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Who is more dangerous? Islam, or Catholicism?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by brakelite, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's hard to parse ambiguities. -- Was it literal, spiritual, allegorical, etc., but History provides confirmation. Thus my previous statement:

    Post #165
    ... the point was that you or I should discuss that which has been historically fulfilled, -- the sequence of world empires, and events and participants in those empires:

    Deut. 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.

    We certainly can follow your current train of thought for which as provided previously, -- even that aspect has an historical fulfillment which can substantiate any "literal, spiritual, allegorical, etc." premise:

    Post #178
    ... understanding this passage is BEST achieved if using the 11:4 fulfillment. But that prospect is made more difficult by the "commentators" who defied the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9, and ascribed "fulfillments" to 200BC instead of the era approximate to the 1900's.

    Thanks,
    Bobby Jo
     
  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    @ Booby Jo, yes I agree that history may confirm the manifestations of the beasts influence.

    Both Daniel_8:8 and 11:4 are speaking of the same historical event. The rise in power of Alexandra the Greats Empire and the demise of Alexandra the Great and the subsequent breaking up of his empire between his four generals.

    Daniel_ 8:8: - Then the he-goat magnified himself exceedingly; but when he was strong, the great horn was broken, and instead of it there came up four conspicuous horns toward the four winds of heaven.

    Daniel_ 11:4: - And when he has arisen, his kingdom shall be broken and divided toward the four winds of heaven, but not to his posterity, nor according to the dominion with which he ruled; for his kingdom shall be plucked up and go to others besides these.

    In both of these accounts, they speak of the division of the empire is "towards the four winds of heaven."

    The question that we have to answer is what is the implication of the mentioned four winds of heaven, in the above two verses,that were also present in Daniel 7:2, as to who or what the four winds of heaven represent. This needs to be understood before we can confirm the fulfilment of the prophetical verses from history as you are suggesting. Yes we can see the historical confirmation in a worldly sense, but does that mean we see the historical confirmation in the Spiritual sense.

    If the Beasts are wicked fallen heavenly hosts/angels/winds of heaven, then will we see them in our world except in a manifested form, which can jump from people groups to people groups, nations/empires to nations/empires at different intervals in the time spectrum.

    We know that what happens in heaven is mirrored here on the earth. What did Daniel see in his vision? Was His vision in the heavenly or earthly realm?

    This is the dilemma of the question we are trying to answer. If the questions are answered too quickly, then we end up doing down the rabbit holes of the Witnesses.

    That will not help us discover the truth of the matter.

    Shalom
     
  3. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    I think you might want to reconsider BOTH of your assignments. But let me ask, -- did you want to obey the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9 where the words of the book are shut up and sealed until we see people running to and fro at some 60 to 600 miles per hour, and when we have instant information at our LITERAL finger tips? Or did you want to ignore that criteria?

    Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
    9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

    Bobby Jo
     
  4. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Booby go play your games with someone else. You are not interested in having a meaningful discussion. All you want to do is push your agenda, which sounds very much like the Witnesses teaching. They sadly have a very wrong understanding and by your criteria, have not adhered to your above teaching.

    Bye bye for now.
     
  5. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    What's a matter? Are you afraid to delve into what Scripture says? Are you more comfortable disregarding the specifics so that you can jump to your conclusions? Is your doctrine threatened? Is it really more important to you than Scripture?

    Go join the other little girls who run and hide behind an apron. Maybe you'll be comforted with their company.

    Whew,
    Bobby Jo


    To All,

    @Jay Ross cannot get to where he wants to go by following Scripture. Take his Daniel 8 citation where he must FIRST transcend the TWO kings (plural) of Media and Persia. The Romans had a dual monarchy:

    46 - 31 BC -- both Julius Caesar Octavianus Augustus or Octavian and Marcus Antonius (Marc Antony)

    ... but Cyrus NEVER had a dual monarchy:

    539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
    530 - 522 Cambyses
    522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
    486 - 465 Xerxes
    465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
    423 Xerxes II - few weeks
    423 Sogdianus - six months
    423 - 404 Darius II
    404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
    359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
    338 Arses
    338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)

    ... so exactly who are the TWO kings (plural) of Media and Persia?

    Daniel 8:20 As for the ram which you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia.


    Oh, that silly GOD. HE was never very good with world history. In fact I often saw HIM sleeping during class. Don't listen to HIM, listen to me because I have all the answers. -- Or so @Jay Ross would try to convince you, but don't fall for it. GOD is the Author of History and Scripture!

    WHO ARE THE KINGS OF MEDIA AND PERSIA?!?

    Whew,
    Bobby Jo
     
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