Who Created or Made a Sin Nature?

[Angelina]

People keep trying to tell how a sin nature was put into man, with a process for which man is now born with it.

But no one has ever said who does so. Until we have a creator and maker of something new, then there is no such thing that actually exists.

Except in the imagination of people.

The potential to sin has always existed because God has always existed. God has given mankind a free will however, mankind desires to control their own life. If they fail in this life, they will blame God. If they succeed, they will credit to the works of their own hands.

 

[face2face]

True. The body of Jesus was just as naturally mortal as the first Adam, and the rest of us.

The only one that is biased to sin is a sinner, who learned to sin in time on earth, and turned the spiritual nature given their souls by Christ, into death apart from Christ.

Sins of the flesh is not the flesh's sins, but is the soul's sins by sinning with their flesh.

And some soul's sin against their own flesh by fornication.

Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

A soul is just a living breathing creature..nothing more or less.

 

[robert derrick]

The potential to sin has always existed because God has always existed. God has given mankind a free will however, mankind desires to control their own life. If they fail in this life, they will blame God. If they succeed, they will credit to the works of their own hands.

And so, there it is.

God is the creator of angels and men with free will to choose good or evil. He does not create angels and men with a desire to sin only.

In fact, Christ lightens every man coming into the world, with the desire to please Him.

Man must create his own will to sin against Christ, despite the desire to do good given to us by Him at birth.

Being born again is becoming a newborn babe again as from the womb, with the right desire first given to us, nor given again by Christ Himself within us:

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.

Rather than man now being made against God, Christ stacks the deck in man's favor, by first loving us coming into the world. He does so again by coming into the world to forgive and reconcile man to God as at the first.

Neither Christ nor the devil makes man sinful from birth, but like the devil, man chooses to make himself a sinner afterward.

All babes are pure and clean and live in spirit and soul, but mortal in flesh and blood, which is how we and Jesus are made a little lower than the angels.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

 

[robert derrick]

A soul is just a living breathing creature..nothing more or less.

So you say. The natural man is more honest. He just says their is only the body and no soul at all.

Just flesh, blood, and bones and dust, and that's it.

Calling the breath of air for the body, a soul, is calling the air a soul.

Earth is not Gaia, a living breathing soul.

 

[face2face]

So you say. The natural man is more honest. He just says their is only the body and no soul at all.

Just flesh, blood, and bones and dust, and that's it.

Calling the breath of air for the body, a soul, is calling the air a soul.

Earth is not Gaia, a living breathing soul.

A soul eats, dies, sleeps, you get the picture...animals do the same!

 

[robert derrick]

A soul eats, dies, sleeps, you get the picture...animals do the same!

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

The overcoming soul lives by the spiritual things of the word of God, and eating and drinking the spiritual food of Jesus Christ's flesh and blood, which is now the tree of life in the paradise of God.

The eternal soul dies by sinning against God, and so is cut of from the life and fellowship and blood and flesh of God. Except the soul repents and is forgiven by God through Jesus Christ, so the soul lives again while still in mortal flesh.

The souls of the righteous are in the presence of the Lord, while their dead bodies are in the grave. Those corpses, unlike those of the wicked, are said to be asleep only, since they will be resurrected immortal and blessed forever.

Natural mortal flesh eats, sleeps, drinks, sickens, and then dies naturally on earth. Although there are some spiritual books called 'Chicken Soup for the Soul', the soul does not eat chickens. The only bodies not dying will be those of the righteous still alive and remaining on earth at the Lord's return, and there bodies will be made instantly immortal with those resurrected from the grave.

Once again, the natural mind only acknowledges natural things on earth, and so they see nothing of the spiritual things of Scripture. It was the same with the natural minded Jews of old:

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

And so were offended at Him and turned back from following Him:

From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

And so, do you eat Jesus Christ's flesh and drink His blood today?

If not, Would you like to know how?

 

[robert derrick]

More proof that the soul is not the body, neither does the soul go to the grave with the body:

Since the soul dies by sinning, while the body still lives on earth, then the soul and the body are not bound to one another with life or death.

Since the soul can be born again to live again through Jesus Christ, then the soul can die and live again, all the while the body remains alive on earth.

To say that the soul lives only while the body lives, and the soul can only die with the body, is to deny the salvation of Jesus Christ by being born again of His Spirit.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The body cannot be born again from the dead while on earth, but only the soul can be saved from the spiritual death of sins and trespasses.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The body of natural flesh and blood, lives and dies only once.

 

[face2face]

The eternal soul dies by sinning against God, and so is cut of from the life and fellowship and blood and flesh of God. Except the soul repents and is forgiven by God through Jesus Christ, so the soul lives again while still in mortal flesh.

Where do you get this from robert?
Anything which is eternal cannot die - ah that's the point of it being eternal! Soul is mortal man and that's it nothing more and when mortal man dies he gets death Romans 6:23. Back to the drawing board!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes, when God pronounced the punishments for Adam and Eve, he said nothing about placing a “sin nature” on them.

The scriptures only says that we were made sinners, not that a sin nature was placed upon us.

All have sinned.

But all do not continue in sin.

and cc: @robert derrick

Read Ezekiel 28 about the King of Tyre. Archangels are called princes, i.e., Prince of Persia and Prince of Greece. These archangels are over nations. And fallen archangels are over pagan nations trying to keep them in the dark. The archangel Michael is the prince over Israel and why you hear of him so often in the Bible. Read Daniel 10:10-20. The King of Tyre is Satan who had been a cherub, a higher ranking angel.

Ezekiel 28 shows that Lucifer was still perfect in the Garden of Eden. In Genesis, God had given dominion over everything to Adam. When Satan through deceiving Eve made Adam commit a willful sin, disobeying the one and only command He gave Adam, dominion shifted to Satan. And that sin Satan committed was his first sin. Over time other angels would come onto Satan's side and become "fallen". That is why in Genesis 6:4 the word "afterward" is written. The afterward makes sense when you see what happened after the flood when afterward Goliath and whole nations became like those who died in the flood. The angels from the time before the flood who fell and produced hybrid children (like Goliath) are chained in a pit according to Jude 1:6. But the rest of the angels were not cast out of heaven yet. In Job 1 you see that the sons of God, the angels are all present before the throne of God, some on his right, but some on his left, and Satan roamed through them. I would think the two sides, right and left, is obvious. The right side where Jesus was eventually was seated are the good angels, and those on the left had fallen. But they were all sill there. It wasn't until in Revelation 12, the woman, Israel bore the Child and then was crucified and rose up that Jesus destroyed the works of the devil in the born again. That is also when in Revelation 12 the war in heaven broke out and by this time over a few thousand years Satan had deceived 1/3 of the angels and they were all cast out of heaven.

Now you wonder "who" put sin in the nature of all born after the Garden of Eden was taken back to heaven. Satan, of course.

When we are born again and sin is taken out of our nature, it becomes like Adam's was in the likeness of God when he was created and still perfect and like God, and the angels, with FREE WILL. But the born again now have something that not even Adam had, and that was the empowering of Jesus' Spirit inside of us. Instead of slaves of sin like Adam's ancestors, we are slaves of righteousness. Romans 6:6-16.

@face2face Adam was created immortal, but when he sinned, his flesh and spirit/soul became mortal. But are separate. When the body dies, it becomes dust, but the mortal spirit and soul of man will either go to the Father if righteous, or to the outer darkness if wicked (not hell). At the second resurrection after the 1000 year Millenium all the wicked spirits in outer darkness will be joined back to their body and be judged. Then together this mortal being will be cast into the lake of fire and be destroyed. This is called the second death. Angels, however are immoral, even the fallen angels. They will suffer forever. When we are born again, even though our body is mortal, our nature: spirit and soul becomes immortal having received eternal life. We also receive an immortal body at the resurrection.

If we fall like in 2 Peter 2:18-22 by listening to false teachers who seduce by twisting God's word, look what happens to them. Why do you think it would be better for their spirit to not be immortal, but mortal? Its obvious.

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

 

[robert derrick]

and cc: @robert derrick

Read Ezekiel 28 about the King of Tyre. Archangels are called princes, i.e., Prince of Persia and Prince of Greece. These archangels are over nations. And fallen archangels are over pagan nations trying to keep them in the dark. The archangel Michael is the prince over Israel and why you hear of him so often in the Bible. Read Daniel 10:10-20. The King of Tyre is Satan who had been a cherub, a higher ranking angel.

Now you wonder "who" put sin in the nature of all born after the Garden of Eden was taken back to heaven. Satan, of course.

No one is disputing that the god of this world is ruling over all those sinning in the world.

But you leap to an unproven conclusion, that the devil puts sin into babes in womb. That would also make the devil a creator and maker in his own right, over his own children coming into the world.

1. That is what he lusted to become, when he fell. No angel nor man, but God and Christ alone create and make all things that are made. Neither does He allow the devil to be a co-maker of sinners at conception.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.

2. Such a sinful entrance into the world also contradicts the fact that Christ is the true Light that lightens every man coming into the world. He does not lighten man with lust to sin, nor will to displease God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

These Scriptures are written specifically to reveal the truth, that the devil does not make and bring his own children into the world

Being born by sin and with a sin nature, is one of the many false traditions of the Jews of old, that the Pharisees believed and used as reason to cast out a good witness of Jesus healing the blind in John 9.

and cc: @robert derrick

Now you wonder "who" put sin in the nature of all born after the Garden of Eden was taken back to heaven. Satan, of course.

The only thing that the devil and the spirit of this world 'puts' in man, is temptation to sin in his mind. Angels are spiritual beings without mortal bodies, and so they speak directly to the mind, even as the Spirit of the Lord does to the heart.

The devil doesn't even put lust and desire for sin into man, but only temptation of the mind. Man must create and have his own lust, in order to be enticed by temptation of the devil. But if we do not have lust, then we have divine power to resist the devil, till he flees from us.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The scripture here as in John 1, is rebuking the lie that man is tempted by God to sin, because God either makes men sinners in the womb, or allows the devil to be a maker and creator of man's nature at birth. If so, then the accusation would be true against Christ tempting man to sin.

Lucifer created lust in his own heart to sin against God, and so did Adam and Eve, though with help from the devil by temptation and lying.

Man makes himself a sinner by sinning for himself against Christ. Man becomes a natural sinner, by often sinning, not by natural birth of the mortal body: man is made by Christ with power to become a natural sinner, but not because he is a natural born sinner made by Christ.

If man is a natural born sinner, then so was Jesus a born sinner by nature, from the natural seed of David and of Abraham and of Noah and of Adam.

and cc: @robert derrick


When we are born again and sin is taken out of our nature, it becomes like Adam's was in the likeness of God when he was created and still perfect and like God, and the angels, with FREE WILL. But the born again now have something that not even Adam had, and that was the empowering of Jesus' Spirit inside of us. Instead of slaves of sin like Adam's ancestors, we are slaves of righteousness. Romans 6:6-16.

Adam obviously wasn't perfect like God, else He would not even been tempted like God, must less sinned against God.

For God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

No man in flesh and blood is perfect like God, nor can flesh and blood ever inherit the kingdom of God, by being immortal.

Jesus was a man in the same flesh as Adam, and was not perfect like He was in glory, because He was tempted like all men.

Lucifer began like all angels, as well as Adam began like all newborn babes, including Jesus, with a perfectly good soul, heart, and mind created by Christ, that could be corrupted by choosing to lust for sin, rather than reject it, as Jesus did from His youth up:

And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

and cc: @robert derrick

@face2face Adam was created immortal, but when he sinned, his flesh and spirit/soul became mortal. But are separate.

The only death by sinning is that of the soul, which every soul that sins, shall surely die in that day, even as God warned Adam.

The death sentence for sinning, was for that day of sinning alone. Adam's body did not die later, for sinning.

No Scripture says that the body sins, nor that the body surely dies by sinning. Man can kill the body, but neither man nor the devil makes the flesh mortal.

The body formed from the dust was mortal, not immortal, as is all nature. It's not a sin to be mortal in flesh, because that is the way Christ made and makes all flesh:

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Scripture here says that all flesh from the dust, shall return as it was when made into flesh by Christ: Mortal.

 

[robert derrick]

and cc: @robert derrick

Read Ezekiel 28 about the King of Tyre. Archangels are called princes, i.e., Prince of Persia and Prince of Greece. These archangels are over nations. And fallen archangels are over pagan nations trying to keep them in the dark. The archangel Michael is the prince over Israel and why you hear of him so often in the Bible. Read Daniel 10:10-20. The King of Tyre is Satan who had been a cherub, a higher ranking angel.

Ezekiel 28 shows that Lucifer was still perfect in the Garden of Eden. In Genesis, God had given dominion over everything to Adam. When Satan through deceiving Eve made Adam commit a willful sin, disobeying the one and only command He gave Adam, dominion shifted to Satan. And that sin Satan committed was his first sin. Over time other angels would come onto Satan's side and become "fallen". That is why in Genesis 6:4 the word "afterward" is written. The afterward makes sense when you see what happened after the flood when afterward Goliath and whole nations became like those who died in the flood. The angels from the time before the flood who fell and produced hybrid children (like Goliath) are chained in a pit according to Jude 1:6. But the rest of the angels were not cast out of heaven yet. In Job 1 you see that the sons of God, the angels are all present before the throne of God, some on his right, but some on his left, and Satan roamed through them. I would think the two sides, right and left, is obvious. The right side where Jesus was eventually was seated are the good angels, and those on the left had fallen. But they were all sill there. It wasn't until in Revelation 12, the woman, Israel bore the Child and then was crucified and rose up that Jesus destroyed the works of the devil in the born again. That is also when in Revelation 12 the war in heaven broke out and by this time over a few thousand years Satan had deceived 1/3 of the angels and they were all cast out of heaven.

Now you wonder "who" put sin in the nature of all born after the Garden of Eden was taken back to heaven. Satan, of course.

When we are born again and sin is taken out of our nature, it becomes like Adam's was in the likeness of God when he was created and still perfect and like God, and the angels, with FREE WILL. But the born again now have something that not even Adam had, and that was the empowering of Jesus' Spirit inside of us. Instead of slaves of sin like Adam's ancestors, we are slaves of righteousness. Romans 6:6-16.

@face2face Adam was created immortal, but when he sinned, his flesh and spirit/soul became mortal. But are separate. When the body dies, it becomes dust, but the mortal spirit and soul of man will either go to the Father if righteous, or to the outer darkness if wicked (not hell). At the second resurrection after the 1000 year Millenium all the wicked spirits in outer darkness will be joined back to their body and be judged. Then together this mortal being will be cast into the lake of fire and be destroyed. This is called the second death. Angels, however are immoral, even the fallen angels. They will suffer forever. When we are born again, even though our body is mortal, our nature: spirit and soul becomes immortal having received eternal life. We also receive an immortal body at the resurrection.

If we fall like in 2 Peter 2:18-22 by listening to false teachers who seduce by twisting God's word, look what happens to them. Why do you think it would be better for their spirit to not be immortal, but mortal? Its obvious.

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

There are 9 individual proofs offered by Scriptural reasoning, that it is impossible for any creature made by Christ, especially man, with a sin nature 'put' in it:

1. Christ is the only creator and maker of anything spiritual or natural, both in heaven and on earth.
2. Christ lightens every man coming into the world at birth, with His true Light, unto righteousness, not unto sin.
4. All creatures were and still are created for His good pleasure, which does not include lust and nature to sin against Him. (Rev 4:11)
3. Being born again is as a new born babe from the womb, which means spiritually alive and good and clear conscience. If newborn babes were sinful, then Scripture would not call salvation being born again as newborn baby sinners.
4. If the natural seed and flesh of man is now sinful, then so was the flesh and blood body of Jesus, which was prepared for Him by the Holy Spirit, by the seed of men called David and Abraham, which was in the flesh of Mary's mortal womb. (Rom 1:3)(2 Tim 2:8)(Heb 2:16)
5. The devil is only the maker and father of lies: he is not a created being with enough power to be creator and maker in his own right.
6. All flesh is grass, which makes it mortal, not moral in nature. (Is 40:6)
7. Only until man makes his lust for sin in his own heart, does man sin from the heart. And only by sinning does the man spiritually die.
8. It is the soul that sins, and only the soul that dies by sinning. No Scripture says the body sins, nor dies by sin, nor is mortal by sin.
9. And finally, the main Scripture used for saying sin has passed upon all men by nature from Adam, does not at all say that:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

Death has passed upon all souls, because all souls, save one, have sinned. By sinning, sin enters into the world of each and every man that sins in the world.

So far, no one still believing in that old tradition of the Jews, has yet to even address one of them.

I wonder if you will. In any case, until they are disproven by better reasoning, then there is no more argument for me to engage in. I took the time with you, because you came from a different angle, and also because you have proven yourself to be sincere in your teachings, rather than just putting out more mantra ad nauseum.

 

[robert derrick]

and cc: @robert derrick

When the body dies, it becomes dust, but the mortal spirit and soul of man will either go to the Father if righteous, or to the outer darkness if wicked (not hell). At the second resurrection after the 1000 year Millenium all the wicked spirits in outer darkness will be joined back to their body and be judged. Then together this mortal being will be cast into the lake of fire and be destroyed. This is called the second death. Angels, however are immoral, even the fallen angels. They will suffer forever. When we are born again, even though our body is mortal, our nature: spirit and soul becomes immortal having received eternal life. We also receive an immortal body at the resurrection.

You are calling those living again during the second resurrection, as being mortal, because of having their mortal bodies once again.

This is an new argument for 'oblivion' in the lake of fire, that is interesting.

The first problem of course is that those tormented forever, specifically include those dwellers of the earth, that received the mark of the beast.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

And the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire alive in their mortal bodies.

Therefore, the conclusion must be that those bodies now perish in the lake of fire, as opposed to decay in a grave, but the soul remain forever in outer darkness away from the face of God:

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

I personally believe that the old heaven and old scorched earth, are the lake of fire, that has fled from the face of the Lord forever. And those in the new heaven and earth will forget all about them.

The world they lovede so much unto the end, they get to themselves forever without God nor the Lamb. They want to be gods as stars in their own right, and they get it in their own torment.

 

[robert derrick]

Anything which is eternal cannot die -

Applying natural man's reasonings to Scripture, is where all false teaching comes from.

Only those with clear eyes will read Scripture, to learn the simple truth of what is written.

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[face2face]

Applying natural man's reasonings to Scripture, is where all false teaching comes from.

Only those with clear eyes will read Scripture, to learn the simple truth of what is written.

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

More of the same spiritualism! Boy you could apply that reasoning to any and all apostatized teaching. It's why they invented dualism because they required a god who can die - so they made one up...now you have taken this concept and run with it all the way to the grave.
And no matter what one does the infection is terminal.

 

[face2face]

So you say. The natural man is more honest. He just says their is only the body and no soul at all.

The life (soul) has a body.

I just wanted to show you an example of how you should use the phase as it is shown in the Bible.

Just flesh, blood, and bones and dust, and that's it.

Yep

Calling the breath of air for the body, a soul, is calling the air a soul.
Earth is not Gaia, a living breathing soul.

The Hebrew nephesh, despite its traditional translation “soul,” never refers to that which continues to exist after death, though the nephesh departs (life) when one dies (Genesis 35:18).

In this connection, H. W. Wolff observes, “man does not have [nephesh], he is [nephesh], he lives as [nephesh].”

God also is characterized by nephesh (e.g., Isaiah 1:14). Though it was granted to Adam when God breathed into him (Genesis 2:7), it is not a “piece” of the divine, but only finds its source there. As the part of the body that receives food and breathes, the nephesh is connected to the throat. In the metaphysical realm, the nephesh is that which experiences life and represents living (notice that the life, nephesh, is in the blood, Lev. 17:11, and the blood is the nephesh, Deut. 12:23). In the plural it can refer to persons, and is often related to the “self.” John H Walton

Thank you John, couldn't agree more! along with all the ancient near eastern peoples - this is the commonly held belief for thousands of the years and why do you have this foreign idea?

Hmmmm lets dwell on that shall we!

 

[robert derrick]

More of the same spiritualism! Boy you could apply that reasoning to any and all apostatized teaching. It's why they invented dualism because they required a god who can die - so they made one up...now you have taken this concept and run with it all the way to the grave.
And no matter what one does the infection is terminal.

Thew only ones believing in a Christian god, are the christ creators.

 

[robert derrick]

The life (soul) has a body.

I just wanted to show you an example of how you should use the phase as it is shown in the Bible.



Yep



The Hebrew nephesh, despite its traditional translation “soul,” never refers to that which continues to exist after death, though the nephesh departs (life) when one dies (Genesis 35:18).

In this connection, H. W. Wolff observes, “man does not have [nephesh], he is [nephesh], he lives as [nephesh].”

God also is characterized by nephesh (e.g., Isaiah 1:14). Though it was granted to Adam when God breathed into him (Genesis 2:7), it is not a “piece” of the divine, but only finds its source there. As the part of the body that receives food and breathes, the nephesh is connected to the throat. In the metaphysical realm, the nephesh is that which experiences life and represents living (notice that the life, nephesh, is in the blood, Lev. 17:11, and the blood is the nephesh, Deut. 12:23). In the plural it can refer to persons, and is often related to the “self.” John H Walton

Thank you John, couldn't agree more! along with all the ancient near eastern peoples - this is the commonly held belief for thousands of the years and why do you have this foreign idea?

Hmmmm lets dwell on that shall we!

The air that gives life to all flesh, is not the soul.

There is no soul of the earth, nor earth goddess called Gaia.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@robert derrick

It seems you believe that man is a soul, which includes the spirit and body. But we are a triune being made in the image of God. That is why we are called a spirit, soul, and body. That is a mind, heart/conscience and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

@robert derrick

It seems you believe that man is a soul, which includes the spirit and body. But we are a triune being made in the image of God. That is why we are called a spirit, soul, and body. That is a mind, heart/conscience and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

True, but neither the soul nor the spirit is the body, but only dwells in the earthen vessel, which is mortally alive from dust, and dead when the spirit departs.

The body is preserved blameless by the soul not sinning with it, when we cleanse our spirit and flesh of filthy living.

God preserves our soul by faith in Him, and we preserve our body from the physical effects of sin, by doing righteousness.

The body itself is neither blameless nor to be blamed, for how we live in it.

Only the soul is judged for sinning with the body, not the body for being sinned with by us.

The blameless soul and spirit go to the Lord in His presence, while the body goes to the grave, whether it was lived in blamelessly or not.

Once again, there are several proofs unanswered about the impossibility of the soul or the body, being made and born into the world with sin in it, and lusting to do evil.

Here is a couple:

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The body returns to the earth as it was, when made of dust in the beginning: Naturally Mortal

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field.

All flesh is grass: Natural, mortal, and nothing moral about it, with nothing righteous nor sinful in it.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It is the spiritual soul that does good or evil with the body. The flesh has nothing to say about it, except in the natural things of breathing, eating, drinking, sleeping, rest, etc...

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

There is no help from the flesh to do either good or evil, because it is nothing but skin and bone, whose nature is simply mortal and dependent upon the natural things of this life.

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)

Conclusion: all good and evil, righteousness and sin, are spiritual in nature, while the body is only mortal in nature. Only spiritual beings created by God with power to war for good or evil, can do good or evil, whether in bodies of angels or men.

It is in the hearts of angels and of men, where lust is created, and sin begins. (Isaiah 14)(James 1)

If the source for sin was in the tissues of the flesh, then we would rightly need to make war with the flesh, which would be our enemy from the womb to the grave.

That is the foolish fighting of natural man, who wants to think the flesh is the problem, and not themselves.

I am not my body, and my body is not me. I must rule over my body, and naturally care for it. The flesh rules nothing of it's own will.

I know they say that dogs are people too, and that's cute, but bodies are not people too, neither the bodies of men nor of dogs.

Scripture teaches, that If I have a problem in the flesh, it's not with the flesh, but with my heart and mind abusing the flesh, and sinning against Christ and even my own flesh.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

True, but neither the soul nor the spirit is the body, but only dwells in the earthen vessel, which is mortally alive from dust, and dead when the spirit departs.

The body is preserved blameless by the soul not sinning with it, when we cleanse our spirit and flesh of filthy living.

God preserves our soul by faith in Him, and we preserve our body from the physical effects of sin, by doing righteousness.

The body itself is neither blameless nor to be blamed, for how we live in it.

Only the soul is judged for sinning with the body, not the body for being sinned with by us.

The blameless soul and spirit go to the Lord in His presence, while the body goes to the grave, whether it was lived in blamelessly or not.

Once again, there are several proofs unanswered about the impossibility of the soul or the body, being made and born into the world with sin in it, and lusting to do evil.

Here is a couple:

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The body returns to the earth as it was, when made of dust in the beginning: Naturally Mortal

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field.

All flesh is grass: Natural, mortal, and nothing moral about it, with nothing righteous nor sinful in it.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It is the spiritual soul that does good or evil with the body. The flesh has nothing to say about it, except in the natural things of breathing, eating, drinking, sleeping, rest, etc...

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

There is no help from the flesh to do either good or evil, because it is nothing but skin and bone, whose nature is simply mortal and dependent upon the natural things of this life.

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

Conclusion: all good and evil, righteousness and sin, are spiritual in nature, while the body is only mortal in nature. Only spiritual beings created by God with power to war for good or evil, can do good or evil, whether in bodies of angels or men.

It is in the hearts of angels and of men, where lust is created, and sin begins. (Isaiah 14)(James 1)

If the source for sin was in the tissues of the flesh, then we would rightly need to make war with the flesh, which would be our enemy from the womb to the grave.

That is the foolish fighting of natural man, who wants to think the flesh is the problem, and not themselves.

I am not my body, and my body is not me. I must rule over my body, and naturally care for it. The flesh rules nothing of it's own will.

I know they say that dogs are people too, and that's cute, but bodies are not people too, neither the bodies of men nor of dogs.

Scripture teaches, that If I have a problem in the flesh, it's not with the flesh, but with my heart and mind abusing the flesh, and sinning against Christ and even my own flesh.

Man was created perfect, with a clean human nature with free will. The nature is the spirit and soul, or IOW the mind and the heart/conscience. The body is just a sinless shell like a puppet. Sin originates in the nature. When Adam sinned his nature became polluted and all ancestors inherited that change in DNA. A born again person has a cleansed nature like Adam's original nature before he willfully sinned. Plus they have the divine power of the Holy Spirit.

The reason why a baby and child have no accountable sin is because their "sins" are unintentional and not against God. This is why we baptize children who are old enough for their sins are in need to be repented. They now know right from wrong. They then need the Holy Spirit to empower them.