Who Really, Are the Jews?

[Davy]

Yes sir, the Israel of God are those in the New covenant, at least I think that is what you mean. The assignment is quite different for those going to heaven however than what they had here.

Life gives us no other choice sir, we have to take the good with the bad, and long for the time when all will be good, and it is coming just as sure as Jehovah exists Dave.

Yep! ALL believers on Christ Jesus are now God's Israel, which was actually His Plan all along, since that name 'Israel' means those who overcome with God's help, and His promises to Abraham involved Abraham's Faith, and thus Paul said those of Faith are the children of Abraham and inherit with faithful Abraham (Galatians 3).

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yep! ALL believers on Christ Jesus are now God's Israel, which was actually His Plan all along, since that name 'Israel' means those who overcome with God's help, and His promises to Abraham involved Abraham's Faith, and thus Paul said those of Faith are the children of Abraham and inherit with faithful Abraham (Galatians 3).

Who are the other sheep that are not of that fold Dave?

 

[Taken]

Who Really, Are the Jews?
OP ^

The natural offspring of Judah.
Judah was the natural offspring of Jacob & Leah.
Judah was appointed and received Land.
Judah’s land was called Judah.
Judah’s offspring were called Jews.

Judah’s wife, was a Canaanite woman, named Shuah.
Judah and Shuah had three sons: the order;
1) Er
2) Onan
3) Shelah

Law of Moses, called Mosaic Law...over passage of time, became called Jewish Law, Jewish Religion, denoting a person who is under Mosaic Law, believes Mosaic Law, obeys Mosaic Law.

Jew...over passage of time, became a description that men apply to themselves, as having been, or having to their knowledge, a direct descendent of any of the Twelve Tribes...

The Twelve Tribes, ie 12 sons of Jacob.
Jacobs 12 sons were offspring of Jacob & his two wives...his two wives handmaidens.
Jacobs two wives were sisters (Leah and Rachel).
Of Jacobs 12 sons, some were full brothers, some were half brothers.

Jacob & Leah; (sons)
Rueben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun

~ (sons of) Jacob & Zilpah (Leah’s handmaiden)
Gad, Asher

Jacob & Rachel; (sons)
Joseph, Benjamin

~ (sons of) Jacob & Bilhah (Rachel’s handmaiden)
Dan, Naphtali

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

In Christ Jesus there is no Jew or Gentile.
I think it is best for a Christian to ignore anyone's Jewish heritage. Let the world define things like that.

Consider the sin of partiality, also:
When someone, like Dr. Michael Brown, states he 'is a Jewish believer in Jesus', he is teaching partiality.

Jesus was a Jew, and He will sit on David's throne, which happens to be a Jewish throne. It is neither biblical nor wise to say "Christians should forget about anyone's Jewish heritage" when salvation is of the Jews(Jhn 4:22). And according to Eze. 39:27-28, God is going to make Himself known to the rest of the world through the Israelites, including the Jews. The reason why there are a multitude of prophetic passages that concern those people is because the Jews have a huge part to play in the rest of the world being saved.

 

[Davy]

Who are the other sheep that are not of that fold Dave?

Isa 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
KJV

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Jesus was a Jew, and He will sit on David's throne, which happens to be a Jewish throne. It is neither biblical nor wise to say "Christians should forget about anyone's Jewish heritage" when salvation is of the Jews(Jhn 4:22). And according to Eze. 39:27-28, God is going to make Himself known to the rest of the world through the Israelites, including the Jews. The reason why there are a multitude of prophetic passages that concern those people is because the Jews have a huge part to play in the rest of the world being saved.

Sounds like someone who does not understand the History !
Jesus came you know !
The Jews of today are not worthy at all.
Only Jesus saves in fact !
The Jews could never save themselves. they are lead by this world in fact, so what good are such as that regardless.

When Jesus came some Jews had faith in him and the reason why was because they believed in Holy Moses, that's the key to who them Jews were ? the rest of the Jews were not worthy at all of God, for they were not His !

The only worthy Jews in the day were Jesus disciples and when Jesus went to Heaven, it was then that the scales fell from their eyes and they could see clearly who Christ Jesus is in fact, they were all born again in fact and the first Christians in fact ! Not to mention the Goyim were not Christians at all !
The First Christians were Jews !
The Goyim were not the first Christians at all in fact ! So why do people believe such rubbish that it was the Goyim who took up Christianity first ? so people think that the Jews had nothing to do with Christianity ? well they were the true Israel of God in fact ! and it's this people who are forgotten in History in fact and nowadays some total nonsense perception of Jews is cast forward, that is a total deception in regards the works of creating delusions, of a bastard so called Jews ! who are not worthy of Judaism at all ! they are not worthy of the title Israel at all, they are not worthy of Holy Moses at all in fact !

Not to mention true Christianity has been undermined for many years from within and out 24/7 with the most aggressive and cunning workings of the Devil in leading people astray !

If one was to go back in time of our forefathers of the 1900's say and back, one would be outraged at what has become of Christianity nowadays. Not to mention to see idiots waving a flag for Anti-Christ dimwits ! who they think will save them ? This type of Anti-Christ will kill you all, just as Jesus said of them ! and who they were truly of ! their father who was a murder from the beginning and so forth in fact. that's something that any true Christian knows in fact.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Isa 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
KJV

Yes sir, now are you able to distinguish them today, who are the Israelites, and who are the Gentiles?

 

[Davy]

Yes sir, now are you able to distinguish them today, who are the Israelites, and who are the Gentiles?

No one today can be 100% sure which of the ten tribes one is born from, except maybe the royal families. (That doesn't apply to the Jews, because per history they did not lose their heritage as part of Israel when they were scattered.) Yet there is enough evidence, Biblical and secular, that the majority of the ten tribes of Israel that went into captivity to Assyria and the land of the Medes, eventually left the east, and migrated westward, under different names they acquired by their Assyrian captors, and they kept their Baal worship they brought with them, but... in those new lands 'some' of them kept their old heritage as part of old Israel (again most likely royal families):

From The Scottish Declaration of Arbroath (circa 1320)
The Declaration of Arbroath | National Records of Scotland

"Most Holy Father, we know and from the chronicles and books of the
ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots,
has been graced with widespread renown. It journeyed from Greater
Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and
dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage peoples,
but nowhere could it be subdued by any people, however barbarous.
Thence it came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed
the Red Sea, to its home in the west where it still lives today. The Britons it
first drove out, the Picts it utterly destroyed, and, even though very often
assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, it took possession
of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the histories
of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all servitude ever since.
In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of
their own royal stock, the line unbroken by a single foreigner."

Old Spain is unique in the history of the Isles because of its old connection of the Milesians (from Scythia) in Spain that migrated to the Isles and became Ireland's and Scotland's early kings coronated standing on top, or next to a particular stone. That is who the above Declaration is pointing to when speaking of those who "dwelt for a long course of time in Spain". Is it any wonder then why Apostle Paul wanted to visit brethren in Spain? (Romans 15:24)

 

[theefaith]

Those who rejected Christ and Christ rejected them!

Matt 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

[JunChosen]

Who Really, Are the Jews?
I believe all those that God promised to Abraham that he will be the father of many nations. These are they that God told Abraham to be circumcised as an outward sign. They are also the people that came out from Egypt and lived in the promised land Canaan which today is Jerusalem? In short, these are the Jews of the Old Testament.

In the New Testament, the sign is physical water baptism.

Today, however a Jew is one that Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, described in Romans 2:28-29:
28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Robert Gwin]

No one today can be 100% sure which of the ten tribes one is born from, except maybe the royal families. (That doesn't apply to the Jews, because per history they did not lose their heritage as part of Israel when they were scattered.) Yet there is enough evidence, Biblical and secular, that the majority of the ten tribes of Israel that went into captivity to Assyria and the land of the Medes, eventually left the east, and migrated westward, under different names they acquired by their Assyrian captors, and they kept their Baal worship they brought with them, but... in those new lands 'some' of them kept their old heritage as part of old Israel (again most likely royal families):

From The Scottish Declaration of Arbroath (circa 1320)
The Declaration of Arbroath | National Records of Scotland

"Most Holy Father, we know and from the chronicles and books of the
ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots,
has been graced with widespread renown. It journeyed from Greater
Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and
dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage peoples,
but nowhere could it be subdued by any people, however barbarous.
Thence it came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed
the Red Sea, to its home in the west where it still lives today. The Britons it
first drove out, the Picts it utterly destroyed, and, even though very often
assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, it took possession
of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the histories
of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all servitude ever since.
In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of
their own royal stock, the line unbroken by a single foreigner."

Old Spain is unique in the history of the Isles because of its old connection of the Milesians (from Scythia) in Spain that migrated to the Isles and became Ireland's and Scotland's early kings coronated standing on top, or next to a particular stone. That is who the above Declaration is pointing to when speaking of those who "dwelt for a long course of time in Spain". Is it any wonder then why Apostle Paul wanted to visit brethren in Spain? (Romans 15:24)

I agree Davy, none of us can be absolutely sure who they are, but we certainly are able to identify the Gentiles, the other sheep that is in Jesus' fold. In fact he told us we would be able to identify them by their fruits. The little flock of Israelites will have the same fruits, but it is impossible for us to make the call if they are actually of the Israel of God, or simply claiming to be. I do know that I am not one.

 

[JunChosen]

but it is impossible for us to make the call if they are actually of the Israel of God, or simply claiming to be. I do know that I am not one.

I agree! You will never be one of the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

 

[Davy]

I agree Davy, none of us can be absolutely sure who they are, but we certainly are able to identify the Gentiles, the other sheep that is in Jesus' fold. In fact he told us we would be able to identify them by their fruits. The little flock of Israelites will have the same fruits, but it is impossible for us to make the call if they are actually of the Israel of God, or simply claiming to be. I do know that I am not one.

Yet you go a little too far with your assumptions about the seed of lost Israel, because to God they are not lost. That is why there is so much Bible prophecy about their future return, and also what would happen to them after their scattering (Book of Hosea).

And Apostle Paul quoted from both Hosea and Isaiah about their future return, ALONG with believing Gentiles (see Romans 9). Paul literally was pointing to The Gospel having gone to the ten scattered tribes among the Gentiles, preaching that to Roman believers.

God's Israel is about those of Faith, like faithful Abraham. And it still includes the seed of Israel that are in that Faith, not just Gentile believers. And the fact that Bible prophecy shows scattered Israel will be gathered back to the holy land by which God promised their fathers, and even that Israel will never cease from being a nation before God, that means no one can change what God has promised them specifically.

It also means, the Promises to Israel which the seed of Israel inherited all the way from God's promises to Abraham, will NOT leave Ephraim upon whom God's Birthright finally wound upon, and is still with the seed of Ephraim today.

So Apostle Paul was correct that 'involving Christ's Salvation', there is no difference between Jew (Israelite) or Gentile, for all are 'one' in Christ Jesus. But Paul NEVER inferred an end to God's promises to the 'seed' of Israel. As a matter of fact, in Ephesians 2, Apostle Paul claimed that believing Gentiles have now come under those Promises and covenants God gave to the seed of Israel, Paul using the label "commonwealth of Israel".

And Lord Jesus Himself showed His 12 Apostles they would each sit upon a throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom.

So some preachers in some pulpits today can preach that all those promises to the seed are gone, but they go too far outside of God's Word when they preach such falseness.

 

[JunChosen]

But Paul NEVER inferred an end to God's promises to the 'seed' of Israel

True. But the "seed" you speak of are the seed [as many] of Israel, correct?
However, note that Paul said "seed" and NOT as many or all. Galatians 3:16 reads:
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed [singular], which is Christ."
Furthermore, as a nation, Israel will NEVER recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

True. But the "seed" you speak of are the seed [as many] of Israel, correct?
However, note that Paul said "seed" and NOT as many or all. Galatians 3:16 reads:
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed [singular], which is Christ."
Furthermore, as a nation, Israel will NEVER recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

It is Only Israel in fact that only truly recognises Jesus Christ in fact !

One must have a handle on what Israel means !

Now one should look to the Bible for such a handle on the real issue of Israel, but the worldly only know this world, so they claim that it's the Land that is Israel ? But the Bible and the Holy Spirit is another thing as to ones worldly point of view.

The Bible first talks about one man who becomes Israel ? funny that all religions nowadays will run about freaking out to shut anyone up on this subject ?
They do not want you to know who Jacob really is or who or why he became in fact !
So you will not have a handle on the reality of the gravity on the subject that is truly at hand ? because it all kicks off with why Jacob became Israel !
This is the key point that all should understand in fact, because if you don't you could be mislead ?
Not to mention the next time that one is called Israel, is with a dude called Nathaniel in fact and this must be understood by anyone who is worthy of being a born again Christian ?

Yes Nathaniel is a Key point that must be understood !
Now it was Jesus who said of him that he was a true Israelite in fact !

Ok so we have 2 only people that one was called Israel by a Angel ? and the next is called such by Jesus ? how interesting !

Now one must understand all that the Bible says that Jesus says to Nathaniel ! Look it all up ! such a most interesting subject in the Bible, because it's a Key point that any worthy Christian should understand, but the carnal religious would not understand the issue and just dismiss Nathaniel in all this and also they would not have a clue what or why Jesus called him Israel !

So you see the religious will not serve God at all, they never did, because they do not know God ! they serve this world and it's gods for they are under delusions and deceptions of this world.

Christ Jesus calls people out of this world in fact and into the Kingdom of God !

The Kingdom of God is Israel and the key point in understanding this is with starting to understand why Jacob was given the name Israel and who Nathaniel was given the name, then you may understand God in reading the Bible.

So who is it that wants to lead you to believe in this world ? with total nonsense like Israel is a worldly State ?
One must understand why God gave the Jews the Law and who was to come ? Grace is the Key the Kingdom of God for all. for without the Biblical understanding of Grace, no one can help you or this world in fact. Jesus came and gave all that we need, but one must pick it up ! and hold it up high ! such is the most important thing in ones life above all ! That's Christ Jesus ! We live and breath Christ Jesus ! That's is what being a true Israelite is all about !
Jesus said of Nathaniel what was to be seen ? why did Jesus say such to him ? well he knew that he was worthy of a true Israelite in fact ! Jesus said so ! So it's a outright Fact that must be taken totally seriously. It's a major issue that is a Key on the subject of what is Israel in fact.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I agree! You will never be one of the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

I am actually happy about that, although if I was called I would not turn it down. But in my opinion since we were made for the earth, I would honestly prefer to keep it that way. One thing is for certain, both groups will reap the ultimate happiness when Jehovah opens His hand and satisfies the desire of every living thing sir Ps 145:16

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yet you go a little too far with your assumptions about the seed of lost Israel, because to God they are not lost. That is why there is so much Bible prophecy about their future return, and also what would happen to them after their scattering (Book of Hosea).

And Apostle Paul quoted from both Hosea and Isaiah about their future return, ALONG with believing Gentiles (see Romans 9). Paul literally was pointing to The Gospel having gone to the ten scattered tribes among the Gentiles, preaching that to Roman believers.

God's Israel is about those of Faith, like faithful Abraham. And it still includes the seed of Israel that are in that Faith, not just Gentile believers. And the fact that Bible prophecy shows scattered Israel will be gathered back to the holy land by which God promised their fathers, and even that Israel will never cease from being a nation before God, that means no one can change what God has promised them specifically.

It also means, the Promises to Israel which the seed of Israel inherited all the way from God's promises to Abraham, will NOT leave Ephraim upon whom God's Birthright finally wound upon, and is still with the seed of Ephraim today.

So Apostle Paul was correct that 'involving Christ's Salvation', there is no difference between Jew (Israelite) or Gentile, for all are 'one' in Christ Jesus. But Paul NEVER inferred an end to God's promises to the 'seed' of Israel. As a matter of fact, in Ephesians 2, Apostle Paul claimed that believing Gentiles have now come under those Promises and covenants God gave to the seed of Israel, Paul using the label "commonwealth of Israel".

And Lord Jesus Himself showed His 12 Apostles they would each sit upon a throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom.

So some preachers in some pulpits today can preach that all those promises to the seed are gone, but they go too far outside of God's Word when they preach such falseness.

Of course God knows who they are sir, we were talking about us being able to identify them. I know I certainly am not able to, nor is anyone I know. I dare say that many of the ones that claim to be most of us would think they are not. I have met 2 who claim to be personally and I question both of them, one already proved me correct in my assumptions, the other only time will tell. I hope she is, but I don't have any idea at all, but sadly even though I believe she is a very loving Christian, I still do not believe she is one.

 

[theefaith]

Gal 4:
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[JunChosen]

The Kingdom of God is Israel and the key point in understanding this is with starting to understand why Jacob was given the name Israel and who Nathaniel was given the name, then you may understand God in reading the Bible.

So who is it that wants to lead you to believe in this world ? with total nonsense like Israel is a worldly State ?
One must understand why God gave the Jews the Law and who was to come ? Grace is the Key the Kingdom of God for all. for without the Biblical understanding of Grace, no one can help you or this world in fact.

Indeed, you and I will read/interpret Scripture differently because you read the Bible like it's an ordinary book whereas, on the other hand, I read and interpret Holy Writ that: God spoke in parables and without a parable did He not speak to them [Mark 4:34]. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
11) And he [Jesus] said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12) That seeing they may see, and not perceive;; and hearing they may hear, and not understand....

Concerning Nathaniel, John 1:47-48 reads:
47) Jesus saw Nathaniel coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48) Nathaniel saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.

Note, that Jesus called Nathaniel a "true Israelite," that is, to say a "true believer," just as the term "fig tree" a synonym for "Israel."

Mark 13:28-29 reads:
28) Now learn the parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29) So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

If you do not understand the above please feel free to ask and we'll reason together.

To God Be The Glory

 

[theefaith]

The church is the new covenant
New Israel

Prophecy of the new covenant church fulfilled in the apostolic union with Christ!

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Christ the king!

The king of kings!

Christ is King of Glory!

Kingdom established by God!
Isa 2:2
Dan 2: 44
Micah 4:1

One, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic! And all nations and all people shall flow into it! All must submit and obey the king of glory!

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4: 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Holy mother church)