"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

[gpresdo]

The Baptism by which we are born again is neither water baptism, nor the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


The baptism by which we are born again is when we “believe” the Gospel and are baptized by the Spirit into Christ.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


This is the first of three baptisms which are distinctly recognized by the baptizer; in other words who is doing the baptizing.

In this initial baptism it is the Spirit that baptizes us into Christ, this is when we are born of the Spirit;
born again.

The Spirit is the Baptizer.

In water baptism, a human being is the baptizer.

In the baptism with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is the Baptizer.


You may not agree, but I think we agree that we are not saved by water baptism.

One cannot be baptized into the Holy Spirit unless repented and water baptized...per scriptures.

 

[JLB]

One cannot be baptized into the Holy Spirit unless repented and water baptized...per scriptures.

No such this as being baptized into the Holy Spirit.


We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit when we repent and believe the Gospel.

Then we are baptized in water by man.

Then we are baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ, with evidence we can see and hear.

 

[Davy]

If one believes he will be baptized as scripture says. Because he believes.
They go together.

And I believe we are... to obey Jesus' commandment to get baptized of water also.

 

[gpresdo]

Wow! So he's a "Pastor" to you?

If you'll study the man's life you'll find he started off good and in the beginning was preaching Truth.

Then to the chagrin of the OSAS false teachers this guy backslid falling away from the Lord over in to teaching doctrines of demons, kinda like the OSAS people do.

Thankfully most OSAS people don't put poison in their kool aid, yet.

I have run across Church of Christ people who claim as long as one is dunked in the water they are saved, but they typically teach one must actually live for the Lord afterwards to their credit

"DUNKED IN THE WATER:...AS IN BAPTISM?
Sounds like u dont think so?

 

[Jay Ross]

I have not seen BBJ on the forum since about March 2026

 

[DJT_47]

It's obvious its water baptism Jesus is referring to. Its his words stating requirements for salvation that a person must choose to do. A person can't choose to be baptized by the Spirit and then do it after belief. He hasn't control over God’s spirit, however, he does have control of whether or not to be obedient and follow through with his belief by being immersed in water. He can choose to believe as well as be baptized, but a person can't choose to be baptized by the Spirit of God. Also, trace baptism back to it's origin in the NT, back to John the Baptist.

 

[rwb]

Was Jesus referring to water baptism or spiritual baptism? I'm thinking it's the latter. What do you believe?

Mark 16:14-18
14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

It cannot be water baptism because water cannot cleanse us within. Only Holy Spirit baptism does that. He who believes and is born again through Spirit baptism shall be saved. Because there are many who profess to believe and say that they are saved but have never been born again of the Spirit.

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mt 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mt 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mt 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mt 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[PeterAndroz]

It cannot be water baptism because water cannot cleanse us within. Only Holy Spirit baptism does that. He who believes and is born again through Spirit baptism shall be saved. Because there are many who profess to believe and say that they are saved but have never been born again of the Spirit.

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mt 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mt 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mt 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mt 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Eph 4:5-6
Paul also teaches of the one baptism
...
Mt 25:41-46 teaches a believer can become unsaved based on failing to perform the tasks mentioned.
Yet Paul does not teach a believer can become UNsaved
Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
..
That being the case, Matt & Paul are contradicting each other
OR
They are referring to a different audience/age.

 

[rwb]

Eph 4:5-6
Paul also teaches of the one baptism
...
Mt 25:41-46 teaches a believer can become unsaved based on failing to perform the tasks mentioned.
Yet Paul does not teach a believer can become UNsaved
Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
..
That being the case, Matt & Paul are contradicting each other
OR
They are referring to a different audience/age.

Man is saved ETERNALLY when we have been born again of Christ's Spirit. That is the very clear theme found throughout the Bible. How can one who has been eternally saved become unsaved since salvation through the Spirit of Christ in us is ETERNAL LIFE? There is not a single verse throughout the Bible that says one who has been born again of the Spirit of Christ can be unborn or as you put it unsaved!

Matthew 25:41-46 teaches us that some who profess to believe on Christ have never been born again of the Spirit. Their faith and works that appear to be good outwardly, were done believing their own good works of the flesh would be good enough to save them. That's why those on Christ's left were dumbfounded to hear Christ tells them, "Depart from Me". They won't believe their good works could not merit them eternal life.

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mt 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mt 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mt 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mt 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Man is saved ETERNALLY when we have been born again of Christ's Spirit. That is the very clear theme found throughout the Bible. How can one who has been eternally saved become unsaved since salvation through the Spirit of Christ in us is ETERNAL LIFE? There is not a single verse throughout the Bible that says one who has been born again of the Spirit of Christ can be unborn or as you put it unsaved!

Matthew 25:41-46 teaches us that some who profess to believe on Christ have never been born again of the Spirit. Their faith and works that appear to be good outwardly, were done believing their own good works of the flesh would be good enough to save them. That's why those on Christ's left were dumbfounded to hear Christ tells them, "Depart from Me". They won't believe their good works could not merit them eternal life.

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mt 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mt 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mt 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mt 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

"Man is saved ETERNALLY when we have been born again of Christ's Spirit.
and today that happens c/- 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13 = saved, justified, HSsealed
Not conditional of performance >> Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
...
Mat 25:41-46 teaches CONDITIONS to remain saved
..
So clearly MATT is addressing a different audience than Paul

 

[gpresdo]

"Man is saved ETERNALLY when we have been born again of Christ's Spirit.
and today that happens c/- 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13 = saved, justified, HSsealed
Not conditional of performance >> Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
...
Mat 25:41-46 teaches CONDITIONS to remain saved
..
So clearly MATT is addressing a different audience than Paul

You are very wrong. Scriptures tell us that we can loose our ..born again status. Study it.

 

[PeterAndroz]

You are very wrong. Scriptures tell us that we can loose our ..born again status. Study it.

STUDY that >> 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13, Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
Are you claiming Paul is a liar ?

 

[gpresdo]

STUDY that >> 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13, Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
Are you claiming Paul is a liar ?

None supports your position. So why r u leaving related scriptures out?

OSAS It is not to be.

Common sense.

Otherwise why would God give us;

Unlimited number of times we can receive forgiveness....wouldn't one application work?
why does scripture warn us about backsliding?
Why does scripture warn us that it would be better that we would have never known of God's revealing for us?
why does scripture warn us ....do not allow any man to steal your crowns?
Why does scripture say...maintain (Righteousness) until the end?
Why does scripture intent show God/Christ/Holy spirit cannot reside where sin is present?
Further, the concept is in conflict with God's intent that we prepare ourselves and live a righteous life.
etc.

Further,
it is an interpretation of scriptures which did not exists prior to the 1960's....which is telling.


scriptures;

So many other Biblical verses that deny OSAS.;

Fall from grace” – Galatians 5:1-4,13

1. “Be led away with error” – 2 Peter 3:17
2. “Err from the truth” – James 5:19-20
3. “Weak brother may perish” – 1 Corinthians 8:11
4. “Fall into condemnation” – James 5:12
5. “Be moved away from the hope” – Colossians 1:21-23
6. “Deny the Lord who bought them” – 2 Peter 2:1
7. “Depart from the living God” – Hebrews 3:12
8. “Can be a castaway” – 1 Corinthians 9:27
9. “Can become accursed children” – 2 Peter 2:1
10. Romans 8 ..... spiritually minded is life and peace......

 

[PeterAndroz]

None supports your position. So why r u leaving related scriptures out?

See how you run to the other Apostles who wrote for a different age/audience.
No wonder you are SOOOOOO confused

 

[gpresdo]

See how you run to the other Apostles who wrote for a different age/audience.
No wonder you are SOOOOOO confused

No transference...it is as God's word.
New age religion teachings is confusion..... scripture tells us that.

 

[PeterAndroz]

No transference...it is as God's word.
New age religion teachings is confusion..... scripture tells us that.

Acts 9:15 - Paul is your Apostle
Rom 11:13 as above
Rom 15:16 as above
Gal 2:7-9 as above
..
Yet GP knows better than Scritpture

 

[Jack]

You are very wrong. Scriptures tell us that we can loose our ..born again status. Study it.

Absolutely! The OSASers are simply trying to convince each other!

 

[DJT_47]

Man is saved ETERNALLY when we have been born again of Christ's Spirit. That is the very clear theme found throughout the Bible. How can one who has been eternally saved become unsaved since salvation through the Spirit of Christ in us is ETERNAL LIFE? There is not a single verse throughout the Bible that says one who has been born again of the Spirit of Christ can be unborn or as you put it unsaved!

Matthew 25:41-46 teaches us that some who profess to believe on Christ have never been born again of the Spirit. Their faith and works that appear to be good outwardly, were done believing their own good works of the flesh would be good enough to save them. That's why those on Christ's left were dumbfounded to hear Christ tells them, "Depart from Me". They won't believe their good works could not merit them eternal life.

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mt 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mt 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mt 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mt 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

What is man saved from is the question that should/must be addressed.m first in understanding salvation. Scripture tells us we're saved by remission of sins PAST atvrhe point of being baptized into Christ ( see Acts 2:38, Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9).

And it's clear that a person can lose their salvation as can be seen by a casual reading of the Hebrews letter written to converted Jews warning them of the consequences of returning to thrir old beliefs and renouncing Christ after conversion, that's it's impossible to renew a person to repentance. In today's world, what if a Christian renounced Christ by becoming a Muslim? Would they still be saved or would they fall into the same category as the Hebrews letter warned about?

 

[rwb]

What is man saved from is the question that should/must be addressed.m first in understanding salvation. Scripture tells us we're saved by remission of sins PAST atvrhe point of being baptized into Christ ( see Acts 2:38, Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9).

And it's clear that a person can lose their salvation as can be seen by a casual reading of the Hebrews letter written to converted Jews warning them of the consequences of returning to thrir old beliefs and renouncing Christ after conversion, that's it's impossible to renew a person to repentance. In today's world, what if a Christian renounced Christ by becoming a Muslim? Would they still be saved or would they fall into the same category as the Hebrews letter warned about?

If our ETERNAL salvation could be lost, the life we receive through Christ when we have been born again of His Spirit would not be ETERNAL LIFE. We must understand, ETERNAL LIFE means to receive LIFE that shall NEVER END! Not even death can separate us from the love of God through Christ Jesus when we have been born again of Christ's Spirit. Born again Christians cannot keep themselves eternally saved. No! Rather we rely upon the power of the Spirit of Christ in us, who "works all things together for good to them that love God."

Ro 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Ro 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Ro 8:26 ¶ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Ro 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Ro 8:29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ro 8:31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Ro 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Ro 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Ro 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Ro 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[DJT_47]

If our ETERNAL salvation could be lost, the life we receive through Christ when we have been born again of His Spirit would not be ETERNAL LIFE. We must understand, ETERNAL LIFE means to receive LIFE that shall NEVER END! Not even death can separate us from the love of God through Christ Jesus when we have been born again of Christ's Spirit. Born again Christians cannot keep themselves eternally saved. No! Rather we rely upon the power of the Spirit of Christ in us, who "works all things together for good to them that love God."

Ro 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Ro 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Ro 8:26 ¶ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Ro 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Ro 8:29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ro 8:31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Ro 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Ro 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Ro 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Ro 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Just read the scriptures. It's the words there which are not my words. Read the 3 scriptures plus Hebrews. It's all there. Doesn't matter what you or i or anyone likes or thinks. Complain to God