Why Christians Call Mary the Mother of God.

[Moonwood]

You keep quoting Old Testament. Yes, there was one God in the Old Testament.
Three in the New Testament. To keep thing straight the Apostles would sometimes refer to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1st Corinthians 8:6 One God the Father and One Lord. Yeshua is not the Father.



Again I explained this in post 13. God is a Divine title, not a name. We have God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Miriam is not the mother of Yahweh, she is not the mother of the Holy Spirit. She is the mother to one of the three Gods....so she is the mother of a God.



Yeshua the one true God? Did someone demote Yahweh. Is He a janitor now. Who could have the authority to demote Yahweh? Did someone tell the Holy Spirit to go find another job?

The discussion seems to be drifting away from the original question.

The original issue wasn't whether there is one God or three, nor was it whether you interpret 1 Corinthians 8:6 differently than I do.

The original question was:

Who was Miriam the mother of?

Earlier you said:

"She gave birth to a person and that person was a full-fledged God."

And:

"Yeshua as a Man and Yeshua as a God are not separate, they are one in the same."

Those statements directly answer the question.

If Miriam gave birth to a person, and that person was divine, and His humanity and divinity are not separated into two persons, then I don't see how the title "Mother of God" can be dismissed on the grounds that She was only the mother of His humanity.

You may prefer to say "mother of a god" because of your understanding of the Godhead, but that is a different debate.

My point has always been much simpler:

Miriam was the mother of Yeshua.

Yeshua was not merely a human person.

Therefore Miriam's motherhood extends to the person Yeshua is, not merely to one aspect of His nature.

 

[Grailhunter]

I think that's exactly why I said you're closer to my position than you may realize.

You say:



And:



I agree with both statements.

So we've already established that Miriam gave birth to a person, and that this person was divine.

My point is simply that mothers are mothers of persons, not of abstract qualities or natures.

If Miriam gave birth to Yeshua, and Yeshua is one person whose humanity and divinity are not separate, then the title Mother of God is describing the identity of the person She bore, not claiming that She created His divinity or existed before Him.

Where we still disagree is your use of the phrase "a God" rather than "God." But that is a different debate.

On the original question, you've already affirmed the key point: Miriam gave birth to a person who was divine, and that person was Yeshua.

That's why I said you're much closer to my position than you may realize.

People have been play games with the word God for a long time.
Here is an interesting fact for you. They took Yahweh name out of the Old Testament and replaced it with the word God. Around 6,800 modifications to the scriptures, they should burn in Hell for that.
Actually, the Old Testament scriptures very seldom referred to Yahweh as God. Why. The word God is sort of a generic term in the Old Testament. The Hebrew word or God is the same as god. No distinction with capitalization to the word in the Hebrew. So God could refer to Yahweh or false gods.

 

[Grailhunter]

The discussion seems to be drifting away from the original question.

The original issue wasn't whether there is one God or three, nor was it whether you interpret 1 Corinthians 8:6 differently than I do.

The original question was:

Who was Miriam the mother of?

Earlier you said:



And:



Those statements directly answer the question.

If Miriam gave birth to a person, and that person was divine, and His humanity and divinity are not separated into two persons, then I don't see how the title "Mother of God" can be dismissed on the grounds that She was only the mother of His humanity.

You may prefer to say "mother of a god" because of your understanding of the Godhead, but that is a different debate.

My point has always been much simpler:

Miriam was the mother of Yeshua.

Yeshua was not merely a human person.

Therefore Miriam's motherhood extends to the person Yeshua is, not merely to one aspect of His nature.

Agreed.

 

[Moonwood]

I answered the question. Mary is the birth vessel by whom Christ Jesus was delivered into this world by. Maybe a better term is that Mary was the surrogate mother to birth Christ Jesus.

Calling Mary a "birth vessel" or a "surrogate mother" is not the language of Scripture.

A surrogate mother carries someone else's child. Mary did not carry someone else's child. Jesus received His human nature from Mary. Scripture repeatedly refers to Her as His mother, not as a surrogate or a vessel.

In fact, Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, calls Her "the mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43), not "the vessel of my Lord."

Likewise, Scripture says:

"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary?" (Matthew 13:55)

The biblical writers consistently call Mary the mother of Jesus.

But even setting that aside, your answer still doesn't address my question.

You say Mary delivered Christ Jesus into the world. I agree.

So again: Who is Christ Jesus?

Is He merely a human person?

Or is He the eternal Son of God who became flesh (John 1:14)?

If Christ Jesus is the eternal Son incarnate, then Mary is the mother of the Person who is God the Son in the flesh.

Nobody is claiming Mary created Christ's divine nature, existed before God, or is greater than God. Those are arguments against a position I have never stated.

The issue remains very simple:

Was the One born of Mary God incarnate or not?

If He was, then calling Mary only a "birth vessel" avoids the question rather than answering it. Scripture calls Her His mother, and Scripture identifies Her Son as both Lord (Luke 1:43) and God (John 20:28).

 

[GodsGrace]

I've made my position clear and feel certain that you will not receive anything you have not learned from Catholic tradition.

You're position is not correct and has many flaws and has nothing to do with Catholic tradition.
Do we Protestants believe Jesus is God?


Here are the questions rwb:

1. Is Jesus God?
2. Did Mary birth Him?
3. Is Mary the mother of God?


Or said the way bill Craig would word it:

1. Jesus is God.
2. Mary is His mother.
3. Mary is the mother of God.

Explain again,,,using less words, since many words are not needed when one is in the right,
why Mary is not the mother of God.

PS
Just saw post no. 21 by @Moonwood
She makes an incredibly important statement there.
Will wait for your reply.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mary, whom Jesus called Woman, is the birth vessel who Jesus was delivered into this world by. You stated "Why do "Christians" call her mother of God. That is an error statement as only the Catholic church does. No other denomination does, so it must be norrowed to that one Catholic church denomination.

I hope you know, Rockerduck, that the Catholic faith has been here since the beginning but the other faiths have sprung up only recently.

IOW,,,I doubt Christianityw as dumb until Martin Luther came along.

Also, the way you describe Mary is insulting and humiliating to a woman.
A woman is JUST A VESSEL?

Are you married?
Do you have childredn?
Was your wife only a VESSEL?

Any smart person would come to the conclusion that if Jesus is God...
then Mary is the mother of God.

Any other conclusion puts in jeapordy the title of God given to Jesus.

Maybe He's not God after all?

 

[GodsGrace]

Calling Mary a "birth vessel" or a "surrogate mother" is not the language of Scripture.

A surrogate mother carries someone else's child. Mary did not carry someone else's child. Jesus received His human nature from Mary. Scripture repeatedly refers to Her as His mother, not as a surrogate or a vessel.

In fact, Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, calls Her "the mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43), not "the vessel of my Lord."

Likewise, Scripture says:

"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary?" (Matthew 13:55)

The biblical writers consistently call Mary the mother of Jesus.

But even setting that aside, your answer still doesn't address my question.

You say Mary delivered Christ Jesus into the world. I agree.

So again: Who is Christ Jesus?

Is He merely a human person?

Or is He the eternal Son of God who became flesh (John 1:14)?

If Christ Jesus is the eternal Son incarnate, then Mary is the mother of the Person who is God the Son in the flesh.

Nobody is claiming Mary created Christ's divine nature, existed before God, or is greater than God. Those are arguments against a position I have never stated.

The issue remains very simple:

Was the One born of Mary God incarnate or not?

If He was, then calling Mary only a "birth vessel" avoids the question rather than answering it. Scripture calls Her His mother, and Scripture identifies Her Son as both Lord (Luke 1:43) and God (John 20:28).

Calling Mary a birth vessel, as the other member has done,,,
is not only an offront to the mother of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, God incarnate...
but is an insult to every woman on this forum and a diminution of the title MOTHER,,,
a title that represents the human person that has the goal of continuing the human race.

 

[Rockerduck]

I hope you know, Rockerduck, that the Catholic faith has been here since the beginning but the other faiths have sprung up only recently.

IOW,,,I doubt Christianityw as dumb until Martin Luther came along.

Also, the way you describe Mary is insulting and humiliating to a woman.
A woman is JUST A VESSEL?

Are you married?
Do you have childredn?
Was your wife only a VESSEL?

Any smart person would come to the conclusion that if Jesus is God...
then Mary is the mother of God.

Any other conclusion puts in jeapordy the title of God given to Jesus.

Maybe He's not God after all?

The Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, therefore a surrogate. A doctor didn't do it, the Holy Spirit did. My marriage has nothing to do with your statement. The Son of God needed to come through a birth vessel plain and simple. Mary was a sinner and needed a savior just like you and me. Jesus was fully man and fully God. God formed Jesus in the womb of Mary, so no family traits were given. Palms 139. Women don't pass sin down, only the man passes the sin. In order for Jesus to be born sinless, it had to be through a woman and not spontaneous generation.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, therefore a surrogate. A doctor didn't do it, the Holy Spirit did. My marriage has nothing to do with your statement. The Son of God needed to come through a birth vessel plain and simple. Mary was a sinner and needed a savior just like you and me. Jesus was fully man and fully God. God formed Jesus in the womb of Mary, so no family traits were given. Palms 139. Women don't pass sin down, only the man passes the sin. In order for Jesus to be born sinless, it had to be through a woman and not spontaneous generation.

I know the male passes the sin nature Rockerduck.

What does that have to do with the discussion at hand?

Tell your wife this evening that she was just a vessel when she popped out your children.

But BACK TO TOPIC....

Is Jesus God?
Did Mary birth Him?
So is Mary the mother of God or not?

You see Rocker...we protestants have a problem on our hands here.

Either Jesus is God or He is not.
If He is God. and Mary was the vessel (to use your really horrid term)
then that makes Mary His mother...

since these VESSELS, as you call them - some would call them handmaidens, but that's another discussion -
become mothers,,,that would make Mary HIS MOTHER.

You see.
We can't get around it.

Any other argument besides your emotional one?

 

[rwb]

Here are the questions rwb:

1. Is Jesus God?
2. Did Mary birth Him?
3. Is Mary the mother of God?

Answers:

1. Yes
2. No, Mary gave birth to the man child called Jesus
3. No, God has no mother, Mary is the mother of the man child born of flesh and blood.

3. Mary is the mother of God.

What verse or verses from the Bible teach immortal God who has no beginning or end has a mother?

Scripture affirms that God has no mother because He is not born of a woman. He is the Creator, existing “without father, without mother, without descent” (Hebrews 7:3). This is consistent with the biblical account that “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

 

[Rockerduck]

I know the male passes the sin nature Rockerduck.

What does that have to do with the discussion at hand?

Tell your wife this evening that she was just a vessel when she popped out your children.

But BACK TO TOPIC....

Is Jesus God?
Did Mary birth Him?
So is Mary the mother of God or not?

You see Rocker...we protestants have a problem on our hands here.

Either Jesus is God or He is not.
If He is God. and Mary was the vessel (to use your really horrid term)
then that makes Mary His mother...

since these VESSELS, as you call them - some would call them handmaidens, but that's another discussion -
become mothers,,,that would make Mary HIS MOTHER.

You see.
We can't get around it.

Any other argument besides your emotional one?

No your argument doesn't pass. You keep bringing up a marriage between a man a a woman who pass the genes between each. If your are married and want a baby, you hire a surrogate, that keeps the male gene traits of the family. But, the Holy Spirit did not do it that way. Put your thinking cap on. The Holy Spirit did the miracle not Mary.

 

[rwb]

I know the male passes the sin nature Rockerduck.

What does that have to do with the discussion at hand?

Tell your wife this evening that she was just a vessel when she popped out your children.

But BACK TO TOPIC....

Is Jesus God?
Did Mary birth Him?
So is Mary the mother of God or not?

You see Rocker...we protestants have a problem on our hands here.

Either Jesus is God or He is not.
If He is God. and Mary was the vessel (to use your really horrid term)
then that makes Mary His mother...

since these VESSELS, as you call them - some would call them handmaidens, but that's another discussion -
become mothers,,,that would make Mary HIS MOTHER.

You see.
We can't get around it.

Any other argument besides your emotional one?

How the Bible Explains the Two Natures​

The New Testament presents Jesus as eternally divine yet taking on human flesh at a specific point in history (the Incarnation) This allows Him to:

• Be the perfect mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5)
• Represent humanity in His life, death, and resurrection (Hebrews 2:17)
• Reveal God’s character in a way that is both divine and relatable (John 1:14; Hebrews 1:3)

Theologically, the hypostatic union means Jesus’ divine and human natures are united in one Person without mixing or dividing. He retains all divine attributes (eternity, omnipotence, omniscience) and all genuine human attributes (physical body, emotions, will).

Why This Matters​

According to the Bible, Jesus’ dual nature is essential for salvation:

• As God, He has the authority to forgive sins, conquer death, and reconcile humanity to God.
• As man, He can sympathize with our weaknesses and represent us before God.

In short, the Bible explains that Jesus is one Person—fully God and fully man—because Scripture affirms both His divine identity and His genuine humanity, and because this union is necessary for Him to be the perfect Savior.

 

[rwb]

No your argument doesn't pass. You keep bringing up a marriage between a man a a woman who pass the genes between each. If your are married and want a baby, you hire a surrogate, that keeps the male gene traits of the family. But, the Holy Spirit did not do it that way. Put your thinking cap on. The Holy Spirit did the miracle not Mary.

Exactly! To say that Mary is the mother of God and worshipping her as some do is to commit idolatry. The thing God forbids.

 

[GodsGrace]

No your argument doesn't pass. You keep bringing up a marriage between a man a a woman who pass the genes between each.

I believe the other poster spoke about genes.
Not me.
I believe Mary is the mother of God.
No gene conversation necessary.

If your are married and want a baby, you hire a surrogate, that keeps the male gene traits of the family. But, the Holy Spirit did not do it that way. Put your thinking cap on. The Holy Spirit did the miracle not Mary.

PLease post where I stated that Mary did a miracle.
Also, I'm not discussing HOW Mary became with child.

I'm saying that Mary is the mother of God.

Answers:

1. Yes
2. No, Mary gave birth to the man child called Jesus
3. No, God has no mother, Mary is the mother of the man child born of flesh and blood.

So the reply to the 3 questions: The Green is mine.
1. Yes: Jesus is God, agreed.

2. . No, Mary gave birth to the man child called Jesus
Did this man-child called Jesus grow up?
Was He God at birth or did He become God at some point in His life?

3. No, God has no mother, Mary is the mother of the man child born of flesh and blood.
God has no mother.
So then Jesus is NOT God?
A creature of flesh and blood was born...but he was not God.

See rwb,,,,your replies prove that Jesus is not God.
Some on this forum are happy with your reply.
They agree with you that Jesus is not God.

What verse or verses from the Bible teach immortal God who has no beginning or end has a mother?

Scripture affirms that God has no mother because He is not born of a woman.

Jesus was not born of a woman?
By whom was Jesus born?


You want a verse?

What do we suppose Jesus called His mother as He was growing up?
The NT is not about Mary,,,it's about Jesus.

He is the Creator, existing “without father, without mother, without descent” (Hebrews 7:3). This is consistent with the biblical account that“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

I'm not sure how you connect Genesis 1:1 to this.

But Hebrews 7:3
1For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. 3Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.

Yes, Melchizedek was a Priestly King and is a foreshadowing of Jesus.
But Jesus DID have a mother, Mary and a Father God Father and also an earthly father.
We know the lineage of Jesus.

 

[Behold]

Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, says to Mary:

"And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

In Luke's Gospel, "Lord" is a divine title:

• Luke 1:17 - "the Lord their God"
• Luke 1:76 - "go before the Lord"
• Luke 2:11 - "Christ the Lord"

Later, the Apostle Thomas says directly to Jesus:

"My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)

Elizabeth calls Mary "the mother of my Lord."
Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God."

Thomas makes explicit what Elizabeth had already recognized: the child Mary carried is God the Son incarnate.

That is why Christians call Mary the Mother of God.

The title does not mean Mary created God, existed before God, or is greater than God.

It means the one She bore is truly God in the flesh.

Ultimately, "Mother of God" is not primarily a statement about Mary. It is a confession about who Jesus is.

Here is why CATHOLICS....... pray to MARY. (Mary Cult).
-
-

 

[GodsGrace]

How the Bible Explains the Two Natures​

The New Testament presents Jesus as eternally divine yet taking on human flesh at a specific point in history (the Incarnation) This allows Him to:

• Be the perfect mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5)
• Represent humanity in His life, death, and resurrection (Hebrews 2:17)
• Reveal God’s character in a way that is both divine and relatable (John 1:14; Hebrews 1:3)

Theologically, the hypostatic union means Jesus’ divine and human natures are united in one Person without mixing or dividing. He retains all divine attributes (eternity, omnipotence, omniscience) and all genuine human attributes (physical body, emotions, will).

The above is absolutely correct rwb.
You need to read it again.

Jesus is ONE PERSON,,,,not two.
You are dividing His natures into human and divine.

Jesus was not split in half.

Here is what YOU posted above:
Theologically, the hypostatic union means Jesus’ divine and human natures are united in one Person without mixing or dividing. He retains all divine attributes (eternity, omnipotence, omniscience) and all genuine human attributes (physical body, emotions, will).

Why This Matters​

According to the Bible, Jesus’ dual nature is essential for salvation:

• As God, He has the authority to forgive sins, conquer death, and reconcile humanity to God.
• As man, He can sympathize with our weaknesses and represent us before God.

In short, the Bible explains that Jesus is one Person—fully God and fully man—because Scripture affirms both His divine identity and His genuine humanity, and because this union is necessary for Him to be the perfect Savior.

Again,,,read what you posted:
Jesus is ONE PERSON,,,FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN.

This is the hypostatic union.
Do you know who explained this union?
The same persons that explained that Mary is the Theokosis....
the mother of God.


You either must believe that Jesus is not God in order to maintain your position.
OR
You must admit that the Catholic Church is right...something you are not willing to do.
OR
You must admit that the church has been wrong for 2 thousand years and this brand new teaching (that Jesus didn't have a mother) is correct.

Also, due to your dislike of the Catholic Church,,,you are conflating worshipping Mary with the fact that she is the mother of God.

Two different concepts.

 

[Behold]

The "Roman" Pagan Goddess Diana was/is a """""perpetual Virgin.""""
This is where the "Mary theology" comes from that claims this as a part of their Mary Worship.

Acts 19:27​

27 ""So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worships.""​

A.) """ much of her (Goddess Diana) ethos [beliefs & practices] was transferred to the Virgin Mary. Both figures enjoyed major sanctuaries at Ephesus in 5ad" (Encyclopedia of Gods, Jordan, p. 26). By taking over Diana's Temple as a church for Mary in Ephesus and declaring her "Mother of God" , the Catholic church simply borrowed and adapted ancient (Goddess Diana) Pagan traditions"""

-​

 

[GodsGrace]

How the Bible Explains the Two Natures​

The New Testament presents Jesus as eternally divine yet taking on human flesh at a specific point in history (the Incarnation) This allows Him to:

• Be the perfect mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5)
• Represent humanity in His life, death, and resurrection (Hebrews 2:17)
• Reveal God’s character in a way that is both divine and relatable (John 1:14; Hebrews 1:3)

Theologically, the hypostatic union means Jesus’ divine and human natures are united in one Person without mixing or dividing. He retains all divine attributes (eternity, omnipotence, omniscience) and all genuine human attributes (physical body, emotions, will).

The above is absolutely correct rwb.
You need to read it again.

Jesus is ONE PERSON,,,,not two.
You are dividing His natures into human and divine.

Jesus was not split in half.

Here is what YOU posted above:
Theologically, the hypostatic union means Jesus’ divine and human natures are united in one Person without mixing or dividing. He retains all divine attributes (eternity, omnipotence, omniscience) and all genuine human attributes (physical body, emotions, will).

Why This Matters​

According to the Bible, Jesus’ dual nature is essential for salvation:

• As God, He has the authority to forgive sins, conquer death, and reconcile humanity to God.
• As man, He can sympathize with our weaknesses and represent us before God.

In short, the Bible explains that Jesus is one Person—fully God and fully man—because Scripture affirms both His divine identity and His genuine humanity, and because this union is necessary for Him to be the perfect Savior.

Again,,,read what you posted:
Jesus is ONE PERSON,,,FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN.

This is the hypostatic union.
Do you know who explained this union?
The same persons that explained that Mary is the Theokosis....
the mother of God.


You either must believe that Jesus is not God in order to maintain your position.
OR
You must admit that the Catholic Church is right...something you are not willing to do.
OR
You must admit that the church has been wrong for 2 thousand years and this brand new teaching (that Jesus didn't have a mother) is correct.

Also, due to your dislike of the Catholic Church,,,you are conflating worshipping Mary with the fact that she is the mother of God.

Two different concepts.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is why CATHOLICS....... pray to MARY. (Mary Cult).
-
-

View attachment 92107

You're obsessed.
You need a hobby.
You musta had a really bad experience with a Catholic....

You shouldn't hate your brethren so much.

This is what John said:

1 John 3:14-15
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


This is what Jesus said:

Matthew 5:21-22
21“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’
22“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court;


Matthew 5:43-45
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’
44“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;


And this one I've posted to you many times through the years:

John 13:35
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[Anchorite]

Catholics venerate Mary so much, they venerate her as Mother of God and have elevated her to a divine status. (Note how they capitalize the h in Her).

If Mary is that important, why do the church epistles of Paul, James, John, and Peter never mention her a single time?

You would think that the inspired instructions to the church would say something about Mary, but they are silent.

• • Immaculate Conception: Defined in 1854 by Pope Pius IX, recognizing that Mary was preserved free from original sin from the first moment of her conception.
  • Perpetual Virginity: Affirming her virginity before, during, and after the birth of Christ.
  • Assumption: Defined in 1950 by Pope Pius XII, celebrating her body and soul being taken into heaven at the end of her earthly life.

• Ark of the New Covenant: Compares Mary carrying Jesus in her womb to the ancient Hebrew Ark of the Covenant holding the Word of God.

• Star of the Sea (Stella Maris): An ancient title symbolizing her role as a guiding light for the faithful through life's storms.

• Seat of Wisdom: Honored in the Litany of Loreto, highlighting her intimate union with Christ, the Wisdom of God.

• Refuge of Sinners and Comforter of the Afflicted: Titles expressing her maternal mercy and intercession for humanity in trouble.

• Mediatrix of Grace
• Spouse of the Holy Spirit
• Co-redemptrix