I cant believe these conversations go this long lol. I cant wait until we get to heaven and theres no more debates, Only Truth when it comes to discussion
Why Do Christians Not Honor The Sabbath?
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And 'the truth' is that MAN took a commandment of God, scrapped it, and initiated his own command. Does that sit well with you?Inmate said:
Such strong and hateful untruths toward someone you don't know personally who has NOT been demeaning, condescending or abusive to anyone on the forum. It's not in my nature to do those things. All I have done is to attempt to counter the arguments with scripture that, to many,'the Sabbath' has pretty well become a figment of their imaginations and that it does not actually exist in the physical world. This makes no sense according to how I read the Bible. Those post-Jesus - including Paul - kept the Sabbath in the manner asked of them in the 4th-command. It was not a 'mind thing' for them but something they did customarily every week. I've asked legitimate questions of you that not only have you refused to answer but have instead hurled insults at me. Unfortunately, these kind of responses are typical from those who feel threatened ...they lash out rather than face the notion that they might be wrong. If any 'sin' weighs more than the rest, pride would probably be it. Yes, I am a hypocrite at times, I admit that, but I am doing better these days in dealing with that human failing. Just be careful with your finger pointing, CRFTD ...the tone of your posts really don't paint such a pretty picture of you.ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
You are OP, right? (Original Poster). What you have seen, is what I commonly come across. There is no set reason for avoiding the Seventh Day Sabbath in many Christian minds. The reasons range from the Sabbath Day being changed, to Jesus being our Sabbath, and the most horrific one, the Sabbath being completely abrogated. All of which face the same issue: The refusal to literally keep the day specified, even though they literally and spiritually keep the other commandments. They do not agree that in the literal sense the Sabbath should be kept.KCKID said:
Are you a Sabbath Keeper? If so, you will think the same question I think. "Why don't they see it...?" Rest assured, the same question comes across some of their minds. Nonetheless, seeds of truth have been planted, and God will water the seeds when He sees fit.
What follows is the mentality of most Sunday Keepers.
Commandment Number Literally Keep it? Spiritually Keep it?
ONE YES YES
TWO YES YES
THREE YES YES
FOUR NO YES
FIVE YES YES
SIX YES YES
SEVEN YES YES
EIGHT YES YES
NINE YES YES
TEN YES YES
It is that NO which must be made BLATANTLY obvious to them. Ask if it's wrong to spiritually break any of the commandments. Without a doubt, they'll say yes. Then ask if it's wrong to literally break any of the commandments.
James 2:10 - For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, is guilty of all.
Literally is the outward show, but inwardly is the spiritual show, which God looks at. What some fail to realize, is that you cannot claim to keep something "spiritually", if you LITERALLY refuse to keep it. If you literally refuse to stop worshiping idols, you cannot turn around and say you're spiritually keeping the 2nd Commandment, therefore what you are doing is valid. You cannot literally refuse not to steal; to go to the corner store and steal food and money, but then claim to be spiritually keeping the commandment. Likewise, you cannot literally refuse to keep the Sabbath Day, and yet turn around and claim to be keeping it spiritually. Would it make sense if someone literally cheated on their wife, yet claimed that the whole time they were thinking of their spouse, and thus they were spiritually keeping the commandment? Silly questions. Yet I must ask these questions, to point out the fact that you cannot SPIRITUALLY claim to keep the 7th Day Sabbath, while LITERALLY refuse to keep it. It makes absolutely no sense. And thus, I end with one of my favorite verses:
Revelation 14:12 - Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Would you please explain to me why those who militantly cling to their "Sunday-sabbath" (and many do!) and expect others to follow suit are any less a 'stumbling block' to those who believe that Saturday is the Sabbath of the Bible? You do realize, mjrhealth, that the majority of Christians believe that they ARE keeping the 4th-command when they make Sunday their 'holy day', do you not? Ask most Christians which day is the Sabbath and they will undoubtedly respond with "Sunday." Obviously, this does not make them bad people and, as far as I know, it makes no difference to their salvation. It does, however, have everything to do with obedience and Christians claim obedience to God. As for your 'it is no debate, it is about truth and lie' ...that's just the point. Most Christians believe Sunday to be the Sabbath. That's a lie, no ifs, ands or buts. Perhaps you should be just as adamant about 'the real Sabbath' not being something to be observed in the physical world but in the mind of the believer (which, for the hundredth time, makes no sense) toward those who believe that they are honoring the Sabbath every Sunday. I would suggest that this would be the majority of the Christians on this forum.mjrhealth said:
As usual ...an interesting and thoughtful post. I highlighted the Revelation 14:12 scripture in the hope of getting a response from those who either deny the 4th-command or who otherwise believe that they are keeping the 4th-command spiritually. Keeping the commandments literally appears to be what this text is saying.Raeneske said:
Anyone ...?
There are many who dont keep either. just just rest in there Lord and dont bother with such things. and they follow Jesus alone no time for religion.
Oh they have the same problem you do just different day.
In all His love
I personally have never known a non-SDA Christian that doesn't keep Sunday as a 'holy day', They BELIEVE - whether by design or custom - that Sunday is the Sabbath of the 4th-commandment. SO, I have never known a Christian who believes as you do that the Sabbath is spiritual and not literal. The Sunday Sabbath is absolutely literal to most Christians and you must know that. So, based on the fact that the majority of Christians trot off to their churches every Sunday believing that they are keeping the biblical Sabbath you must also know that you are in an extreme minority re your belief. How does it feel to know that you are among the very few that are in step with the real meaning of the Sabbath?mjrhealth said:
Incidentally, we KNOW that Jesus customarily kept the 7th-day Sabbath according to scripture. Based on what YOU and a couple of others on the forum believe ...did Jesus keep the Sabbath literally or was he spiritually resting in Himself? Or, am I just being silly . . .?
You are mixing the old with the new, and as you can see form all the confusion it just makes a mess. especially since us gentile where never given the old covenant,but the devil loves christians running around with there heads in a spin, and if you asked Jesus why so few believe as I do, He would tell you that is because so few listen to Him.
In all His Love
In all His Love
Hmmm . . .okay.mjrhealth said:
Yes, so you said before. Remedy: don't participate. Now, wasn't that easy? Bye ...!ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I've stated this before: Just because you find something in the Old Testament, doesn't automatically make it null and void. After Jesus died, there were Sabbath Keepers, such as Mary and John. As a matter of fact, upon the Sabbath Day, John was keeping it, and that is when he received the Revelation of Jesus Christ. The Gentiles wished to be taught the truths in the book of Acts upon the Sabbath Day. The Sabbath Day was used to preached to Jews AND Gentiles. Am I saying they did not teach any other day? No. I'm making it a point to point out, what the Scriptures felt need to point out as well.mjrhealth said:
You will agree that its wrong to murder, and steal (I hope). You can agree that its wrong to do everything else in the commandments, except for number 4. And if you can hear the Scriptures, dear MJRHEALTH, you can hear James 2:10 booming loud and clear down to this perverse generation. If you keep that whole law, yet break one point, you're guilty of all. Jesus said those workers of iniquity, those who have contempt for God's law, are ones he says depart from him. If ye truly loved Him, you would have kept the commandments, because the commandments are not grevious.1 John 5:3.
The Scriptures declare that Gods commandments are not grivious. It is not a yoke of bondage, as men will claim; it is not a stumbling block. The stumbling block which is laid out before men, is the one where people claim you don't have to keep the Sabbath. There is no Scripture to support this. God took extra precaution laying out the fourth commandment, because He knew it would be forgotten. The fourth commandment itself refutes every mans arguements against it. It says to REMEMBER THE SABBATH. It then speaks of THE SEVENTH DAY. Then it speaks of CREATION. God refutes all liars simply with Exodus 20:8-11.
It is HIS Words that say to remember it, and not forget it. It is His Words that say it refers to the seventh day specificially. And it is HIS words that say it points to Creation, and not the Cross. And no arguing against those facts can change the reality of it all.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
I don't know what's going on between the two of you, but end it, right now. You are Christians, so act like it. If he feels the need to be rude, simply turn it away from you. Do not the Scriptures say a soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger? Let not therefore your wrath come forth. If he is rude to you, then simply be a Christian, comment on the perceived rudeness, and then continue on with your discussion, as Christians.ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Now, what KCKID has been saying is very valid. Many Christians believe Sunday is the Sabbath. As a matter of fact, most Christians outside this message board do in fact believe that. There can be no denying of that fact. They believe they are keeping all ten commandments. And in Gods perfect judgement, He winks at the time of their ignorance.
The issue at hand, is when Christians refuse to turn around and keep the true Sabbath, declaring those who obey a legalist, a fanatic, a lunatic, Jesus Freak, a cult, etc. I must ask, what is so wrong with obedience that such words must be used towards fellow Christians?
The question is, why don't you keep the Sabbath? Don't you know you'll be judged for disobeying the light that came your way, and you firmly reject? No, I'm not talking about those who had a little light, but they never had the chance to understand if fully. The truth has not been shined in their faces in the proper light. I'm referring to, as KCKID may also be referring to, those who know full well that the Sabbath of the Creator is the seventh day.
Jesus calls those who claim to have great reverance for the law, but break it, hypocrites. He calls those who have contempt for the law, workers of iniquity. And those who say they keep it, yet simply on their chosen day, and not Gods, "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition."
Now onward with the discussion! Why is the Sabbath Day rejected, dear Christians?
Murder and stealing are in the Ten Commandments because they are wrong and not the other way around.Raeneske said:
The Ten Commandments are part of the Sinai Covenant and not applicable to Christians. You need to get your head around that.
Sabbath keeping is in the Ten Commandments because it is the sign of the Covenant and very important that the Jews were reminded of it. That's why it says "remember to keep holy the sabbath day".
Each covenant has a sign and the sign is a reminder of the Covenant.
If you are not in the Covenant you don't need the sign. That is why Christians do not need to be circumcised.
I personally don't believe the verses in Matthew 24 are in reference to the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, but are describing the end time tribulation. In verse 3, you get the subject matter; "the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" Jesus said that people "in Judea" (v. 16) could find it difficult, just as they would find it difficult to flee in winter (v. 20). Only Matthew mentions the Sabbath (vs 20), as his gospel was directed towards the Jews. To me, this verse does not command the Sabbath, it only shows that it would be difficult for people in Judea to flee on the Sabbath. Even today, in Jerusalem most of the city shuts down for the Shabbat, in most Israeli cities mass transportation shuts down making travel more difficult.KCKID said:
When the Jews persecuted Christ for working on the Sabbath, Jesus said; "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working" (John 5:17). God rested from His creative work on the seventh day, but He was back to work making a way for the redemption of mankind. There was no end to the work until Christ died on the cross providing a way of salvation, only then was it finished. I therefore believe that the New Covenant did in fact bring-in the real Sabbath rest, its not just a subject of remembrance anymore, but is alive in Christ and available to all who believe. We could not have spiritual rest prior to Christ because we were all dead to sin.Raeneske said:
I don't have a problem with folks who still want to use Saturdays to physically rest in symbolic recognition of God's work, but I personally don't believe there is a Saturday Sabbath for Christians, God's eternal Sabbath Rest belongs to the Christian by faith. I think its wrong to disassociate Christ with the Sabbath. We are sanctified by his work and he is our only source of spiritual rest.
This is not a sabbath keeping forum. I am sure that there are plenty of Sabbath Keeping forums out here in cyberland. If you are unsure of our Statement of Faith, please check in the announcement section at the top of the forum page. If members here feel that they should be keeping the sabbath day holy, that is up to them. It does not mean that those who do not keep the sabbath day are somehow disobedient. The bible clearly states that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Matthew 12:8 and if he is Lord then we can rest in him every single day. The blood of animals that was required by the law, could never cleanse a man's conscience of sin. Hebrews 9:9.
Under the new covenant, Jesus came and did that very thing, Hebrews 9:14 once and for all. For all who believe in him by faith
Hebrews 9
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Please note: The transgressions under the first covenant were covered by Christs blood also. The commandments therefore are also fulfilled in Christ [including the Sabbath day].
This thread has become negative to the point that it is no-longer valid as a discussion piece.
Shalom!!!
Under the new covenant, Jesus came and did that very thing, Hebrews 9:14 once and for all. For all who believe in him by faith
Hebrews 9
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Please note: The transgressions under the first covenant were covered by Christs blood also. The commandments therefore are also fulfilled in Christ [including the Sabbath day].
This thread has become negative to the point that it is no-longer valid as a discussion piece.
Shalom!!!
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