Who is the Babylon of Revelation? (part 1)

[Bobby Jo]

The Babylon of Rev. is not the same as Babylon of old. it really doesn't take that much study to figure that out.

Ummmmmm, they ARE the same, -- in structure. And it really doesn't take that much study:

The Babylonian Kingdom was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center”[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.[2]

[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
[2] Will Durant, Story of Civilization: Part II, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 223-224​

Bobby Jo

 

[Dave L]

I have no idea why people don't adhere to the "Extra Biblical" doctrine. EVERTHING in Scripture pertains to Israel; and is limited to the "known world" at the time it was written. Anything beyond this is called "Extra Biblical", which restricts ANYTHING that considers new eras, new technologies, new discovered lands, and new governments -- as though GOD were caught by SURPRISE when these all occurred.

Of course This position has inherent contradictions. Mark 16:15 commands Christians to “go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.” However, using this constrictive logic, maybe the as yet undiscovered two American continents, the Australian continent, and vast regions of Far East and southeast Asia should have never been evangelized. Furthermore, when Christ returns for the 1,000 year Millennial Reign, will one half of the world be exempt from His authority?

But who would be so naive to challenge established DOCTRINES, -- even if they fail to be Scriptural, Historical, or Rational --, THEY'RE DOCTRINES, and Scripture is only Scripture.


Bobby Jo

Israel = Christ and the Church. Always did, always will.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Israel = Christ and the Church. Always did, always will.

GOD is NOT one dimensional. HE is concerned with a sparrow; concerned with individuals; concerned with NATIONS; concerned with Israel; and concerned with the Church. -- To presume otherwise in the face of both Scripture and History is less than intelligent.

Perhaps per your perspective, GOD made a mistake when he sent Daniel to the King of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar). And John was equally in error when he cited "Mystery Babylon". -- Yep, apparently either there is a simple contradiction to your "doctrine", or maybe Nebuchadnezzar was JEWISH, and "Mystery Babylon" is Israel. -- WOW!


Bobby Jo

 

[Dave L]

One is NOT one dimensional. HE is concerned with a sparrow; concerned with individuals; concerned with NATIONS; and concerned with Israel; and with the Church. -- To presume otherwise in the face of both Scripture and History is less than intelligent.


Bobby Jo

Jesus and believers in him are biblical Israel. The broken off believers falsely called Jews and Israel today, exist solely because of their hatred of Christ and their rejection of him. Real Jews accepted him as the Messiah.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Jesus and believers in him are biblical Israel. The broken off believers falsely called Jews and Israel today, exist solely because of their hatred of Christ and their rejection of him. Real Jews accepted him as the Messiah.

Please see my "edited" post above!

Perhaps your "religion" has blinded you from reality. -- It's a good thing that we have GOD for the TRUTH of HIS entire creation.


Bobby Jo

 

[Dave L]

Please see my "edited" post above!

Perhaps your "religion" has blinded you from reality. -- It's a good thing that we have GOD for the TRUTH of HIS entire creation.


Bobby Jo

If you take Paul at his word, believers in Christ are Abraham's seed and unbelievers are not. Plus, when Jesus abolished circumcision, the one rite that made one a physical Jew and physical member of Israel, he forever abolished all but believing Israel in Christ.

 

[Bobby Jo]

If you take Paul at his word, ...

If you take Scripture in it's entirety, there are more aspects than you assert. Please use ALL Scripture, not just the stuff you "sell".

Bobby Jo

 

[Dave L]

If you take Scripture in it's entirety, there are more aspects than you assert. Please use ALL Scripture, not just the stuff you "sell".

Bobby Jo

If you understand circumcision and it's purpose, there are no biblical Jews or Israel today other than Christ and believers in him.

 

[Bobby Jo]

If you understand circumcision and it's purpose, there are no biblical Jews or Israel today other than Christ and believers in him.

You have your opinion (or doctrine) however FALSE. Of course we have Scripture which is TRUE. So it's incumbent upon each of us to make informed decisions, -- false doctrines, or the TRUTH of Scripture. And I adjure you to choose the latter.


Bobby Jo

 

[Dave L]

You have your opinion (or doctrine) however FALSE. Of course we have Scripture which is TRUE. So it's incumbent upon each of us to make informed decisions, -- false doctrines, or the TRUTH of Scripture. And I adjure you to choose the latter.


Bobby Jo

If you study "what makes one a Jew or member of Israel" in the bible, you will see it was circumcision. Not birth.

 

[Bobby Jo]

If you study "what makes one a Jew or member of Israel" in the bible, you will see it was circumcision. Not birth.

I believe the issue is whether "Mystery Babylon" is based upon the fact that Nebuchadnezzar employed the "Metropolis" model in his government, and whether this model has been followed by successive empires:

The Babylonian Kingdom was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center”[1] -- the prototype of governments as we see them to this day. The Babylonians controlled trade and commerce across western Asia, from the Mediterranean Sea to the Persian Gulf, building highways, legislating business, and beautifying the capital.[2]

[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35
[2] Will Durant, Story of Civilization: Part II, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 223-224​

Did you want to open another topic to discuss something else?


Bobby Jo