Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[rebuilder 454]

Very unlikely. You have not really refute my position yet as you shall see.


The real question is... have you allow Scripture to interpret scripture regarding the cloud? I do not think so.

The cloud in scripture symbolizes God's Glory. e.g.:

Exodus 40:35

• "And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the Glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle".

Numbers 16:42

• "And it came to pass, when the congregation was gathered against Moses and against Aaron, that they looked toward the tabernacle of the congregation: and, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the LORD appeared."

1st Kings 8:11

• "So that the Priests could not stand to minister because of the Cloud, because the Glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord."

And many other such verses. The cloud signifies the Glory of God. This is a time of judgement upon this house when the priests will not be able to minister by reason of the Glory of God. Eg, in Revelation 11:12, when we read that the believers are told to come to kingdom of heaven by God, and they stand up from death in the streets and go into a cloud, it's signifying that they are in the Glory of God.




Verse 17 does not say that we will meet the Lord in the air and then “return to the base,” “return to Earth,” or go to some other specific place afterward. Nope. That is something you are adding to the text.

The verse plainly says that we will “meet the Lord in the air” and “so shall we ever be with the Lord.” That is the actual statement of Scripture. It does not specify a destination afterward.

You are taking what the verse actually says and then inserting your own theory about what supposedly happens next. That is not exegesis—it is imagination going beyond the text.

The rapture is the gathering of the bride.
There is No other destination than heaven.
Heaven is the realm of everything spiritual until the 2nd coming.

The fathers house has the brides house.
The virgin parable needs several changes for your doctrine.
1) "virgins" wording needs changing
2) Jesus needs war garments, Horses, and needs to do uturn back to the brides house...( not the groom's house)
3) If the rapture is actually the groom gathering his bride, which it is, most of your doctrine becomes awkward.
4) the setting needs changing and "going to buy" needs changing.
5) "door shut", would need changing to "hold on baby...we going to war....no honeymoon for you"
Yes...take "door shut" out if there. ...definately a bible error.

 

[CrowCross]

The rapture is the gathering of the bride.
There is No other destination than heaven.
Heaven is the realm of everything spiritual until the 2nd coming.

The fathers house has the brides house.
The virgin parable needs several changes for your doctrine.
1) "virgins" wording needs changing
2) Jesus needs war garments, Horses, and needs to do uturn back to the brides house...( not the groom's house)
3) If the rapture is actually the groom gathering his bride, which it is, most of your doctrine becomes awkward.
4) the setting needs changing and "going to buy" needs changing.
5) "door shut", would need changing to "hold on baby...we going to war....no honeymoon for you"
Yes...take "door shut" out if there. ...definately a bible error.

Your post reminded me of this.
The Jewish wedding and the rapture.

This link takes you to several articles explaining the pre-tribulation rapture in this context.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Your post reminded me of this.
The Jewish wedding and the rapture.

This link takes you to several articles explaining the pre-tribulation rapture in this context.

It amazes me that the fact of the rapture being the groom gathering his bride, is totally absent of the postrib doctrine.
Makes one wonder how they do not have any red flags about it.

You can read their writings for hours, and not see any mention of the purpose of the rapture .
No mention of the purpose of the Tribulation either.
They do not know anything of the Jewish harvest either.
NADA.
...nor God's purpose in the covenant Jews as VIVIDL ILLUSTRATED In Gomer And Ruth. ( authenticated in romans 9-11)

They see the ENTIRE eschatology taught as centering on them enduring the trib.
The entire thing centers on their make believe running from cave to cave with the AC bogey man running wildly after them.

Never to go to heaven
They believe they never go to heaven.
Never.
No heavenly ANYTHING for them.

Dear Lord....how perverted and bankrupt.

 

[CrowCross]

It amazes me that the fact of the rapture being the groom gathering his bride, is totally absent of the postrib doctrine.
Makes one wonder how they do not have any red flags about it.

You can read their writings for hours, and not see any mention of the purpose of the rapture .
No mention of the purpose of the Tribulation either.
They do not know anything of the Jewish harvest either.
NADA.
...nor God's purpose in the covenant Jews as VIVIDL ILLUSTRATED In Gomer And Ruth. ( authenticated in romans 9-11)

They see the ENTIRE eschatology taught as centering on them enduring the trib.
The entire thing centers on their make believe running from cave to cave with the AC bogey man running wildly after them.

Never to go to heaven
They believe they never go to heaven.
Never.
No heavenly ANYTHING for them.

Dear Lord....how perverted and bankrupt.

The bible presents Revelation as a punishment for the evil world and a means of restoring the Jews to the true Messiah.
Considering Jesus paid the price for our sins...I don't see Jesus sending His bride into the punishment of wrath described in Revelation.
It's almost as if the A-mils want to go through the tribulation.

 

[WPM]

At what point in the First Advent?

It was a unitary whole. His earthly ministry involved Him confronting and over Satan and his minions on their own playing field. The stronger strongman bound the weaker strongman. He spoilt His goods. But the legal and necessary victory over sin and death that occurred from the dead, burial and resurrection of Jesus secured Satan's defeat.

 

[WPM]

The rapture is the gathering of the bride.
There is No other destination than heaven.
Heaven is the realm of everything spiritual until the 2nd coming.

The fathers house has the brides house.
The virgin parable needs several changes for your doctrine.
1) "virgins" wording needs changing
2) Jesus needs war garments, Horses, and needs to do uturn back to the brides house...( not the groom's house)
3) If the rapture is actually the groom gathering his bride, which it is, most of your doctrine becomes awkward.
4) the setting needs changing and "going to buy" needs changing.
5) "door shut", would need changing to "hold on baby...we going to war....no honeymoon for you"
Yes...take "door shut" out if there. ...definately a bible error.

• Does Jesus have 5 or 10 brides in your estimation?
• Do you have to be a female virgin to make the rapture?
• Do you have to have a literal lamp burning with oil at the actual moment Jesus comes to perform your Pretrib rapture?

 

[WPM]

The bible presents Revelation as a punishment for the evil world and a means of restoring the Jews to the true Messiah.
Considering Jesus paid the price for our sins...I don't see Jesus sending His bride into the punishment of wrath described in Revelation.
It's almost as if the A-mils want to go through the tribulation.

So, there are no believers on earth in Revelation?

 

[WPM]

It amazes me that the fact of the rapture being the groom gathering his bride, is totally absent of the postrib doctrine.
Makes one wonder how they do not have any red flags about it.

You can read their writings for hours, and not see any mention of the purpose of the rapture .
No mention of the purpose of the Tribulation either.
They do not know anything of the Jewish harvest either.
NADA.
...nor God's purpose in the covenant Jews as VIVIDL ILLUSTRATED In Gomer And Ruth. ( authenticated in romans 9-11)

They see the ENTIRE eschatology taught as centering on them enduring the trib.
The entire thing centers on their make believe running from cave to cave with the AC bogey man running wildly after them.

Never to go to heaven
They believe they never go to heaven.
Never.
No heavenly ANYTHING for them.

Dear Lord....how perverted and bankrupt.

1. Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation?
2. Is Revelation 19 your 3rd rapture?
3. Where is your tribulation period following Matthew 24:44 (or any other rapture passage)?
4. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
5. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests? The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?
6. Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?
7. Where is "the fruit harvest " mentioned in the New Testament?
8. Where is "the barley harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
9. Where is "the wheat harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
10. Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the New Testament text or in any rapture passage?
11. Where in the New Testament does it say “there are two raptures – grain and fruit”?
12. Show us any Scripture that teaches there are "two" future "raptures"?
13. Where in the Bible does it teach that "the fig tree having two harvests are referring to two raptures”?
14. Where in the Scriptures does it teach that “the two folds of sheep are referring to two raptures”?
15. Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?
16. Show us any Scripture that teaches "the Church is removed before the great tribulation, which is the time of testing"?
17. Show us any Scripture that teaches there is a "one-year wrath of God"?
18. Can you show us anywhere in God’s holy Word that describes God having “two brides in heaven during Gods wrath”?
19. Can you show us anywhere in God’s holy Word where there are 2 future comings of Christ - "One coming at the trump of God or voice of God and one coming at the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets"?
20. Can you show us anywhere in God’s holy Word where there are 2 future comings of Christ - "One coming, the Lord Himself comes and one coming He sends His angels to gather the elect"?
21. Can you show us anywhere in God’s holy Word where there are 2 future comings of Christ - "One coming when it's like the days of Noah, and one coming when it's like the days of Lot"?
22. Can you show us anywhere in God’s holy Word where there are 2 future comings of Christ - "One coming before the great tribulation and one coming before the wrath of God"?

 

[WPM]

Maybe SATANS CHAIN IS thousands of miles long.

Problem solved.
Now the Bible is safe and amils are safe.

1. Do you believe Satan and his minions are physical beings?
2. Is the dragon in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical dragon?
3. Is the serpent in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical serpent?
4. Do you believe Satan literally has 7 heads and 7 necks?
5. Is the key mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal door key?
6. Is the chain mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal chain?
7. Is the prison mentioned in Revelation 20:7 a literal brick prison?
8. Do you believe demons need to be detained in a literal physical prison with literal metal chains in order to be restrained?
9. Can a prisoner in a prison have great wrath while in chains?
10. Does imprisonment mean immobility?
11. Does it mean a prisoner cannot do harm?
12. Can a dog on a chain walk or roam about?
13. Can a prisoner in a prison walk or roam about?
14. Can a prisoner deceive others in prison?
15. Does a prisoner have the ability to kill, steal, destroy, rape and embezzle in prison?
16. When the Bible talk about the wicked being bound in chains do you believe these are literal physical chains?
17. When the Bible talk about the wicked being imprisoned do you believe they are all in literal physical brick prisons?

 

[amigo de christo]

The Holy Scriptures are Harmonious

A person must be willing to have faith in "every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God" to HEAR the MELODY

What would you do if i told you that a harlot has indeed infiltrated .
And what would you do if i told you that even many who have an outward dress in wool
but within is but death is singing and dancing now to the melody OF SAID HARLOT .
Who indeed can appear as though she has a husband and can claim she does
and YET within her chambers is naught but death and SHE HAS not GOD but another is she wed too my friend .
You see you just wrote something that is very and quite true . And i noticed you said EVERY WORD , again THAT IS TRUE .
And yet many seem to be sitting under those who BELIEVE NOT EV ERY W ORD of GOD
but rather the words and doctrines of men and of a harlots love .
YOU SEE they PICK AND CHOOSE . and even what they pick THEY DO TWIST to fit
what they truly desired to beleive . A LIE that fed their flesh and gave them also a promise of eternal life .
But do let us remember GOD is not man that HE CAN LIE . AND HIS EVERY , not most , not some BUT EVERY WORD IS TRUTH
and DARN SURE IS MEAT for the sheep .

 

[amigo de christo]

The Holy Scriptures are Harmonious

A person must be willing to have faith in "every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God" to HEAR the MELODY

The holy scrips are indeed harmonious . one beautiful flow that DOES NOT contradict itself .
AND YET I SEE many and that number is too high for this mere mortal man to count ,
that are even within christendom and yet their melody has the words of GOD pitted against the Words of GOD .
AS IF GOD CONTRADICTS HIMSELF . AS IF HIS WORDS contradict themselves .
YA SEE THE PROBLEM YET .
WHEN a love , a unity , a freedom , a l iberty , a anything contradicts and has the words of GOD contradicting
the words of GOD , YOU CANT BET SOMEONE IS L YING . AND IT AINT GOD EITHER . its men and its those dark spirits
that simply FEED the wicked heart of man exactly what that wicked heart wants to hear and to beleive , AND IT IS A LIE .
But for the sheep of THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST they heed THIS VOICE
for THIS cause came i into the world and for this very reason was i BORN to TESTIFY OF THE TRUTH .
SHEEP HEAR and SHEEP HEED THE TRUTH . SHEEP BELIEVE THE TRUTH . Sheep have a new heart .
And that heart has the LOVE OF GOD SHED UPON IT .
AND YOU can BET IF ITS THE LOVE OF GOD , ITS GONNA PUT GOD , HIS ChRIST , FIRST and before all .
GOD always desired OBEDIANCE . AND IN THE SON we can LIVE BY HIM and do have
THE LOVE OF GOD that would have GIVEN US the DESIRES THAT PLEASE GOD . AND SIN AND LIES DO NOT PLEASE GOD
That is so simple my friend . In fact THIS IS WHAT PLEASES GOD , FAITH , TO BELIEVE and THUS OBEY HIM .