who is the false prophet in revelation

[Earburner]

Well it is a true story.

1. There is no parable that uses proper names.
2. there is no comparison of one thing to another like in all other parables.
3. It is not called a parable or story or fable.
4. No Comparative words like : "like," "likened unto," "can be compared to", "is as" etc are used.
5. Jesus starts the account with the words "There was a man".....
6. Sheol and Abrahams Bosdom are real places and not compared to anything.
7Prior to Jesus resurrection, the saved went to Abrahams Bosom and the lost still go to teh place of torments.
8. There is no other paraBLES SURROUNDING IT.

No Lararus is a real account.

And you have no authority to override when Gods writes a singular to make it plural!

But, in all of what you said, you missed the sole purpose for the story.

I have every authority to compare spiritual things with spiritual.

By the mind of Christ within me, I also have the authority to override the wisdom of men with that which the Holy Spirit teaches.
1 Cor. 2:1-16.

You also have that same authority. Unfortunately, not many access the Mind of Christ within them.

 

[FaithWillDo]

can you say me it?

Dear Holy999,

The "False Prophet" which is taught in Revelation is the spirit of anti-Christ. The spirit of anti-Christ is also presented in the second half of Revelation chapter 13 as the "second beast".

A called out believer who has the spirit of anti-Christ is "a" false prophet. They are also represented by the spiritual symbols "anti-Christ", "Man of Sin" and "Seven Headed Beast with 10 Horns/Ten Crowns".

In the verses below, Christ teaches how a believer becomes to be a "Man of Sin":

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit who teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14), they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first. This "worse than the first" spiritual condition makes the believer a false prophet, a Man of Sin or a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns and crowns.

Christ also taught on the spirit of anti-Christ in these verses:

Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, my name is LEGION; for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

The "man" who is possessed by many unclean spirits represents an Elect believer just prior to their conversion. The stones the man uses to cut himself represents the Law of Moses (man’s work). The unclean spirit (Legion, who are many) represents the spirit of anti-Christ who has spiritually killed the man (he dwells among the tombs). This is how Satan kills the saints (Mat 24:9, Rev 11:7). When Christ comes to the man with the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Christ drives out the spirit of anti-Christ by the brightness of His appearing. This represents the judgment of the Beast and False Prophet (a Man of Sin, one flesh). Before this happens, Legion asks to go into the great herd of Swine feeding upon the hill. The Herd of Swine represents other called out believers who are also chosen (“2000” in the herd). When Legion enters the Swine, they run into the sea and are killed just as the possessed man was killed earlier.

The spirit of anti-Christ invaded the church in the 1st century A.D. and ravaged it.

Paul prophesied of its coming in the verse below:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock

John also made this statement:

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

By the time the book of Revelation was written by John, the spirit of anti-Christ had come and destroyed the churches which the Apostles started. Nothing has changed in the church since that time. The apostasy of the church happened in accordance with God's "will" and plan which He has revealed in scripture.

To be saved in this age, the First Fruits/Elect must pass through this "Day of Evil" which occurs between them receiving the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. This time in between the two Rains is represented by the last 3 1/2 years remaining of Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy. This 3 1/2 years is also presented as "time, times and a half", "42 months" and "1260 days" The Day of Evil is also represented by Israel's 40 years of wandering in the wilderness and by Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.

If you look at Rev 13:5, you will see that the Seven Headed Beast continues for 42 months. The Seven Headed Beast is destroyed when an Elect believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit and is converted (2Thes 2:8).

Also, notice that the book of Revelation says that to be 'blessed", a believer must "keep the sayings of the prophecy".

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

The book also says that the "time is at hand" and that the prophecies taught in the book are not sealed.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Christ's second coming is said to happen "quickly" for the Elect. Christ's second coming is a spiritual event when He comes to one of His Elect to give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. If He doesn't come to believer before they die, they are not going to be saved in this age and will not be a first fruit of His harvest. To be saved in this age, a believer must keep the sayings of the prophecy. For the Elect, Christ will do all the necessary spiritual work to make sure they keep the sayings. He has been doing this work for His Elect ever since the book of Revelation was written.

Becoming a Man of Sin (a believer who has the spirit of anti-Christ) is a required step along the Pathway to Salvation. If a believer does not keep that step, they will not be saved in this age. All Elect believers must take the "mark of the beast" and they will do so without any knowledge that they have taken it. The "mark" is taken when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells a believer. However, the believer has no knowledge of when this happens because Satan's deceptions are too strong and concealed.

This verse applies:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The "very Elect" are the Apostles (including Paul) and the other early Elect believers. For them, it was not possible to be deceived by Satan because the spirit of anti-Christ came upon the church AFTER the "very Elect" had been converted and were given "eyes that can see".

After the apostasy came, all Elect believers have taken the mark of the beast at some point before they were converted. It happens during their "Day of Evil" when they endure for 42 months. Nothing has changed even for the Elect of today. They, too, will take the mark of the Beast before they are converted.

One final point: The book of Revelation is a spiritual teaching on the Pathway to Salvation an Elect believer must travel before they die. It is NOT a book which teaches outward world events which only happen near the end of the literal age. None of the "end-time" prophecies are teaching about outward literal events. The events they teach are spiritual and happen "within" a believer.

The Old Covenant was outward and physical. However, the New Covenant is inward and spiritual.

If a believer cannot understand spiritual things, they are not going to be able to understand the truth of God's Word and have their mind transformed by it. They will remain carnal.

Paul even had this same difficulty (even before the spirit of anti-Christ came) with the churches he started:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

The "world" understands God's Word in a physical, literal and outward way. A converted believer who has "eyes that can see" will understand God's Word in a spiritual way. They are the only ones who have the "mind of Christ" and who walk by the truth.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

Dear Holy999,

The "False Prophet" which is taught in Revelation is the spirit of anti-Christ. The spirit of anti-Christ is also presented in the second half of Revelation chapter 13 as the "second beast".

A called out believer who has the spirit of anti-Christ is "a" false prophet. They are also represented by the spiritual symbols "anti-Christ", "Man of Sin" and "Seven Headed Beast with 10 Horns/Ten Crowns".

In the verses below, Christ teaches how a believer becomes to be a "Man of Sin":

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit who teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit (the Holy Spirit of Promise, Eph 1:13-14), they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first. This "worse than the first" spiritual condition makes the believer a false prophet, a Man of Sin or a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns and crowns.

Christ also taught on the spirit of anti-Christ in these verses:

Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, my name is LEGION; for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

The "man" who is possessed by many unclean spirits represents an Elect believer just prior to their conversion. The stones the man uses to cut himself represents the Law of Moses (man’s work). The unclean spirit (Legion, who are many) represents the spirit of anti-Christ who has spiritually killed the man (he dwells among the tombs). This is how Satan kills the saints (Mat 24:9, Rev 11:7). When Christ comes to the man with the Latter Rain of the Spirit, Christ drives out the spirit of anti-Christ by the brightness of His appearing. This represents the judgment of the Beast and False Prophet (a Man of Sin, one flesh). Before this happens, Legion asks to go into the great herd of Swine feeding upon the hill. The Herd of Swine represents other called out believers who are also chosen (“2000” in the herd). When Legion enters the Swine, they run into the sea and are killed just as the possessed man was killed earlier.

The spirit of anti-Christ invaded the church in the 1st century A.D. and ravaged it.

Paul prophesied of its coming in the verse below:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock

John also made this statement:

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

By the time the book of Revelation was written by John, the spirit of anti-Christ had come and destroyed the churches which the Apostles started. Nothing has changed in the church since that time. The apostasy of the church happened in accordance with God's "will" and plan which He has revealed in scripture.

To be saved in this age, the First Fruits/Elect must pass through this "Day of Evil" which occurs between them receiving the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. This time in between the two Rains is represented by the last 3 1/2 years remaining of Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy. This 3 1/2 years is also presented as "time, times and a half", "42 months" and "1260 days" The Day of Evil is also represented by Israel's 40 years of wandering in the wilderness and by Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.

If you look at Rev 13:5, you will see that the Seven Headed Beast continues for 42 months. The Seven Headed Beast is destroyed when an Elect believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit and is converted (2Thes 2:8).

Also, notice that the book of Revelation says that to be 'blessed", a believer must "keep the sayings of the prophecy".

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

The book also says that the "time is at hand" and that the prophecies taught in the book are not sealed.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Christ's second coming is said to happen "quickly" for the Elect. Christ's second coming is a spiritual event when He comes to one of His Elect to give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. If He doesn't come to believer before they die, they are not going to be saved in this age and will not be a first fruit of His harvest. To be saved in this age, a believer must keep the sayings of the prophecy. For the Elect, Christ will do all the necessary spiritual work to make sure they keep the sayings. He has been doing this work for His Elect ever since the book of Revelation was written.

Becoming a Man of Sin (a believer who has the spirit of anti-Christ) is a required step along the Pathway to Salvation. If a believer does not keep that step, they will not be saved in this age. All Elect believers must take the "mark of the beast" and they will do so without any knowledge that they have taken it. The "mark" is taken when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells a believer. However, the believer has no knowledge of when this happens because Satan's deceptions are too strong and concealed.

This verse applies:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The "very Elect" are the Apostles (including Paul) and the other early Elect believers. For them, it was not possible to be deceived by Satan because the spirit of anti-Christ came upon the church AFTER the "very Elect" had been converted and were given "eyes that can see".

After the apostasy came, all Elect believers have taken the mark of the beast at some point before they were converted. It happens during their "Day of Evil" when they endure for 42 months. Nothing has changed even for the Elect of today. They, too, will take the mark of the Beast before they are converted.

One final point: The book of Revelation is a spiritual teaching on the Pathway to Salvation an Elect believer must travel before they die. It is NOT a book which teaches outward world events which only happen near the end of the literal age. None of the "end-time" prophecies are teaching about outward literal events. The events they teach are spiritual and happen "within" a believer.

The Old Covenant was outward and physical. However, the New Covenant is inward and spiritual.

If a believer cannot understand spiritual things, they are not going to be able to understand the truth of God's Word and have their mind transformed by it. They will remain carnal.

Paul even had this same difficulty (even before the spirit of anti-Christ came) with the churches he started:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

The "world" understands God's Word in a physical, literal and outward way. A converted believer who has "eyes that can see" will understand God's Word in a spiritual way. They are the only ones who have the "mind of Christ" and who walk by the truth.

Joe

See below:

 

[Earburner]

I agree to some of what you are saying, but I think we can simplify what takes place with people, who become only believers, but never invite God's Holy Spirit into their lives.

1a. That spirit of antichrist cannot co-exist (co-inhabit) within a born again believer at the same time.
1b. Once the Holy Spirit of Christ enters within us, all evil spirits (legion) are vanquished immediately.
Mat. 12:28
Mark 3:27

2a. Luke 11:20-26 reveals a person who comes to Christ for forgiveness of sins, who is then cleansed of sin, BUT never goes forward to ask God for the Gift of His Holy Spirit to dwell within them. Luke 11:13, Rom. 8:8-9.
All of such are open and extremely vulnerable for re-occupation by that spirit of antichrist
2b. However, once they do allow the Spirit of Christ to enter into them (Rev. 3:20), all evil spirits (legion) are vanquished immediately, and can never return into that person (1b).
God the Father, through His Son, will have taken up permanent residence within the believer, who in that very moment has now become born again, being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit, unto the Day of redemption.
Hope this helps.

Edit: there are MANY Bishops, Pastors and lay people who are in the condition of item 2a.
Most of such teach and preach about the historical Jesus, but cannot teach or preach about the spiritual Jesus.
1 Cor. 2:5

 

[FaithWillDo]

I agree to some of what you are saying, but I think we can simplify what takes place with people, who become only believers, but never invite God's Holy Spirit into their lives.

1a. That spirit of antichrist cannot co-exist (co-inhabit) within a born again believer at the same time.
1b. Once the Holy Spirit of Christ enters within us, all evil spirits (legion) are vanquished immediately.
Mat. 12:28
Mark 3:27

2a. Luke 11:20-26 reveals a person who comes to Christ for forgiveness of sins, who is then cleansed of sin, BUT never goes forward to ask God for the Gift of His Holy Spirit to dwell within them. Luke 11:13.
All of such are open and extremely vulnerable for re-occupation by that spirit of antichrist
2b. However, once they do allow Christ to enter into them (Rev. 3:20), all evil spirits (legion) are vanquished immediately, and can never return into that person (1b).
God the Father, through His Son, will have taken up permanent residence within the believer, who in that very moment has now become born again, being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit, unto the Day of redemption.
Hope this helps.
I agree to some of what you are saying, but I think we can simplify what takes place with people, who become only believers, but never invite God's Holy Spirit into their lives.

1a. That spirit of antichrist cannot co-exist (co-inhabit) within a born again believer at the same time.
1b. Once the Holy Spirit of Christ enters within us, all evil spirits (legion) are vanquished immediately.
Mat. 12:28
Mark 3:27

2a. Luke 11:20-26 reveals a person who comes to Christ for forgiveness of sins, who is then cleansed of sin, BUT never goes forward to ask God for the Gift of His Holy Spirit to dwell within them. Luke 11:13.
All of such are open and extremely vulnerable for re-occupation by that spirit of antichrist
2b. However, once they do allow Christ to enter into them (Rev. 3:20), all evil spirits (legion) are vanquished immediately, and can never return into that person (1b).
God the Father, through His Son, will have taken up permanent residence within the believer, who in that very moment has now become born again, being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit, unto the Day of redemption.
Hope this helps.

Edit: there are MANY Bishops, Pastors and lay people who are in the condition of item 2a.
Most of such teach and preach about the historical Jesus, but cannot teach or preach about the spiritual Jesus.
1 Cor. 2:5

Dear Earburner,
A person is not converted after they are called out from the world and enter the church. At the time when they are "called out", Christ only gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain is ONLY the down payment of the full amount which will be given when Christ "comes again" with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. However, Christ only comes the second time to His chosen Elect. "Many" people are called out from the world and will enter the church but only a "few" are them are actually chosen to receive the Latter Rain and salvation.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

And now that the church has become apostate with the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ, an Elect believer will no longer fellowship with them after he is converted and can see the truth of Christ. It is the truth of Christ which reveals and slays the Man of Sin within the Elect believer.

Since a converted Elect believer will no longer fellowship with the fallen away believers who walk in darkness in the apostate church, there are no converted Elect believers in any of the churches. There may be a "few" Elect believers in the churches but that is only because they have not yet received the Latter Rain and been converted. When an Elect believer is converted, they have their spiritual blindness healed at that time. For that reason, they will not remain in the apostate church when they see it for what it is.

You said:
God the Father, through His Son, will have taken up permanent residence within the believer, who in that very moment has now become born again, being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit, unto the Day of redemption.

The "sealing" is when an Elect believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit. It "seals" them until their Day of Redemption when they receive the Latter Rain and are "born again". The Day of Redemption is the First Resurrection mentioned in Rev 20:5. It is the spiritual resurrection and not the bodily resurrection which occurs at the end of this age.

The verse below is speaking of the spiritual resurrection (Day of Redemption) which occurs when the Latter Rain is poured out. From this resurrection, the believer's salvation is secured and they will never fall away again (never die).

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

You mentioned:

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

The Kingdom of God comes with the Latter Rain of the Spirit.

Mar 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

The "strong man's house" is a believer with only the Early Rain of the Spirit. When the spirit of anti-Christ comes to a called out believer, he will bind the strong man and spoil his house (the believer will lose their salvation). This is how the church became apostate.

Also, you mentioned Luke chapter 11 and the prayer asking for the Holy Spirit (verses 9-13). Christ's comments on the prayer are directed to His disciples (the Elect, the sons who are heirs). They are the only ones who will ask for and receive the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) in this age.

The prayer also applies to the lost of the final age. It is presented in the parable told in the preceding verses 5 - 8. It is at that time the lost will ask for the Holy Spirit and because of their persistence, Christ will pour out the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) upon them.

This is the key verse of the parable:

Luke 11:7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.

The Elect are already saved and the door has been shut. This parable can only apply to the final age when the full harvest of mankind is brought into the barn (the Kingdom of Heaven).

One other point: There is a rigid pathway to salvation that Christ causes all of this Elect to fully travel before they die.

The major events which occur on the Pathway to Salvation for Christ’s Elect include:

• Receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit and entering the church. This is when they are "sealed".
• Falling away and becoming a Man of Sin.
• The second coming of Christ to the Elect believer.
• Receiving the Latter Rain of the Spirit and entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
• Judgment of the Day of the Lord.
• Time of testing.
• The bodily resurrection at the end of the age.

Note: Unlike for the Elect, the judgment of the Day of the Lord will precede the gift of the Latter Rain for the “lost” of the final age. Because of this difference, the lost of the final age will experience wrath during their time of judgment whereas the Elect do not.

God established that mankind’s salvation will occur in two groups and at two different times.

The first group of mankind to be saved is the called & chosen group. They are the Elect, the First-Fruits of the harvest. They are saved in this present age "at His coming" (1Cor 15:23). No one can "choose" themselves into this group. God chose everyone in this group from the foundation of the world. For that reason, they are said to be "blessed".

The second group to be saved is the balance of mankind. They will be saved at the end of the next and final age.

When Christ’s work is finished, 100% of mankind will be converted into a child of God - that is the meaning and purpose for this creation.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

The "sealing" is when an Elect believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit. It "seals" them until their Day of Redemption when they receive the Latter Rain and are "born again". The Day of Redemption is the First Resurrection mentioned in Rev 20:5. It is the spiritual resurrection and not the bodily resurrection which occurs at the end of this age.

The verse below is speaking of the spiritual resurrection (Day of Redemption) which occurs when the Latter Rain is poured out. From this resurrection, the believer's salvation is secured and they will never fall away again (never die).

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Yes, but I must emphasize that Jesus is the Firstborn from the dead, and all we who are Born again of His Spirit, are having part in His resurrection now. Rev. 20:6.

Yes, our resurrection is a two stage processs. First by His Spirit, then secondly in the day of His Glorious appearance in His Immortality, whereby we will become Immortal also, after His likeness.

In all actuality, there are three manifestations of Jesus.
First- in mortal flesh to Israel only.
Second- since Pentecost, by His Spirit, making Himself available to all the world, for whosoever will. Rev. 3:20 is the born again experience now, of being made into a NEW creature.
Third- from Heaven in the Glory of His Immortality. Redemption to His chosen, destruction to all others. Luke 17:28-29.

 

[Earburner]

The "sealing" is when an Elect believer receives the Early Rain of the Spirit. It "seals" them until their Day of Redemption when they receive the Latter Rain and are "born again". The Day of Redemption is the First Resurrection mentioned in Rev 20:5. It is the spiritual resurrection and not the bodily resurrection which occurs at the end of this age.

I agree in what you say, and how you say it. However, I do see the symbolic 1000 years as not being literal years, nor is it to be tacked on the end, right after Jesus returns in flaming fire.
I see the 1000 years as symbolic, as being the Lord's day now, which is still now, ever since Jesus' first appearance.

The only issue that is going to end God's Age of Grace, the symbolic 1000 years, of people being born again of/by/through His Holy Spirit, is by no more people will be coming to God in repentance.
The mark of the beast will clinch that for everyone, and shall be the very instrument that will effectively and effectually separate the goats from the sheep.

 

[Raccoon1010]

can you say me it?

The false prophet is someone that claims Jesus is not the Messiah.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes, but I must emphasize that Jesus is the Firstborn from the dead, and all we who are Born again of His Spirit, are having part in His resurrection now. Rev. 20:6.

Yes, our resurrection is a two stage processs. First by His Spirit, then secondly in the day of His Glorious appearance in His Immortality, whereby we will become Immortal also, after His likeness.

In all actuality, there are three manifestations of Jesus.
First- in mortal flesh to Israel only.
Second- since Pentecost, by His Spirit, making Himself available to all the world, for whosoever will. Rev. 3:20 is the born again experience now, of being made into a NEW creature.
Third- from Heaven in the Glory of His Immortality. Redemption to His chosen, destruction to all others. Luke 17:28-29.

Dear Earburner,
You said:
Yes, but I must emphasize that Jesus is the Firstborn from the dead, and all we who are Born again of His Spirit, are having part in His resurrection now. Rev. 20:6.

Yes, Jesus is the first born from the dead and because He rose, we will, too. In fact, Jesus is the Kingdom of Heaven. When we enter the Kingdom of Heaven, we enter Christ. And because we are "in Christ", we are "one" with Him as He and His Father are "one".

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Because we are "in Christ", we will share in His glory and will reign with Him as Kings and Priests over the "lost" in the final age for the purpose of their salvation. Everything that Christ does in this creation is ultimately done because of His love for mankind.

As for the symbol "First Resurrection" mentioned in Rev 20:5, it is referring to the events of chapter 19. Those events include the Marriage of the Lamb, Marriage Supper of the Lamb and the Thousand Year Reign (judgment of the believer). All these events combine to make up the "First Resurrection" which is a symbol for the conversion process.

You said:
Yes, our resurrection is a two stage process. First by His Spirit, then secondly in the day of His Glorious appearance in His Immortality, whereby we will become Immortal also, after His likeness.

I agree - first comes the spiritual resurrection which happens when the Latter Rain is poured out on the believer. This will be followed by the bodily resurrection which happens at the end of this physical age.

You said:
In all actuality, there are three manifestations of Jesus.
First- in mortal flesh to Israel only.
Second- since Pentecost, by His Spirit, making Himself available to all the world, for whosoever will. Rev. 3:20 is the born again experience now, of being made into a NEW creature.
Third- from Heaven in the Glory of His Immortality. Redemption to His chosen, destruction to all others. Luke 17:28-29.

There are only two manifestations of Christ in this world.

This verse applies:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

You are confusing number 2 and 3 as being separate events. They are not - they are one and the same.

I'll explain below:

First, Christ will send a converted Elect believer "in the spirit of Elijah" to the fallen away Elect believer.

Jam 5:17 Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months (time between the Early and Latter Rains). 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain (Latter Rain), and the earth brought forth her fruit. 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one turns him back (causes him to repent) 20 Let him know, that he which turns the sinner back from the error of his way shall save their soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The converted believer will make the call of Elijah for the fallen away believer to repent from their "works". This call of Elijah is the same call mentioned in Rev 18:4 and in Mat 25:6.

Once the fallen away believer repents, they will become watchful and sober. This will make the pathway "straight" for the Lord to come. This is the "second coming of Christ". This is the same pattern which the Jewish Elect followed when John the Baptist made his call to repent.

When Christ comes the second time, He will knock on the believer's door.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Those who hear His voice are the ones who have repented. When they open the door, Christ will enter into the believer as the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is the Marriage of the Lamb (Rev 19:7).

With the believer now being born again and having "eyes that can see", Christ will "sup" with him and will feed him milk, bread, meat and New Wine. This is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev 19:9).

This truth which the believer consumes will cause Christ to "appear". Christ's appearance will then bring on the judgment of the Day of the Lord (Rev 19:11-21). This judgment is the Thousand Year Reign (Rev 20: 1-6).

FYI: the Thousand Year Reign has two parts to it: 1). When Christ and the believer reign in judgment over the believer's own carnality and 2). When Christ and the believer reign over the "lost" in the final age.

When Christ appears, His brightness will reveal and then destroy the Man of Sin, whom the believer used to be (2Thes 2:1-8).

These verses apply to the destruction of the Man of Sin and also to the Great Harlot:

Mat 24:40 Then shall two (one believer, one flesh) be in the field; the one shall be taken (Man of Sin), and the other left (child of God).

Mat 24:41 Two women (one believer, one flesh) shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken (the Great Harlot), and the other left (child of God).

In case you are unaware, the Great Harlot represents mankind's carnal nature. When the Great Harlot is destroyed (Rev ch. 18), she is shown to be the "habitation of devils" (the spirit of anti-Christ):

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Mankind's carnal nature is represented by many symbols in scripture.

Here is a list of most of the symbols:
Woman
Eve
Sodom
Egypt
Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot
Old Jerusalem (the one "below")
Damascus

One final point: all end-time prophecy is teaching the pathway to salvation. That includes the prophecies in Luke 17 & 21 and Matthew 24 plus nearly all of the book of Revelation. Also, Paul's conversion (shown in Acts chapter 9) teaches the Pathway to Salvation in "type" and is very detailed. Christ Himself teaches the pathway to salvation frequently in the Gospels, but usually just "here a little and there a little" (Isa 28:9-12).

Does any of what I presented above make sense to you?

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

I agree in what you say, and how you say it. However, I do see the symbolic 1000 years as not being literal years, nor is it to be tacked on the end, right after Jesus returns in flaming fire.
I see the 1000 years as symbolic, as being the Lord's day now, which is still now, ever since Jesus' first appearance.

The only issue that is going to end God's Age of Grace, the symbolic 1000 years, of people being born again of/by/through His Holy Spirit, is by no more people will be coming to God in repentance.
The mark of the beast will clinch that for everyone, and shall be the very instrument that will effectively and effectually separate the goats from the sheep.

Dear Earburner,

I agree, there is no literal thousand year reign of Christ upon the earth after this age ends. That is a carnal understanding of scripture.

I explained the Thousand Years reign in my previous post. It is symbolic of the Day of the Lord (judgment). It occurs now when each of the Elect are judged during their physical lifetimes and later in the final age when the balance of mankind is judged. Both times, Christ and the Elect reign in judgment.

Do you have a verse that says this is the "age of grace"? I have not seen that term before and it contradicts many scriptures.

"Grace" is an attribute of Jesus Christ, so much so, that it is not wrong to say that Jesus Christ is the manifestation of the Grace of God the Father.

Christ's grace, like His love and mercy, never changes nor does it ever come to an end. Christ will eventually come to all mankind and cover them with His blood of the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. It is the only way a person can be saved.

The "mark of the Beast" occurs when a called out believer become indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ.

The Elect take the "mark of the Beast" and because of such, they must die. The "natural man", who is made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) by the spirit of anti-Christ, cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. He must be destroyed. And just as the Elect repented and received the Latter Rain, so will the "lost" of the final age. Joel chapter 2 teaches this truth.

Do you believe that Christ is going to fail in His mission which His Father gave Him to accomplish?

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

If you believe that Christ is going to fail, can you explain why you believe this will be the case?

Joe

 

[Earburner]

I keep telling you that I agree with much (90%) of what you say.
Of the 10%, I hear it and entertain it, but by Christ's mind within me, your understanding of the born again experience/existence, as the start of becoming new a creature now, is being misconstrued with a future additional 1000 years on earth with the unsaved.

In other words, I percieve that you are thinking that additional 1000 years on earth, is for "the rest of the dead", who are unsaved. The unsaved, co-existing with the resurrected, immortal saints?

In the three manifestations of Christ: flesh, Spirit, and Immortality, the "church age" is purposely avoiding and eclipsing Jesus' presence in the world among us all.
You appear to be avoiding Luke 17:28-29
It is that of which I don't agree with.

Dear Earburner,
You said:
Yes, but I must emphasize that Jesus is the Firstborn from the dead, and all we who are Born again of His Spirit, are having part in His resurrection now. Rev. 20:6.

Yes, Jesus is the first born from the dead and because He rose, we will, too. In fact, Jesus is the Kingdom of Heaven. When we enter the Kingdom of Heaven, we enter Christ. And because we are "in Christ", we are "one" with Him as He and His Father are "one".

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Because we are "in Christ", we will share in His glory and will reign with Him as Kings and Priests over the "lost" in the final age for the purpose of their salvation. Everything that Christ does in this creation is ultimately done because of His love for mankind.

As for the symbol "First Resurrection" mentioned in Rev 20:5, it is referring to the events of chapter 19. Those events include the Marriage of the Lamb, Marriage Supper of the Lamb and the Thousand Year Reign (judgment of the believer). All these events combine to make up the "First Resurrection" which is a symbol for the conversion process.

You said:
Yes, our resurrection is a two stage process. First by His Spirit, then secondly in the day of His Glorious appearance in His Immortality, whereby we will become Immortal also, after His likeness.

I agree - first comes the spiritual resurrection which happens when the Latter Rain is poured out on the believer. This will be followed by the bodily resurrection which happens at the end of this physical age.

You said:
In all actuality, there are three manifestations of Jesus.
First- in mortal flesh to Israel only.
Second- since Pentecost, by His Spirit, making Himself available to all the world, for whosoever will. Rev. 3:20 is the born again experience now, of being made into a NEW creature.
Third- from Heaven in the Glory of His Immortality. Redemption to His chosen, destruction to all others. Luke 17:28-29.

There are only two manifestations of Christ in this world.

This verse applies:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

You are confusing number 2 and 3 as being separate events. They are not - they are one and the same.

I'll explain below:

First, Christ will send a converted Elect believer "in the spirit of Elijah" to the fallen away Elect believer.

Jam 5:17 Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months (time between the Early and Latter Rains). 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain (Latter Rain), and the earth brought forth her fruit. 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one turns him back (causes him to repent) 20 Let him know, that he which turns the sinner back from the error of his way shall save their soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The converted believer will make the call of Elijah for the fallen away believer to repent from their "works". This call of Elijah is the same call mentioned in Rev 18:4 and in Mat 25:6.

Once the fallen away believer repents, they will become watchful and sober. This will make the pathway "straight" for the Lord to come. This is the "second coming of Christ". This is the same pattern which the Jewish Elect followed when John the Baptist made his call to repent.

When Christ comes the second time, He will knock on the believer's door.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Those who hear His voice are the ones who have repented. When they open the door, Christ will enter into the believer as the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is the Marriage of the Lamb (Rev 19:7).

With the believer now being born again and having "eyes that can see", Christ will "sup" with him and will feed him milk, bread, meat and New Wine. This is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev 19:9).

This truth which the believer consumes will cause Christ to "appear". Christ's appearance will then bring on the judgment of the Day of the Lord (Rev 19:11-21). This judgment is the Thousand Year Reign (Rev 20: 1-6).

FYI: the Thousand Year Reign has two parts to it: 1). When Christ and the believer reign in judgment over the believer's own carnality and 2). When Christ and the believer reign over the "lost" in the final age.

When Christ appears, His brightness will reveal and then destroy the Man of Sin, whom the believer used to be (2Thes 2:1-8).

These verses apply to the destruction of the Man of Sin and also to the Great Harlot:

Mat 24:40 Then shall two (one believer, one flesh) be in the field; the one shall be taken (Man of Sin), and the other left (child of God).

Mat 24:41 Two women (one believer, one flesh) shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken (the Great Harlot), and the other left (child of God).

In case you are unaware, the Great Harlot represents mankind's carnal nature. When the Great Harlot is destroyed (Rev ch. 18), she is shown to be the "habitation of devils" (the spirit of anti-Christ):

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Mankind's carnal nature is represented by many symbols in scripture.

Here is a list of most of the symbols:
Woman
Eve
Sodom
Egypt
Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot
Old Jerusalem (the one "below")
Damascus

One final point: all end-time prophecy is teaching the pathway to salvation. That includes the prophecies in Luke 17 & 21 and Matthew 24 plus nearly all of the book of Revelation. Also, Paul's conversion (shown in Acts chapter 9) teaches the Pathway to Salvation in "type" and is very detailed. Christ Himself teaches the pathway to salvation frequently in the Gospels, but usually just "here a little and there a little" (Isa 28:9-12).

Does any of what I presented above make sense to you?

Joe

 

[Earburner]

^ I keep informing you that I do agree with much (90%) of what you say.
Of the 10%, I hear it and entertain it, but by Christ's mind within me, your understanding of the born again experience/existence, as the start of becoming a new creature now, is being misconstrued with a future additional 1000 years on earth with the unsaved.

In other words, I percieve that you are thinking that an additional 1000 years on earth, is for "the rest of the dead", who are unsaved. The unsaved, co-existing with the resurrected, immortal saints??
Not going to happen. There is only one resurrection of the just. All who do not now enter into it, before they breathe there last breath, are forever lost and perished.

In the three manifestations of Christ: Flesh, Spirit, and Immortality, the "church age" is purposely avoiding and eclipsing Jesus' Spiritual presence in the world among us all. And of course they (the religious) would, it is the most crucial point of our salvation. Rom. 8:8-9, 1 Cor. 2:5 and 1 John 5:12-13.
You appear to be avoiding that, as well as Luke 17:28-29.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I keep telling you that I agree with much (90%) of what you say.
Of the 10%, I hear it and entertain it, but by Christ's mind within me, your understanding of the born again experience/existence, as the start of becoming new a creature now, is being misconstrued with a future additional 1000 years on earth with the unsaved.

In other words, I percieve that you are thinking that additional 1000 years on earth, is for "the rest of the dead", who are unsaved. The unsaved, co-existing with the resurrected, immortal saints?

In the three manifestations of Christ: flesh, Spirit, and Immortality, the "church age" is purposely avoiding and eclipsing Jesus' presence in the world among us all.
You appear to be avoiding Luke 17:28-29
It is that of which I don't agree with.

Dear Earburner,
I do NOT believe that there is a literal thousand year reign on the earth. The "thousand year reign" is a spiritual symbol which represents the JUDGMENT of Christ when the Elect will reign (judge) with Him. It has two parts to it as I explained earlier. The "thousand years" is not literal time nor does it occur only in one age - it spans over two ages of time.

Scripture does teach that there is another age coming though. It is commonly called the Lake of Fire age. During that final age, the resurrected "lost" will be judged until they have "paid the last penny":

Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”

After they have paid the last penny, Christ will have pity (mercy) on them and will pour out the Early and Latter Rains.

It is also during this final age when the elders and chief priests (who crucified Christ) will be saved:

Mat 21:31 Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do.

It is not a question of "IF" Christ is going to save all mankind, it is only a matter of when it happens. The elders and chief priests who crucified Christ will be saved by Christ & the Elect in the final age. They will not be "heirs" or First Fruits and they will not receive "life" during the ages. Their salvation will come at the very end of the final age.

This verse applies to the end of that final age:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast (Feast of Tabernacles), Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The Feast of Tabernacles is an Old Testament "type" which represents the final harvest of mankind which will occur at the end of the final age. The First Fruits are represented by the Feast of Weeks and are only the early portion of the harvest. They are NOT the full harvest as "many" believe.

This verse below also applies to that time.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Since the First Fruits are harvested early, the ends of the ages are said to come upon them now:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The ends of the ages are NOT complete when this present age ends. This age is only for harvesting the First Fruits. There is still one more age of time left for Christ to bring in the full harvest of mankind.

So I take it that you do not believe there is another age coming?

There is a great deal of scripture which talks about the next age. Most of Joel chapter 2 takes place in that final age. It is in the final age when this verse is fulfilled:

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Finally, you did not answer my question about Christ fulfilling the mission His Father gave Him.

Are you going answer it?

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

^ I keep informing you that I do agree with much (90%) of what you say.
Of the 10%, I hear it and entertain it, but by Christ's mind within me, your understanding of the born again experience/existence, as the start of becoming a new creature now, is being misconstrued with a future additional 1000 years on earth with the unsaved.

In other words, I percieve that you are thinking that an additional 1000 years on earth, is for "the rest of the dead", who are unsaved. The unsaved, co-existing with the resurrected, immortal saints??
Not going to happen. There is only one resurrection of the just. All who do not now enter into it, before they breathe there last breath, are forever lost and perished.

In the three manifestations of Christ: Flesh, Spirit, and Immortality, the "church age" is purposely avoiding and eclipsing Jesus' Spiritual presence in the world among us all. And of course they (the religious) would, it is the most crucial point of our salvation. Rom. 8:8-9, 1 Cor. 2:5 and 1 John 5:12-13.
You appear to be avoiding that, as well as Luke 17:28-29.

Dear Earburner,
You also said:
In the three manifestations of Christ: Flesh, Spirit, and Immortality, the "church age" is purposely avoiding and eclipsing Jesus' Spiritual presence in the world among us all. And of course they (the religious) would, it is the most crucial point of our salvation. Rom. 8:8-9, 1 Cor. 2:5 and 1 John 5:12-13.
You appear to be avoiding that, as well as Luke 17:28-29.

Once a believer is converted, they will remain in the presence of Christ forever. His "presence" is a continuation of the Second coming of Christ when He "appears" to the converted believer. Once Christ appears to them at His second coming, He will continually be with them as they live out the rest of their days in the flesh.

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

As for Luke 17:28-29, it is teaching on the Day of the Lord which immediately follows the Marriage Supper of the Lord. See Revelation chapter 19. The destruction of Sodom is a "type" which teaches the destruction of a believer's worsened carnal nature (the Great Harlot).

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with this verse.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

Oops, sorry! I just read your understanding of the 1000 years. Yes, we agree. There is no 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth upon his Glorious return from Heaven.

 

[Earburner]

I have been having trouble replying to your posts. Because of excessive character counts, I would not be allowed to "post reply". Your posts have been quite long.
I usually don't like to pick and choose sections of another's posts because of train of thought.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I have been having trouble replying to your posts. Because of excessive character counts, I would not be allowed to "post reply". Your posts have been quite long.
I usually don't like to pick and choose sections of another's posts because of train of thought.

Dear Earburner,
It's okay to delete most of my reply to make room for your post. I sometimes copy the specific things I want to respond to into the body of my post and then remove 90% of the post I am responding to. I've done a few times on this forum already. 10,000 letters is not a lot of space.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

Once a believer is converted, they will remain in the presence of Christ forever. His "presence" is a continuation of the Second coming of Christ when He "appears" to the converted believer. Once Christ appears to them at His second coming, He will continually be with them as they live out the rest of their days in the flesh.

Are you saying that the second manifestation (coming) of Jesus will take place with the converted believer upon his mortal death?

 

[Earburner]

I explained the Thousand Years reign in my previous post. It is symbolic of the Day of the Lord (judgment). It occurs now when each of the Elect are judged during their physical lifetimes and later in the final age when the balance of mankind is judged. Both times, Christ and the Elect reign in judgment.

Do you have a verse that says this is the "age of grace"? I have not seen that term before and it contradicts many scriptures.

"Grace" is an attribute of Jesus Christ, so much so, that it is not wrong to say that Jesus Christ is the manifestation of the Grace of God the Father.

The words "Age of God's Grace" is based on the assumption that the victory over death, by the sacrificial and shed blood of Jesus, is the only form of atonement that is acceptable to the Father for the forgiveness of sin.
Therefore, in the Day of Jesus' visible return from Heaven, the time for forgiveness of sin will have ended. John 3:16
Because the time shall come, when men will no longer repent towards God through faith in Jesus, it is at that time that Jesus shall be sent by the Father on His return trip, to redeem/resurrect/change all of His Saints into the likeness of Jesus' immortality, both those who have been dead, and those who are alive in that day. All others shall be destroyed, as if they had never been born.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Are you saying that the second manifestation (coming) of Jesus will take place with the converted believer upon his mortal death?

Dear Earburner,

No, not even close. You should read my post again.

The second coming of Christ happens when Christ pours out the Latter Rain on the Elect believer. After the believer is given "eyes that can see", the Christ will spiritually appear to them. Christ's appearance is what brings judgment to the Man of Sin within the believer. This is called conversion and is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost.

Joe