Who is John talking about.........

[Waiting on him]

this expectation of a future blood bath, war and sword.....Jesus will not even have sword of steel....the sword He carries is the Word that proceeds out of His mouth....and where do you get "this expectation of a future blood bath, war and sword?"

@VictoryinJesus: I appreciate you seeking to challenge me on things I present, however, we need to compare apples to apples....not oranges to watermelons concerning scripture.

If you have time to read through this I would like to know how you interpret this to mean. Thanks.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And the armies which were in heaven,.... Not the angels, though they are God's host, and are the armies of the heavens; they are in heaven, and dwell there, and follow Christ, attend upon him, and minister to him, and have been sometimes represented by horses and horsemen, 2 Kings 2:11 and they are pure and holy creatures, and will come with Christ to judgment: but this vision refers not to the day of judgment; and besides, the saints are meant, as appears by their habit, for the fine linen, white and clean, is the righteousness of the saints, Revelation 19:8 and the righteousness of angels and saints is not the same. Moreover, these are the same company described in Revelation 17:14. The saints are in a state of warfare, have many enemies to fight with, sin, Satan, and the world; they are enlisted as volunteers under Christ, the Captain of salvation; they are provided with the whole armour of God, and are very numerous, and always more than conquerors through Christ: these are described by the place where they were, "in heaven"; not being glorified saints in heaven; with these indeed Christ will come to judgment, even with all his saints with him; but members of the church militant, said to be in heaven, because that is often called the kingdom of heaven; and because their names are written in heaven, and they are of heavenly extract; they are born from above, and are partakers of the heavenly calling; they belong to heaven, they are citizens of it, and are pressing on to it. And these
followed him; Christ, their Leader and Commander in the exercise of grace, and in the discharge of duty; having gone on in his ways through a train of sufferings, and cleaved unto him, and now attend him; not to assist in fighting, but to add to the glorious and triumphant appearance of their General; and therefore are said to be upon white horses; they had served Christ in his Gospel, which some of them had preached, and all professed, and had maintained the purity of it in doctrine and practice, and now triumphed in Christ, and along with him, riding upon horses of the same colour with his, as being his princes and nobles, and whom he had made kings as well as priests; the former may be signified by their horses; see Judges 5:10 and the latter by their following habit, clothed in fine linen, white and clean; not the horses, but the armies on them; which designs not their inward purity, which was very glorious; nor their outward conversation garments, washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb; but the robe of Christ's righteousness, which is pure and spotless: these have no armour on, for they are not to strike a blow, only their General, who has the bloody garment on, is to tread the winepress, and destroy antichrist with the breath of his mouth, or with his sword proceeding out of it, as follows.

That’s an interesting perspective that Mr Gill has the part that’s confusing to me is Christ is covered in wine fat from treading a wine press.
Grapes are fruit from a vine.

 

[Waiting on him]

That’s an interesting perspective that Mr Gill has the part that’s confusing to me is Christ is covered in wine fat from treading a wine press.
Grapes are fruit from a vine.

Makes me think of His first miracle.

 

[Earburner]

During 1600s, the public view about the Pope had been using the word "antichrist" against the Pope and the RCC.
What better way for the Protestant movement, for pulling out of the RCC, then to persuade the reformation through scripture!
By the translators tweaking one word from "the" to "that", and capitalizing the "W" in wicked, it gave the Protestant Reformation wheels to move into their own form of religion, being independant of the RCC.

 

[Waiting on him]

Back to Isaiah 63,

Isaiah 63:2 KJV
[2] Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?


Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Isaiah 63:6 KJV
[6] And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

Lord God bring me down.
Tecarta Bible

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus: I appreciate you seeking to challenge me on things I present, however, we need to compare apples to apples....not oranges to watermelons concerning scripture

honestly, I’m not challenging you. Really, I don’t know why I’m responding to you as it is what others here have presented to me before in the past. About the blood bath. Even describing to me the war and blood and death. You do realize some here even now, that is their expectations? Also what I’ve heard my whole life, so in ways I’m challenging also what I’ve heard and comparing it which may be where oranges to watermelons come in. Maybe I responded to yours and @brakelite hoping you both can help with misdirected seeds planted over the years, for me and also others reading. It is not personal against you. But I’m only trying to see what those passages really say compared to what I’ve been told they say. Sometimes my questions may be idiotic but I still have them. Did read what you shared. Thank you. So when you said you can’t wait to return with Him to the battle, you have always envisioned that battle to be your speaking the word and not any physical combat of war as we see today? Sounds like evangelism to me? Why the coming of the saints with the Lord covered in blood and what they and He is doing is ...slaying His enemies with the Word? Romans 7:9-11 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

but when the commandment came,

when Saul/Paul says “but when the commandment came”. How did: the commandment come and what was ordained for life he found to be unto death? Did Saul not know the commandment very well so how “but when the commandment came” ?

 

[Waiting on him]

honestly, I’m not challenging you. Really, I don’t know why I’m responding to you as it is what others here have presented to me before in the past. About the blood bath. Even describing to me the war and blood and death. You do realize some here even now, that is their expectations? Also what I’ve heard my whole life, so in ways I’m challenging also what I’ve heard and comparing it which may be where oranges to watermelons come in. Maybe I responded to yours and @brakelite hoping you both can help with misdirected seeds planted over the years, for me and also others reading. It is not personal against you. But I’m only trying to see what those passages really say compared to what I’ve been told they say. Sometimes my questions may be idiotic but I still have them. Did read what you shared. Thank you. So when you said you can’t wait to return with Him to the battle, you have always envisioned that battle to be your speaking the word and not any physical combat of war as we see today? Sounds like evangelism to me? Why the coming of the saints with the Lord covered in blood and what they and He is doing is ...slaying His enemies with the Word? Romans 7:9-11 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

I won’t be there, the Lord only will be there.... those in white robes in my opinion will only be what was found in Christ after I am cleansed with His Holy fire. I personally don’t believe any part of me will survive.

 

[Earburner]

"Church-ianity" has built mountains of foolish and fictitious doctrines all around the erroneous words "that Wicked". So much so, that virtually every church organization is "looking for" a singular man, that they call "THE Anti Christ".

So then, while all of you are looking for a false belief, satan has effectively caused you take your eyes off Jesus, in looking for and hasting unto the Day of God, and Christ's SUDDEN appearance in flaming fire... 2 Thessalonians 1:8

2 Peter 3[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Isaiah 63:6 KJV
[6] And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

Lord God bring me down.
Tecarta Bible

powerful verse. (Imo) it is those who drink unworthy who are drunk in His fury...it is “their strength He brings down to the earth”. I don’t see anything ugliness as presented so often but mercy. In bringing it down.

“make them drunk in my fury” 1 Corinthians 11:20-21 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. [21] For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. —the one hungry is better off but the one “drunken” is in disobedience tending to emptiness in taking before other his own supper. —reminds me of what you and I were talking about yesterday where He said to mark them or “note” them and separate letting them eat in silence their own bread. Not a good thing to eat of your own bread in silence in He said “separate” and let them eat alone. BUT still mercy.


1 Corinthians 11:27-30 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. [30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

“I will bring down their strength to the earth”
Psalm 78:61 And delivered his strength into captivity, and his glory into the enemy's hand.
1 Corinthians 15:56-57 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. [57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[brakelite]

During 1600s, the public view about the Pope had been using the word "antichrist" against the Pope and the RCC.
What better way for the Protestant movement, for pulling out of the RCC, then to persuade the reformation through scripture!
By the translators tweaking one word from "the" to "that", and capitalizing the "W" in wicked, it gave the Protestant Reformation wheels to move into their own form of religion, being independant of the RCC.

Some of the reformers did not believe any one individual Pope was the Antichrist,, although the vast majority of reformers identifed the papal system or its Pope as Antichrist. However some to the following view...as a succession of leaders of the Antichrist system.
The Antichrist is revealed to us through scripture in several different ways. In Daniel 2 he is the mixture of iron and clay. In Daniel 7 he is the little horn. In 2 Thess the man of sin and son of perdition, and in Revelation 13 the first beast.
I have mentioned before that Nebuchadnezzar was the representative of the entire empire, so also with the ‘man of sin’. Below is an excerpt from a sermon by the renowned preacher and writer Puritan Thomas Manton in the 17th century. Charles Spurgeon testified to Mantons works as being “a mighty mountain of sound theology”

But because he is called the man of sin, here it cometh fitly to be inquired whether Antichrist be an individual person? for ‘that man of sin’ would seem to be some single person. No; he is put for a society and succession of men, that make up the head of the apostate state. As one lion figured the whole kingdom of the Babylonians, and one bear the kingdom of the Medes and Persians, and one leopard the kingdom of the Grecians, Dan. 7, — and there the fourth beast is the fourth kingdom, — so one person that succession of men that head the revolters from Christ. So Dan. 8, a goat figured a succession of kings; so the Assyrian, Isa. 10:5, several kings in that empire; so Isa. 14:9, the king of Babylon, meaning not one but many. So this man of sin doth not note a single man, but a succession of men, a body politic or corporate, under one opposite head to the kingdom of Christ: so the ‘man of God’ is put for all faithful ministers, 2 Tim. 3:17; so ‘honour the king,’ I Peter 2:17, series regum. So o arciereus, Heb. 9:25, ‘The high priest every year entereth into the holy place;’ meaning not one, but the succession of the order; and in reason it must needs be so here. Because Antichrist, from his beginning to his end, from his rise and revelation, till his ruin and destruction, will take up such a long track of time, as cannot fall within the age of any one man, even from the time of the apostles till the end of the world. Antichrist is the head of the apostasy; for here the apostasy and the revelation of the man of sin are tied together; now the mysterious apostasy could not be perfected in a short time.

In this sermon, Manton, like many reformers before him, was applying the prophecy of 2 Thess. concerning the man of sin directly to the papal system.

 

[Heart2Soul]

honestly, I’m not challenging you. Really, I don’t know why I’m responding to you as it is what others here have presented to me before in the past. About the blood bath. Even describing to me the war and blood and death. You do realize some here even now, that is their expectations? Also what I’ve heard my whole life, so in ways I’m challenging also what I’ve heard and comparing it which may be where oranges to watermelons come in. Maybe I responded to yours and @brakelite hoping you both can help with misdirected seeds planted over the years, for me and also others reading. It is not personal against you. But I’m only trying to see what those passages really say compared to what I’ve been told they say. Sometimes my questions may be idiotic but I still have them. Did read what you shared. Thank you. So when you said you can’t wait to return with Him to the battle, you have always envisioned that battle to be your speaking the word and not any physical combat of war as we see today? Sounds like evangelism to me? Why the coming of the saints with the Lord covered in blood and what they and He is doing is ...slaying His enemies with the Word? Romans 7:9-11 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Yes, the sword is the Word that proceeds from His mouth and we will witness the destruction of Satan and his army.
As to the spiritual battle we fight daily using the Armor of God, i have my shield of faith (to quench the fiery darts of the wicked one)....and my Sword of Truth (which is the Word of God)...so my fight against Satan is strictly spiritual and not physical.
To explain myself when I say I can't wait to return with Christ to battle the enemy what I mean by this is once he is defeated we will no longer have an enemy attacking us anymore and there will be perfect peace, no more sorrow or sickness, no deaths...just pure joy and love.

 

[brakelite]

I’m sorry I’m getting confused at what every one believes. you don’t think God is returning with an army following after Him to slay all His enemies with carnal weapons? if our foes are not of this world then neither are His.

I tend to agree with @Giuliano , that it is more the presence as a consuming fire that destroys the wicked when Christ comes... But there are literal plagues and Peter imo was not speaking metaphorically when speaking of the elements melting with fervent heat and the heavens being rolled back as a scroll... Personally, I don't think any of us at that time will be in any state of mind to either be contemplating how things are taking place nor care who was right or wrong... We'll be too busy praying and thanking God for His deliverance and protection.

 

[Waiting on him]

powerful verse. (Imo) it is those who drink unworthy who are drunk in His fury...it is “their strength He brings down to the earth”. I don’t see anything ugliness as presented so often but mercy. In bringing it down.

This in my opinion is the purpose of the sword, for the pulling down of strong holds and vain imagination. Anything that exalts it’s self above God.

The rod of correction is not wielded in my hand at foes. It’s in His hand separating What’s His from my flesh.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes, the sword is the Word that proceeds from His mouth and we will witness the destruction of Satan and his army.
As to the spiritual battle we fight daily using the Armor of God, i have my shield of faith (to quench the fiery darts of the wicked one)....and my Sword of Truth (which is the Word of God)...so my fight against Satan is strictly spiritual and not physical.
To explain myself when I say I can't wait to return with Christ to battle the enemy what I mean by this is once he is defeated we will no longer have an enemy attacking us anymore and there will be perfect peace, no more sorrow or sickness, no deaths...just pure joy and love.

This in my opinion is when Christ has separated what’s His from your flesh, the only enemy.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As to the spiritual battle we fight daily using the Armor of God, i have my shield of faith (to quench the fiery darts of the wicked one)....and my Sword of Truth (which is the Word of God)...so my fight against Satan is strictly spiritual and not physical.

You have been plucked out of the fire and have put on the Armor of God! Zechariah 3:2-4 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

 

[Heart2Soul]

This in my opinion is when Christ has separated what’s His from your flesh, the only enemy.

That's interesting, what brought you to this understanding?

 

[Waiting on him]

I tend to agree with @Giuliano , that it is more the presence as a consuming fire that destroys the wicked when Christ comes... But there are literal plagues and Peter imo was not speaking metaphorically when speaking of the elements melting with fervent heat and the heavens being rolled back as a scroll... Personally, I don't think any of us at that time will be in any state of mind to either be contemplating how things are taking place nor care who was right or wrong... We'll be too busy praying and thanking God for His deliverance and protection.

I was that wicked, prior to His coming.

 

[Waiting on him]

You have been plucked out of the fire and have put on the Armor of God! Zechariah 3:2-4 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

She’s been plucked from the fire and given the seal of God.

 

[Waiting on him]

That's interesting, what brought you to this understanding?

Flesh doesn’t enter.