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Who is Israel?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by betchevy, Apr 14, 2007.

  1. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    The God of Israel...the God of Abraham, Issaac and Jacob....God created Isreal from the loins of Abrahm ...who he made into Abraham....when he blessed him with HIS name and he said he would be the father of many nations...The line of Abraham became the tribes of Israel, they further were banished from the land for disobeying God and not keeping His commandments...but He said that he would restore her in the last generation before the end of days...and He would gather her from the nations...Sifted from them...GOD DOES NOT LIE....he never said He's replace her........never!The LOST TRIBES were exiled by the Syrians and by Nebbuchanezer to the land beyond the Caucaus mountains and they were the people who blushed they are the CAUCASIONS....They are you....and God is beginning to sift, to bring those He chose from the beginning those in whom he placed the souls of the faithful in the first age and the battle from the beginning is still going on. the battle of Cain and Able the children of God against the children of Cain... who comes against you and why? Its the child whom it was told by God in Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between THY SEED and HER SEED...later God instructs us of her seed..to leave the tares for His angels to reap...to them he says this in John 8 39: If ye were Abrahams children, ye would do the works of Abraham.....But now ye see to kill me a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God; this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father If God were your father you would love me for I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but he sent me. Why do you not understnd my speech even because you cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father thedevil and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh he speaketh of his own for he is a LIAR and the father of it.Jesus speaks of the nations of Abraham being the sons of God, would he then in the same genereation have his disciples preach that Abraham covenant was no more? No this is a LIE from the LIAR... Jesus told us he would send his children out with his words of lies... you can read them right here on this forum...but do not believe Satan or his children who say God is a liar who does not keep his promises... God will never fail...leave the liars alone, let their words be unread and unheard...God will show you his truth in His word and will redeem His own and throw the tares in the fire...to never harass us again.
     
  2. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    You are a liar... and a child of the Father of lies...if you say God will not fulfill His promise to Abraham or to Israel, you are a liar... and we see your lies shine ssssssssss.
     
  3. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    Aaaaand by their fruit ye shall know them... without love they are empty words see them for who they are... how they relate to the others here... you will see clearly ..
     
  4. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    words on end are just that ...Satan twists the word of God as he did in the desert with Christ so his does today through the words of his servant here to mislead the babes in Christ.. not one word of care, or feeling but endless twisted scripture devoid of the truth of God.
     
  5. Bevex

    Bevex New Member

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    So, who is Israel? (could I get the succinct version)Who is Israel today?
     
  6. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    Those who are hidden among the nations..many americans and europeans......
     
  7. Bevex

    Bevex New Member

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    How about something less vague?
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    There is nothing less vague The ten tribes migraed over the Caucas Mt.intoScotland,ireland and into England and then to America and around the world the Jews we know of in Jerusalem are the two tribes of Levi and Judah the rest(10 tribes) are hidden among the nations many not knowing who they are.
     
  9. Bevex

    Bevex New Member

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    Okay, thanks.
     
  10. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    WHO IS TRUE ISRAEL? by [the late] Col. Jack Mohr U.S. Army, Ret. Whenever it is declared that the United States, Britain and other Nordic countries are Israelites, and that they are the Chosen People of God, most Christians call this false and without foundation. However, it is interesting to note, that they refuse to give any Scriptures to prove this reasoning is wrong. They always put us on the defensive by demanding proof for our claims and in response, we give them evidence from Scripture, history, etymology and heraldry. As a reaction to the usual tactics of our opponents, the order has been reversed in what you are about to read. In I Peter 3:15, the Apostle admonished Christians to ''be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear." I'm afraid, that sometimes, we who know the Identity truth, have a tendency to get "mean" and "sarcastic," instead of remaining meek in our answers. The true meaning of our Identity, should not engender a spirit of superiority in us. Instead, it should bring a great deal of humbleness, as we realize the tremendous responsibility God has placed on us to spread this marvelous truth. So let me ask - not with sarcasm, but with humility. Can those who disagree with our belief that white Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Germanic and related peoples are the "true Israel" of God, can they PROVE from the Scriptures that WE are not Israel and that the people we now know as Jews are? Man's answer to be true, MUST come from God Himself. It must not be something he learned in a seminary, or from some man with a D.D. behind his name. The only criteria we have MUST be, does God's Word teach it? That this issue may be clear at the start: most Christians state that the Jew's and Israel are one and the same; that the United States, the British Commonwealth nation, and the Nordic nations are Gentile (in the sense of heathen) nation, If their claim is true and the Jews, are the "Israel of God," then they MUST FULFILL EVERY SCRIPTURE WHICH GOD SAID ISRAEL WOULD FULFILL.. So let me ask you the following question. I do not ask you to believe what I say, but be honest enough to read and believe what the Word of God says: 1 - Have the Jews blessed all the nations of the earth. Genesis, 12:3: 22:18? 2 - Have the Jews ever been circumcised in heart? Deut. 10:16: 30:6; Rom. 2:28, 29: Phil. 3:3; Co. 2:9, 11. 3 - Have the Jews ever glorified Jesus Christ? Has Christ been recognized by the Jewish nation? Isaiah 41:16; Luke 1:32; 7:16. 4 - Do the Jews declare that Christ is the GOD of Israel of the Old Testament? Isaiah 43:10-12; 44:8; 49:3, 6; 52:6: Acts 1:8. 5 - Do the Jews show forth the praise of Jesus Christ? Isaiah 43:21. 6 - Have the Jews carried the gospel to all the world? Have they witnessed for Jesus Christ? Have they opened the Bible for the world? Gen. 28:14; Isa. 43:10; 44:21; 49:3, 6; Acts 1:8. Who has carried the Word of God into all the world? Who has published the Bible, or portions of it in over 1,000 language', and dialects? Who has been responsible for over 95% of all the world missionary activity? Which nations of the earth have based their laws on God's laws? There is only one answer and you know it. It has been the United States of America and the British Commonwealth. 7 - Do the Jews have God's Spirit and the Word of God in their mouth and their uttermost being? Isaiah 59:21. Oh no, my Christian friend, their religion is based on a heathen book called the Babylonian Talmud, which repudiates everything the Bible teaches. It is the work of Satan himself. 8 - Was the New Covenant written only to the Jews? The Bible states that it was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Jer. 31:33; Hebrews 8:8-10; Matt. 26:28. 9 - Are the Jews the SHEEP of the House of Israel? Ezek. 34:11, 12; Ps. 78:52; 95:1,6,7; Isa. 53:6; John. 10:26, 27; Matt. 15:24. In the passage from John 10, our Lord clearly states to the Jewish rulers: "Ye believe not, because ye are not my sheep." How much plainer must the Word of God be for you to believe? 10 - Are the Jews the "children of God scattered abroad?" John 11:52; 10:16; 7:35. Certainly the Israelites "scattered abroad among the Gentiles," were not Jews. When Jesus said in Matt. 10:6 and 15:24, that He was sent only to the "Lost sheep of the House of Israel, "He was not speaking of being spiritually lost. The word for lost, as used here, is the Greek word: "appolumi," it comes from two root words: "apo", meaning "separation," and "ollumi" meaning "death or punishment." Put the two together and you have: "those who are banished or put away for punishment. "This could only have had reference to the ten tribes of Israel who had been taken captive into Assyria, as punishment for their idolatry. 11 - Is Jesus being glorified in the Jews? Isa. 49:3; Rom 8:28, 29; 11:1, 2; 9:4. Always remember, there is a vast difference made in Scripture between Israelites and Jews. They are not one and the same, as your preachers have told you. To say they are is "intellectual dishonesty'' of the worst sort! 12 - Are the Jews the SERVANTS of God? Isa.41:8; 43:10; 49:3. The Jewish leaders them-selves say that their God is "materialism." They do not believe in the God of the Bible and their Talmud repudiates the God of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob. 13 - Are the Jews a Holy Nation, a Chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a peculiar people? (The word peculiar means: "set aside for a special purpose.") Ex. 19:5, 6; 1 Peter 2:9, 10; 1:1, 2. Notice especially, how Peter addresses his Epistle "To the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Asia, and Bithtnia," in others words Asia Minor. These were not Jews, but Israelites. 14- Are the Jews the great characters mentioned in the "faith chapter" of the Bible, Hebrews) 11? Abel was not a Jew, neither Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Sarah, Isaac, Joseph, Moses, Gideon, Barak, Samson, David, Samuel. None of these were Jews. There were no people known by the name of Jews, until 2 Kings 16:6, where the name is used for the first time. This was in 742 B.C. at least 1,100 years after the death of Abraham. Oh I know that your pastor has called Moses a Jew, but this is not what the Bible says. 15 - Are the Jews a "righteous nation?" Isa. 26:2. If you will honestly check the record of history, you will find that the Jews have always been a wicked, unrighteous people. They have not been persecuted because Satan hates them, as Jerry Falwell will tell you, for John 8:44 tells us that thy are of "their father the devil." Satan will not persecute his own children. The Jews have been kicked out of every nation in Europe at some time or other and always for the same reason. Their wickedness, their avarice, and their greed. I challenge you to look at every evil which is destroying America, which is strangling our freedom and at the top you will find Jewish names in charge. This has been the indictment of all history against these evil people they never have been a "righteous nation." 16 - Are the Jews bringing forth the "fruits of the Kingdom of God?" Hosea 14:8; Matt. 21:43. In the Matthew passage, Jesus speaking to the Jews clearly states that the "kingdom of God (this refers to God's earthly Kingdom) shall he taken from you (JEWS) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Certainly the ungodly crew which is now in Palestine, is not bringing forth ''the fruits of the Kingdom. 17- Are the Jews kind to strangers? Lev. 19:33, 34; Matt. 25:31-46. Today in Palestine, if are not a Jew, you have no rights in the nation of Israeli. A Christian has no rights and a foreigner, unless he is one of the gullible Christians who is being brainwashed by a visit to the Holy Land, is treated as dirt under the feet of the Israeli. 18 - Are the Jews called the "sons of the living God?" Hosea 1:10. They have absolutely no right to this title. 19 - Do the Jews tell us that they are "not God's People?" Hosea 1:10. No, they boast that they are God's Chosen and that is why they have the right to the Land of Palestine. But the Bible says: "in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God." 20 - Do the Jews have all of God's Word? Romans 9:3-5; Ps. 147:19, 20; Deut. 33:4. The Jews do not have the Laws of Moses, for they have been superseded by the heathen Babylonian Talmud, which is the Jew's Bible. 21 - Are the Jews a great and mighty nation? Gen. 18:18. They number less than 3-million in Palestine and more Jew's are leaving than are coming in. 22 - Are the Jews today as innumerable as the stars of the heaven and the sands of the sea? Of course not. They number about 16-million, the same number as were alive in the time of Solomon. 23 - Do the Jew's "possess the gates of their enemies?" Gen. 22:17; 24:60. Of course they don't. They do not control the Suez Canal, or the Straits of Gibraltar. They control only a tiny bit of real estate in Palestine. They would collapse within six months if the United States did not underwrite them. Their own leaders admit that it is our aid that keeps them alive. 24 - Are the Jews a nation and a company of nations? Gen. 35:11; 48:19. The Zionist State in Palestine does not represent all Jews world-wide and it is certainly not a "company of nations." The only group that qualifies here is the Anglo-Saxon and related peoples. 25 - Are the Jew's above all people on the face of the earth? Deut. 7:6; 12:2; Ps. 135:4; Amos 3:2. There is no question that they would like to be. Their leaders for centuries have preached Jewish superiority. But today they are struggling to stay alive. 26 - Are the Jews now or have they ever been "God's battle axe?" Num. 24:8, 9; Isa. 41:15, 16; Jer. 51:20-23. The "true Israel" of God was to be a group of nations which would always war against evil. This has never been true of the Jews, they have always been the source of world evil. If you don't want to accept this, I challenge you to look at the names of those who were behind the Communist Revolution; over 90% were Russian Jews. (Interestingly enough - Jew's who had not one drop of Abraham's blood flowing in their veins, as is the case of the vast majority of those who are now in Palestine.) 27 - Have the Jews had an earthly king down through the centuries, who has been of the lineage of David? If they are Israel, the Bible says there must be a Davidic king among them somewhere. Ps. 89:27-29, 35-37; Jer. 33.17.They have not had a king since Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. But there is a people who have had royalty dating back to David. Whether you are willing to accept it or not; they can be found in the British royal family. You or your pastor may not want to accept this, but the proof is in the archives in London. 28 - Are the Jews called today through Isaac? (The word Saxons, is a derivative of the Hebrew words which means "sons of Isaac.") Gen. 21:12; Amos 7:16; Rom. 9:7; Heb. 11:18. 29 - Do today's Jews claim to have lost their identity? Hosea 1:9, 10; 2:6; Isa. 1:3; 42:19; Deut. 32:26; Jer. 50:6, 7; Hosea 8:8; 9:17. The Jews brag that they are God's Chosen People but the Bible says that very few' of "true Israel" will realize who they are. 30 - Do the Jew's have a new' name today? Isa. 62:2; 65:15; Hosea 1:10; Rom. 9:25, 26; 1 Peter 2:10; Acts 11:26. The people we now know as Jews, have been called by that name since 742 B.C. But God's "true Israel," will not only have a new name, but a new language, Isa. 28:11. (And by the way, this is not speaking here of "glossolalia" - "speaking in tongues.'') 31 - Are the heathen nations aligned against the Jew's alone? Joel 3:9; Ps. 83. If you will take time to do some honest studying, you will find that the Communist nations of the world have not built up their tremendous armaments to fight against tiny Israeli. They are aligned against the white Christian world. This you know! 32 - Are the Jews described nationally as a "great lion?" Gen. 49:9; Num. 23:24, 24:9. No, this designation is made of only one group of nations, the British Commonwealth. 33 - Did the Jews deliver Jerusalem from the Turks in 1917? Luke 21:24. This occurred on the date predicted in Haggai 2:18, 19, 22 -December 9, 1917, which was predicted 604 years before the birth of Christ. It was numbered from the first assault against Jerusalem made by Nebuchadnezzar, plus 2500 years, see Lev. 26:18, 21, 24, 28; Ezek. 4:6; Rev. 2:3; 12:6, 14. It was the "lions of Great Britain" who rescued Jerusalem, another plus for the Israel Identity people, but not recognized by a majority of our preachers. 34 - Have the Jew's ever been called "Great?" Gen. 12:2. Only one nation has, "Great Britain." 35 - Have the Jews released those who have been in slavery? Isa. 42:7; 58:6. No, they have always been "slave traders." It was the Jews who brought the blacks to America in the first place and it was Jewish money, that fought a phony war in 1860, over the slavery issue. It was Great Britain who first abolished slavery, followed by her younger brother America in 1865. 36 - Have the Jew's ever been a colonizing people? Isa. 35:1; 49:8; Gen. 28:14. Only the Anglo-Saxon and related peoples have been known as colonizers, as they spread out to the east and west, north and south as promised in Gen. 28:14. The Jew's have never been great for going to desolate places and building them up; they were always content to move in on established places and cling to them like some bloodsucking leech. 37 - Lastly, do the Jew's recognize Jesus Christ as God? The Bible says the "True Israelites" would. Isa. 43:10, 12; Luke 1:68; 1 Tim 3:16; Acts 3:14. There are many more proofs I could give. But if you are not willing to accept these, no amount of proof would get you to change your mind and it is under the control of a Satanic power which will keep you from ever knowing the truth.The separation of the twelve tribes of Israel into the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah, seems to be the major stumblingblock for our preachers and teachers. Few seem to understand that these were distinct and very different peoples. For about 400 years, all thirteen tribes (counting Ephraim and Manasseh) were under one head, but after the death of Solomon, when he had turned from God by marrying heathen wives, God told him that the kingdom would be taken from him and given to Jeroboam. The Kingdom was split over excessive taxation, with Judah, Benjamin and half of Levi, forming the Southern Kingdom of Judah and the Northern Kingdom of Israel, called Ephraim or Samaria. This Northern Kingdom was taken into captivity into Assyria and was scattered beyond the Euphrates River (2 Kings 17:6). The major part of Judah went with them (2 Kings 18:13). The remainder, except for a small portion known as the "bad figs" of Jer. 24:8-10; were taken to Babylon. Of the total number, only 42,660 at one time (Ezra 2:64; Neh. 7:66) and about 5.000 at another time (Ezra 8:3-20) ever returned. Of this group, many were not Judaites. Those of Judah taken with Israel trekked westward after Ephraim (Hos. 12:1; Micah 2:12, 13.) (The "good fig" portion of Jer. 24:5-7 are probably Germany, as an incident taking place in 1914 at the Battle of Mons, when 10,000 German cavalry, charging British lines, saw the "White Cavalry" and stopped, quivering. The riders were frightened, the horses blinded and destroyed as predicted in Zech. 12:4.) The German people have always been noted for their industrial and scientific achievements and military poweress [prowess?-WBSG] (See Gen. 49:8). World War I and 11, was a fulfillment of Isa. 9:19-21 and Zech. 12:6. All of the royal houses of Europe except one, are of Germanic origin (Gen. 49:10; 35:11). The breach I between these two branches of Israel will be healed as promised in Isa. 11:13; Jer. 3:18. German safety will come before that of England and the United States to show us that we are not the only object of God's favor. (See Zech. 12:7). (And this Judah, is not the people we now call Jews.) In this connection, it might be well for you readers to know, that according to Jewish sources, more than 90% of the people in Palestine who go by the name of Jew, have not one drop of Abraham's blood in their veins. They are Khazar Jews from Russia and are Turco-Mongolians who were converted to Talmudic Judaism in the Eighth Century. If you are honest, there is only one conclusion you can draw after researching the Scriptures and history; this is that the people we now call Jews cannot be the House of Israel, or the House of Judah and that they are not now, nor ever have been Israelites. The modern day Jews are frauds and imposters, who would like to steal back the "birthright" their father Esau lost to his brother Jacob many centuries ago. They are the "false Jews" of Rev. 2:9; 3:9, who "say they are Jews and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan." Who are you going to believe? Your pastor, who has lied to you all these years, (very possibly not knowingly, but he has lied nevertheless) or Jesus Christ the Son of God, as revealed in the Bible? Choose today, who you are going to follow! The End
     
  11. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Hosea Hosea was a prophet speaking to all 12 tribes. The 10 tribes of the "The House of Israel", was the Northern Kingdom, and the 2 tribes of "The House of Judah". was the Southern Kingdom, they were given good news by Hosea. The prophecy was given in the time of the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah; they were the Kings of the "House of Judah" (Judah).The time of Hosea's prophecy covered seventy two years, from the 14th year of Uzziah, to the start of the reign of Hezekiah.The first chapter of Hosea is a warning by God to the Northern Nation’s, the 10 tribes or "House of Israel." Their capitol is Samaria, and God is telling them, they are about to have a terrible end. Their nation is about to be destroyed, and separated from God.This falling away has come about by their worshipping of idols (the two golden calf's) and many other forms of idolatry and fornication.Hosea 1:1 "The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Herekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.The name Hoses" means Salvation, and by tradition, the name "Beeri" is attached to the tribe of Reuben (1 Chronicles. 5:6).Hosea 1:2 "The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea, And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD."This is the start of many prophecies, and by fifteen different prophets, to prophecy against the "House of Israel".The "wife of whoredoms", is because the Northern nation refused to worship God, God's way. To worship at His altar, at His temple, in Jerusalem. Israel was divided into two nations following king Solomon's death. The name of Israel stayed with the majority of the tribes, for back in Genesis 48, Jacob told Joseph his name was "Israel" and would always be on the head of his, "Joseph's", son Ephraim.Judah, or "The house of Israel fell into calf worship, and all forms of idolatry, Judah held fast the worshipping of the one true God, Jehovah, in God's temple in Jerusalem.The religious forms of Israel are considered a "Woman", and all those worshipping them are considered idolatries.The subject of this chapter is the idolatries of the Northern Kingdom, and the children, or offspring of the people of that kingdom. This woman is an idolatrous. The "Land" is "eretz" in the Hebrew, meaning "earth." The people on that land committed these sin.Hosea 1:3 "So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son."God ordered Hosea to go and marry a *****, "Take thee a wife of whoredoms", in verse 2. Hosea went and did exactly as God commanded them to do. His wife's name was Gomer, and in the Hebrew meaning completion. She was the daughter of Dibiaim, which in the Hebrew has two meanings; a double cake of figs, and also is symbolical of sensual pleasure.This, again, is an object lesson to Israel of what God is about to do to them. So pay close attention to names and events. It is not directed to the House of Judah, the Jews.Hosea 1:4 "And the LORD said unto him, "Call his name Jezreel: for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel."The name "Jezreel" in the Hebrew, is prophetic of a coming judgment. Note the Hebrew word, also "Paronomsia" means "Repetition in sound, but not in sense. "Jezreel" then is God's first warning to the "House of Israel" and states that a prophetic judgment is about to come upon them. At the proper time. It is God who will avenge Israel for her wickedness and idolatry. God said "I will cause the House of Israel to cease". That means no more are they going to exist as a nation, or be identified with God, as God's people. This is not directed to the Jews, only to the 10 tribes. King Jehu, the "House of Jehu", carried out God's judgment on the House of Ahab", and committed murder. What Jehu did was not God's will, but a power grab. He then continued in the same idolatries as Ahab's Kingdom followed.So Hosea's first son's named, "Jezreel" is God telling Israel in symbolic form, that He is about to scatter them (see also Jere. 31:10); and they will not exist as a nation anymore.Hosea 1:5 "And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel."In reference to "That day", is the day Israel was overthrown, and carried away by the Assyrian's. It is recorded in II Kings 18:11.The "Bow" is "Metonymy" in the Hebrew (of the adjunct). It means "Bow" is substituted for everything representing "The house of Israel" as a nation. Their army, government, language, religion, and what ever else identifies them is belonging to the "House of Israel."It shall and did come to pass as God spoke it, most of all the offspring of the "House of Israel" have no idea who they are or how they are attached. Yet God's prophecies of these end times is saturated with the "House of Israel" in their lands, and dealt separately from the Jews.One key in understanding who they are is in the word "Caucasian", it is that race of people who migrated through the Caucasus Mountains, and spread out throughout the Western Europe, later to the Americas, and colonizing into nations around the world. They came through the Caucasus Mountains at exactly the same historical time as the "House of Israel" was dismantled by God's servants, the Assyrian's, and taken to an area just south of these mountains.Hosea 1:6 "And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, "Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away."Hosea and Gomer have a second child, a daughter, and God told Hosea to call her name "Lo-ruhamah": which means "not compassionated", or "not beloved". This is why Paul in Romans 9:25 used the expression "not having obtained mercy, with respect to the "House of Israel"The "house of Israel", on Israel (not Jews) were utterly dismantled, as any remembrance of being God's people. They were so scattered they forgot who they were.Hosea 1:7 "But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, not by horsemen."Verse seven is not a "interpolation", or "Inserting of new material" into the subject but rather a clarification that God is going to handle and treat Israel, and Judah separately from now on. Israel, God is going to divorce, while Judah He is not. Israel, and Judah are dealt with separately from now on. God will have "No mercy" (Lo-ruhamah) on Israel; while He will show mercy of Judah, even through Judah's captivity in Babylon. "By the Lord their God", is a commitment of Jehovah to Judah.Hosea 1:8 "Now when she weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.Hosea 1:9 "Then said God, "Call his name Lo-ammi" for ye are not My People, I will not be your God.""Lo-Ammi" in Hebrew means "Not my people." Remember this chapter, as the book, is a symbolic gesture, using Hosea's family as a reminder of what God is going to do, and latter did, to the House of Israel" (not the Jews).In the Hebrew text, God told Israel, "I am not (I am) to you." I am is God's eternal name. God disclaims any ownership of Israel."Lo-Ammi" is Hosea's third child, and through these three children, God has sent His message to Israel; "Jezreel" means, God will cease their Kingdom, "Lo-Ruhamah" means , God will not have compassion on their people; and "Lo-Ammi" means, you are not my people.Hosea 1:10 "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured not numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, We are not My People," there it shall be said unto them, "Ye are the sons of the living GOD."This verse is directed to the latter days; The generation we are in now. It is talking only of the "House of Israel" (Children of Israel) and not Judah.Today the Jews are numbered, and in World War 11, the Germans reduced that number by a large percentage. God is saying here, that you cannot number Israel, so where are Israelites?They are comprise of all the Christian Nations around the world. All Western Europe is comprised of these Israelites; and America. The United States is Manasseh. Our Crest, seal and every thing about us is confirmed by scripture as to the makeup of Manasseh in the final generation.Most of the false ministers are teaching a doctrine which can not exist along side the truth of the word of God; and thus attribute any prophecy directed at Israel, to the Jews. This is why their interpretation of their Bible prophecy never works out.Many Prophets today write books explaining Bible prophecies, yet they rewrite their books, making changes to allow for the part of their prophecy which was untrue. This correction is necessary because their understanding of God's word is built upon man's traditions, and not God's word. They simply do not understand that God dealt with Israel and Judah separately. God divorced Israel, and scattered them. God allowed Israel to grow into many nations in these end times.Today when these Israelites, divorced by God, accept God's salvation message, and come to God through Christ's shed blood, they take on a new identity. They are now called "Christians" and are known as the Son's of God. Though they are Christians, they are still "Israel" with regards to Bible Prophecy, projected ahead to our generation, and living today in Christian Nations wherever those Nations exist."There", in that place, "it shall be said unto (or) them, "ye are the sons of the living God". That name today is "Christian." If you do not understand that those son's of the living God or that (Christians) are Israel in our last generation, then you will be off on all kinds of interpretations regarding the end time prophecy. Judah has a totally different set of prophecies.Judah is, and has returned to Palestine, thus planting the shoot of the Fig Tree that started the countdown in this final generation. Israel does not move back; there are simply to many of them. That is why God told Hosea, "that in the place where I said unto them, ye are not my People.", that place is where ever they happen to call home, England, Canada, the U.S.A. or where ever they are; they are to be the ones to fulfill the prophecies pertaining to "Israel", or the "House of Israel".The two tribes to carry the name Israel, and Abraham's blessing was given to Joseph's two son's. This is recorded in Genesis 48: 14-20. The Scepter, was given to rule, over Israel and was given to Judah. Gen. 49: 8-10.Hosea 1: 11 "Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land; for great shall be the day of Jezreel."This "Day of Jezreel" is also called , the "Day of the LORD". It is the day that Israel will be restored with Judah as one people. We know this has not happened yet, but at the seventh trump, when our Lord Jesus Christ returns, this joining will take place. This is what Romans 11:14-16 is all about , the restoring of Israel.It is important to fix in your mind on this separation of Israel from God, yet in the end God will bring back Israel to Christ, by means of Christ's death on the cross. Remembering that Israel and Judah are dealt with separately. At the seventh Trump the battle of Armageddon is for the protections of Judah in the middle east; while Hamon-Gog (multitude of Gog") is for the protection of Israel. By the description in Obadiah and Ezekiel 38 & 39, I believe Hamon-God will be in Alaska, or Northern Canada.Study was written by Roger Christopherson
     
  12. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

    Israel, long, but hopefully a contribution to the thread.This is the question, does Israel play a future part with the Lord. We find evangelicals are divided on this. There are those who say yes, that there is an overwhelming testimony of a future for Israel, and then there are those who say no, that Israel’s blessings have been transferred spiritually to the church, and the church now is the real Israel. The church is the spiritual Israel, and so, the people who hold that view don’t see any future for Israel as a nation. This is very important, after all, we are trying to search out the revealed truth as the Lord has set forth in regard to this Book, and we can’t afford to err on this. In Exodus chapter 19, God made some remarkable statements on what He was prepared to do for them, but it was a conditional covenant.Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. There had never been such a thing before, but IF...THEN, they should be a peculiar people, set apart from all nations…BUT they didn’t, they broke the laws THEY BROKE THE COVENANT. So, IF, this was all that God had revealed, then we should have to admit there would be no future at all, for the Jew as a nation, they didn’t meet the conditions, and they’ve got no claim on the covenant made with the Lord. However, we do find that later on God made another covenant, and we should want to know about it. Jer 31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: {Now, is this the same house of Israel? Well, it must be because God references the first covenant}Jer 31:32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; {we can’t spiritualize that, it is a real people God took out of a real Egypt} which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel{same people}; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;{If God had of done that in the beginning, He would half to keep it, but He didn’t, it was a test. They haven’t got the law written in their heart, and we go wrong the same way, we must search for the truth and we still go wrong. But God says He will do this}I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.{there are no if’s there, not if they keep MY law, but God says I will do it}Jer 31:34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.{and then God appeals to creation}Jer 31:35Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: Jer 31:36If {here is the first IF, but it isn’t for Israel, it is a challenge thrown out}those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. {note those words, “a nation before me”. This is not just a blessing of individual Jews being saved by the gospel today}Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, {if you can do that, God says}I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. {what a challenge, nobody can accept it, nobody can do it, so there must then, be a future for these people, otherwise, we may as well close the Book, because God couldn’t be more emphatic and more clear}Lets turn to the apostle Paul, where he is dealing with these people and their lack of response, their opposition to the gospel; their attitude covered all thru the period covered by the Acts of the apostles. And God had opened the door thru Peter’s ministry, and he tells us here why:Rom 11:11I say then, Have they {the Jew} stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. {in order to stimulate them, if possible, speaking after the manner of men}Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world,{notice the words} what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Well, some say there is going to be no receiving of them, God is finished with them, but that isn’t what this says here at all. God has temporarily lopped them off, some of the branches, as God speaks of them figuratively, as to a tree. God is able to put them back again, and when that happens, its going to be like resurrection; “life from the dead”. Well, that’s what a dead man needs, if there’s going to be any future for him. That’s what the world is like, spiritually dead.Its going to for a people, that THAT people are going to receive in resurrection life. Life from the dead. God makes it know in the OT, that they are going to be raised, they are going to know the power of God’s resurrection as a nation. And when this happens, it will be like, life, from the dead. Rom 11:24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature{the olive tree is simply a symbol},and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?{this is the receiving of them back again. Now, he’s going to drop the symbol and tell the Jews plainly}Rom 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.{if we don’t understand what the fullness of the Gentiles is, we can at least tell, that it is not forever, but only until something happens, and then after that}Rom 11:26And so all Israel shall be saved{He makes it clear here, this is not the church which is His body, but ALL Israel shall be saved, this is his people here, they are my flesh, Paul describes them in chapter 9, his own kinsmen, all Israel shall be saved}: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:{Still Israel here, Jacob! And of course, their only hope is they are going to have a Savior, the same Savior that saved you and me is the same Savior that is going to deliver them, He’s coming to save them; and He therefore shall save them. Do you remember the covenant, “I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more”; and when the Lord was here, He instituted, He said, this is my new covenant, in my blood which is shed for many; for it didn’t depend upon them, it depended upon Christ and that one perfect sacrifice that the Lord Jesus Christ made, and upon that basis, and upon the revealed word of God, that at the return of Christ, when they look on Him, whom they had pierced. That will be sufficient, at last, to bring them to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus, a nation usable at last, by God, to be a channel of blessing to the whole earth; for “all Israel shall be saved”}Rom 11:27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. {well, that can only be that new covenant we’ve been talking about}Rom 11:28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election{this is touching a part of the plan of God, they’ve got a part in this glorious plan, they are a nation that’s been chosen for a purpose}they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. Rom 11:29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Lets do get clear in our mind, what this word repentance is. It doesn’t mean to be sorry and to weep tears, it may lead to that, but it means a change of mind, a change of attitude, a "new man". So here, is a most marvelous statement, that God does not change His mind, it is a gift and calling given without repentance over His purposes. From this fact alone, we can see that God has brought them into His glorious plan, and He does not change His mind. But some are teaching that God has transferred all His plans and all His purpose to the church, which goes flatly against what scripture has made so clear, stated so plainly, that He hasn’t altered His plan. These teachings that spiritualize the church into Israel, also teach that there is no literal kingdom for a 1,000 years, that instead, it is all spiritualized. So we ought to be quite sure that we are resting on scripture and not on the opinion of men, however good they are. Jer 33:25Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Jer 33:26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
     
  13. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

    God throws out another challenge. And so there can be no casting off for these people. I want you to see, that this is not just a couple of isolated text; its all over the scriptures, if we only have eyes to see, and hearts to believe.
     
  14. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    The mystery is who is Israel? the mytery is how was Israel chosen... as stated in the Ephesians 1-13 verses stated in another thread you cannot chose what you think the mystery to be, but must go by the word or God and what it states, you cannot mislead with this abundance of words, Epo.. God has chosen whom He will and for the reasons beyond our remembrance...Satan is the author of confusion.....I am praying for you to come out of confusion..For you refute yourself here....
     
  15. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

    why do you think or the time of her choosing, OR THAT ISRAEL, WAS EVER a mystery? Ephesians is not about Israel, Paul specifically say again and again that this letter is for gentiles, for the hope of you gentiles. In fact, Ephesians never even mention the inheritance of Israel, never mentions Abraham Issac or Jacob.If an abundance of Scripture cannot convict you of who Israel is, then I don't know what could ! All I did was show Scripture which pertains to the fact that an overwhelming testimony of a future for Israel is found yet to be fulfilled.When was Israel chosen?Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. AND HERE IT IS ~Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the worldWhy was Israel chosen? Because, saith the Lord, Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness with God, and God was not ashamed to call Abraham His friend.We know when Israel was chosen, we find it being in Genesis 10-12, during the current earth age, SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, NOT BEFORE.After Christ had risen He taught the apostles for 40 days, after having opened the eyes of their understanding.What did they ask of Him?Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Now is this some new kingdom, or the one they new from what the Lord taught them for centuries and centuries? you know, the one in the OT.
     
  16. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    the question is not a statement...it is questioning your train of thought this this a thread on WHO IS ISRAEL YOU BRING IN THE MYSTERY... EPO you are constantly trying to convince us God has let you in on a mystery that you must explain to us, because apparently you are the only one He has exposed this mytery to....Do you not see how you cannot follow a train of thought? How do you think only you have discovered a this mystery? agin for you: Paul explains the mystery in Ephesians 1:1-13 that you must understand in order to come to maturity in Yashua... but you cannot follow a simple train of thought, instead you must expect us to follow rabbit trails to a mystery only you can percieve. Can you see why this is failing? I can read and understand the Word of God, but so far no one here is abe to get one bit of understanding from your 1000's of words...they do not make sense.
     
  17. epouraniois

    epouraniois Guest

    Paul certainly was able to make the distinction. Peter knew it was unlawful for a man such as himself, a Jew, to come onto one such as Cornelius, a Gentile. James did not write to non Jews, and certainly the OT reveals that it is Israel, later collectively called Jews, is the called out nation awaiting THEIR New Covenant.If we do not know the difference, then this is a good thread to see who Israel is, Biblically, where the LORD has made His divisions. That was my thinking anyway. Sorry if I have offended you again. I won't bother this thread again.
    but so far no one here is abe to get one bit of understanding from you...
    At least now I know who has the authority to speak for everyone viewing this forum. Nevertheless, that's not what you said when you were complementing me on some of the studies. But, thanks for the information anyway.
     
  18. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Where Romans ends with a reference to the revelation to the "mystery", Ephesians takes that "revelation of a mystery", and reveals that mystery to us. The book of Ephesians has it's foundation in the first eight chapters of Romans. This "mystery", or "great secret" that Paul is to reveal, for this age or dispensation only, is called the "dispensation of Grace". The secret was that all "individual sinners amongst Jew and Greek alike, are called the "called out ones". Upon repentance, all these converts are formed into "the body of Christ", also referred to as "His Church". Once that sinner enters into the "body of Christ", they all become a member or part of that one body, for there is neither Jew nor Gentile in that body; but Christian. The purpose of Christ's Church exists to "praise the glory of God's grace throughout all eternity", to be the future rulers and priests in God's eternal kingdom. This is the secret kept from before the foundations of this earth age. This earth age is a preparation time for Christians to learn through God's word the will of God, and to get ourselves ready for service in His will or plan. We become prepared by what Paul calls, "putting on the whole armor of God".That "armor of God" is the only protection that the Christian that lives in this final generation of this earth age, can ever expect to stand against Satan, and resist taking the Antichrist's name, number and mark. If we accept any part of the Antichrist's system, or his deceptions, we are making ourselves useless to our Heavenly Father's service; for then we will have ceased allowing the Holy Spirit of God to speak through us; when we shall be "delivered up before the synagogues of Satan", as spoken of in Mark 13:11.
     
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