Why Christian leaders defend Perpetual Virginity of Mary?

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Randy Kluth

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I believe Mary was a Virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, but whether if she remained a perpetual virgin or not is an entirely different question, the birth of Jesus was a miraculous supernatural birth though.

Luke 1:31-35
31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you,and the power of the Most Highwill overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.


Now here are the verses that suggest Jesus had earthly brothers.

Matthew 12:46 and 47
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

Of course we then know what Jesus goes on to reply after that. But verse 46 and 47 to point towards Jesus having half brothers.

Jesus's reply.
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said,Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Now for an interesting question here, do verse 46 and 47 suggest that Jesus's brothers were from Mary?

Well I am part Chinese, and have Chinese-Malaysian born reletives and a Chinese born Grandma, in the Cantonese Chinese language we call our cousins our brothers or sisters. For example I would call one of my older cousins from mum's side in Cantonese "go-go" which means older brother or "jie-jie" which means older sister.

Now in saying this could brothers in verse 46 and 47 refer to Jesus's cousins.

If so, it may mean Mary could have very well stayed a virgin.

Now there is something to think about. ;)

Not really. Reference to "brothers" in the Asian language is not what is meant, in context, in the passage you quoted. It's a language issue, and you shouldn't conflate one language with another in this way.

Jesus had brothers and a Mother. Jesus having a mother doesn't mean his mother is our mother! lol!

Mary was just like any other sinner descended from Adam and Eve. Now Eve can be called "our mother." But neither is she "queen of heaven!" ;)
 

Randy Kluth

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No Ester as queen
David’s mother was queen
Solomon’s mother was queen and there not divine, Mary is not queen by nature but by being the mother of the king who is divine and has a royal kingdom

she is our queen and mother
And we too
Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings andpriests: and we shall reign on the earth.

A word of advice, brother. Defend Christ, but never the Church. The Church is saved by grace--we are not sinless--neither was Mary sinless. She had to repent under the Law of Moses before the cross, and she had to repent in Jesus' name after the cross. She was very humble, and would be outraged that Christians pay her this kind of homage!
 

theefaith

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I'm not dragging "Queen of Heaven" into the topic--I was raised Lutheran, and Mary's designation as "Queen of Heaven" has everything to do with Mariology, which is what the topic obviously meant to express. Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity, and her exaltation over other saints go hand in glove with respect to this topic. Your attempt to avoid this is pure self-serving, in my opinion--you are obviously bent on supporting Mariology, one step at a time.

When you say "Catholics do not worship Mary," how can you know this? Do you know what is in the heart of every Catholic? I believe Mariology is a form of idolatry and does invite Mary worship. It's not only unbiblical--it is wrong.

then explain Luke chapter one
 

theefaith

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How can Jesus be your brother without Mary being your mother?

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!
 

theefaith

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A word of advice, brother. Defend Christ, but never the Church. The Church is saved by grace--we are not sinless--neither was Mary sinless. She had to repent under the Law of Moses before the cross, and she had to repent in Jesus' name after the cross. She was very humble, and would be outraged that Christians pay her this kind of homage!
Why not defend the church? It was founded by Christ on Peter? Matt 16:18
Strange anarchy that accepts the king but not the kingdom He established?
 
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Mungo

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I'm not dragging "Queen of Heaven" into the topic--I was raised Lutheran, and Mary's designation as "Queen of Heaven" has everything to do with Mariology, which is what the topic obviously meant to express. Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity, and her exaltation over other saints go hand in glove with respect to this topic. Your attempt to avoid this is pure self-serving, in my opinion--you are obviously bent on supporting Mariology, one step at a time.

The topic is clearly the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, not Queen of Heave, or the Immaculate Conception or her exaltation over other saints.
Try keeping to the topic and it might get somewhere. It's people like you that want to pile in with their anti-Catholic prejudices that get threads off topic.

Catholics do not worship Mary," how can you know this? Do you know what is in the heart of every Catholic?

So when you accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary how do you know what is in the heart of every Catholic?


I believe Mariology is a form of idolatry and does invite Mary worship. It's not only unbiblical--it is wrong.

Mariology -the part of Christian theology concerned with the Virgin Mary.
How can that possible be idolotry? It is a respectable part of theology.

How is it wrong? Because you disapprove?
 

Mungo

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@Randy Kluth
Congratulations! You have managed to to take the thread off topic before it even go off the ground.
What that your intention?
Just wondering.
 

BreadOfLife

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I'm not dragging "Queen of Heaven" into the topic--I was raised Lutheran, and Mary's designation as "Queen of Heaven" has everything to do with Mariology, which is what the topic obviously meant to express. Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity, and her exaltation over other saints go hand in glove with respect to this topic. Your attempt to avoid this is pure self-serving, in my opinion--you are obviously bent on supporting Mariology, one step at a time.

When you say "Catholics do not worship Mary," how can you know this? Do you know what is in the heart of every Catholic? I believe Mariology is a form of idolatry and does invite Mary worship. It's not only unbiblical--it is wrong.
For @Mungo to say that Catholics do NOT worship Mary is a correct statement.

If a person DOES worship her - or anybody else pother than God - then they are NOT Catholics. They are not Christians of ANY kind - but idolators. The Catholic Church neither teaches Mary worship - nor does it condone Mary-worship. This is an anti-Catholic lie.

As for Mary's Perpetual Virginity - I've been on this forum for many years now - and have not heard ONE Scriptural refutation that made any sense.
Perhaps YOU can provide one?
 
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theefaith

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Yes who is a child of Mary except Jesus?


lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son singular who is God)
 

historyb

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Here we go again.
Catholics do NOT worship Mary.
Queen of Heaven is not mention in the OP.
Whether she had a "Sin Nature" or not is also not mentioned in the OP.

Discussions might work better if people kept to the topic rather than dragging their pet objections to Catholic teaching.

It would be nice but they never will. As @Michie said this place is toxic to us of Traditional Christianity
 
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Truman

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Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
While a prophetic foreshadowing of Yeshua, I believe Isaiah 7:14 speaks of a child born during Isaiah's time. Shalom.
 

justbyfaith

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I stay away from Catholic arguments for the most part.

Because I believe that there is such a thing as a born again Catholic.

Of course, Catholics of this sort are far and few between...they would have to adhere to the biblical view of Ephesians 2:8-9.
 

DNB

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Matthew seems to say there are brothers and sisters. Theologians agree that the book of James was written by Jesus half brother James.
Mary and Joseph had at least 6 other children after they had Jesus, but when the Romans overthrew Jerusalem in 70 CE the genealogical records of the Jews was lost and it is impossible to accurately trace Jewish lineage back to Jesus day.

Matthew 13:55 - Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?

...and it is understood that the book of Jude was also written by another half-sibling of Jesus (Judas). ...but, as you stated, and for various other reasons, such facts or assumptions, mostly derived from tradition, are very difficult to verify.
 
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DNB

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Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
Worst exegesis ever. You misconstrued almost every verse that you quoted, taking each one entirely out of context. You showed a great deal of incompetency here. Your credibility is in question. I'm not trying to ridicule, but rather warn you that espousing one's beliefs in public has serious ramifications on many levels. Be sound and reasonable, and consistent in your hermeneutics, refraining from conjecture and eisegesis. Bring glory to God when you make your exegetical conclusions, .

Mary had vowed to marry Joseph, so that it was already settled in her mind that she would be betrothed to someone other than the Lord. And, was prepared to become unchaste in doing so, to someone other than the Lord. This is where her heart was at, at the time of the annunciation. And thus, the duty of bearing the Son of God did not circumvent her plans with Joseph, but rather, postponed them. Nowhere did Gabriel ever impose this charge upon her, that both her and Joseph must remain virgins until death. Yes, such an injunction directed towards Mary, evidently would have affected Joseph also, but God neither demanded celibacy between them, nor even the annulment of the marriage and all the duties required of husband and wife (1 Corinthians 7:3). All the appellations that were ascribed to Mary, that you quoted, are speaking of the purity of her heart and faith, not her undivided spiritual and physical devotion to God.
 
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Mungo

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I stay away from Catholic arguments for the most part.

Because I believe that there is such a thing as a born again Catholic.

Of course, Catholics of this sort are far and few between...they would have to adhere to the biblical view of Ephesians 2:8-9.

All Catholics are born again and the Catholic Church does teach Eph 2:8-9
And whereas the Apostle saith, that man is justified by faith and freely, those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons: but we are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace. (Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 8).
 
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theefaith

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While a prophetic foreshadowing of Yeshua, I believe Isaiah 7:14 speaks of a child born during Isaiah's time. Shalom.
Mathew would not agree with you?

Matt 1

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.