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Featured Who is John talking about.........

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Willie T, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    ….. and why does he use this 666 "code?"

    Revelation 13:18 King James Version (KJV)

    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
     
  2. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Well we know he is talking about the Antichrist. Now, who is this person? Short answer we do not know. Some argue it is Nero. Of course, this depends some on your view of end times as well as when the book of Revelation was written. Others have claimed it was various Popes but I don't see this as a valid view. I believe we do not yet know the identity of this man.

    As far as the number, again, lots of speculation here. It could be a form of gematria (numbers for letters) or it could just be symbolism. Or the number could actually mean that number and the man comes as number 666 in a line. The short of it is this, we don't really know. It is hard to say.
     
  3. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    That is almost the identical answer I would have given — (minus the "Antichrist" stuff. LOL)
     
  4. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know but Niro was antichrist as it gets. there are legends that he would hang them on posts on his porch and light them on fire like lamps for light when he had guests. its very posable that by now much of what was written in Revelations has already come to pass. the church then was suffering great prosecution until the establishment of what is now the catholic church in I do believe 325 or 7. so if you were alive when the book was written, and was a believer, the "antichrist" being alive a that time would be a real thing. besides, speaking in terms or words that can't be held against you, might just be the reason why things like "666" or multi-headed dragons are used. (a lingo not understood by the authorities at the time) scriptural dragons are usually allies with more then one king involved, hence heads and crowns. and those who would understand such would be those familiar with the OT profits and what is meant by this that or the other..
     
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  5. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Dan 7:4 gives us a prophecy...
    [4] The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

    Other Scripture reveals Lucifer, a created Holy Angelic spirit, (angel), who stood Against God, and was cast down to Earth.
    He is still here.

    Other Scripture reveals Angels have the POWER to APPEAR to mans eyes, AS...
    Things men Recognize...other men and animals.

    Other Scripture reveals Angels "against" God have, occupied the Earth ...Before mankind was created and continue to Occupy the Earth since mankinds creation.

    Human men have obtained "GREAT" "MASSIVE" "EPIC"....Governing Power over human men and lands., through Wars, Wealth, Entitlements, Bloodlines, Conniving, Deceit, Trickery, Honesty, etc. etc.

    Daniel 7:4 reveals...and other Scriptures verify;

    The matter IS:
    Mankind's habitat is Earth.
    Earth has become the habitat of corrupt Angels/spirits, with great power.
    Angels are spirits and unseen by mankind.
    Governing Power of men Over men exists.
    Angels have the power to Appear as men.
    A Human will be put in place of a World Governing Position.
    The Human will be proclaimed Mortally Dead.
    A Corrupt Angel will take on the APPPEARENCE of that same mortally dead Human, and proclaim Himself God.

    The Number of man, 666, is the reference to the Beast (Big corrupt Governing World Power)...that human men will SEE (a Corrupt Angel)... "as a human man".

    As well we know, Satan, the Fallen Angel and most powerful Angel, currently has his habitat upon the earth, and that he, MIMICS God in cunning ways to fool people at large, who Do NOT know the Truth.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
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  6. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I believe it is talking about Nicolae Carpathia right?? :D
     
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  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Willie T here's something to chew on, might as well throw in my two cent worth to the discussion. but don’t hold me to this. I look at this some years ago, and this is my understanding, not a revelation, ok. so don't hold me to this, but something to think about.

    Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    Revelation 13:12 "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

    now this,

    Revelation 13:16 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    Revelation 13:17 "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Revelation 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    The beast out of the Ground is not human, the two horns represent power. And this power causes people not to buy without the mark, which is a progressive steps in this power. John said, he who has “Understanding” COUNT the number of the beast. So my understanding, (as said, don’t hold me to this), is the number of the computer., the number of the beast.

    this is an inanimate object that appears live, or is a functional object. my opinion a computer system, the mainframe. the reason why I say this is because it has two horns. and horns represent power. when the first computers, the mainframe, was for large entities, like Governments, which require greater computing power. and businesses, mini computers, with lesser computing power. and there also came the private, or Micro Computer, with less computer power for the home. well that's three horns or powers. Micro, Mini, and mainframe.

    here's the revelation, technology boosted the private, or Micro Computer, with less computer power for the home, to greater power and eliminated the mini computers, for now the home user have the same equivalent power as most businesses... in the "Palm" of their hand. get it power in the hand? so now there are literally two power of computers. the Micro, and the mainframe. at one point in the development of the computer systems, one could not buy or sell if the computers was down. for if the computer is down one could not make a transaction, buy or sell. and the mark is in the palm of one's "Hand". so my take of understanding for right now is the Computer System.


    the term "COMPUTER", each letter associated with the alphabet and a corresponding number multiplied by man number 6 this is my understand, (so again don’t hold me to this).

    A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9 J=10 K= 11 L=12 M=13 N=14 O=15 P=16 Q=17 R=8 S=19 T=20 U=21 V=23 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26


    the tabulation, or as John said the "COUNT",

    C =3 X 6 =18
    O=15 X 6 = 90
    M=13 X 6 =78
    P=16 X 6 =96
    U=21 X 6 =126
    T=20 X6 =120
    E=5 X6 =30
    R=18 X 6 =108
    Total 666

    (again don't hold me to this, just my understanding). but something to chew on.

    PICJAG.
     
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  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Why would you say this when the Bible is perfectly clear that the number 666 is indeed the number of the Antichrist (a man who is totally under the control of Satan)? While he is called "the Beast" in Revelation 13, he has many other names and titles. It would appear that every person on earth will be branded with a number, and 666 will be an integral part of that number.

    Why are so many Christians confused about the Antichrist, since we know that God will (a) send strong delusion upon the earth to allow the Antichrist to deceive the world and (b) God will give him 3 1/2 years (42 months) to have total and complete control of the inhabitants of the world.

    The pope was never the Antichrist, nor will he be in the future. The Antichrist must be a renegade Jew who claims to be the true Jewish Messiah and fools the Orthodox Jews into believing this through his dazzlings signs, miracles, and lying wonders. He must also have full access to the future temple in Jerusalem, so that he can hijack it for himself and for the Abomination of Desolation. He will then sit in that temple and claim that he is God.

    2 THESSALONIANS 2
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that Man of Sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition;
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth
    [restrains] that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the Mystery of Iniquity doth already work: only He who now letteth
    will let [restrains will restrain], until he be taken out of the way.
    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    9
    Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
     
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  9. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    You ask who is John referring to and I ask "what is he referring to"........i.e. the NUMBER of the beast....the NUMBER of a man....these both indicate it isn't a who but a what as in what is it referring to......IMHO.
    In my study on the number I found it in 1 Kings 10:14 14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold (666).....Solomon's wealth corrupted him....could it be a monetary system?
    Revelation 13:16-18
    And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. (no one can buy or sell without the mark....again it relates to money).
    1 Timothy 6:9-10
    9Those who want to be rich, however, fall into temptation and become ensnared by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. By craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows........(the love of money corrupts and controls mankind in evil ways).

    But it is very much linked to the antichrist.....so as for myself I believe the number is representing money...a monetary system. The number of his name....the name of Nero Caesar adding up to 666 in Hebrew cannot apply here in Revelation since it is written in Greek....can it?
    I found this to be a good read about the number of the beast.....
    Why Is the Number of the Beast 666?
    Assessing the Options
    The problem is that no clear identification can be made linking 666 with any particular ancient historical name. Attempts have been made to alter spellings and incorporate titles to try to make a multitude of names fit, but nothing conclusive has emerged. Most commonly, the number has been identified with Nero, on the basis of a Hebrew transliteration of the title “Nero Caesar.” However, this option flounders on confusion concerning the exact Hebrew spelling of Caesar, and does not fit the fact that John’s readers were largely Greek-speaking, and that Nero had many titles other than Caesar. Additionally, if John were using gematria, he would have alerted his readers by saying something like, “the number in Hebrew (or Greek) is . . .” as he uses the phrases “in Hebrew” or “in Greek” in 9:11 and 16:16, when he wants to draw the readers’ attention to certain significance.

    Unsuccessful attempts have been made to identify the number with other Roman emperors, or combinations of emperors. (More than 100 names were proposed in Britain between 1560 and 1830.) Last century the names of Kaiser and Hitler, among others, have also been calculated to equal 666. All attempts to identify the number with the literal calculation of some individual’s name encounter difficulty because of the metaphorical manner in which language and numbers are used in the book. None of the many proposed solutions using the literal gematria form of calculation is ultimately satisfactory because there are so many names, ancient and modern, which could equal the number. The reason for so many proposals, as one commentator says, is that it is easy to turn a name into a number, but complicated to deduce the right name from a number.
     
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  10. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    Very interesting. Thank you.
     
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  11. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Your welcome:)
     
  12. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    So, what I am hearing is that John used that 666 "code", so that people could apply it to most anything evil they looked at? I had previously heard that he used a code so that Nero wouldn't know he was talking about him.
     
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  13. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Well, one counted 667, right; right now my theory is “gut, heart, mind”

    And I guess to hide wisdom from the wise?
     
  14. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    For me I would say Nero and I think St. John used the number so the Romans would not understand but the churches would.
     
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  15. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    I always wondered why John would be concerned about Nero who had supposedly been dead for nearly 30 years, and many people were already writing bad things about him and his reign........ unless Revelation was actually written before Nero killed himself in disgrace in AD 68.
     
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  16. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    This, of course, assumes that John was talking about Nero at all. I don't believe he was.
     
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  17. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    I don't think he was either, but the "Nero" reason is something I have heard for years.
     
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  18. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    The way I understand it is anti christ doesn’t necessarily mean against Christ the word means pseudo Christ or like Christ.
     
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  19. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Antichrist is many not just one.
     
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  20. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    I think that is "spot on!"
     
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