Who saw it? When did they see it?

[Muna]

I was trying in my response to get the conversation back on the topic presented in the OP.

I do remember you. It’s good to see you back and posting again.

Thanks for clarifying that Matthias, and thanks good to be back

 

[Jay Ross]

As for the timing, Jesus said before Pilate, "My kingdom is..." (John 18:36). Not, will be, but "is."

Where was the Kingdom that Jesus was speaking of when He was standing before Pilate? Was He not speaking of the heavenly Kingdom where He would receive God's Everlasting Kingdom here on the earth?

So, your answer is based upon the wrong timing when Jesus was speaking with Pilate.

 

[Jay Ross]

Which death is this referring to?

which was replied with

The first death.

Which, IMHO, is missing the point of the verse quoted in the OP.

 

[ScottA]

Where was the Kingdom that Jesus was speaking of when He was standing before Pilate? Was He not speaking of the heavenly Kingdom where He would receive God's Everlasting Kingdom here on the earth?

So, your answer is based upon the wrong timing when Jesus was speaking with Pilate.

No.

Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

 

[Lambano]

Perhaps it's time to discuss what we think the "Kingdom of G_d" is, because that will affect how we interpret the passage. Is the Kingdom of God -

Now? Or yet to come? Or, in a sense, both?

Is the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth? Or actually in Heaven?

 

[Lambano]

2. With this faulty understanding of the text, it seems as if this is a clear failed prophecy of Jesus in that “his kingdom” hasn’t yet “come” and in that all of the people to whom he was then speaking are long dead.

Yep. We may be forced to either redefine what we think Jesus meant by the "Kingdom of God", or redefine what we think Jesus meant by "death" in this passage. Or both.

 

[Lambano]

So far the solutions include

• The preterist solution - the Kingdom was inaugurated in 70AD with the destruction of the temple and continues on in the "Church Age".
• The contextual solution - Jesus was referring to the soon-to-come Transfiguration as a preview of what the Kingdom will look like.
• The partially-realized Kingdom solution: The Kingdom started with Jesus's resurrection and include all who acknowledge Jesus as king, but whose full realization is yet to come. Similar to the preterist solution, but with emphasis on the Resurrection.
• The second death solution: Jesus was talking about the Last Judgement prior to the implementation of the New Heavens and New Earth, depending on your eschatology. Similar to the contextual solution in Matthew and Luke; less so in Mark.

Did I miss any?

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

I have always wondered about this also, you have definately given me something to consider. Let me ask you something concerning tasting verses seeing death? Is there a difference betcause there seems to be, I have some things written out a few ways, but here is a brief example, these three verses here...


Psalm 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

However, then there is this one

Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

What are your thoughts on how these might apply

Hi, Truly.

There are times when the same terminology is used in the Bible (like "begotten," for example), but the intended meanings are different, and that is why context is so important. In this response, I will only focus upon what Jesus said in John 8:51.

Jhn 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

What type of "death" was Jesus speaking of here?

Was he speaking of physical death?

Was he speaking of what we might call "spiritual death" or being "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13)?

Was he speaking of what the Bible calls "the second death" (Rev. 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21:8)?

Obviously, he was speaking of "the second death."

How can I/we be sure of the same?

Easily.

For one thing, we can compare what Jesus said here to what he later said to Martha.

Jhn 11:21
Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
Jhn 11:22
But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
Jhn 11:23
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Jhn 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jhn 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jhn 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Jesus told Martha that although believers in him were dead, as in having partaken of physical death, they yet would live, and never die. The "never die" part, in context, pertains to the resurrection from the dead, and this is what we read about it in the book of Revelation.

Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The saints of God will be partakers of "the first resurrection," which coincides with the time of Christ's second coming (he only comes twice - Heb. 9:27-28), and "on such the second death hath no power." THIS is the "death" that Jesus was speaking of in John 8:51.

With the exception of the saints who will still be alive at the second coming of Jesus (1 Thes. 4:15-17), all Christians will eventually partake of physical death, so Jesus could not have been talking about physical death in John 8:51. The only other options are "spiritual death,' as in being "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13), and what the Bible calls "the second death" (Rev. 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21;8). When it comes to "spiritual death," everyone has partaken of the same, so we can easily remove that from the list of what Jesus intended to convey. That only leaves us with "the second death," and no Christian will partake of the same, so it is a perfect match.

Lord willing, I will add another post later today that will bring even more clarity to this truth.

 

[Muna]

Hi, Truly.

There are times when the same terminology is used in the Bible (like "begotten," for example), but the intended meanings are different, and that is why context is so important. In this response, I will only focus upon what Jesus said in John 8:51.

Jhn 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

What type of "death" was Jesus speaking of here?

Was he speaking of physical death?

Was he speaking of what we might call "spiritual death" or being "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13)?

Was he speaking of what the Bible calls "the second death" (Rev. 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21:8)?

Obviously, he was speaking of "the second death."

How can I/we be sure of the same?

Easily.

For one thing, we can compare what Jesus said here to what he later said to Martha.

Jhn 11:21
Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
Jhn 11:22
But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
Jhn 11:23
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Jhn 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jhn 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jhn 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Jesus told Martha that although believers in him were dead, as in having partaken of physical death, they yet would live, and never die. The "never die" part, in context, pertains to the resurrection from the dead, and this is what we read about it in the book of Revelation.

Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The saints of God will be partakers of "the first resurrection," which coincides with the time of Christ's second coming (he only comes twice - Heb. 9:27-28), and "on such the second death hath no power." THIS is the "death" that Jesus was speaking of in John 8:51.

With the exception of the saints who will still be alive at the second coming of Jesus (1 Thes. 4:15-17), all Christians will eventually partake of physical death, so Jesus could not have been talking about physical death in John 8:51. The only other options are "spiritual death,' as in being "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13), and what the Bible calls "the second death" (Rev. 2:11, 20:6, 14, 21;8). When it comes to "spiritual death," everyone has partaken of the same, so we can easily remove that from the list of what Jesus intended to convey. That only leaves us with "the second death," and no Christian will partake of the same, so it is a perfect match.

Lord willing, I will add another post later today that will bring even more clarity to this truth.

Hey Names! (Can I call you Names for short?)

Thank you for your reply, appreciate the time you have taken to do so.

The last enemy to be destroyed is death G2288 (thanatos) right?

Doesnt Rev 20:13 show three places where the dead are present? For example

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death G2288 and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Like why arent the dead just dead, why are the dead shown to be located in the Sea, and in death and in hell (or hades)?

Then it says,

Rev 20:14 And death G2288 and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death. G2288

And that is after the dead are delivered up out of the Sea, and out of death and out of hell/hades (Which is what? three locations?).

That just seems so odd to me.

For example, if a freind you know passed away (being dead) why is the Sea, death and hell listed as places where the dead are.

Like, can you die in boat accident and be in hell/hades or no, you are in the sea, see how that makes no sense to me? I am having a hard time getting my brain around why these are listed together.

Like why is the sea (a physical place on earth) even mentioned alongside with what we might consider a spiritual place or places/states/afterlife abodes?

That always seemed strange to me.

And so along with death itself (where the actual dead abide) are first delivered up out of it, and death itself (which contained the dead) is cast into the lake of fire (which is the second death) which appears to be the death of the abode of the dead, or the death of death (since it is cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death). Does that sound correct?

And so with that death destroyed (where the dead themselves were delivered up out of) is destroyed, there is no more death (as there is no more hell/ hades).

And so with death destroyed, the dead themselves, or whosoever was not found in the book of life are cast into the same place.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So the dead are in a place called death and that place called death is destroyed in what is called the second death.

I'm thinking outloud I guess, I don't mean to put you on the spot, am I catching this correctly according to your understanding of the same? Anyone can chime in if they would like.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

Hey Names! (Can I call you Names for short?)

Thank you for your reply, appreciate the time you have taken to do so.

The last enemy to be destroyed is death G2288 (thanatos) right?

Doesnt Rev 20:13 show three places where the dead are present? For example

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death G2288 and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Like why arent the dead just dead, why are the dead shown to be located in the Sea, and in death and in hell (or hades)?

Then it says,

Rev 20:14 And death G2288 and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death. G2288

And that is after the dead are delivered up out of the Sea, and out of death and out of hell/hades (Which is what? three locations?).

That just seems so odd to me.

For example, if a freind you know passed away (being dead) why is the Sea, death and hell listed as places where the dead are.

Like, can you die in boat accident and be in hell/hades or no, you are in the sea, see how that makes no sense to me? I am having a hard time getting my brain around why these are listed together.

Like why is the sea (a physical place on earth) even mentioned alongside with what we might consider a spiritual place or places/states/afterlife abodes?

That always seemed strange to me.

And so along with death itself (where the actual dead abide) are first delivered up out of it, and death itself (which contained the dead) is cast into the lake of fire (which is the second death) which appears to be the death of the abode of the dead, or the death of death (since it is cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death). Does that sound correct?

And so with that death destroyed (where the dead themselves were delivered up out of) is destroyed, there is no more death (as there is no more hell/ hades).

And so with death destroyed, the dead themselves, or whosoever was not found in the book of life are cast into the same place.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So the dead are in a place called death and that place called death is destroyed in what is called the second death.

I'm thinking outloud I guess, I don't mean to put you on the spot, am I catching this correctly according to your understanding of the same? Anyone can chime in if they would like.

I cannot adequately answer your question because this is something that I have never really studied or thought about myself. I can, however, offer you a little insight, but that will probably only generate more questions for you while providing no real answers.

Earlier in the book of Revelation, Jesus said:

Rev 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell G86 and of death.

Here, Jesus seemingly described "hell" (hades) and "death" as places.

However, later on in the same book of Revelation, we read this about "death" and "hell" (hades):

Rev 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell G86 followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Here, "death" and "hell" (hades) seem to be personified.

Like I said, this is not something that I have personally studied in the past, so I cannot really answer your question at this point in time. If I gain any additional insight into this, then I will be sure to share it with you. In the interim, you might want to start a separate thread on this so this thread doesn't depart from its original intent.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

Hey Names! (Can I call you Names for short?)

Honestly, I feel a bit awkward with that because my username pertains to Jesus Christ, and not to me. I prefer to draw attention to him, and not to myself.

 

[Muna]

I cannot adequately answer your question because this is something that I have never really studied or thought about myself. I can, however, offer you a little insight, but that will probably only generate more questions for you while providing no real answers.

Earlier in the book of Revelation, Jesus said:

Rev 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell G86 and of death.

Here, Jesus seemingly described "hell" (hades) and "death" as places.

However, later on in the same book of Revelation, we read this about "death" and "hell" (hades):

Rev 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell G86 followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Here, "death" and "hell" (hades) seem to be personified.

Like I said, this is not something that I have personally studied in the past, so I cannot really answer your question at this point in time. If I gain any additional insight into this, then I will be sure to share it with you. In the interim, you might want to start a separate thread on this so this thread doesn't depart from its original intent.

Yes I noticed that as well, and you are not introducing anymore questions than I currently have, I just figured if I took it where all three were as concerning the dead it could help get my brain around a couple of things.

I think even Job personified the sea too

Job 28:14 The depth saith, It is not in me: and the sea saith, It is not with me.

No worries, I just thought I would throw that out there

 

[Muna]

Honestly, I feel a bit awkward with that because my username pertains to Jesus Christ, and not to me. I prefer to draw attention to him, and not to myself.

No problem, I would only be addressing you and not Jesus is why I asked, and you will always do a wonderful job drawing others attention to him when you use his words to respond, which I see you do try and do.

 

[ScottA]

Perhaps it's time to discuss what we think the "Kingdom of G_d" is, because that will affect how we interpret the passage. Is the Kingdom of God -

Now? Or yet to come? Or, in a sense, both?

Is the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth? Or actually in Heaven?

The kingdom of God is the same as the kingdom of heaven, although some characteristics cause them to be referred to differently at different times. Both are simply where God is. The reason or need of "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven", was because mankind had been sent out of the presence of God.

When Jesus came saying, "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you" (Matthew 12:28), that time of being out of God's presence ended. That is what He "finished." The world then was subject to God's consuming fire. Israel was then raised up with Christ before the throne of God, while "we who are alive and remain" (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) of the church among the gentiles "were" also crucified and raised up with Christ "but each one in his own order" (1 Corinthians 15:23) only separated by the illusion of times, which were "a time, times, and half a time" (Daniel 7:25) divided by God, dividing the light from the darkness, the evening and the morning, day by day.

As for the characteristic difference between the kingdom of God and heaven, it is like the saying, "You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country our to the boy." But in the case of the kingdom, only heaven refers to the boy as if he is not out of the country, but in the country, as opposed to remaining out of it for the times appointed. In this way, God has accounted for our being "of Him" and even "with Him" while still remaining in the world--a circumstance unique to those born again of the spirit of God, left in the world for the spreading of the gospel unto the gentiles, until the times are fulfilled.

 

[ScottA]

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Mat. 16:27-28)

This portion of scripture has perplexed many Christians for many, many years, and, quite frankly, it greatly perplexed me during the early years of my own Christian walk. The seeming problems with the passage are as follows:

1. At first glance, it appears that Jesus was saying that some of the people to whom he was then speaking approximately 2000 years ago wouldn’t physically die or “taste death” until “they saw the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

2. With this faulty understanding of the text, it seems as if this is a clear failed prophecy of Jesus in that “his kingdom” hasn’t yet “come” and in that all of the people to whom he was then speaking are long dead.

I’ve personally had Muslims and atheists throw this portion of scripture in my face in order to show an alleged failed prophecy in the Bible. There are also non-believing Jews and others who regularly cite this portion of scripture as they attempt to attack the overall veracity of the New Testament.

Many professing Christians, both now and in the past, have taken a very faulty stance while attempting to uphold the veracity of this portion of scripture. They’ve claimed that the people to whom Jesus was then speaking did in fact “see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” in that the very next thing that we read of in Matthew’s account is Jesus’ transfiguration. In other words, allegedly, when Jesus was transfigured before Peter, James and John, they actually saw him “coming in his kingdom” before they physically died or before they “tasted of death” (Mat. 16:28). The problem with this interpretation is that Jesus was in no way, shape, or form referring to his transfiguration when he uttered this prophecy.

How can I (we) be so sure?

Let’s ask ourselves the following questions:

1. Did “the Son of man come in the glory of his Father with his angels” (Mat. 16:27) when he was transfigured?

Of course, the correct answer to this question is no, he did not. Jesus was already here, so he definitely didn’t “come” at that time. Contextually, Jesus was referring to his second coming.

2. Did Jesus “reward every man according to his works” (Mat. 16:27) when he was transfigured?

Again, the correct answer to this question is no, he did not. Jesus won’t “reward every man according to his works” until the time of his second coming:

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” (Rev. 22:12)

3. Did “the Son of man come in his kingdom” (Mat. 16:28) when he was transfigured?

Yet again, the correct answer to this question is no, he did not. Once more, Jesus didn’t “come” at that time in that he was already here. He won’t “come in his kingdom” until the time of his second coming.

Seeing how the actual timeframe of which Jesus spoke was the timeframe after his second coming, who are those who will “taste of death” at that time?

I believe that the proper answer to this question is found here:

“And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Rev. 20:1-15)

When “the thousand years are finished” (Rev. 20:5), or “when the thousand years are expired” (Rev. 20:7), or after Christ’s 1000 year or Millennial Reign is completed, Satan will be loosed out of his prison, and he will lead one final rebellion against God. After God thwarts this rebellion by consuming the rebels with fire from heaven, the Great White Throne Judgment of Christ will begin. At that time, there will be the second resurrection or “the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29) that Jesus warned about. All among the resurrected dead whose names are not found written in the book of life shall be cast into the lake of fire at that point in time. This is the second death, which is the “death” that Jesus was referring to in Matthew 16:27-28, and it will be at that time, or after Christ returns, that the unbelievers, of whom Jesus actually spoke, shall truly “taste of death.”

Very good! However, it does not fully address what actually occurred.

The error and the confusion regarding the Matthew 16:27-28 passage, is it does not account for what was and is unseen. The common assumption, the stumbling block--is what actually did occur in spirit, according to what Jesus had described, saying, "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:8). Meaning, not visible with eyes of flesh. Yet, not seeing the things that Jesus described that He said would occur, literally to some living and dying at that time 2,000 years ago--by their unbelief, a new doctrine of the someday return of Christ--the "lie" causing "strong delusion" foretold by Paul, took hold, allowing the "false teachers" spoken of by Peter, to enter into the early church.

And the rest is history--Christian history, unfortunately.

What actually occurred then (THEN, at that time), was the spiritual fulfilment just as Jesus had stated, unbeknownst to those who then also went their own way. The subject of which is as big as the error, referred to as "great apostacy."

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

I think even Job personified the sea too

Job 28:14 The depth saith, It is not in me: and the sea saith, It is not with me.It

Job personified death and destruction, too.

Job 28:22
Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.

It is interesting to note that the Hebrew word that was translated into English here as "destruction" is "'ăḇadôn."

H11 - 'ăḇadôn - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

H11 - אֲבַדּוֹן ʼăbaddôwn, ab-ad-done'; intensive from ; abstract, a perishing; concrete, Hades:—destruction.

www.blueletterbible.org

If that word sounds familiar, then it is because it is the name of the angel of the bottomless pit.

Rev 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

It is the same exact word in the Hebrew.

G3 - abaddōn - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

G3 - Ἀβαδδών Abaddṓn, ab-ad-dohn'; of Hebrew origin []; a destroying angel:—Abaddon.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Lambano]

It is interesting to note that the Hebrew word that was translated into English here as "destruction" is "'ăḇadôn."
If that word sounds familiar, then it is because it is the name of the angel of the bottomless pit.

Rev 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

"Abaddon" is the ancient Hebrew concept that became what we call "Hell". The place of Destruction. The bottomless pit. The Greek word in the Septuagint and in the New Testament is "apoleia".

So, in Acts 8:20 when Peter says to Simon the Sorcerer "May you and your silver go into apoleia together!" (literal translation of the Greek), he's telling Simon to go to Hell and take his money with him. Unfortunately, most English translators feel they need to clean up Peter's language and translate apoleia as a verb instead of as the noun used in the actual text.

 

[Muna]

Job personified death and destruction, too.

Job 28:22
Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.

It is interesting to note that the Hebrew word that was translated into English here as "destruction" is "'ăḇadôn."

H11 - 'ăḇadôn - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

H11 - אֲבַדּוֹן ʼăbaddôwn, ab-ad-done'; intensive from ; abstract, a perishing; concrete, Hades:—destruction.

www.blueletterbible.org

If that word sounds familiar, then it is because it is the name of the angel of the bottomless pit.

Rev 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

It is the same exact word in the Hebrew.

G3 - abaddōn - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

G3 - Ἀβαδδών Abaddṓn, ab-ad-dohn'; of Hebrew origin []; a destroying angel:—Abaddon.

www.blueletterbible.org

I can't agree with you more, you can truly keep linking things as you think on them but sometimes one or two you can't get your brain around to go forward.

And also that pride (the devil's condemnation) goeth before destruction and where we have Leviathan (who is called both the serpent and the dragon) is also called the king over all the children of pride. And in Revelation, the king of the bottomless pit, who is also the angel of the bottomless pit has a name much like his nature, which is destruction and destroyer.

I was looking at this sometime back in relation to the locusts on another thread under my other screen name, it always fascinating to look into and see how many things mesh in various ways.