Why do Catholics…

[Ferris Bueller]

Because you lack faith.

No, because it's absurd!
John 6:55 explains how Jesus is real food. It's a real sacrifice on the altar in heaven from which we are nourished to eternal life.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As I told you before - Jesus ISN'T an idiot - even if YOU think He is.

No, the CATHOLICS are idiots for thinking Jesus was saying you will literally eat his flesh and his blood, instead of what he actually meant by his blood and body being real food (John 6:55).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And it's NOT what "we "Catholics say" about His Body and Blood thatshould worry you.
It's what JESUS Himmself said that you are rejecting.

I know what Jesus meant and I accept it. What I reject is your stupid, earthbound, un-spiritual interpretation of what Jesus said. I can't believe grown, otherwise intelligent people believe such stupid fantasies that the Catholic church teaches.

 

[Jim B]

I know what Jesus meant and I accept it. What I reject is your stupid, earthbound, un-spiritual interpretation of what Jesus said. I can't believe grown, otherwise intelligent people believe such stupid fantasies that the Catholic church teaches.

Great post!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Stop being a moron, lol! I gave you the Biblical reasons why factions exist among the people of God. Your Catholic denomination is no different than other denominations that set up official creeds to keep their particular faction unified and safe from the Biblical things I listed that divide the brethren outwardly.

Spiritually speaking, there is absolute perfect unity of born again believers by virtue of the indwelling Spirit. You can't get any more unified than that. And that's what Jesus was talking about in John 17. But outwardly, the church has tares sown in among the wheat. Assuming the Catholic church does have some true believers in it (and I think there are some) you aren't exempt from having weeds among you, too. You aren't exempt from this Biblical truth. But honestly, the opposite is true for Catholics and, frankly, most non-Catholic congregations - the wheat is sown in among the weeds. The wheat stalks being in far fewer numbers than the weeds that surround them. That's just where we're at in the timeline of human history. To use another analogy, the leaven has almost worked it's way all through the batch of dough.

We're NOT a "denominstion".
The Catholic Church is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered and CONTINUES to splinter into coompeting factions, condemned by passages like 1 Cor. 1:10-13.

As for your claims of "perfect unity of born again believers" - that is complete nonsese.
I already proved that this is NOT the case with the very SHORT list of non-negitialbe doctrines I gave you back in post #926.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Not an "ounce" of evidence?? Do YOU have an an "ounce" of evidence that Gos merely SPOKE and the Universe leapt into existence?

Hear what I'm saying. At least there is an earth in existence from which an argument for it being spoken into existence can be made. But there is no actual, real blood and body of Christ from which to make an argument that it was made to be that from wine and bread. Understand?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I know what Jesus meant and I accept it. What I reject is your stupid, earthbound, un-spiritual interpretation of what Jesus said. I can't believe grown, otherwise intelligent people believe such stupid fantasies that the Catholic church teaches.

It's painfully-obvious that yoy don't.

You are willing to believe that for 1500 years - EVERY Christian wewnt to Hell for idolatry - and that christians ONLY started going to Heaven when yyour Protestant Fathers "corrected" this error.

Now, THAT takes a leap of faith . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We're NOT a "denominstion".

You need to get your head out of...uh...the sand, lol.
You may be the first denomination, but you are indeed a denomination. Actually, the Baptists are probably the very first and most accurate denomination that remains to this day. So get off your high horse.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hear what I'm saying. At least there is an earth in existence from which an argument for it being spoken into existence can be made. But there is no actual, real blood and body of Christ from which to make an argument that it was made to be that from wine and bread. Understand?

It's YOU who doesn't understand.

If I was holding a potato anf Jesus told me that it was a computer - I would believe Him
YOU wouldn't because YOU only trust your senses. I trust in HIM.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's painfully-obvious that yoy don't.

You are willing to believe that for 1500 years - EVERY Christian wewnt to Hell for idolatry - and that christians ONLY started going to Heaven when yyour Protestant Fathers "corrected" this error.

Now, THAT takes a leap of faith . . .

Oh, good grief! Why are you adding this junk to the discussion?

Catholics are going to hell because they think justification/salvation is a payment owed them for the performance of righteous work, not because of their ridiculous beliefs about the Elements. Their ridiculous beliefs about Mary and the Communion elements, for example, are really just a result of their Spirit-less, erroneous beliefs about salvation. IOW, Catholics aren't saved in the first place to even know the truth about these matters that they have twisted into Catholic mythological fantasies. I'm speaking generally, of course. I do believe there may be a scant few who attend Catholic churches that know that salvation is a gift given on the basis of faith in God's forgiveness, not as a debt owed for religious performance.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You need to get your head out of...the sand, lol.
You may be the first denomination, but you are indeed a denomination. Actually, the Baptists are probably the very first and most accurate denomination that remains to this day. So get off your high horse.

And yet, they can only trace their existence back to John Smith in 1609.

Ignatius of Antioch - 107AD:
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2)

 

[RedFan]

And yet, they can only trace their existence back to John Smith in 1609.

Ignatius of Antioch - 107AD:
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2)

I doubt that Ignatius meant by Καθολικὴ Ἐκκλησία (his words) what you would call the "Roman Catholic Church," @BreadOfLife.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh, good grief! Why are you adding this junk to the discussion?

Catholics are going to hell because they think justification/salvation is a payment owed them for the performance of righteous work. Their ridiculous beliefs about Mary and the Communion elements, for example, are really just a result of their Spirit-less, erroneous beliefs about salvation. IOW, Catholics aren't saved in the first place to even know the truth about these matters that they have twisted in Catholic mythological fantasies. I'm speaking generally, of course. I do believe there may be a scant few who attend Catholic churches that know that salvation is a gift given on the basis of faith in God's forgiveness, not as a debt owed for religious performance.

If Catholics WORSHIP the Eucharist as Jesus - and it is only bread and wine - then that is IDOLATRY.
The puunushment for idolatry is Hell.

So - YOU are willing to believe that for 1500 years - EVERY Christian wewnt to Hell for idolatry - and that christians ONLY started going to Heaven when yyour Protestant Fathers "corrected" this error.

This is the most spiritually-arrogant thing I've read on this forum so far.
Those Early Church Fathers who ALSO worshipped the Eucharist were the SAME guys who compiled the Scriptures, declared the Canon and passed on othe teachings of the Apostles down through the centuries.

The fact that that a spiritually-arrogant little voice on in internet like YOU believe they are all in Hell makes me KNOW that I'm on the right team . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's YOU who doesn't understand.

If I was holding a potato anf Jesus told me that it was a computer - I would believe Him

And you would be a moron for believing that, lol.
If and when it becomes an actual computer that's when it's a computer.
Just as the world actually being in existence supports the possibility of any argument being made that God spoke it into existence. UNDERSTAND? Probably not.

When your bread and wine actually become real human blood and flesh as you say it does then you can argue that it was changed into that from wine and bread. But until then, there is no change occurring for you to even argue that it has been changed.

Even a person who has received a healing by faith HAS THE HEALING ITSELF FROM WHICH TO ARGUE THAT THE HEALING IS FOR REAL AND FROM GOD. UNDERSTAND? But you have NOTHING from which to argue that your wine and bread have been changed into real flesh and blood. NOTHING. It's all in your imagination, planted there by a very corrupt church leadership that you blindly follow. To the point of even believing fantasies.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If Catholics WORSHIP the Eucharist as Jesus - and it is only bread and wine - then that is IDOLATRY.

Honestly, that sounds like a stretch to me.
It's just plain ignorance and meaningless doctrine, which the Catholic leadership traps and exploits people with. And that's what the real danger is about it.

 

[Taken]

I know what Jesus meant and I accept it. What I reject is your stupid, earthbound, un-spiritual interpretation of what Jesus said. I can't believe grown, otherwise intelligent people believe such stupid fantasies that the Catholic church teaches.

Catholicism is a strange cult, teaching, Without knowledge of God, Without confession of Belief in God, A Priest can pour water over a baby’s head, say a few words and Declare that baby has RECEIVED a Born Again Spirit.
~ I have personally spoken with Catholics, claiming they were virtually born Catholic at infancy. Done deal, have their ticket to heaven. And no need to attend Church, except for big event Holidays, and can scoot over for “forgiveness” for heinous crimes, and thereafter rest assured.
And a must to get a Priest for that last assuredness when on ones death bed.
~ Despite the endless gimmicks, Catholic Church attendance, Bible Study groups, per ages and genders fails in comparison to Protestant Churches attendance, Protestant Bible study groups, per ages and genders.
~ And to no big surprise Politically, Republicans are more favorably Protestant than Democrats more favorably Catholics.
~ And a historical trend on the Race/ black/white, was surprising on some fronts of a divide of whites primarily favoring Republicans and blacks primarily favoring Democrats....Rather strange per history, of staunch political Democrats Against black equalities.
...Tides turning. Blacks/Whites no longer in masses Lending a Ear to Politico’s perpetuating and dictating they must be divided.

Coming to the Lord, Jesus’ Religion, Jesus’ Doctrine, is not filled with Gimmicks, Tricks, Rituals, Bowing down to men and plaster images.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jim B]

If Catholics WORSHIP the Eucharist as Jesus - and it is only bread and wine - then that is IDOLATRY.
The puunushment for idolatry is Hell.

So - YOU are willing to believe that for 1500 years - EVERY Christian wewnt to Hell for idolatry - and that christians ONLY started going to Heaven when yyour Protestant Fathers "corrected" this error.

This is the most spiritually-arrogant thing I've read on this forum so far.
Those Early Church Fathers who ALSO worshipped the Eucharist were the SAME guys who compiled the Scriptures, declared the Canon and passed on othe teachings of the Apostles down through the centuries.

The fact that that a spiritually-arrogant little voice on in internet like YOU believe they are all in Hell makes me KNOW that I'm on the right team . . .

Back to front...

The "right team"? What kind of foolishness is that? We are all on the same team. It's you Catholics who have decided that there are different "teams", but Scripture says that the church -- all believers -- are the body of Christ.
and
Your comment about all Christians going to hell for idolatry is total nonsense. It's a horrible belief that the Catholic denomination decides who is going to hell and who isn't. The Catholic denomination, from the (unScriptural) Pope on down, is NOT and never will be God!!!

The bread and wine are -- ready??? -- bread and wine. They are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus; they are not Him. Jesus said to eat the bread and drink the wine to remember Him. a) He never preached cannibalism and b) shared the bread and wine with Judas. By your false doctrine, Judas became one with Jesus, therefore, Jesus betrayed Himself!!!

Finally, what right does the Catholic denomination have to deny the bread and wine to non-Catholics? Are you playing God???

 

[Taken]

And you would be a moron for believing that, lol.
If and when it becomes an actual computer that's when it's a computer.
Just as the world actually being in existence supports the possibility of any argument being made that God spoke it into existence. UNDERSTAND? Probably not.

When your bread and wine actually become real human blood and flesh as you say it does then you can argue that it was changed into that from wine and bread. But until then, there is no change occurring for you to even argue that it has been changed.

Even a person who has received a healing by faith HAS THE HEALING ITSELF FROM WHICH TO ARGUE THAT THE HEALING IS FOR REAL AND FROM GOD. UNDERSTAND? But you have NOTHING from which to argue that your wine and bread have been changed into real flesh and blood. NOTHING. It's all in your imagination, planted there by a very corrupt church leadership that you blindly follow. To the point of even believing fantasies.

Agree.
The eat and drink was never about the bread and wine.
The eat and drink is a daily thing people do!
The teaching is about, REMEMBER what JESUS did for us.
Hey, here’s an idea.
Every day you eat and drink without needing to Remember to do so.
When you eat and drink, at the same time, is a sufficient TIME,
To KEEP JESUS in your REMEMBRANCE!
Thus the teaching has been historically;
Remember JESUS when you eat and drink.
Thus the teaching has been historically;
....calling that Remembrance...GRACE.
Remembering Gods GRACE to give us JESUS.
Remembering JESUS who offered, and gives the Willing, Forever Life with God.

The parading IN the Church Of Bread and Wine...has its man made Limits and Twisting.
Who can participate? Church members.
Who is prohibited? The divorced?
Who can we Pretend was never married, thus never divorced, and thus OVERRULE their own rules? Catholics.
Who can we Pretend is ABOVE the rules? The Famous? Power sitters that are useful for favors? Does Biden, Famous, Power sitter, pro-abortion, married to a divorced woman, ring a bell.

Protestant Churches are not Political enclaves.
Catholic Churches are both Religious and Political enclaves.

You have to be a complete idiot, to not know, any organization overseeing a Political enclave by the selfish nature of manKIND, IS a backstabbing, underhanded, backroom, dirty dealing Business.
That has been going on for centuries, regarding Catholics, same with Muslims whose Religious and Political enclaves are intertwined.

Ever notice, not much chatter about the Politico aspects and “history” thereof regarding Catholics?
Nothing whatsoever even hints that was Peter’s mission or accomplishments.
But on a parallel, regarding Muhammad. He is regarded as a Prophet and a Warrior...Religious and Political.

Just sharing,
Taken

 

[RedFan]

Finally, what right does the Catholic denomination have to deny the bread and wine to non-Catholics? Are you playing God???

I think 1 Corinthians 11:29 is trumpeted by the RCC as support for this position. And arguably, if you believe that only Roman Catholic views on the Eucharist can avoid that type of condemnation, Paul's comments might be decent support (although Paul may actually have had something quite different in mind; it's one on a long list of things -- a VERY long list! -- that I plan to ask him about if I see him in heaven!).

 

[BreadOfLife]

I doubt that Ignatius meant by Καθολικὴ Ἐκκλησία (his words) what you would call the "Roman Catholic Church," @BreadOfLife.

Your are correct.
There is NO "Roman" Catholic Church.

"Roman" or "Latim" simply refers to name of the largest Liturgical Rite of the Catholic Church. There are about TWENTY, which in clude the Melkite, Maronite, Byzantine, Anticcjan, Coptic, etc.
We are the ONE Catholic Church - and ALL of these Liturgical Rites are in FULL Communion.

Ignatius was talking about THIS Church. DON'T believe me?
Asl yourself the following:
Does YOUR sect -
- Follow your bishop, eas obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father??
- Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles??
- Give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God??
- Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction??
- Recognize that the sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him?? -- CALL itself, the "Catholic Church"??

That's what I thought . . .