Who Do I Confess My Sins To?

[prism]

Our sin affects the WHOLE Church (1 Cor. 12:26, Rev. 2:14, 20-25) - not just ourselves and those whom we sinned against.

THAT'S why Christ gave His Apostles the power to forgive or retain sins in His name (John 20:21-23) and THAT'S why we are to confess to the Church.

- Christ's Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- Christ's Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Christ identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

Why do you have to start up again addressing me? Just state your view and quit feeling compelled to push it on others. Obviously we don’t agree on this, or is it you are seeking someone to turn around and attack your views so you can label them as anti-catholic or Romophobia?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why do you have to start up again addressing me? Just state your view and quit feeling compelled to push it on others. Obviously we don’t agree on this, or is it you are seeking someone to turn around and attack your views so you can label them as anti-catholic or Romophobia?

In post #176, I stated that I confess my sins to the Church and gave Scriptural support for it.

YOU responded in post #179 with:
"I confess my sins to Jesus Christ and to those I have offended."

I merely responded to YOUR response.
If this upsets you - then maybe a discussion/debate forum is NOT the best place for you to be spending your time.

 

[prism]

In post #176, I stated that I confess my sins to the Church and gave Scriptural support for it.

YOU responded in post #179 with:
"I confess my sins to Jesus Christ and to those I have offended."

I merely responded to YOUR response.
If this upsets you - then maybe a discussion/debate forum is NOT the best place for you to be spending your time.

I didn’t respond to your post in #179, I responded to my own #173.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Bible before Martin Luther

Anti-Catholic literature and people who are not familiar with the Catholic Church often say that Martin Luther, a Catholic priest, but later a revolutionary and "reformer" was the first to translate the Bible from Latin to German in 1534. This misconception is so deeply embedded in the popular mind that it is not a surprise anymore to hear the Protestant view that the vernacular Bible originated with Martin Luther. It is hard to believe that there are still some Protestant believers who make this statement at the beginning of the 21st century. There are some even more weird ideas about Bible translation. Some firmly believe that the Catholic Church turned against Martin Luther because he was the first who dared to translate the Bible from Latin into German.

By digging into history, these grandiloquent "experts" would be surprised to learn that the first printed Bible was produced by Johann Gutenberg, a Catholic,--with Church approval--in 1455. Luther was born in 1483! To go further on the number of printings, there were 18 German editions of the Bible before Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the church door in Wittenberg in 1517.

For a full view of translation history it is important to acknowledge that no books of the Bible were originally written in Latin. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew with some parts in Aramaic. The New Testament was written in Greek. The Septuagint is a Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek for the Jews in Alexandria who spoke mainly Greek at that time. This made it possible for the whole Bible to be available in Greek by about 100 A.D.

It is worth noticing that there were 198 editions of the Bible in the vernacular, the language of the laity; 626 editions altogether, all before the Protestant version, with the full approval of the Catholic Church. When using of the term "Bible Christian," many refer quite wrongly to Protestants only, as the Bible is a Catholic book written for Catholics, and explained only by the teaching authority of the Catholic Church.

The Protestant claim of "Sola Scriptura" is a fabricated, misleading suggestion, an unscriptural invention. In history we can see that every new movement when forming a new religion, wants a so-called "new Bible." A new Bible is important for these movements partially as a break away gesture to symbolize a separation from the Catholic Church and to create a Bible which contains their ideas, teachings and explanations for their existence. This is what the heretical sect of the Cathars wanted in medieval times and what the Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, etc. did later. Changing the Biblical text is prohibited, but the above mentioned sects widely violated this rule. The discrepancies led to arguments, controversies and misunderstandings between or within these movements. The nearly 35,000 Protestant sects have different interpretation of the Bible.

It is true that vast numbers could not read but the Church was not to blame for that. However, scholars point out that even illiterate Catholics knew the basic Scriptural content of the Bible, not by reading, but through the medium of art, sculpture, sermons, Passion and Miracle Plays, etc., prepared and organized by the Church.

St. Jerome proclaimed: "The ignorance of Scriptures is ignorance of Jesus."

In conclusion it is highly recommended that our misled brothers and sisters dig into history deeply enough to unveil the truth. As they said in ancient Rome: historia est magistra vitae. History is the teaching Master of Life.
The Bible before Martin Luther. - Free Online Library

This argument doesn't make a lot of sense, but oh well.
(Again, I'm anti-Catholic bashing)

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn’t respond to your post in #179, I responded to my own #173.

Again - this is a discussion/debate forum. If you don't want to have a discourse then maybe a discussion/debate forum is NOT the best place for you to be spending your time.

 

[prism]

Again - this is a discussion/debate forum. If you don't want to have a discourse then maybe a discussion/debate forum is NOT the best place for you to be spending your time.

It's called Christian Debate Forum not Christian discussion/discourse forum and you are right, I don't belong here.

James 3:17 (KJV) But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (KJV) And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's called Christian Debate Forum not Christian discussion/discourse forum and you are right, I don't belong here.

Sooooo, I guess we won't be hearing from you anymore?

 

[prism]

Sooooo, I guess we won't be hearing from you anymore?

Sounds like you are relieved.
Nope, not in a debate forum.
The truth need not be debated...only proclaimed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sounds like you are relieved.
Nope, not in a debate forum.
The truth need not be debated...only proclaimed.

Correct - this IS a debate forum.
And that's why I responded to your post.

As I stated earlier - if that bothers you - then maybe this isn't the best place for you to spend time.

 

[prism]

As I stated earlier - if that bothers you - then maybe this isn't the best place for you to spend time.

AS I have already stated, the only thing that bothers me is the ad hominem attacks rather than DEBATING the topic.
The topic is ...
Who Do I Confess My Sins To?

If that bothers you, then maybe this isn't the best place for you to spend time.
If it doesn't bother you, there is no reason for you to keep responding to me.

 

[Illuminator]

I would never confess my sins to a priest, because nowhere in Scripture does it support that a man acting as a priest has the god-given right to forgive sins.

That's because your spiritual forefathers unbiblically abolished the priesthood making the Biblical Sacrament of Reconciliation unnecessary. They made void the Word of God with their man made tradition of abolishing the sacramental priesthood.

Even the Jewish leaders said about Jesus when He forgave the paralytic his sins, "Who but God can forgive sins?" So, a priest giving absolution has not value to God at all, and it is nonsense for a priest to declare a person forgiven, when that person has never and never will repent of that sin in his or her heart. Only God knows the hearts, and knows that when we confess our sins to Him and our heart is in it, He knows that He can forgive and forget our sin because we have genuinely repented of it and is willing to forsake it.

Of course it's nonsense, to a person that thinks the priest gives absolution based on his own authority apart from the church. It's a false, scandalous, misleading mantra and a misunderstanding of what WE MEAN by absolution. The CC cannot and does not IMPOSE this ancient practice on Protestants, so why are you so worried about it??? What it boils down to is an attack on the priesthood because your straining to justify not having priests. Ministers or reverends or elders, if you even have them, take on the role of a spiritual big brother, not so much the spiritual fatherhood that Paul refers to several times.

Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.

He is not forbidding the perfunctory use of honorifics nor forbidding us to recognize that the person does have a role as a spiritual father and teacher. The example of his own apostles shows us that.
1 Cor. 4:17
1 Tim. 1:2
1 Tim 1:18
2 Tim. 2:1
Phil. 2:22
Philem. 10
None of these men were Paul’s literal sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests “father.” Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.

Confess your sins directly to God. That's fine by us.

 

[mjrhealth]

That's because your spiritual forefathers unbiblically abolished the priesthood making the Biblical Sacrament of Reconciliation unnecessary. They made void the Word of God with their man made tradition of abolishing the sacramental priesthood. Of course it's nonsense, to a person that thinks the priest gives absolution based on his own authority apart from the church. It's a false, scandalous, misleading mantra and a misunderstanding of what WE MEAN by absolution. The CC cannot and does not IMPOSE this ancient practice on Protestants, so why are you so worried about it??? What it boils down to is an attack on the priesthood because your straining to justify not having priests. Ministers or reverends or elders, if you even have them, take on the role of a spiritual big brother, not so much the spiritual fatherhood that Paul refers to several times.

Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.

He is not forbidding the perfunctory use of honorifics nor forbidding us to recognize that the person does have a role as a spiritual father and teacher. The example of his own apostles shows us that.
1 Cor. 4:17
1 Tim. 1:2
1 Tim 1:18
2 Tim. 2:1
Phil. 2:22
Philem. 10
None of these men were Paul’s literal sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests “father.” Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.

Confess your sins directly to God. That's fine by us.

Confess our sins to God, why, is He blind, dont you think He can see, Jesus died once and for all, why do the religions of this world persecute Gods people so. Once you have accepted Christ, it is done finished, but the religious make jest of His good works and think they can do it better, how they mock Him so.

I can just hear the conversation..
Hi Jesus,
Yes, “ insert name here”.
Lord forgive me of my sins..
Which ones?
I only commited 3 today Jesus they are.
1.
2.
3.
Oh is that all, I counted 321.
321 how can that be. I only remember3.
Well there was the moment you looked at this person and you lusted after them,
Oh that one.
Than there was the car that passed you and you said” I wish I had one of those”, coveting anothers goods.
Oh, would never have thought of that one.
What about the friend who hurt you and you wont forgive them.
Oh, you heard.
Than there was that moment when you pricked you finger.
Oh you heard that one too.
So would you like me to go on, or would you like me to tell you of the 234 you will commit tomorrow.
Sorry Lord no, that’s enough.
Did I or did I not dies for your Sinssssssssssssssssssssssssss, yes or no.
Yes Lord.
So are they forgiven or not.
Yes Lord, I guess I just don’t understand.
No many don’t, I died for the sins of “all mankind” though many seem to think I only died for the righteous.
So than Lord, what do I need to do.
Did I not say I would give you life, so live, I condemned all sin to the flesh, I came not to save your flesh but your spirit so that you can live with me in eternal life.
Is that not enough for you ??
Yes Lord . Thank you.

In all His Love

 

[BreadOfLife]

Confess our sins to God, why, is He blind, dont you think He can see, Jesus died once and for all, why do the religions of this world persecute Gods people so. Once you have accepted Christ, it is done finished, but the religious make jest of His good works and think they can do it better, how they mock Him so.

I can just hear the conversation..
Hi Jesus,
Yes, “ insert name here”.
Lord forgive me of my sins..
Which ones?
I only commited 3 today Jesus they are.
1.
2.
3.
Oh is that all, I counted 321.
321 how can that be. I only remember3.
Well there was the moment you looked at this person and you lusted after them,
Oh that one.
Than there was the car that passed you and you said” I wish I had one of those”, coveting anothers goods.
Oh, would never have thought of that one.
What about the friend who hurt you and you wont forgive them.
Oh, you heard.
Than there was that moment when you pricked you finger.
Oh you heard that one too.
So would you like me to go on, or would you like me to tell you of the 234 you will commit tomorrow.
Sorry Lord no, that’s enough.
Did I or did I not dies for your Sinssssssssssssssssssssssssss, yes or no.
Yes Lord.
So are they forgiven or not.
Yes Lord, I guess I just don’t understand.
No many don’t, I died for the sins of “all mankind” though many seem to think I only died for the righteous.
So than Lord, what do I need to do.
Did I not say I would give you life, so live, I condemned all sin to the flesh, I came not to save your flesh but your spirit so that you can live with me in eternal life.
Is that not enough for you ??
Yes Lord . Thank you.

In all His Love

Then, perhaps YOU can explain what NONE of your fellow anti-Catholics have been able to explain without going into a litany of Scriptural acrobatics and rationalizations.

EXPLAIN what Jesus was doing in the following verses . . .

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send YOU ."
And when he had said this, he BREATHED on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

What did Jesus mean when He told this to the Apostles?
What did the Father send Him to do that He is now sending the Apostles to do??

And AGAIN - please leave out your Scriptural acrobatics and just explain this simple text.

 

[mjrhealth]

Then, perhaps YOU can explain what NONE of your fellow anti-Catholics have been able to explain without going into a litany of Scriptural acrobatics and rationalizations.

EXPLAIN what Jesus was doing in the following verses . . .

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send YOU ."
And when he had said this, he BREATHED on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

What did Jesus mean when He told this to the Apostles?
What did the Father send Him to do that He is now sending the Apostles to do??

And AGAIN - please leave out your Scriptural acrobatics and just explain this simple text.

What BOL, dont you understand, with all the years you have being on here telling the world how clever you are, and yet you do not understand, what part of "sent" do you not get, and what has that to do with your religion.

Your priest are ordained by your church, they have no authority cept that given by your chruch, and that has nothing to do with God,

You know that bit about, " one cannot serve two master, you either love the one or hate the other, is it not "your" church you serve,

As for " anti catholic" how can one love that which is "anti Christ", it is not about the people but the religion you know "catholism'.

you know this part

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

You chose the harlot, why do you think you sound, act and carry on like her.

Is that simple enough for you, do you want it highlighted in blue, set in bold so you can see it. The truth doesn't need to be forced, only believed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What BOL, dont you understand, with all the years you have being on here telling the world how clever you are, and yet you do not understand, what part of "sent" do you not get, and what has that to do with your religion.

Your priest are ordained by your church, they have no authority cept that given by your chruch, and that has nothing to do with God,

You know that bit about, " one cannot serve two master, you either love the one or hate the other, is it not "your" church you serve,
As for " anti catholic" how can one love that which is "anti Christ", it is not about the people but the religion you know "catholism'.
you know this part

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

You chose the harlot, why do you think you sound, act and carry on like her.
Is that simple enough for you, do you want it highlighted in blue, set in bold so you can see it. The truth doesn't need to be forced, only believed.

This is PRECISELY the kind of non-answer that I have gotten from every other ignorant anti-Catholic here.
You didn't answer the question ANY better than the rest because you can't. I searched your paramilitary cult's website (aggressivechristianity.net) and they didn't have an answer either.

My questions regarding John 20:21-23 were simple:
a) What did Jesus mean when He told this to the Apostles?
b) What did the Father send Him to do that He is now sending the Apostles to do??

Thank you for acknowledging that you're NOT equipped to answer this.
Now, move aside and let somebody else give it a try . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

This is PRECISELY the kind of non-answer that I have gotten from every other ignorant anti-Catholic here.
You didn't answer the question ANY better than the rest because you can't. I searched your paramilitary cult's website (aggressivechristianity.net) and they didn't have an answer either.

My questions regarding John 20:21-23 were simple:
a) What did Jesus mean when He told this to the Apostles?
b) What did the Father send Him to do that He is now sending the Apostles to do??

Thank you for acknowledging that you're NOT equipped to answer this.
Now, move aside and let somebody else give it a try . . .

He said they get this they not you not your priests, them, get it BOL, are you so hard of understanding, He said exactly what HE meant to those whom HE said it, what BOL do you not understand simple english.

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

see no caps, no underline no yelling just plain and simple truth, is that so hard to accept.

 

[Illuminator]

He said they get this they not you not your priests, them, get it BOL, are you so hard of understanding, He said exactly what HE meant to those whom HE said it, what BOL do you not understand simple english.

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

see no caps, no underline no yelling just plain and simple truth, is that so hard to accept.

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This verse describes anti-Catholics who refuse to come to terms with John 20:21-23 .

 

[mjrhealth]

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This verse describes anti-Catholics who refuse to come to terms with John 20:21-23 .

No such thing as "anti catholic", only anti Christ, you know this bit

Mar 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:

but men love religion they love being in bondage the flesh loves self, loves to please.

Luk_16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

so which is it God or your church???

 

[Illuminator]

No such thing as "anti catholic", only anti Christ, you know this bit

Mar 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:

but men love religion they love being in bondage the flesh loves self, loves to please.

Luk_16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

so which is it God or your church???

You have been RUNNING from John 20:21-23 for three days and several posts, and all you have done is reply with stupid insults.

 

[BreadOfLife]

He said they get this they not you not your priests, them, get it BOL, are you so hard of understanding, He said exactly what HE meant to those whom HE said it, what BOL do you not understand simple english.

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

see no caps, no underline no yelling just plain and simple truth, is that so hard to accept.

Uh huh - and I've already shown that the office of the Apostles (Episkopay) was a successive office, as illustrated in Acts 1:20. This is further shown by verses like 2 Thess 2:15, 2 Thess. 3:6, 2 Tim. 2:2 and 2 Tim. 1:12-14.

I've ALSO shown that the Catholic Church goes ALL the way back to the FIRST century by quoting 1st century Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans.
Protestantism didn't rear its disobedient and rebellious head until 15 centuries later.
YOUR paramilitary sect (aggressivechristianity.net) only goes back as far as 1980.

This means that only the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have an unbroken line of Apostolic succession.
So, YES - He DID say this to our priests.

Now - how about answering the original question I have posed about FIVE times now - which you have ALL run from??
John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send YOU ."
And when he had said this, he BREATHED on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

a) What did Jesus mean when He told this to the Apostles?
b) What did the Father send Him to do that He is now sending the Apostles to do??

And AGAIN - please leave out your Scriptural acrobatics and just explain this simple text.
NOT that difficult . . .