Why Do Christians Not Honor The Sabbath?

[excubitor]

I guess we are mostly in agreement. If the church has no authority to change the sabbath observance from the seventh day to the 1st/8th day then we should all still be keeping the Sabbath.

The church gives an authoritative interpretation of the scripture to demonstrate from Acts 2

Where we disagree of course is that you believe that the church has no such authority and that it is immaterial what the church teaches on the matter.
I believe that the church has this great authority having received it from Jesus Christ himself. Jesus as Lord of the Sabbath has the authority to change its observance from the 7th to the 8th day to differentiate the new Christian observance from the old Jewish one. Christ passed this authority on to the apostles and to the church.

Therefore the church also has the authority to invent a festival for Christmas and to move the days of pasch to coincide with the days of the week that our Lord died and was resurrected. And the authority to define a doctrine of the Trinity. Amongst many other things that the church has passed judgement upon over a great many generations.

Hmmm . . .Christianity, eh? How come SO MANY Christians believe the Bible says what it does not? But, they do, nevertheless. They take in like a sponge what they hear but rarely do any actual STUDY for themselves. They absorb like a sponge what they hear with regard to homosexuality ;) (that was for Rex) and they do it with the Sabbath/Sunday issue. That the RCC determined that Sunday was 'the Lord's day' is immaterial. That does not make it so. The Bible never makes such a reference. Jesus Himself tells us that 'the Sabbath' is 'the Lord's day'. In Luke 6:1-11 Jesus clearly indicates that 'The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.' So ...what IS the day that Jesus is Lord of? The Sabbath! The Sabbath is 'the Lord's day'! Nothing to do with Sunday. Also, a text presented previously, Isaiah 58:13: "If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath ...if you call the LORD'S holy day honorable ..." Here we have it again. The Lord's day is the Sabbath, no ifs, ands, or buts! But, what is the point of all of this? Christians will still continue to bleat that the Lord's day is Sunday with no scriptural backing whatever. <sigh>

 

[Pelaides]

There is something to be said for a good diet...but teaching error does cut down life expectancy in the eternal aspect.

Who is in error?me,or the sevenday adventists,please elaborate.

 

[KCKID]

I guess we are mostly in agreement. If the church has no authority to change the sabbath observance from the seventh day to the 1st/8th day then we should all still be keeping the Sabbath.

The church gives an authoritative interpretation of the scripture to demonstrate from Acts 2

Where we disagree of course is that you believe that the church has no such authority and that it is immaterial what the church teaches on the matter.
I believe that the church has this great authority having received it from Jesus Christ himself. Jesus as Lord of the Sabbath has the authority to change its observance from the 7th to the 8th day to differentiate the new Christian observance from the old Jewish one. Christ passed this authority on to the apostles and to the church.

Therefore the church also has the authority to invent a festival for Christmas and to move the days of pasch to coincide with the days of the week that our Lord died and was resurrected. And the authority to define a doctrine of the Trinity. Amongst many other things that the church has passed judgement upon over a great many generations.

Hmmm . . .interesting. So, what you're saying is that the Roman Catholic Church and its figurehead (the Pope=God on earth) really has usurped the power of God? As said, interesting.

Who is in error?me,or the sevenday adventists,please elaborate.

It MUST be you! The Seventh-day Adventist Church could not possible be in error! ;)

Seriously, when it comes to topics such as this that also involve scripture, everyone is in error and everyone is also right.

What I see for many years is that these sabbath debates are started by denominations who feel Saturday is the "true" sabbath

Technically they are correct but that is beside the point.

The sad point is they spend much of their Christian lives with their arse in a knot telling us how bad we Sunday people are.

Probably if we wanted to observe a day of rest and reflection on God ..... we could work from Thursday to Tuesday and take every Wednesday off to do it .... we have at least fulfilled the "intent" of the sabbath.

So the whole argument comes down to Sundays or Saturdays or Wednesdays .... as though it requires an exact day on our Gregorian calendars or something.

How long have our Gregorian calendars been around ? .... started in the 1500's and was fully accepted worldwide in the 1920's

How long since God rested on the seventh day ? ..... at least 6000 years ago

How many days on the Hebrew calendar ? .... 360 .... then they fiddle and "disappear" the "extra" 5 or so days

The Gregorian calendar uses a 365 day year but then has to add a leap year every once in a while.

If we had accurate records from God's actual seventh day of rest in Genesis .... we could probably nail down the exact day today

And for all we know it could be a Wednesday on our calendar

There goes the Saturday theory out the door

While all the above might be true - or not - we don't really have to go back 6000 years. I think that the Jews have been pretty faithful to their Sabbath-keeping from the time of Jesus (and long before) to the present. I don't think that there is any doubt which day is 'the scriptural Sabbath'. So, that perhaps sends YOUR theory out of the door . . . ;)

 

[Rex]

Say KCKID just what is it your faithful to?

Your quick to condemn every aspect of Christianity, maybe justly so maybe not, but just what do you believe.
Where has the world gone wrong in your opinion?

 

[excubitor]

Far be it from me to claim that the Pope is God on earth. What a disgraceful thing to believe. Do Catholics really believe that?
However I think that most protestants would admit that at the time that the creeds were being formulated and the great battles against heresies which attacked the church, the popes and the councils of the church did have a significant role to play in those battles.

It is also erroneus to say that popes instituted Sunday worship. It was around even in NT with gentile Christians meeting on the first day of the week. It seems like something that the apostles supported and there is no record of any dispute among Christians in the first centuries of the church as Sunday worship was commonly practiced.

When I have been using the terminology of church in this context I have been meaning the rule of the apostles and the general practice of all the members of the universal church in both East and West.

Hmmm . . .interesting. So, what you're saying is that the Roman Catholic Church and its figurehead (the Pope=God on earth) really has usurped the power of God? As said, interesting.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

While all the above might be true - or not - we don't really have to go back 6000 years. I think that the Jews have been pretty faithful to their Sabbath-keeping from the time of Jesus (and long before) to the present. I don't think that there is any doubt which day is 'the scriptural Sabbath'. So, that perhaps sends YOUR theory out of the door . . . ;)

Actually I dont have a theory .... my point is that from creation to now there has been over 2,190,000 days and 300,000 Sabbaths .... and it would be quite remarkable if the count has been kept accurate right up until this Saturday on our modern calendar.

Not saying it would be impossible .... but it would mean they kept the sabbath days when they were worshiping golden calves and other such periods of disobedience .... or at least made note of when the sabbath should be.

Then again , I suppose when Jesus was here debating the sabbath he would have corrected them if they had the wrong day of the week.

I do not have any sabbath day issues ..... the friction generally comes from SDA & WWCG groups , not me,

 

[Selene]

God linked the Jewish Sabbath to the Old Creation where God created everything for 6 days and rested on the 7th day. While it is true that observing the Sabbath is in the Ten Commandments, it is also a covenant between the Jewish people and God.

Exodus 31:16-17 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Because the Sabbath became a covenant, it is the only one of the Ten Commandments that can be changed. The other commandments cannot be changed because they were not covenants. Circumcision, for example, was ALSO a covenant, and because it was a covenant, Christians did not need to follow this Jewish covenant of circumcision. For Christians, Christ is the New Covenant.

Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

As Christians, we are no longer part of the Old Covenant and the Old Creation which was linked with the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday). We are now part of the New Covenant and part of the New Creation, which is linked with the Lord's Day (Sunday - the day of Christ's resurrection).

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: [fn] The old has gone, the new is here!

Christ rose from the dead on the "first day of the week." Because it is the "first day" of Christ's resurrection, it recalls the first Creation. Sunday is also the "eighth day" following the Sabbath; therefore, it symbolized the New Creation ushered in by Christ's resurrection. In the Old Testament, God also blessed the eighth day......a foreshadow of the New Creation that will come from Christ's resurrection. According to the Old Testament, the first and eighth day was also a Sabbath.....a foreshadow of God's plan of salvation.

Leviticus 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day [shall be] a sabbath, and on the eighth day [shall be] a sabbath.

The Apostle Paul said that the the Jewish Sabbath was only a shadow of things that were to come in Christ.

Colossians 2:16-17 So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

 

[excubitor]

This is truly absurd. Every now and then I forget what day of the week it is but someone is always close by to remind me? What would cause the entire world to forget what day of the week it was all at the same time? Totally impossible.

Actually I dont have a theory .... my point is that from creation to now there has been over 2,190,000 days and 300,000 Sabbaths .... and it would be quite remarkable if the count has been kept accurate right up until this Saturday on our modern calendar.

Not saying it would be impossible .... but it would mean they kept the sabbath days when they were worshiping golden calves and other such periods of disobedience .... or at least made note of when the sabbath should be.

Then again , I suppose when Jesus was here debating the sabbath he would have corrected them if they had the wrong day of the week.

I do not have any sabbath day issues ..... the friction generally comes from SDA & WWCG groups , not me,

 

[ericrun]

Hmmm . . .interesting. So, what you're saying is that the Roman Catholic Church and its figurehead (the Pope=God on earth) really has usurped the power of God? As said, interesting.

KCKID,

How is the Peter exercizing the authority given to him to bind an loosen on earth and heaven an abuse? Unless you believe that the Church doctored that passage of scripture to claim something Jesus didn't authorize, could you explain how Peter didn't have the authority to make a binding change to the Sabbath?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Seriously, when it comes to topics such as this that also involve scripture, everyone is in error and everyone is also right.

A typical relativistic, postmodern, deconstructionist response. Truth is relative to such minds, yet they so insist their truth is absolute. Hypocrisy seeking relevance.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

This is truly absurd. Every now and then I forget what day of the week it is but someone is always close by to remind me? What would cause the entire world to forget what day of the week it was all at the same time? Totally impossible.

The entire world was not comprised of religious Jews observing the Jewish Sabbath

 

[Axehead]

Actually I dont have a theory .... my point is that from creation to now there has been over 2,190,000 days and 300,000 Sabbaths .... and it would be quite remarkable if the count has been kept accurate right up until this Saturday on our modern calendar.

Not saying it would be impossible .... but it would mean they kept the sabbath days when they were worshiping golden calves and other such periods of disobedience .... or at least made note of when the sabbath should be.

Then again , I suppose when Jesus was here debating the sabbath he would have corrected them if they had the wrong day of the week.

I do not have any sabbath day issues ..... the friction generally comes from SDA & WWCG groups , not me,

Are you counting the 3 different Sabbaths or just the weekly sabbath?

 

[excubitor]

The entire world was not comprised of religious Jews observing the Jewish Sabbath

In fact it was. The disciples went first to the Jews in all the nations of the diaspora, preaching in synagogues in every town and city on the sabbath days. This is why Jesus said. Salvation is of the Jews.
and Paul said. "the gospel of Christ: is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

As a result, the hot topic throughout the Christian world was whether or not circumcision was required of the gentiles. Surely we can all tell that if the gentiles are not required to be circumcised then they should not also be required to keep the Sabbath. In fact, circumcision was by far the more important Jewish observance. That commandment started with Abraham and so supersedes Moses.


In fact, when the circumcision debate was decided there was NO rule given for the gentiles except that they avoid fornication and the eating of blood and food sacrificed to idols. This commandment was given out of consideration for the sensibilities of the Jews in every city and town throughout the world. Notice that no commandment was ever given or ever even suggested that the gentiles should be required to keep the Sabbath. Not even the Jews of that day thought to even suggest it.

Why then do you seek to bring people under the bondage of Sabbath keeping when the apostles at the Council of Jerusalem never required it?

Sad fact is that there are some pretty odd pseudo-christian sects and cults that actually think that they are Jews or descendants of Israel. Sorry to break it to you but we are GENTILES who have converted and become Christians. That is the fact of the matter and as such there is no requirement for us to keep the Jewish laws.

In fact converting Jews are also liberated from the requirements of the law as is clearly stated in the book of Galatians.
tand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

But the church explains that the 4th commandment of the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christian Sunday worship, which is the perfect fulfillment and expression of that commandment. The format of that Sunday worship is church attendance during that day. Ceasing from work if at all possible. Getting rest and recreation. Building relationships with family and friends. Dedicating time in prayer. But even that is not legalistic. If you need to work you can, no prescription is made as to how much prayer. We can even apply our discretion as to whether we go to church. Some churches require you to go to church unless you are sick or are caring for the sick, others strongly encourage but do not prescribe church attendance. So it is certainly not a legalistic observance in the manner the original Jewish sabbath. Because as Christ the Lord of the Sabbath said . The sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In fact it was. The disciples went first to the Jews in all the nations of the diaspora, preaching in synagogues in every town and city on the sabbath days. This is why Jesus said. Salvation is of the Jews. ..

No that's not what he meant AT ALL. The Greek actually says salvation is out of the Judeans. Salvation is Christ who was born out of the tribe of Judah.

Salvation is out of the tribe of Judah, but salvation is of the Christ. The 'out of' was a one time occurrence; the 'of' is for all time. Big difference.

 

[excubitor]

You are wrong but that was only one sentence out of all that I wrote. What do you say about all the rest of what i wrote?

No that's not what he meant AT ALL. The Greek actually says salvation is out of the Judeans. Salvation is Christ who was born out of the tribe of Judah.

Salvation is out of the tribe of Judah, but salvation is of the Christ. The 'out of' was a one time occurrence; the 'of' is for all time. Big difference.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are wrong but that was only one sentence out of all that I wrote. What do you say about all the rest of what i wrote?

I addressed that one sentence because it perpetuates a destructive myth.

The rest of your post was very good, especially the part about the Council of Jerusalem. That was a very, very good comment.

 

[excubitor]

I addressed that one sentence because it perpetuates a destructive myth.

The rest of your post was very good, especially the part about the Council of Jerusalem. That was a very, very good comment.

Thanks,
I really cannot see any difference between 'Salvation is of the Jews' and 'Salvation is out of the Jews'.
Your claim that 'Salvation is of the Jews' implies or advances any other notion than that Salvation came out of the Jews through Christ is just false. Salvation is of the Jews means that there was an elect of the Jews who believed in Christ and out of which the Christian church sprouted bringing salvation to the entire world. All of the apostles were Jews. Christ was a Jew. All the prophets were Jews. To claim that 'Salvation is of the Jews' means some salvation comes for ever out of the physical nation of the Judaean's is utterly wrong and I deny that anybody who uses the phrase 'Salvation is of the Jews' is in anyway trying to advance such a notion.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Thanks,
I really cannot see any difference between 'Salvation is of the Jews' and 'Salvation is out of the Jews'.
Your claim that 'Salvation is of the Jews' implies or advances any other notion than that Salvation came out of the Jews through Christ is just false. Salvation is of the Jews means that there was an elect of the Jews who believed in Christ and out of which the Christian church sprouted bringing salvation to the entire world. All of the apostles were Jews. Christ was a Jew. All the prophets were Jews. To claim that 'Salvation is of the Jews' means some salvation comes for ever out of the physical nation of the Judaean's is utterly wrong and I deny that anybody who uses the phrase 'Salvation is of the Jews' is in anyway trying to advance such a notion.

The Greek word means Judean, ie, a resident of the land of Judah or a descendent of Judah. It was only applied to all Israelites much later in history.

Jesus was a Judean; the disciples weren't. They were Israelites from other tribes. This was how they looked at things. The prophets foretold that a branch would spring forth from the tribe of Judah and make a new covenant with the house of Israel. That happened the night before passover when Jesus was crucified.

Some people actually do advance the notion that you said nobody does.

 

[dragonfly]

To claim that 'Salvation is of the Jews' means some salvation comes for ever out of the physical nation of the Judaean's is utterly wrong and I deny that anybody who uses the phrase 'Salvation is of the Jews' is in anyway trying to advance such a notion.

Brother excubitor,

Very many North American Christians and elsewhere in the world, are being taught that the olive tree in Romans 11 is national Israel, not Christ.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I do not have any sabbath issues , never have

But some people do , and they insist next Saturday is the true Sabbath , not next Sunday

I do not have any problem if Saturday really is the proper Sabbath.

But my question to the Saturday-Sabbath-Purist is ......... "how do you know for sure that next Saturday is the exact multiple of seven day periods from the time the Sabbath law was given to Moses ?"

By-guess or by-golly or by-assumption ?

How long has mankind kept any type of calender "

How many different calendars have their been ?

Was there not a day that "stood still'' in the OT ?

How do we know that "our Saturday" is indeed "Moses Sabbath" accurately carried forward.

Like I said .... it really doesn't matter to me ...... however I feel it is a worthy question to ask the Saturday-Sabbath-Purist who tries to preach that he alone knows when the real sabbath day is.

I have never received a convincing answer .