Who or What is the Holy Spirit???

[Angelina]

Hi everyone!
I thought that it might be a good idea to discuss this subject a little more closely as I see it is something that has been discussed indirectly, on other threads and hope it may help those who wish to understand more about the function of the Holy Spirit...I do not profess to be an expert in this area [far from it] but I willing share what I do understand according to his leading...

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Gift of the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is only classified as a gift in the above verse because he is given to believers freely. The Holy Spirit is the seal of the promise given to those who believe. A guarantee of ownership and deposit guaranteeing our inheritance...

John 7:37-39
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Galatians 3:14
that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

What does "until the redemption of those who are God’s possession" mean? Let's take a look at:
Romans 9:28
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:22
set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5
Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

If the Holy Spirit were just a force or a gift like the "Word of Knowledge" for instance - There would not be such a powerful eternal consequence held against those who speak against him.
Mark 3
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Hebrews 10: 29
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

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Who or what is the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit is a person...who is given and received freely to believers, after salvation.
Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

He has a mind: Romans 8:27, a will: 1 Corinthians 12:11, and emotions: Ephesians 4:30, 1 Thessalonians 1:6. He can speak: Acts 8:29, 13:2, 2 Peter 1:20-21, possesses Intellect: 1 Corinthians 2:10



The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus
Galatians 4:6
6 And because you are sons,God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

2 Corinthians 3: 17-18
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Romans 8:9-11
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you,the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

John10:17-18
[sup]17[/sup] “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. [sup]18[/sup] No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

The Spirit could not come until Jesus departed.
John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

He lives in us
John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

2 Timothy 1
13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

1 John 3:24
The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

There is only One Spirit...
Ephesians 2:16-18
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Ephesians 4:4
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

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How does the Holy Spirit help us?

He sanctifies:
Romans 15:16,
16 that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 1:2
2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

2 Thessalonians 2:13
[sup]13[/sup] But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

He confirms:
Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

He intercedes on our behalf:
Romans 8:26-34
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

He teaches: John 14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

He convicts:
Galatians 5:16-17
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

John 16:8-9
8 And when He has come (referring to the Holy Spirit), He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

He leads us:
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

He gives us joy and peace:
Romans 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 15:13
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

He distributes gifts to believers accordingly
1 Corinthians 12:11
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
1 Corinthians 12:7-11
1. The Word of Knowledge
2. The Word of Wisdom
3. The Gift of Prophecy
4. The Gift of Faith
5. The Gifts of Healings
6. The Working of Miracles
7. The Discerning of Spirits
8. Different Kinds of Tongues
9. The Interpretation of Tongues

Ministerial Gifts:
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Please note: I have not exhausted all biblical resources in this area of discussion and I am aware that the Holy Spirit does so much more than what has been identified in the above passages....

Blessings!!! ^_^

 

[Vengle]

At Acts 2:38 the phrase “the free gift” is feminine gender, accusative case, and singular number.

The phrase “of the holy spirit” is neuter gender, genitive case, and singular number.

We know that the phrase “of the holy spirit” is neuter gender because the inflection which would be required to make it masculine is not carried into the word “spirit”. The genitive case article which could have been understood as masculine also serves for neuter but in the case of the masculine gender would require the word “spirit” to be the word it sets off. And the last letter of the word “spirit” changes to the sigma instead of retaining the Ypsilon. So it is definitely neuter.

When the phrase “the holy spirit” is critiqued in the Greek scriptures we often find that it is neuter rather than given any gender except when it is spoken of in illustrative terms of personification.

That clearly tells us with no guess work that it cannot ever correctly be understood to be a literal person.

Even if we did interpret the portion of the phrase "of the holy" as being masculine by its inflection, it would yet have to be carried into the word "spirit" to set that word off as masculine.

So even if anyone wishes to contest what I have said, the best it would prove is that "of the holy" might be understood as masculine as God is the source of holiness. But the gender is clearly not carried through to set off the word "spirit" as it would have to be if "the holy spirit" was a person.

 

[Angelina]

Since the word pneuma (Spirit - Greek) is not gender specific, any pronoun used in substitution of it should also show the same neutral type of pronoun:
The Bible does not, in fact, use a neutral pronoun (pneuma) when referring to the Holy Spirit but uses the word "ekeinos" which is a masculine pronoun indicating a "He" and not an "it"

Jesus says in John 14:26

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit (hagios pneuma), whom the Father will send in My name, He (ekeinos) will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 15:26
26"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit (pneuma) of truth who goes out from the Father, He (ekeinos) will testify about Me.

John 16:13
13But when He (ekeinos), the Spirit (pneuma) of truth, comes, He (ekeinos) will guide you into all truth. He (ekeinos) will not speak on His own; He (ekeinos) will speak only what He (ekeinos) hears, and He (ekeinos) will tell you what is yet to come.

The attributes of personality are intellect, knowledge, mind, emotions, and will. The Bible makes it obvious that the Holy Spirit manifests all five of these attributes.

also noted in: http://www.cornersto...piritPerson.htm


Shalom!

 

[Vengle]

Since the word pneuma (Spirit - Greek) is not gender specific, any pronoun used in substitution of it should also show the same neutral type of pronoun:
The Bible does not, in fact, use a neutral pronoun (pneuma) when referring to the Holy Spirit but uses the word "ekeinos" which is a masculine pronoun indicating a "He" and not an "it"

Jesus says in John 14:26

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit (hagios pneuma), whom the Father will send in My name, He (ekeinos) will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 15:26
26"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit (pneuma) of truth who goes out from the Father, He (ekeinos) will testify about Me.

John 16:13
13But when He (ekeinos), the Spirit (pneuma) of truth, comes, He (ekeinos) will guide you into all truth. He (ekeinos) will not speak on His own; He (ekeinos) will speak only what He (ekeinos) hears, and He (ekeinos) will tell you what is yet to come.

The attributes of personality are intellect, knowledge, mind, emotions, and will. The Bible makes it obvious that the Holy Spirit manifests all five of these attributes.

also noted in: http://www.cornersto...piritPerson.htm


Shalom!

That is correct. And that is the personification for the purpose of illustration I had in mind.

Were it not a personification as a feature of illustration we would see it accorded everywhere with the gender specific pronouns as to fail to do so would be disrespectful of an actual person.

What I see then is that the word "spirit" is most often used as is the word "body" or "vessel". What we are seeing is that this "spirit" is a means of conveying God's holiness to us, explaining why we see the inflection dropped off of the word "spirit" at most places such as at Acts 2:38. It itself being no more than a medium with no nature of its own but what it derives directly of God. And that is of course because it issues from Him as his means of communicating to us.

It is admittedly difficult for us to understand it precisely as it is more than just a thing as magnetic radio waves would be but yet something less than an actual direct person.

However we understand it we can be certain it does carry and convey the actual holiness in the person of God to us. And it is like being able to speak directly to God through it.

It actually has no will of its own but its will is directly God's will. When we grieve it we are directly grieving God for it is His will.

If you have noticed, when we are in the spirit talking to God (our spirit to His) we have absolutely no impression that it is anyone other than God Himself we are communing with. We hear God. We feel the presence of God. And we see works that we just know is God doing the work.

That is the best we know of the Holy Spirit. It seems as God to us.

 

[Angelina]

As I understand it, personification is a figure of speech in which an inanimate object or abstraction is endowed with human qualities or abilities. Here are some biblical examples: Genesis 4:40, Psalms 73:9, 98:8...

None of the passages I have quoted [in the OP] show any personal characteristic or action that is impossible for a spiritual entity to possess or to perform. The usual signpost indicator of “personification” is absent.

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

Romans 8:26-34
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Corinthians 2:10
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

There is nothing in these descriptions that cannot be attributed or held true of an actual, nonphysical, spiritual being.

Nor can they be placed into the same category of "valleys that sing" Psalms. 65:13 or stones that cry out Habakkuk. 2:11.

John 15:26-27
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. And you also will bear witness”

In this example, Jesus says that the Spirit will bear witness just as the disciples who bear witness and all who believe. He describes the Holy Spirit as "the Helper" and speaks of his disciples in the same terms. The actions he attributes to the Holy Spirit in relation to his coming, being sent, proceeding forth, bearing witness etc, do not fit a mere personification of some ethereal aspect of God.

PS: Sorry I took so long in answering...just got back from a Santa Parade... ^_^

Added:

What I see then is that the word "spirit" is most often used as is the word "body" or "vessel". What we are seeing is that this "spirit" is a means of conveying God's holiness to us, explaining why we see the inflection dropped off of the word "spirit" at most places such as at Acts 2:38.

When the word "Spirit" [in capitals] is used in the bible, it usually refers to the Holy Spirit. The word spirit [lowercase] used in other places usually relate to our spirit, or evil spirits.
Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

It itself being no more than a medium with no nature of its own but what it derives directly of God. And that is of course because it issues from Him as his means of communicating to us.

If your premise were true, the bible would not have included our spirit in part of the hope that we "be preserved blameless" at the Lords coming.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessings!!!

 

[Vengle]

As I understand it, personification is a figure of speech in which an inanimate object or abstraction is endowed with human qualities or abilities. Here are some biblical examples: Genesis 4:40, Psalms 73:9, 98:8...

None of the passages I have quoted [in the OP] show any personal characteristic or action that is impossible for a spiritual entity to possess or to perform. The usual signpost indicator of “personification” is absent.

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

Romans 8:26-34
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Corinthians 2:10
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

There is nothing in these descriptions that cannot be attributed or held true of an actual, nonphysical, spiritual being.

Nor can they be placed into the same category of "valleys that sing" Psalms. 65:13 or stones that cry out Habakkuk. 2:11.

John 15:26-27
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. And you also will bear witness”

In this example, Jesus says that the Spirit will bear witness just as the disciples who bear witness and all who believe. He describes the Holy Spirit as "the Helper" and speaks of his disciples in the same terms. The actions he attributes to the Holy Spirit in relation to his coming, being sent, proceeding forth, bearing witness etc, do not fit a mere personification of some ethereal aspect of God.

PS: Sorry I took so long in answering...just got back from a Santa Parade... ^_^

Blessings!!!

That is a good point and it shows that the holy spirit is actually not a separate person but is essentially the person of God coming to us in spiritual form.

That is why Jesus did not use the holy spirit as one of his two witness bearers but named only John the Baptist and at John 5:37 said, "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."

The holy spirit is a manifestation of God. That is what your evidence points to and that is essentially what I said.

Quote: "If you have noticed, when we are in the spirit talking to God (our spirit to His) we have absolutely no impression that it is anyone other than God Himself we are communing with. We hear God. We feel the presence of God. And we see works that we just know is God doing the work.

That is the best we know of the Holy Spirit. It seems as God to us."

So then how do we preach in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit?

It is like saying that we do something in the name of the Present and in the name of the Vice-President and in the name of their Law.

We see both the Law of God and the Law of the love of Christ spoken in the scripture. There is no contradiction in that as a woman is bound to the law of her husband even when her husband is bound to the Law of God.

That just binds her both to her husband's law and to God's Law.

Romans 7:14a "For we know that the law is spiritual..."

And we know that the law is holy.

Romans 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good"


I probably should have mentioned that John represented the testimony of God's Law to the people showing them how it pointed to Christ. That is why the Law and the Prophets were until John as we are told at Luke 16:16

So we see there in John chapter 5 that Jesus excluded himself saying that if he bore witness to himself then his testimony would be untrue but then named only the Father and John the Baptist who as a priestly prophet of the Law spoke as that Law's voice, as his two witnesses.

 

[Angelina]

That is a good point and it shows that the holy spirit is actually not a separate person but is essentially the person of God coming to us in spiritual form.

God is Spirit [Capitals]and those who and those who worship Him must worship in spirit [lowercase] and truth.” John 4:24 so it does not surprise me that he "sent the Spirit [Capitals] of his Son into our hearts crying "Abba Father" Galatians 4:6.

That is why Jesus did not use the holy spirit as one of his two witness bearers but named only John the Baptist and at John 5:37 said, "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."

The bible says "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son." 1 John 5:9
1 John 5
And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

Are you a Jehovah Witness? They believe that the Holy Spirit is just a force. I also noted that you are writing the word "Holy Spirit" in lowercase letters even though the bible clearly writes the word "Holy Spirit in capitals...why is that? :huh:

Blessings!!!

 

[Vengle]

God is Spirit and those who and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24 so it does not surprise me that he sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts crying "Abba Father" Galatians 4:6.



The bible says "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son." 1 John 5:9
1 John 5
And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

Are you a Jehovah Witness? They believe that the Holy Spirit is just a force. I also noted that you are writing the word "Holy Spirit" in lowercase letters even though the bible clearly writes the word "Holy Spirit in capitals...why is that? :huh:

Blessings!!!

No, not a JW though a lot of people say that about me. :lol:

As for holy spirit not in caps that is just that the spell check does not auto do it on here as it does if I type things out in my Microsoft word program. See, the spell check capitalized Microsoft !!! :lol:

I often make it a point to cap certain He's and Him's when they refer to God but have not formed that habit with the Holy Spirit. If you comb through my writings on here you will see that sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.

Look at that last line of my own quote which I posted. I capped it there. Like paragraph 5 of that last post. i said, "That is the best we know of the Holy Spirit. It seems as God to us."

If you remember Jesus said, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

He also said, John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

The purpose of God's giving us the Holy Spirit is as a teacher. 1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

This is because God promised to write His Laws into our hearts. And that is why the Holy Spirit is as the testimony of that Law in us. The Holy Spirit is as a witness being done by the Law.

Jesus was able to say that as "being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets" and the same concept was summed up in John the Baptist as a living example to us.

But whose word is the Law? It is God's word. And it is often called the living word as it is alive as the ASV Bible notes in its translation of the word "quick": Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart."

That is how the Holy Spirit bears witness then, by the voice of the spirit of the Law of God. But I swear to me it is not distinguishable from God. And i guarantee I spend most of my time in the spirit communing with God. It is my favorite place to be. It is like being home to me and when I am not there I quickly run back there. I have learned to dwell there near constantly even while doing life's chores.

 

[Angelina]

If you remember Jesus said, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
He also said, John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

The purpose of God's giving us the Holy Spirit is as a teacher. 1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
This is because God promised to write His Laws into our hearts. And that is why the Holy Spirit is as the testimony of that Law in us. The Holy Spirit is as a witness being done by the Law.

What law are you speaking of here? The OT law had certain consequences if broken, but the Law of the Spirit sets us free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Jesus was able to say that as "being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets" and the same concept was summed up in John the Baptist as a living example to us.

The bible says that Jesus was the end of the law Romans 10:4. I understand that the Law and the prophets were all pointing to Yeshua HaMashiach. This indicates that a new covenant was about to surpass the old.

But whose word is the Law? It is God's word. And it is often called the living word as it is alive as the ASV Bible notes in its translation of the word "quick": Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart."

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

That is how the Holy Spirit bears witness then, by the voice of the spirit of the Law of God. But I swear to me it is not distinguishable from God.

That is because the three are one 1 John 5:7-8

I'm not sure why you posted these scriptures, however, thanks for the input. I am aware that the Holy Spirit teaches us the things pertaining to God and that the Law of God [which is the law of the Spirit] can be summed up in two commandments. Matthew 22:37-40
Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:9-11

Shalom!!!

 

[Vengle]

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing now Angela.

You asked, "What law are you speaking of here?"

Yet you posted that I had said, "This is because God promised to write His Laws into our hearts."

And you know enough of the scripture to know that is what Romans 2:15 says: "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)"

Surely you know that is the purpose of the New Covenant to accomplish that writing of the law of God in our hearts in fulfillment of OT prophecy?

Jeremiah 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

___________________________________________


I said, "Jesus was able to say that as "being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets" and the same concept was summed up in John the Baptist as a living example to us."

To which you replied, "The bible says that Jesus was the end of the law Romans 10:4. I understand that the Law and the prophets were all pointing to Yeshua HaMashiach. This indicates that a new covenant was about to surpass the old."

That is true and does not affect the validity of anything I said. I did not say the Law pointed to John the Baptist as that verse says. I said quite clearly in an earlier post that John explained to the people how that Law pointed to Christ. you did not retain that I said that because it bothers you that I even speak to you.

________________________________________________________

You said, "John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

Surely you know that means that Jesus is the embodiment of the Law of God as he lives by every word out of his Father's mouth? And so we cannot really write Jesus into our hearts without God's law is written in our hearts as as in his? And that we must become like him?

That is why Jesus said, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

John 14:24 'He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."

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You said, "I'm not sure why you posted these scriptures, however, thanks for the input. I am aware that the Holy Spirit teaches us the things pertaining to God and that the Law of God [which is the law of the Spirit] can be summed up in two commandments. Matthew 22:37-40
Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:9-11"

OK. Then do not try to understand if that is your wish.

Just believe that agape' love can be in us humans without having any knowledge of its laws.

_________________________________

Romans 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

That law of the Spirit of life is the love that dwells in and is shown by Christ toward his Father and his fellow.

Don't confuse it with the Old Law Covenant of sin and death just because it requires understanding it to really use it.

_______________________________________-

Would you prefer that I did not post to you any more?

 

[Angelina]

no Vengle...I am not just arguing for the sake of it,,,I needed to clarify what you mean't by "Law" since Jesus was the end of the OT Law and beginning of the new Covenant. I am confused with your direction in regards to the function of the Holy Spirit and this thread seems to be getting off track, which would defeat the whole purpose.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11

[sup]9[/sup] But as it is written:
“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
[sup]10[/sup] But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. [sup]11[/sup] For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

The Holy Spirit would have no reason to independently search the deep things of God if he were not a separate identity from the Father or the Son, however, we know that he is more than that...and with out his presence in our lives we would have no deposit guaranteeing our redemption. Ephesians 1:13

Blessings!!!

 

[Vengle]

no Vengle...I am not just arguing for the sake of it,,,I needed to clarify what you mean't by "Law" since Jesus was the end of the OT Law and beginning of the new Covenant. I am confused with your direction in regards to the function of the Holy Spirit and this tread is beginning to go off track, which would defeat the purpose entirely.

Blessings!!!

I suppose I am going the long way around just to try to show that it is not as important whether we believe the HS is a person as it is that we understand how it functions as a witness and that we understand the full purpose in its being given to us.

Many have the idea that because Jesus is God that the level of faithfulness he exhibited to us is unattainable to them in this life. But the reality is that they have not fully put on Christ until they attain that same level of faithfulness and there is much scripture which tells us that.

God made Jesus to be wonderful and beautiful in our eyes. Many take offense to my saying that as they think of Jesus as being by his very nature as God being that wonderful and beautiful. So they think they cannot ever in this life truly attain to his image for they see his wonder and beauty as unreachable. But that is not what an in depth look at that subject reveals. We are the spiritual house of God if we are in Christ and then what Solomon said applies to us in the image of Christ: 2 Chronicles 2:8-9 "Send me also cedar trees, fir trees, and algum trees, out of Lebanon: for I know that thy servants can skill to cut timber in Lebanon;
and, behold, my servants shall be with thy servants, Even to prepare me timber in abundance: for the house which I am about to build shall be wonderful great."

We are those "cedar trees, fir trees, and algum trees, out of Lebanon".

But not if how we believe works to stifle our attaining to the beauty of righteousness in Christ which is there by virtue of his being totally complete in doing according to the will of his Father, which is why it is said in scripture that God made him to be wonderful and beautiful.

It is an intentional contrast to Satan who was made beautiful by God only to corrupt that beauty.

And how we understand the HS can have a similar effect upon us.

The important issue is how we benefit from Christ and the Holy Spirit, regardless of what we see them to be in shallow terms of a name tag.

We cannot really afford to always be focused on arguing their correct identity in terms of name tags. We must focus on seeing what it is they do to help us and what we must do in appreciation of cooperation with it to benefit from it.

 

[Angelina]

Hi Vengle!
I agree that is does not matter whether you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person or not as I know that these things will be revealed to individual believers according to his will and perfect timing. My original post focused on the many facets of the Holy Spirits function as well, since we are living in these days where the Holy Spirit is prevalent in the lives of believers. I first heard the audible voice of the Lord was when I was young and knew that this voice was Jesus event though I was not learned nor did I have any biblical understanding. Based on personal experience, I know that this verse is true.
Galatians 4:6
6 And because you are sons,God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

I understand that the Holy Spirit is a person independent of the Father and the Son only in the sense that he [Jesus] has come down in another capacity. As the Son, he was obedient to his Father even unto death on the cross, on our behalf. As a great High Priest, he always intercedes on our behalf

Romans 8:34
Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Hebrews 7:24
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He [Jesus] is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them

also note:

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Shalom!!! :)

 

[Vengle]

Hi Vengle!
I agree that is does not matter whether you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person or not and know that these things will be revealed to individual believers according to his will and perfect timing. My original post focused on the many facets of the Holy Spirits function, since we are living in these days where the Holy Spirit is prevalent in the lives of believers. I first heard the audible voice of the Lord was when I was young and knew that this voice was Jesus event though I was not learned nor did I have any understanding of the bible. Based on personal experience, I know that this verse is true.
Galatians 4:6
6 And because you are sons,God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”

I understand that the Holy Spirit is a person independent of the Father and the Son only in the sense that he [Jesus] has come down in another capacity. As the Son, he was obedient to his Father even unto death on the cross, on our behalf. As a great High Priest, he always intercedes on our behalf

Romans 8:34
Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Hebrews 7:24
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He [Jesus] is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them

also note:

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Shalom!!! :)

Amen. :)

That is fascinating that it says the HS makes intersession for our groanings and also we know Christ does that. It is a priestly function.

That is a beautiful point.