Who can speak to the text?

[face2face]

No.

There are spiritual evil rulers in the heavens, per Ephesians 6 for one, we fight not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan is the prince of the power of the air, as an example.

Rulers in the heavens are spirit entities.

Put up the Ephesians 6 quote and lets discuss.

 

[marks]

Would you agree the context is in Luke 10:17 which indicates that the casting out of demons and not the fall of a rebel angel is the subject of reference?

Both are topics in the passage. Isn't that plain? Jesus spoke of both.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

I'm saying that's the Biblical usage.

There left their realm, left their bodies, for what?Much love!

Where does it say they left their realm or bodies?

Here is what it states

1:6 •You also know that the angels who did not keep within their proper domain but abandoned their own place of residence

 

[marks]

That's the issue...I am not sure you have. You know as well as I do the entire chapter is focused on judgement to take place by the rulers of the earth and its inhabitants...what made you think it has anything to do with your fallen angel theology?

Also note...God uses the Heavens to mean the Political rulers of the earth. Let me know if you want proof although you just posted it.

Let's look at it this way . . . regardless of what or how much I've read, the Bible either says something, or it doesn't. I'm posting what I believe it says, you are doing the same. No need to question each others accomplishment or qualification. We're just two people talking about the Bible.

Either you see what I see or you don't and visa-versa. Either it's there, or it's not.

"You know as well as I do"? Really? I'm reading the text, and I'm telling you what I'm reading. You seem to me to be overlooking part, but I don't want to make a deal out of it, I just point to the passages.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Both are topics in the passage. Isn't that plain? Jesus spoke of both.

Much love!

So Marks,

Tell me where is the Adversary in Luke 10:18.

Take care when answering.

 

[marks]

No.

There are spiritual evil rulers in the heavens, per Ephesians 6 for one, we fight not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan is the prince of the power of the air, as an example.

Rulers in the heavens are spirit entities.

And just because there are human and spirit messengers, does not mean you can claim all messengers are humans.

That is not a reasonable hermeneutic.

Right!! Yes, Ephesians 6 is pretty plain about evil princes, archons. The prince of Persia who captured Gabriel, until Michael, also a prince, came to help.

The more you look, the more you see!

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Let's look at it this way . . . regardless of what or how much I've read, the Bible either says something, or it doesn't. I'm posting what I believe it says, you are doing the same. No need to question each others accomplishment or qualification. We're just two people talking about the Bible.

Either you see what I see or you don't and visa-versa. Either it's there, or it's not.

"You know as well as I do"? Really? I'm reading the text, and I'm telling you what I'm reading. You seem to me to be overlooking part, but I don't want to make a deal out of it, I just point to the passages.

Much love!

This is the issue isn't it...people assume they think the know something or think a verse is supporting their own notions when in fact its often the case they don't know what the verse is conveying. Isaiah 24 reference is a case in point.

 

[Curtis]

Put up the Ephesians 6 quote and lets discuss.

I can tell you right now, that in Ephesians 6, Paul negates any claims that he’s talking about human beings, by stating WE FIGHT NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, but against spirit beings.

If you insist otherwise, that’s an unreasonable exegesis.

 

[face2face]

Right!! Yes, Ephesians 6 is pretty plain about evil princes, archons. The prince of Persia who captured Gabriel, until Michael, also a prince, came to help.

The more you look, the more you see!

Much love!

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.

World rulers and spiritual forces in the religious and political heavens.

You dont think that's talking about God's dwelling place crazy nonsense!

 

[face2face]

I can tell you right now, that in Ephesians 6, Paul negates any claims that he’s talking about human beings, by stating WE FIGHT NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, but against spirit beings.

If you insist otherwise, that’s an unreasonable exegesis.

LOL

 

[marks]

I can tell you right now, that in Ephesians 6, Paul negates any claims that he’s talking about human beings, by stating WE FIGHT NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, but against spirit beings.

If you insist otherwise, that’s an unreasonable exegesis.

Yes, the passage is very specific. I find this topic itself to be something pretty clearly delineated throughout the Bible.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.

World rulers and spiritual forces in the religious and political heavens.

You dont think that's talking about God's dwelling place crazy nonsense!

God is eternal, and is not bound by His Own creation.

Isaiah 66:1-2 KJV
1) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2) For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. In the heaven He created the angels, on the earth He created Man. Each live in the realm God created, and placed them in.

I'm surprised you would make that argument.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

God is eternal, and is not bound by His Own creation.

Isaiah 66:1-2 KJV
1) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2) For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. In the heaven He created the angels, on the earth He created Man. Each live in the realm God created, and placed them in.

I'm surprised you would make that argument.

Much love!

Good quote and true!
What is your point?
You don't know heavens can be politically speaking of earthly rulers?

 

[marks]

What is your point?

What I said.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

What I said.

Much love!

You don't know heavens can be politically speaking of earthly rulers?

 

[face2face]

@marks #145

Where is the adversary?

 

[face2face]

@Curtis @marks

So from our interactions I have determined you believe there is chaos in God's Heavenly Realm. That God's Will is somehow not done in Heaven or on Earth in the ultimate sense.

When you read Matthew 6:10

"may your (God's) kingdom come, may your (God's) will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

You must then believe it's either God's will for angels to sin, or that your god is not all powerful and able to govern his heavenly abode and subjects. Or, maybe you think the entirety of God's Will will never be fully done on earth as it is clearly not in Heaven and you have settled for a limited god who is unreliable and a divine nature, able to sin.

Whatever is the case, its compromised whichever way you look at it.

The motivation behind Jesus' prayer is made mute with your claims of heavenly chaos, isn't it?

F2F.

 

[face2face]

Your OP title was about speaking to the text, you seem allergic to that.

There are two places in the Bible that word appears. Numbers is not one of them.

Much love!

So you are saying a Greek word must appear in the Hebrew text before the context can be established

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis @marks

So from our interactions I have determined you believe there is chaos in God's Heavenly Realm. That God's Will is somehow not done in Heaven or on Earth in the ultimate sense.

When you read Matthew 6:10

"may your (God's) kingdom come, may your (God's) will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

You must then believe it's either God's will for angels to sin, or that your god is not all powerful and able to govern his heavenly abode and subjects. Or, maybe you think the entirety of God's Will will never be fully done on earth as it is clearly not in Heaven and you have settled for a limited god who is unreliable and a divine nature, able to sin.

Whatever is the case, its compromised whichever way you look at it.

The motivation behind Jesus' prayer is made mute with your claims of heavenly chaos, isn't it?

F2F.

Gods kingdom comes and His will is done on earth when Jesus returns - in the meantime Satan is god of this world, since Adam turned it over to him, as scripture clearly says, which is the reason God hasn’t yet ended evil in the world, and Satan’s minions include principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[face2face]

Gods kingdom comes and His will is done on earth when Jesus returns - in the meantime Satan is god of this world, since Adam turned it over to him, as scripture clearly says, which is the reason God hasn’t yet ended evil in the world, and Satan’s minions include principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places.

Noted. You didn't say God's will is done in Heaven...that would be a mouthful.