key that unlocks scripture. Use them, because your reason fails you.

Where is your Scripture? Noticeably absent!

Maybe you believe a saint to be something other than how the Scripture defines it?

Colossians 1:2 to the saints, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ,

Was Job in Christ or not?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Where is your Scripture? Noticeably absent!

Maybe you believe a saint to be something other than how the Scripture defines it?

Colossians 1:2 to the saints, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ,

Was Job in Christ or not?

What does that have to do with what he knew or didn't know? He lived in Uz and apparently before the Law was written by Moses. Our knowledge of God and the saints come from scripture, not thin air. Lot had knowledge of El Elohe, so it's likely that Job did as well, but he had no scripture, he had no Bible, he had no knowledge except some form of oral traditions. All your statements are suppositions and the verse ties "holy ones" to the purity of heaven, which is not on Earth. You have a good imagination, but you deny what other scripture says and latch onto one verse that you misinterpret without answering the other verses. This is not sound exegesis, because scripture must be compared to scripture, not privately interpreted in isolation from the rest of the book. The Old Testament is partial Revelation, not full Revelation and must be interpreted in the light of the Spirit given in the new and full Revelation of Christ. Your method is backward and cultic.

 

[face2face]

What does that have to do with what he knew or didn't know? He lived in Uz and apparently before the Law was written by Moses. Our knowledge of God and the saints come from scripture, not thin air. Lot had knowledge of El Elohe, so it's likely that Job did as well, but he had no scripture, he had no Bible, he had no knowledge except some form of oral traditions. All your statements are suppositions and the verse ties "holy ones" to the purity of heaven, which is not on Earth. You have a good imagination, but you deny what other scripture says and latch onto one verse that you misinterpret without answering the other verses. This is not sound exegesis, because scripture must be compared to scripture, not privately interpreted in isolation from the rest of the book. The Old Testament is partial Revelation, not full Revelation and must be interpreted in the light of the Spirit given in the new and full Revelation of Christ. Your method is backward and cultic.

So this is what I have gleaned from our interaction thus far.

1. You believe God can't trust His Angels (at all!)
2. You believe Heaven can be defiled by sin (not sure where you get this from)
3. You believe Job didn't know his Redeemer (yet to confirm this is so, or not)
4. You believe Job didn't understand His life would be preserved and faith rewarded with eternal life at some future time.
5. You don't believe Job is in Christ, or that he is a son of God. (I'm curious on what basis can Job be saved if you believe it is not by the Lord Jesus Christ?)

Feel free to clarify.