Who the beast and false prophet really are.

[Davy]

I see someone attempting to interpret Matthew 24 literally, despite lacking Biblical understanding. Let's discuss the context of the housetop tonight.

Mat 24:15-22
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand )
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
(18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

You have to keep in mind that God is speaking in METAPHORS!
That is to say, using words denoting one kind of object in place of another, in order to suggest some likeness between the two. The housetop is not used as a "figure" of the Church, rather it is used as a figure of the believers outside the house, in the mode of oration or public speaking. Consider this in the context of the day it was written. There were no huge houses to hold thousands of people. Public speaking and announcements were done from the housetop, above the crowd where people could see and hear the speaker. It was the place of announcements, very much used as a stage or a platform would be used today so that we could speak to the public.

Please note that the housetop is outside of the house (Church), it is not in the house. Used in the context of Matthew 24 it is illustrating a preaching platform outside the Church, with the preacher being commanded not to go back inside the house to get anything. This is not speculation, this truth is made abundantly clear by the other books of the Bible that reference this prophecy, and indeed by the very context of Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:17
"Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: "

In other words, God warns His servants that when they flee from this abomination in the congregation, they are not to go back into the house (Church) to get anything, for there is nothing there that is worth their lives. ie., the works and possessions in this house are now rendered worthless and the habitation thereof dangerous. They will find no bread (the Word of God) there, no clothing (the righteousness of Christ) there, no gold (the preciousness of Christ) there, and no shelter from storm (the tabernacle of Christ) there. All these things that Christians possessed "in the house" are now gone, and they are not to look back, as Lot's wife looked back. Abominations in the Church have caused it to fall and become a desert (desolation). So they are not to go down into the house to take any thing out of it. They preach from the housetops. It may help to look at the next verse, because the very same spiritual picture is painted there where God says:

....

I think that's going too far with speculation with the housetops and fleeing thing.

Christ is warning those of His servants simply to 'get out of town' when they see the placing of the abomination of desolation IDOL.

You actually don't get to a metaphor within that section of Scripture until this, specifically the 23rd verse...

Luke 21:21-23
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

That is literal about those living in Judea-Jerusalem leaving that actual geographical area of the holy land, and if you live outside that area, to not enter into it.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

That "For" continues the thoughts of the previous verse as a conjunction. The reason to stay out of that are is because God's day of vengeance is very soon to come there at that area, which will be compassed with armies. That is the day of Christ's future return to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14; that's the event this is pointing to on the last day.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

The other 2 versions of that 23rd verse, Matthew 24:19 and Mark 13:17 don't mention that idea of "and wrath upon this people", meaning those 'with child'. What specific WRATH is to come upon the earth on the last day with Christ's future coming on the 7th Vial? GOD's specific WRATH. This requires a bit more thought, because why would God's Wrath be upon pregnant women at that time, IF that is meant literally?

Lord Jesus, and Apostle Paul, actually gave the idea of being 'with child' in the spiritual sense of one being a harlot and not found "a chaste virgin" (Luke 23:27-30; 2 Corinthians 11). God's Wrath on the last day will definitely be upon those who don't wait on Christ's coming, and instead fall away to worship the Antichrist who comes first playing Christ.

 

[Jay Ross]

So your created false lead-in about confusion of the previous poster was an opening you created just so you could create ACTUAL CONFUSION about the "beast" identity in Revelation 13??

The Revelation 13:1-2 beast that comes up out of the "sea" is a KINGDOM BEAST. That's why it says it has TEN HORNS (which are 10 kings), and SEVEN HEADS (which are "seven mountains"), and TEN CROWNS (which represent the 10 powers of those 10 kings), a SYSTEM upon the earth.

Really, Davy, is that the best that you can do?

The beast mentioned in the Book of Rev is first mentioned, chronologically, in Rev 17 where we read: -

​

7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.​

​

9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.​

​

12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”​

​

15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”​

​

This beast are the four beasts of Daniel 7:2-12 which are described as having 7 heads and ten horns, working together in unison.

This beast will go all over the earth with Satan and eventually go up against the Lamb and the Saints.

The beasts are all the judged heavenly hosts that will be judged in the heavens at the end of this present age. They, along with the kings of the earth, will all rise up out of the Bottomless pit/ground.

Daniel 7:19-27 and Rev 13 & 17 describe what will occur during the little while period after the Bottomless pit is unlocked which allows those imprisoned to rise up out of the ground to do what has been prescribed for them to do before they are all captured and dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

The Four facetted beast of Rev 7:19-27 is the same beast of Rev 13:1-10 and the Little Horn will want to change the times and the law and the saints will be given into his hands for a time times and a half.

I am sure that this is what the scriptures is telling us will happen after the Bottomless pit is unlocked after it was locked at the beginning of the seventh age.

Oh well, each to his own understanding. people believe that they have the right understanding and will fight to the death so to speak to justify what it is that they have discern in the spirit.

Good bye for the moment.

​

 

[TribulationSigns]

I think that's going too far with speculation with the housetops and fleeing thing.

Not likely. It is foolish to natural man, remember? 1Co 2:14

Christ is warning those of His servants simply to 'get out of town' when they see the placing of the abomination of desolation IDOL.

The Bible does not say to "get out of town." as if there is a physical city to flee from. And God did not talk about physical idol as abomination of desolation. You are reading into Scripture with literal interpreation without Scripture support whatsoever.

You actually don't get to a metaphor within that section of Scripture until this, specifically the 23rd verse...

Luke 21:21-23
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

That is literal about those living in Judea-Jerusalem leaving that actual geographical area of the holy land, and if you live outside that area, to not enter into it.

Incorrect. You lack spiritual discernment on what Judaea represents!

Luke 21:21-22

• "Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
• For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

These are the days of vengeance, a time when the congregation of God has become spiritually Babylon, will fall. Comparing scripture with scripture, we see that we are to flee that we not be caught up in the wrath of God upon her, and this takes place at the end of the world. Those who are in the countries signify those who are missionary not to return to unfaithful congregation since she is under the judgment of God. This is not talking about physical fleeing from Romans, but from the judgment (Revelation 18) of the wrath of God upon THIS people, His New Testament congregation.

Jeremiah 51:6-8

• "Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.
• Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
• Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed."

Let our soul flee as a bird to it's mountain to escape the days of vengeance of Matthew 24. This is the judgment of the great harlot, not AD 70 of the falling of physical bricks and Roman conquerors. Selah!

That "For" continues the thoughts of the previous verse as a conjunction. The reason to stay out of that are is because God's day of vengeance is very soon to come there at that area, which will be compassed with armies. That is the day of Christ's future return to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14; that's the event this is pointing to on the last day.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

You got the timing of Zechariah 14 and Olivet Discourse confused. Zechariah 14 pointed to Christ's first coming, the fall of the Old Testament congregation, making the way for the remnant into the New Testament congregation where they observe the feast of the tabernacles along with the Gentiles which represents the whole Church age, our journey in the wilderness in the world! Selah!
Matthew 24 and Olivet Diicorce is prophesy about the NEW testament congregation prior to the Second Coming. Not the Jews in the modern nation of Israel. You already forgot that the church "IS" a representation of God's kingdom on Earth since Pentecost and will continue until the Second Coming.

The other 2 versions of that 23rd verse, Matthew 24:19 and Mark 13:17 don't mention that idea of "and wrath upon this people", meaning those 'with child'. What specific WRATH is to come upon the earth on the last day with Christ's future coming on the 7th Vial? GOD's specific WRATH. This requires a bit more thought, because why would God's Wrath be upon pregnant women at that time, IF that is meant literally?

Again, you lack understanding of who woman and the child are.

Mat 24:19
(19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

The woman is New Testament congregation. God in Matthew 24 has told His Elect to flee from that unfaithful house (woman) and that it is WOE unto them that give suck. Those that give suck is a phrase signifying the ministers of the church whose job it is to spiritually feed the children. This is taken from the prophesy of Lamentations. You might "carefully" compare Scirpture with Scirpture to understand exactly who this passage refers to. Verse 19 clearly refers to the UNSAVED believers of God's house who will be under judgment. I am talking about PROFESSED CHRISTIANS who refuse to flee from their church thinking that there is nothing wrong with their church and is not under judgment (just like Lot's sons in law!). Remember Lot's wife?! It is a time of spiritual famines in God's House - the home of the false prophets and christs! They have NOT fed the children and they die of starvation and thirst. That is what is in the picture here!

Lamentations 4:1-6

• "How is the gold become dim! how is the most fine gold changed! the stones of the sanctuary are poured out in the top of every street.
• The precious sons of Zion, comparable to fine gold, how are they esteemed as earthen pitchers, the work of the hands of the potter!
• Even the sea monsters draw out the breast, they give suck to their young ones: the daughter of my people is become cruel, like the ostriches in the wilderness.
• The tongue of the sucking child cleaveth to the roof of his mouth for thirst: the young children ask bread, and no man breaketh it unto them.
• They that did feed delicately are desolate in the streets: they that were brought up in scarlet embrace dunghills.
• For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."

See? God is not fragmenting, this is the very cohesive way God prophesies. Woe unto the unsaved people of the congregation (not the world), encouragement to the saved to depart out from the midst of them. Nothing new there!

Selah!

 

[Scott Downey]

I see someone attempting to interpret Matthew 24 literally, despite lacking Biblical understanding. Let's discuss the context of the housetop tonight.

Mat 24:15-22
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand )
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
(18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

You have to keep in mind that God is speaking in METAPHORS!
That is to say, using words denoting one kind of object in place of another, in order to suggest some likeness between the two. The housetop is not used as a "figure" of the Church, rather it is used as a figure of the believers outside the house, in the mode of oration or public speaking. Consider this in the context of the day it was written. There were no huge houses to hold thousands of people. Public speaking and announcements were done from the housetop, above the crowd where people could see and hear the speaker. It was the place of announcements, very much used as a stage or a platform would be used today so that we could speak to the public.

Please note that the housetop is outside of the house (Church), it is not in the house. Used in the context of Matthew 24 it is illustrating a preaching platform outside the Church, with the preacher being commanded not to go back inside the house to get anything. This is not speculation, this truth is made abundantly clear by the other books of the Bible that reference this prophecy, and indeed by the very context of Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:17
"Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: "

In other words, God warns His servants that when they flee from this abomination in the congregation, they are not to go back into the house (Church) to get anything, for there is nothing there that is worth their lives. ie., the works and possessions in this house are now rendered worthless and the habitation thereof dangerous. They will find no bread (the Word of God) there, no clothing (the righteousness of Christ) there, no gold (the preciousness of Christ) there, and no shelter from storm (the tabernacle of Christ) there. All these things that Christians possessed "in the house" are now gone, and they are not to look back, as Lot's wife looked back. Abominations in the Church have caused it to fall and become a desert (desolation). So they are not to go down into the house to take any thing out of it. They preach from the housetops. It may help to look at the next verse, because the very same spiritual picture is painted there where God says:

Matthew 24:18

• "Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes."

This is the very same warning to those who dwelled on the housetops not to go back in the house, but God is now using the metaphor of those in the field. Those who were laboring in the field symbolize those in the world (or outside the Church -Matthew 13:38). These are those Christians who are not in the house (Church), but who have come out into the wilderness of the world to sow seed or preach the gospel. They are not to try to go back into their house to get clothing. There is no clothing there that can protect anyone at this time. For the clothing, which is the righteousness of Christ, has departed it. This has nothing to do with AD 70, it concerns the nature of the Church at this time, and why believers should stay away from it.

There are those who feel as if they must go to a Church, even if the Church is unbiblical or it is preaching a false gospel. Because unfortunately they are looking to the Church for their security, instead of Christ, and they do not understand just how dreadfully terrible false gospel is to a Holy God. We should not neglect the assembling together of the saints, but we should also remember that we are married to Christ, not the Church! Consider the mirror reference to this event recorded in the book of Luke:

Luke 17:31

• "In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back."

The imagery illustrated here is that there is nothing in this abominable house that we should return to. If you're in the field or world, stay there, do not return to this house full of abominations. If our goods or works are left in the house, do not return for their sakes. In other words, don't return for the assembly's sake, for friendship sake, for companionship, for Church tradition, or for (so-called) love of God. Whosoever loves these more than God is not worthy of Him. Here in this passage of Luke it is a little clearer what the Lord is saying. Believers must not go back into the Church at this time, for the things they once had there will not clothe or shelter them, nor is it of any value now. Clearly God is commanding that the believers stay out of the House. Again, as recorded in Mark.

Mark 13:15

• "And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:"

God is distinguishing and separating the house, from the housetops. It is a dangerous and worthless effort to go inside the house at this time period. He that is outside the house (housetop) when they "see" the abomination calamity upon the house, should flee without delay. He should not take time to win others, or to secure any articles of apparel, or to get his stuff, or to secure bread from this house. For by doing so, he would endanger his own soul. For there is wrath upon this house, and He has been warned to flee from it. That is the warning from God in Matthew 24 to those who can "SEE" the abomination stand in the Holy place. Everyone will not see it, in fact few will have it revealed to them. But when it is, they are to proclaim it from the housetops. But not enter into the house. Consider wisely:

Luke 12:2-4

• ""For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
• Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
• And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do."

Pay particular note to the contrasting of something being whispered in your ear, to something being proclaimed from the "housetops." In other words, the exact opposite of secretive is to make this a public announcement on the housetops. Preach the gospel message, do not sit in your closet, reveal these truths God has revealed to you, from the housetops. Be the watchman who blows the trumpet when they see danger, and don't worry about your person, being reviled, or being spoken evil against. Your job is to "Watch!" Tribulation, persecution, reviling, contempt or disdain by those unfaithful of the Church should not dissuade the Watchmen. We fear God, not man. We are God pleasers rather than men pleasers. Here again, the housetop is the place "outside the house" used to trumpet the warnings or make the announcement that all the people will hear the witness of the abomination in the Holy place. And even today, many earnest Christians have heard it in the ear (Luke 12:3) just what is Apostasy, and have seen with the eye the abominations in the house, and are indeed preaching from the housetops that many others will also see and hear.

Proverbs 25:24

• "It is better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house."

Better to be on the housetop or outside the house than to live with the contentious or argumentative woman. Brawling woman, as in two diverse contending parties. For a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.

Well, your interpretation referring to this talking about an escape plan for these 'warrior kings of the east' is even more speculative than a clear reading of scripture.

 

[Scott Downey]

I think that's going too far with speculation with the housetops and fleeing thing.

Christ is warning those of His servants simply to 'get out of town' when they see the placing of the abomination of desolation IDOL.

You actually don't get to a metaphor within that section of Scripture until this, specifically the 23rd verse...

Luke 21:21-23
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

That is literal about those living in Judea-Jerusalem leaving that actual geographical area of the holy land, and if you live outside that area, to not enter into it.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

That "For" continues the thoughts of the previous verse as a conjunction. The reason to stay out of that are is because God's day of vengeance is very soon to come there at that area, which will be compassed with armies. That is the day of Christ's future return to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14; that's the event this is pointing to on the last day.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

The other 2 versions of that 23rd verse, Matthew 24:19 and Mark 13:17 don't mention that idea of "and wrath upon this people", meaning those 'with child'. What specific WRATH is to come upon the earth on the last day with Christ's future coming on the 7th Vial? GOD's specific WRATH. This requires a bit more thought, because why would God's Wrath be upon pregnant women at that time, IF that is meant literally?

Lord Jesus, and Apostle Paul, actually gave the idea of being 'with child' in the spiritual sense of one being a harlot and not found "a chaste virgin" (Luke 23:27-30; 2 Corinthians 11). God's Wrath on the last day will definitely be upon those who don't wait on Christ's coming, and instead fall away to worship the Antichrist who comes first playing Christ.

It is like the time of LOT and Lot fleeing from the cities about to be destroyed by the LORD GOD.
Jesus also compares that future time of destruction to Noah and Lot, using the word 'likewise'.
No reason to think it is anything else.
====================================================
Luke 17

The Coming of the Kingdom​

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, [f]‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you.”

22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his [i]goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two [j]men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 [k]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
==================================

BODY here is referring to carcass. The wicked will be killed, they are the ones taken away to destruction, while the righteous inherit the earth. Also refer to Daniel 7 about what happens to the Lord's people at the end of the last day. Some have claimed this is the rapture in v35-37, but it is not. Refer to the 'Great Supper of God' in revelation where the birds eat the flesh of the wicked dead, killed by Christ at His second coming. Eagles are birds of prey, and some versions use vultures in that verse.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Well, your interpretation referring to this talking about an escape plan for these 'warrior kings of the east' is even more speculative than a clear reading of scripture.

Where did you get the "warrior kings of the east" from to begin with anyway? Did I teach this? Of course not. You are saying this because you do not like what you are reading.

Let's see if you can explain who are the kings of the East BIBLICALLY with Scripture then.

 

[Scott Downey]

Malachi 4​

The Great Day of God​

1“For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”
--------------------------------------------------------
v3, For the people of God, the wicked are ashes under their feet
The wicked are taken away to destruction, while the righteous inherit the land.
Scripture is very consistent between old and new testaments as it should be as God authored the words.

 

[Davy]

....
BODY here is referring to carcass. The wicked will be killed, they are the ones taken away to destruction, while the righteous inherit the earth. Also refer to Daniel 7 about what happens to the Lord's people at the end of the last day. Some have claimed this is the rapture in v35-37, but it is not. Refer to the 'Great Supper of God' in revelation where the birds eat the flesh of the wicked dead, killed by Christ at His second coming. Eagles are birds of prey, and some versions use vultures in that verse.

I have a different perspective of just what destroyed means on that day of Christ's future coming. The "day of the Lord" is to accompany God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth. I believe that will end man's time in a flesh body.

Zechariah 14 reveals that not all of the great army that comes upon Jerusalem on the last day will be destroyed, but that leftovers of them will be required to go up to Jerusalem to worship The KING from year to year.

I believe per Isaiah 25, that all nations will go through Apostle Paul's 'change' at the 'twinkling of an eye' on that day of Christ's coming, with the majority still unsaved, still having liable to perish souls. When Lord Jesus comes, I see the end of this present time of our being in a flesh body. This means the "second death" is not another flesh death, but death of one's spirit/soul cast into the future "lake of fire" along with Satan, hell, and death.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It is like the time of LOT and Lot fleeing from the cities about to be destroyed by the LORD GOD.
Jesus also compares that future time of destruction to Noah and Lot, using the word 'likewise'.
No reason to think it is anything else.

The reference to the destruction of a physical city or country is not what God is discussing here. Instead, He is referring to His New Testament congregation, which serves as a representation of Jerusalem and Judea. The abomination of desolation that appears in the midst of the church is a warning to God's Elect to recognize and flee from an unfaithful congregation. Without spiritual discernment, it can be difficult to grasp the meaning of the Lord's message. To help convey this message, God compares His unfaithful New Testament congregation to Sodom, Judea, Egypt, and other places - but only in a spiritual sense.

Selah!

31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his [i]goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two [j]men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 [k]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
==================================

BODY here is referring to carcass. The wicked will be killed, they are the ones taken away to destruction, while the righteous inherit the earth. Also refer to Daniel 7 about what happens to the Lord's people at the end of the last day. Some have claimed this is the rapture in v35-37, but it is not. Refer to the 'Great Supper of God' in revelation where the birds eat the flesh of the wicked dead, killed by Christ at His second coming. Eagles are birds of prey, and some versions use vultures in that verse.

You are correct about one thing. The verses are not talking about the rapture. But I do not think you understand what the body refers to and who are the eagles. For example:

Luke 17:36

• "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
• And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

The context is that Christ says one will be taken, and the apostles ask where. The Lord answers by the cryptic language declaring "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." Thus He has answered their question of where the believers (those taken) will be taken to. Yes, it is a difficult passage but I think it is clear these are the unbelievers left, and the elect taken. And his answer to the question shows where. ..to judge the body.

The eagle is symbolic of the Lord's people, who take on "His" Characteristics. Thus they are both protected and have judgment. "Know ye not that we shall judge Messengers," 1st Cor 6:3. This is the same elect who have power to shut heaven that it rain not, and have power over waters to turn them to blood. Because they have Spirit of God in them and come with the word of God in their mouths.

Revelation 12:14

• "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

As the great old hymn, "Flee as a bird to your mountain, thou who art weary of sin."

Psalms 11:1

• "In the Lord I take refuge. How then can you say to me: Flee like a bird to your mountain."

We dwell in the spiritual mountains as eagles, and this is because we are representative of God, and thus we take on the characteristics of God. Just as the passages in Job. Not vultures, but eagles [aetos], because they are characteristic of God's protection and judgment.

Revelation 4:6-8

• "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
• And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
• And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

This image of the four living creatures symbolically represents certain diverse characteristics of God. The Lion, the lamb, the man and the flying eagle [aetos]. Likewise, His elect are also characterized as these same creatures. And that is why they are the ambassadors of God, sent with the word that judges. The word against this body as that which brings death. Jesus Christ is the ultimate Eagles, and we believers are eagles. So Luke 17 is talking about God taking His chosen Elect out of unfaithful church which is now Babylon the Great, to avoid the plagues and have them stand afar off prophesying against the unfaithful congregation that her judgment has come... as the eagles! Because we represent Christ that speaks His Word through out mouth. As it is written:

Rev 18:4
(4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Rev 18:8-10
(8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
(9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

THe kings of the earth are God's Elect. They will be able to "see" the abomination of desolation stated in the church where they flee from and prophesy judgment against her...just as the Eagles over the dead body in Luke 17.

 

[Scott Downey]

I have a different perspective of just what destroyed means on that day of Christ's future coming. The "day of the Lord" is to accompany God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth. I believe that will end man's time in a flesh body.

Zechariah 14 reveals that not all of the great army that comes upon Jerusalem on the last day will be destroyed, but that leftovers of them will be required to go up to Jerusalem to worship The KING from year to year.

I believe per Isaiah 25, that all nations will go through Apostle Paul's 'change' at the 'twinkling of an eye' on that day of Christ's coming, with the majority still unsaved, still having liable to perish souls. When Lord Jesus comes, I see the end of this present time of our being in a flesh body. This means the "second death" is not another flesh death, but death of one's spirit/soul cast into the future "lake of fire" along with Satan, hell, and death.

I refer to Matthew 13 where the parable was explained by Christ. The wicked are always destroyed in scripture. Christ does not speak of any except the righteous and the wicked referring to the final consummation of history, there is no people hanging out in the middle. All the wicked are gathered by angels and cast into the fire. Whatever your view, you must reconcile that with Christ.

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

The Parable of the Tares Explained​

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
========================
Something to notice here, is the angels gather OUT of His kingdom all things which offend God. While leaving the righteous intact in the earth. As Christ says, 'The field is the world', The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. And all them that dwell therein. All souls are mine. The soul that sins shalll die.

 

[Scott Downey]

The reference to the destruction of a physical city or country is not what God is discussing here. Instead, He is referring to His New Testament congregation, which serves as a representation of Jerusalem and Judea. The abomination of desolation that appears in the midst of the church is a warning to God's Elect to recognize and flee from an unfaithful congregation. Without spiritual discernment, it can be difficult to grasp the meaning of the Lord's message. To help convey this message, God compares His unfaithful New Testament congregation to Sodom, Judea, Egypt, and other places - but only in a spiritual sense.

Selah!




You are correct about one thing. The verses are not talking about the rapture. But I do not think you understand what the body refers to and who are the eagles. For example:

Luke 17:36

• "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
• And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

The context is that Christ says one will be taken, and the apostles ask where. The Lord answers by the cryptic language declaring "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." Thus He has answered their question of where the believers (those taken) will be taken to. Yes, it is a difficult passage but I think it is clear these are the unbelievers left, and the elect taken. And his answer to the question shows where. ..to judge the body.

The eagle is symbolic of the Lord's people, who take on "His" Characteristics. Thus they are both protected and have judgment. "Know ye not that we shall judge Messengers," 1st Cor 6:3. This is the same elect who have power to shut heaven that it rain not, and have power over waters to turn them to blood. Because they have Spirit of God in them and come with the word of God in their mouths.

Revelation 12:14

• "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

As the great old hymn, "Flee as a bird to your mountain, thou who art weary of sin."

Psalms 11:1

• "In the Lord I take refuge. How then can you say to me: Flee like a bird to your mountain."

We dwell in the spiritual mountains as eagles, and this is because we are representative of God, and thus we take on the characteristics of God. Just as the passages in Job. Not vultures, but eagles [aetos], because they are characteristic of God's protection and judgment.

Revelation 4:6-8

• "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
• And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
• And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

This image of the four living creatures symbolically represents certain diverse characteristics of God. The Lion, the lamb, the man and the flying eagle [aetos]. Likewise, His elect are also characterized as these same creatures. And that is why they are the ambassadors of God, sent with the word that judges. The word against this body as that which brings death. Jesus Christ is the ultimate Eagles, and we believers are eagles. So Luke 17 is talking about God taking His chosen Elect out of unfaithful church which is now Babylon the Great, to avoid the plagues and have them stand afar off prophesying against the unfaithful congregation that her judgment has come... as the eagles! Because we represent Christ that speaks His Word through out mouth. As it is written:

Rev 18:4
(4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Rev 18:8-10
(8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
(9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

THe kings of the earth are God's Elect. They will be able to "see" the abomination of desolation stated in the church where they flee from and prophesy judgment against her...just as the Eagles over the dead body in Luke 17.

The ones taken are not the Lord's people.
in the KJV it says like this, body means carcase of the dead bodies.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

G105 - aetos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G105 - ἀετός aetós, ah-et-os'; from the same as ; an eagle (from its wind-like flight):—eagle.

www.blueletterbible.org

G105, translated here as eagles

The KJV translates Strong's G105 in the following manner: eagle (4x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. an eagle: since eagles do not usually go in quest of carrion, this may be a vulture that resembles an eagle
2. an eagle as a standard (Roman Military)

Body, carcase, CORPSE, they are DEAD then the ones taken away.
KJV Translation Count — Total: 5x
The KJV translates Strong's G4430 in the following manner: dead body (3x), carcase (1x), corpse (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a fall, downfall
   1. metaph. a failure, defeat, calamity
   2. an error, lapse into sin
2. that which has fallen
   1. the fallen body of one dead or slain, a corpse, a carcase

G4430 - ptōma - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G4430 - πτῶμα ptōma, pto'-mah; from the alternate of ; a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):—dead body, carcase, corpse.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[TribulationSigns]

The ones taken are not the Lord's people.

Yep. They are. They are the ones whom God has taken out (ie. those who have departed out from unfaithful Babylon, Revelation 18) as Scripture shows. Look it up.

in the KJV it says like this, body means carcase of the dead bodies.

No. it is a dead body where the carcass is. It is the body of an unfaithful congregation, made up of unfaithful servants. Selah! It has everything to do with God's New Testament congregation prior to the Second Coming. Not Roman soldiers in 70AD nonsense.

G105, translated here as eagles

So? And what is God's definition of Eagles in Scripture? (Psst, it is not Roman soldiers).

 

[Davy]

I refer to Matthew 13 where the parable was explained by Christ. The wicked are always destroyed in scripture. Christ does not speak of any except the righteous and the wicked referring to the final consummation of history, there is no people hanging out in the middle. All the wicked are gathered by angels and cast into the fire. Whatever your view, you must reconcile that with Christ.

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

The Parable of the Tares Explained​

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
========================
Something to notice here, is the angels gather OUT of His kingdom all things which offend God. While leaving the righteous intact in the earth. As Christ says, 'The field is the world', The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. And all them that dwell therein. All souls are mine. The soul that sins shalll die.

Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 5 and 1 Corinthians 15 gave us details about the change that is to happen at the "last trump", the last day of this world when Jesus comes. He made the Isaiah 25 Scripture about all nations having the covering of this world being cast off part of that 1 Corinthians 15 detail when quoting about Death Swallowed Up in Victory from Isaiah.

In 1 Corinthians 15:53-54, Paul revealed that to have eternal life in Christ, one must go through 2 changes, not 1. The wicked will go through only 1 change he showed, and that is the change from the body of corruption (flesh) to the "spiritual body". But ONLY those in Christ will go through the 2nd change, which is the change of "this mortal" (soul) putting on "immortality" in Christ Jesus. Those are 4 different Greek words that Paul used, which very few brethren take the time to look up.

And Zechariah 14 about the leftovers of the nations that will come up against Jerusalem is linked with the events of Revelation 20 about the unsaved which Lord Jesus and His elect will reign over for a "thousand years". They are NOT destroyed yet, AS WRITTEN...

Zech 14:16-17
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
KJV

So it sounds like you have succumbed to the false doctrine of men called Amillennialism, which wrongly believes on the day of Christ's future coming, all... the wicked are destroyed and those in Christ immediately go into God's new heavens and a new earth time. Well, that just ain't written. What is written, is that Christ Jesus MUST first reign over all His enemies, putting them under His footstool. Even Revelation 3:9 Jesus revealed He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come and worship Him at the feet of His elect in that future Millennial 1,000 years reign of Rev.20. So your attempt to rely solely on the destruction idea of the tares in Matthew 13 is simply moot. You are denying the greater details that Jesus gave later in His Book of Revelation, and by Apostle Paul in his Epistles.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello, the entity of the beasts and the Little Horn is found in these scriptures: -

The beasts of Daniel 7 and Revelation 9

Daniel 7:15-18: –– 15“ I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by and asked him the truth of all this. So, he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’​

​

Revelation 9:13-21: –– The Sixth Trumpet​

​

13 Then the sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God 14 saying to the sixth angel with the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”​

​

15 So the four angels who had been prepared for this hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 And the number of mounted troops was two hundred million; I heard their number.​

​

17 Now the horses and riders in my vision looked like this: The riders had breastplates the colors of fire, sapphire, and sulfur. The heads of the horses were like the heads of lions, and out of their mouths proceeded fire, smoke, and sulfur. 18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke, and sulfur that proceeded from their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; indeed, their tails were like snakes, having heads with which to inflict harm.​

​

20 Now the rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands. They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Furthermore, they did not repent of their murder, sorcery, sexual immorality, and theft.​

The beast(s) are wicked fallen heavenly hosts, In Daniel 7:2 they are described as the Four winds of Heaven, where the wind is understood to be spiritual entities, i.e., angels.

The manifestations that rise up out of the sea of humanity is what we see of the activities of the beasts of Daniel 7.

We need to be able to discern the difference between the real beasts and the people who manifest the dominate characteristics of the respective beasts.

Shalom