Who is John talking about.........

[brakelite]

I was that wicked, prior to His coming.

Mmm , as we all were, and now looking forward to His appearing to free this world permanently of that wicked.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Flesh doesn’t enter.

Not sure of what you mean here.

 

[Waiting on him]

2 John 1:7 KJV
[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

This is whom Christ, (not John) is speaking too.
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[VictoryinJesus]

that it is more the presence as a consuming fire that destroys the wicked when Christ comes... But there are literal plagues

what if they are the same? “A consuming fire that destroys the wicked when Christ comes” what is “the wicked” if not sin in the flesh. Speaking of fire which consumes destroys the wicked but Lamentations 3:22
[22] It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

”though our outward man perish” ... you said “but there are literal plagues” yes, on that which perishes and is destroyed. YET the inward man is renewed day by day.
Psalm 28:5 Because they regard not the works of the Lord, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up.

even “our outward man perish” and that outward man perish (is destroyed) ...but the inward man is renewed day by day “build up” (countless verses on this building up) in the only foundation that is laid which is Christ. Not sure how you don’t see literal plagues not fitting with “consumed” yet “behold, we live.” going back to the armour:
2 Corinthians 6:7-10 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

can tell you from experience those plagues on that which is outward and perishes ...feels like fire and trial of faith, but still there is Hope in ”as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed“

2 Corinthians 1:9-10 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: [10] Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us

 

[Earburner]

Some of the reformers did not believe any one individual Pope was the Antichrist,, although the vast majority of reformers identifed the papal system or its Pope as Antichrist. However some to the following view...as a succession of leaders of the Antichrist system.
The Antichrist is revealed to us through scripture in several different ways. In Daniel 2 he is the mixture of iron and clay. In Daniel 7 he is the little horn. In 2 Thess the man of sin and son of perdition, and in Revelation 13 the first beast.
I have mentioned before that Nebuchadnezzar was the representative of the entire empire, so also with the ‘man of sin’. Below is an excerpt from a sermon by the renowned preacher and writer Puritan Thomas Manton in the 17th century. Charles Spurgeon testified to Mantons works as being “a mighty mountain of sound theology”

But because he is called the man of sin, here it cometh fitly to be inquired whether Antichrist be an individual person? for ‘that man of sin’ would seem to be some single person. No; he is put for a society and succession of men, that make up the head of the apostate state. As one lion figured the whole kingdom of the Babylonians, and one bear the kingdom of the Medes and Persians, and one leopard the kingdom of the Grecians, Dan. 7, — and there the fourth beast is the fourth kingdom, — so one person that succession of men that head the revolters from Christ. So Dan. 8, a goat figured a succession of kings; so the Assyrian, Isa. 10:5, several kings in that empire; so Isa. 14:9, the king of Babylon, meaning not one but many. So this man of sin doth not note a single man, but a succession of men, a body politic or corporate, under one opposite head to the kingdom of Christ: so the ‘man of God’ is put for all faithful ministers, 2 Tim. 3:17; so ‘honour the king,’ I Peter 2:17, series regum. So o arciereus, Heb. 9:25, ‘The high priest every year entereth into the holy place;’ meaning not one, but the succession of the order; and in reason it must needs be so here. Because Antichrist, from his beginning to his end, from his rise and revelation, till his ruin and destruction, will take up such a long track of time, as cannot fall within the age of any one man, even from the time of the apostles till the end of the world. Antichrist is the head of the apostasy; for here the apostasy and the revelation of the man of sin are tied together; now the mysterious apostasy could not be perfected in a short time.

In this sermon, Manton, like many reformers before him, was applying the prophecy of 2 Thess. concerning the man of sin directly to the papal system.

Every time that you use the words "THE" Anti Christ, you trip yourself up, head over heels into the fabrications and false interpretations of "Church-ianity", who vainly have tried to force fit scripture to support their idea of a singular man.
The context of 2 Thes. 2 IS IN THE PLURAL, not the singular!!

 

[Waiting on him]

what if they are the same? “A consuming fire that destroys the wicked when Christ comes” what is “the wicked” if not sin in the flesh. Speaking of fire which consumes destroys the wicked but Lamentations 3:22
[22] It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

”though our outward man perish” ... you said “but there are literal plagues” yes, on that which perishes and is destroyed. YET the inward man is renewed day by day.
Psalm 28:5 Because they regard not the works of the Lord, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up.

even “our outward man perish” and that outward man perish (is destroyed) ...but the inward man is renewed day by day “build up” (countless verses on this building up) in the only foundation that is laid which is Christ. Not sure how you don’t see literal plagues not fitting with “consumed” yet “behold, we live.” going back to the armour:
2 Corinthians 6:7-10 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

can tell you from experience those plagues on that which is outward and perishes ...feels like fire and trial of faith, but still there is Hope in ”as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed“

2 Corinthians 1:9-10 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: [10] Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us

This is what happens when Gods Spirit is poured on flesh.... it dissolves under fervent heat. It just melts away

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ah well the imolications of pick up your cross suggests that it might, yeh

agree. One struggle I still have with something you say often. Is He abides alone in the Light. Struggle greatly there so not saying I’m right but even your quote above brings His alone up in “pick up your cross” suggest otherwise. As does your no longer of darkness but of light? Another would be: John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

He did die and went in the ground that others may have Life...does He abide alone or brings forth much fruit? important to the topic in “pick up your cross” is not abides alone...but bears fruit. Hebrews 13:13-14.

 

[bbyrd009]

@bbyrd009.....I have been warring against Satan and his demons for a long time now....
First and foremost.....I pray. I ask the Holy Spirit for discernment, I ask my Father for His Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding in the situation....I put on the Armor of God....as you see in my avatar....this is my daily routine.
Let's discuss for a minute what do you do in a situation where there is an attack coming against your health, your finances, your faith, your relationships and your whole life is about to become desperate for His intervention. Do you call out to God for help, seek scripture that you can stand on, seek Godly counsel? You like picking on how I handle them....how do you?

well wadr you kinda sidestepped the q? Now youre talking about today, and not some imagined tomorrow. Anyway bam fight, if you feel led to fight, none of my business. My solution for those prolly wouldnt help much i guess, im not being attacked anywhere i can think of? Or it seems sitting here anyway that ive just got a diff perception now of stuff like that maybe, being almost 60? I guess i did feel that way more when i was 30, and still trying to "make my way in the world," but my solution was to leave it, and stop trying, which may not work for you i guess. Sure improved my health though, actually all of those i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, that's a good point. I don't necessarily believe that God himself requires sacrifice, especially human sacrifice, but the Law demanded blood.
We were all in bondage under the Law, convicting us of guilt. Christ fulfilled the Law to the letter, thus, was able to be the final sacrifice in order to end the Law. It was the ending of the Law which removed the condemnation. Not so much Christ's death as a penalty, but his perfected life allowed him to remove the enmity between God and man. The Law had to be fulfilled, for everything that God institutes will not fall by the wayside, and Christ did this by his uncompromised love for God and obedience.

i know that is what we are taught, but um dont you have a set of laws right now that you are beholden to? Can you Quote this "end the law" anywhere, for instance? Bc im pretty sure the law has not ended at all, so let's start there. "Remove the enmity between God and man" who told you that you were naked so i would want a Quote there too i guess. "The law had to be fulfilled" if i Quoted where Jesus broke every single one of the Ten Commandments at some point, i dont know if this pov would persist or not, but right here i might ask who needed "the law" to be fulfilled, iyo?

 

[DNB]

i know that is what we are taught, but um dont you have a set of laws right now that you are beholden to? Can you Quote this "end the law" anywhere, for instance? Bc im pretty sure the law has not ended at all, so let's start there. "Remove the enmity between God and man" who told you that you were naked so i would want a Quote there too i guess. "The law had to be fulfilled" if i Quoted where Jesus broke every single one of the Ten Commandments at some point, i dont know if this pov would persist or not, but right here i might ask who needed "the law" to be fulfilled, iyo?

Yes, but I can break those laws and still be saved. I can't look at a woman in an inappropriate manner, lie, steal, and even murder as Paul did, but if I repent, salvation is at hand. In the Old Law, i would be stoned to death for certain transgressions, this does not apply now.
I DO NOT WANT A REBUKE FOR SAYING A CHRISTIAN CAN SIN, I am not saying that, it is just that the Law, in and of itself, will not condemn me, ...although my acts may put into question my faith. You shouldn't need a quote to prove that the Law has ended in Christ, nor that I am condemned prior to its abrogation, but anyhow; Romans 3:19-26, not to mention that there are countless more.

You said that 'Jesus Christ broke every single one of the 10 commandments'?
The Sabbath, and possibly dietary, I get, but none of the other ones, especially #1 Thou shalt have no other gods before me?
Ok, now I need a quote from you?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Some of the reformers did not believe any one individual Pope was the Antichrist,, although the vast majority of reformers identifed the papal system or its Pope as Antichrist. However some to the following view...as a succession of leaders of the Antichrist system.
The Antichrist is revealed to us through scripture in several different ways. In Daniel 2 he is the mixture of iron and clay. In Daniel 7 he is the little horn. In 2 Thess the man of sin and son of perdition, and in Revelation 13 the first beast.
I have mentioned before that Nebuchadnezzar was the representative of the entire empire, so also with the ‘man of sin’. Below is an excerpt from a sermon by the renowned preacher and writer Puritan Thomas Manton in the 17th century. Charles Spurgeon testified to Mantons works as being “a mighty mountain of sound theology”

But because he is called the man of sin, here it cometh fitly to be inquired whether Antichrist be an individual person? for ‘that man of sin’ would seem to be some single person. No; he is put for a society and succession of men, that make up the head of the apostate state. As one lion figured the whole kingdom of the Babylonians, and one bear the kingdom of the Medes and Persians, and one leopard the kingdom of the Grecians, Dan. 7, — and there the fourth beast is the fourth kingdom, — so one person that succession of men that head the revolters from Christ. So Dan. 8, a goat figured a succession of kings; so the Assyrian, Isa. 10:5, several kings in that empire; so Isa. 14:9, the king of Babylon, meaning not one but many. So this man of sin doth not note a single man, but a succession of men, a body politic or corporate, under one opposite head to the kingdom of Christ: so the ‘man of God’ is put for all faithful ministers, 2 Tim. 3:17; so ‘honour the king,’ I Peter 2:17, series regum. So o arciereus, Heb. 9:25, ‘The high priest every year entereth into the holy place;’ meaning not one, but the succession of the order; and in reason it must needs be so here. Because Antichrist, from his beginning to his end, from his rise and revelation, till his ruin and destruction, will take up such a long track of time, as cannot fall within the age of any one man, even from the time of the apostles till the end of the world. Antichrist is the head of the apostasy; for here the apostasy and the revelation of the man of sin are tied together; now the mysterious apostasy could not be perfected in a short time.

In this sermon, Manton, like many reformers before him, was applying the prophecy of 2 Thess. concerning the man of sin directly to the papal system.

Speaking of consuming Daniel 2:35
[35] Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
He said John 14:3-5 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. [4] And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. [5] Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

It is of His mercies any are not consumed “that no place was found for them” all would be consumed if not for John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (That have no place as His having no place in the “inn” or when coming to Jerusalem and He wept.)

Revelation 20:10-11 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Woe to the earth “there was found no place for them” but He prepared a place for even we do not call it evil when the first passed away (the natural man) for the birth of Last Which is Spirit.
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Psalm 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

As does your no longer of darkness but of light?

if i get you i would be applying why do you call Me good? there, to um Jesus anyway, and accepting that (i) am completely, thoroughly "of the darkness," at least in some pious persons opinion, right? If you then, being evil is a description of me, right?

i know this prolly sounds strange lol, and youll have to take my word that i dont set out to intentionally be evil, and seek to avoid harming others and all that, but see regardless of all that every time i take a step someone is there with a critique or whatever, right, anything you do someone is going to complain about, idc if its feeding the homeless or saving puppies, someone is gonna be upset and complaining yeh.

A point being that sin may really be more like a lack of mercy, or the application of some law and judgement, a certain perspective iow, more than an actual sin maybe.

"Sin" requires that someone invoke a Law that was broken, is that correct? Is there any sin if a law is broken and no one points it out, v if someone points it out? These are trick questions, yeh?

 

[Heart2Soul]

well wadr you kinda sidestepped the q? Now youre talking about today, and not some imagined tomorrow. Anyway bam fight, if you feel led to fight, none of my business. My solution for those prolly wouldnt help much i guess, im not being attacked anywhere i can think of? Or it seems sitting here anyway that ive just got a diff perception now of stuff like that maybe, being almost 60? I guess i did feel that way more when i was 30, and still trying to "make my way in the world," but my solution was to leave it, and stop trying, which may not work for you i guess. Sure improved my health though, actually all of those i guess.

I answered it...you asked how do I see that manifesting...what "that" is I presumed was to refer to how I fight spiritual battles...but whether it is today or in the future it is important that I am a skilled warrior ready for battle....how do we become skilled? By being doers of His Word.
So you continuously stay on the offensive to keep me on the defense of my beliefs? This is a never-ending debate....
You didn't answer my questions either....well maybe you did....you said you just quit trying....but how are you becoming skilled in spiritual warfare?
That is a very laid back position you take...I am 60 as well...but let me ask this...does the Bible say to put on our armor daily? That the enemy is seeking daily whom he may devour? That our war is not carnal but spiritual..and the weapons of warfare are not carnal but spiritual?
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
— Ephesians 6:12 (KJV)
Why does scripture teach us to take up our cross daily? Why does it teach us to rejoice in our trials and tribulations for it is the perfecting of our faith?
How do you reconcile where it tells us to "fight" the good fight of faith?
Does the Word of God have any power? It is a two-edged sword.
Jesus was tempted of Satan twice....in the wilderness during His fast....and in the Garden of Gethsemene when He was about to be arrested.

Anyway, not attacking you, I just want to offer you these points to consider about battles with satan and his demons....as far as being at Jesus side when He fights the battle against Satan well that is how I see it in scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, but I can break those laws and still be saved.

well, according to your def of "saved" maybe, but prolly not according to be perfect as I am perfect.

I can't look at a woman in an inappropriate manner, lie, steal, and even murder as Paul did, but if I repent, salvation is at hand.

so iow you can do those things, basically, and just repent of them later right.

In the Old Law, i would be stoned to death for certain transgressions, this does not apply now.

? sure it does, we have capital punishment? At least in US, you might not

You said that 'Jesus Christ broke every single one of the 10 commandments'?

well i dunno, prolly to someone's perception He did, ive never actually tried to document that, but a point is that He obv committed no sin yet just as obviously royally pissed off some authorities right

 

[bbyrd009]

how are you becoming skilled in spiritual warfare?

um, mostly by not fighting i guess

 

[Heart2Soul]

um, mostly by not fighting i guess

okay thanks for your reply.

 

[bbyrd009]

but let me ask this...does the Bible say to put on our armor daily?

armor is implied for defense?

Why does scripture teach us to take up our cross daily?

exactly imo, why is it implied as a weapon instead of as a yielding, i mean who you gonna be beating up or going to war against using that cross as a weapon? See the dichotomy?

 

[Heart2Soul]

armor is implied for defense?

exactly imo, why is it implied as a weapon instead of as a yielding, i mean who you gonna be beating up or going to war against using that cross as a weapon? See the dichotomy?

think spiritual....not carnal.....I do not literally pick up a cross and carry it around.

 

[bbyrd009]

the point is that spiritual or literal, the cross is not a weapon, but a defense

How do you reconcile where it tells us to "fight" the good fight of faith?

i suggest that, like Paul's "race," a dialectic statement is being made using opposites and contrast, lemme think of a contemporary statement that might be an analogue, but it will come across as prolly like sarcasm or irony or something ok; written so as to be opaque to those who think they know everything iow, somewhat tic maybe

 

[Waiting on him]

I answered it...you asked how do I see that manifesting...what "that" is I presumed was to refer to how I fight spiritual battles...but whether it is today or in the future it is important that I am a skilled warrior ready for battle....how do we become skilled? By being doers of His Word.
So you continuously stay on the offensive to keep me on the defense of my beliefs? This is a never-ending debate....
You didn't answer my questions either....well maybe you did....you said you just quit trying....but how are you becoming skilled in spiritual warfare?
That is a very laid back position you take...I am 60 as well...but let me ask this...does the Bible say to put on our armor daily? That the enemy is seeking daily whom he may devour? That our war is not carnal but spiritual..and the weapons of warfare are not carnal but spiritual?
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
— Ephesians 6:12 (KJV)
Why does scripture teach us to take up our cross daily? Why does it teach us to rejoice in our trials and tribulations for it is the perfecting of our faith?
How do you reconcile where it tells us to "fight" the good fight of faith?
Does the Word of God have any power? It is a two-edged sword.
Jesus was tempted of Satan twice....in the wilderness during His fast....and in the Garden of Gethsemene when He was about to be arrested.

Anyway, not attacking you, I just want to offer you these points to consider about battles with satan and his demons....as far as being at Jesus side when He fights the battle against Satan well that is how I see it in scripture.

James 1:14-16 KJV
[14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. [16] Do not err, my beloved brethren.


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