Why didn't god give every soul as much time as it needed to become good? Why send so many to hell?

[O'Darby]

The bible god is evil, even by his own standards. If he was good, then he would give every soul as much time as necessary to turn good and turn to him. Every soul would turn to god, if given enough time to fight the evil within by experience.

It was clearly your intention to provoke, which is fine, and you have received entirely predictable responses.

The Christian model is indeed difficult to explain in emotionally and intellectually satisfying terms and does strike many as being as primitive and barbaric as other ancient religions.

Your thesis that all would turn to the good if given enough time is difficult to sustain. Apart from any Christian theology, the history of the world suggests the opposite. Regardless of whether Christianity is ontologically true, one of the essential truths it captures is that there does indeed seem to be some mysterious propensity toward evil at both the individual and societal levels. Even the smallest, most well-intentioned experiments in communal utopian living have never succeeded - human nature always rears its ugly head.

But you do make a legitimate point that we have been discussing on other threads. Two legitimate objections are that (1) the consequences of not turning to Christ - whether eternal torment or fiery annihilation - do seem extreme for a supposed God of Perfect Holiness, Wisdom, Justice and Love, and (2) it's very clear that the vast majority of people who have ever lived have not received a full and fair opportunity to turn to Christ, which is consistent with the point you're making and again raises doubts about Perfect Holiness, Wisdom, Justice and Love.

Reincarnation, one of the oldest doctrines in human religious thought, would largely resolve these problems, but most Christians aren't willing to entertain that possibility.

The responses you've received are what I call "Christian pabulum." We can't face the real issues, so we say what we think we are supposed to say. We all deserve fiery torment. Everyone has an opportunity to turn to God. It all makes sense. It's all consistent with Perfect Holiness, Wisdom, Justice and Love. Yada yada.

Thinking Christians recognize the issues, wrestle with them, and arrive at some sort of intellectually and emotionally satisfying understanding. I think this has to be done on an individual basis - my understanding may not resonate with anyone else, nor can I force it on anyone else.

I think if you raised these issues in a less dogmatic and intentionally provocative way, you might get more thoughtful responses.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

U misunderstand how powerful good is

You misunderstand the defenition of "good" in scripture as far as being "good enough" to save yourself.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;

 

[Matthias]

“Evil has an expiration date. Jesus Christ is coming.” - Nate Pickowiz

 

[Phoneman777]

The bible god is evil, even by his own standards. If he was good, then he would give every soul as much time as necessary to turn good and turn to him. Every soul would turn to god, if given enough time to fight the evil within by experience.

Every soul has evil and good within itself and the evil parts are dumber than the good parts. Good is smarter than evil, which means if it's given enough time to fight evil, it will eventually eradicate it thru its own orchestra. The bible of course ignores this, by saying that human souls don't deserve as much time as they would need to extinguish the evil within themselves thru the good within themselves.

That implies that the bible is a product of psychopathic intentions that man has long since have falsely portrayed to others as only being "but the bible says I should, which means I should".

The tactics of a psycho/serial killer mind would be to force primitive ideas on others thru barbaric uses of weapons and resources, then to claim to be innocent and not be the culprit. Such is the authors of the bible, who have done just that and have used lame excuses for their serial killer primitive uncontrollable urges.

As I and others have said before, Christianity is a terrorist based cult run primarily by mentally ill psychopaths. A true psychopath would not only be a terrorist, but would also terrorize anything it could out of uncontrollable urges, and would use anything it could access freely as a means to do so. Religion would be the main attraction to do that, because its freely accessible to everyone.

What gives you the idea that the time He gives is insufficient?

The fact that Enoch named his boy "Methuselah" is a prime example of the willingness of our long suffering God to extend mercy to us >>>BEYOND REASON<<< like an ER surgeon who waits in vain to pull the plug on a brain dead patient beyond all earthly hope.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hell is just a holding place for the dead.

Bible says it's where the wicked are cast in and burned up and out of existence where they will "be as though they had not been".

 

[Wrangler]

Bible says it's where the wicked are cast in and burned up and out of existence where they will "be as though they had not been".

That’s Lake of Fire.

 

[Phoneman777]

That’s Lake of Fire.

I agree. However, the events unfold as follows:

• At the glorious Second Coming, the living wicked drop dead "at the brightness of His coming" and join the wicked dead of all ages.
• The dead saints rise to meet Jesus in the clouds, followed by the still living saints.
• All are brought back to heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:14 KJV) with Jesus to reign for 1,000 years with Jesus
• Satan and his demons remain here to behold the cataclysmic results of their plans for a "better way".
• During the 1,000 years, the saints "judge" wicked men and angels by investigating why God left their names out of the Book of Life and afterward will declare "righteous and true are Thy ways".
• After the 1,000 years, New Jerusalem is transported down here, the wicked are raised to a Second Life, stand before the "Great White Throne" as they are shown a panoramic view of their rebellious life including each spurned a Gospel presentation, sentenced to the Second Death, and then cast into the Lake of Fire which will consume not only them, but the entire planet, cleansing it before Jesus makes the new heaven and earth for us.

The Lake of Fire we preach is a lot hotter than what most others say. They claim the wicked merely sizzle in it for all eternity, while we preach the truth that it's so hot it burns them completely up and out of existence.

 

[Wrangler]

They claim the wicked merely sizzle in it for all eternity,

ECT, eternal conscious torment, is not Biblical.

The wages of sin is death - not ECT.

 

[Phoneman777]

ECT, eternal conscious torment, is not Biblical.

The wages of sin is death - not ECT.

Amen amen. The handful of "proof texts" for ECT, among which are the Rich Man and Lazarus, are easily shown to be no support of ECT at all.

 

[Wrangler]

Amen amen. The handful of "proof texts" for ECT, among which are the Rich Man and Lazarus, are easily shown to be no support of ECT at all.

I recall @Aunty Jane asking the question of those who believe in ECT, what kind of God do you worship? What a shame the stories Christians have been brought up to believe.

 

[Phoneman777]

I recall @Aunty Jane asking the question of those who believe in ECT, what kind of God do you worship? What a shame the stories Christians have been brought up to believe.

Was brought up Baptist. Our Immortal Soul/Eternal Torment preacher would give Jonathan Edwards a run for his money. The root of the problem is misinterpretation of texts which can be shown to have a completely different interpretation.

For example:

For if we believe that Jesus died,​

and rose again,​

so them also which sleep in Jesus,​

will God bring with Him"​

This they wrongly interpreted as "bring the dead saints in heaven with Him back to Earth" while refusing to accept this can just as easily mean "bring the resurrected saints with Him back to heaven".

And, if they didn't blind themselves to the characteristic poetic parallelism of the Hebrew authors which fills the Bible, they'd see the parallelism demands we rhyme "bring with Him" with "rose again" so that the passage is simply saying "bring the saints forth from the tomb as God brought Jesus forth from it" - which absolutely disqualifies any possibility of "bring with Him" referring to a celestial road trip from heaven to Earth.

Two objective alternatives, the latter disqualifying their interpretation. The same reasoning can be used to slice and dice the rest of their "proof texts" so one can only wonder why they choose to cling to the nonsense.

 

[Gottservant]

[...]
Go[]d is smarter than evil, which means if it's given enough time to fight evil, it will eventually eradicate it thru its own orchestra. [...]

Who says that God hasn't given enough time? Is eternity over?

 

[St. SteVen]

The bible god is evil, even by his own standards. If he was good, then he would give every soul as much time as necessary to turn good and turn to him. Every soul would turn to god, if given enough time to fight the evil within by experience.

Christian Universalism offers a satisfactory solution to the problem you present here.
Everyone will be given the opportunity, whether in this Age or the next to make things right.
An Age of restoration is coming as part of the judgment.

And this doctrine is not new. It was a popular belief in the early church in the east.
From which we get the Orthodox religion today.

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything,
as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

/

 

[Brakelite]

I recall @Aunty Jane asking the question of those who believe in ECT, what kind of God do you worship? What a shame the stories Christians have been brought up to believe.

It is so very very sad that even thinking Christians cannot get past the idea they've been taught regarding ECT. Despite so much evidence in scripture that directly contradicts ECT, they seem to want to cleave to this concept of a merciless God who delights in suffering and pain. It is so far from the true teachings of God's own testimony as to be unfathomable that anyone can still support it. @Aunty Jane was exactly right to ask the question... Who is the God you believe in? And it seems that @darkspeed6 has been affected by the same virus.

 

[St. SteVen]

As I and others have said before, Christianity is a terrorist based cult run primarily by mentally ill psychopaths.

Well... that seems a bit harsh... But... not without partial merit.
Are you angry at God? I mean the real God.
Not the church-formulated caricature you are rightly criticizing.

Something to consider.

At the risk of seeming callous...
God may have allowed your circumstances for a reason.

I've been there. When we encounter a tough situation we want to escape.
To free ourselves from the pain, aggravation, or discomfort.

Oftentimes God has a better solution than what we can reason on our own.
Moses didn't pray for the Red Sea to open as an escape route. That was God's idea.
Best to present our situation to God to receive his best solution.

I have a card on my desk to remind me of this. It reads: Turn it over to God.
Which means, the PROBLEM, not my SOLUTION.

Why pray for God to CHANGE your circumstances instead of CHANGING you?

/