Ac 13:14 - But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down.Ac 13:27 - For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him.Ac 13:42 - So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.Ac 13:44 - On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.Ac 15:21 - For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." Ac 16:13 - And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.Ac 18:4 - And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. The early saints and apostles still observed the Sabbath as continuation of a pattern established by Jesus. They were never told not to observe Sabbath? Where is that in Scripture? Where is it in Scripture that we are to primarily worship on Sunday found? Who made this change? When was it foreshadowed or prophesied about a change taking place in the primary worship day?....... What is the history on this one? How did it take place? Why?
Why Do Christians Primarily Worship on Sunday
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These are all good questions, and for some of them there are no definite answers. I do think, however, that there are hints of the weekly worship of Christians being shifted to the first day of the week in scripture, and there were good reasons for doing so.As you have hinted, it appears to me that there is no clear place in recorded scripture that says "the Sabbath has now switched to Sunday." But in Acts 20:7, we read "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them..." So we see that there is evidence of the early saints meeting and worshipping on Sunday. However, because the early Christian church was closely tied to Jewish custom, as initially all Christians were former Jews, we read of places in the Bible where preaching takes place on the Sabbath of the Jews. In the scriptures you have quoted, it seems that most of the Sabbath (Saturday) activities in the early church revolved around the preaching of the gospel to Jews. The meetings of the Jews on Saturday became excellent opportunities to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, even if Saturday was no longer the day recognized by Christians as "the Sabbath."It is also instructive to note Revelation 1:10, in which John was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day." From this we can infer that the early Christians regarded their Sabbath day as "the Lord's Day," a day on which to remember Jesus Christ. This was best accomplished on Sunday, the day on which the Savior was resurrected. It should be no surprise to us that the day of the week on which the Sabbath was held changed as a result of the most important event in the history of the world, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Israelites in all of history before Jesus Christ held their Sabbath day while looking forward to the Messiah that would come. After Christ came, the disciples held their Sabbath day with the purpose of looking back to remember the Savior's sacrifice, and they found it most fitting to do so on Sunday.So while there is little direct evidence in the Bible of the shift from the Saturday Sabbath to the Sunday Sabbath, there are a few hints in scripture, which when coupled with our knowledge of the resurrection of Jesus Christ occurring on Sunday provide a pretty good basis for our Sabbath worship being on Sunday today.
(manichunter;52016)
Ac 13:14 - But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down.Ac 13:27 - For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him.Ac 13:42 - So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.Ac 13:44 - On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.Ac 15:21 - For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." Ac 16:13 - And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.Ac 18:4 - And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. The early saints and apostles still observed the Sabbath as continuation of a pattern established by Jesus. They were never told not to observe Sabbath? Where is that in Scripture? Where is it in Scripture that we are to primarily worship on Sunday found? Who made this change? When was it foreshadowed or prophesied about a change taking place in the primary worship day?....... What is the history on this one? How did it take place? Why?
The Sabbath Day is not a single day of the week. Christ became our Sabbath Day (Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5)as we are not to judge anyone of the holy days, new moon, and the Sabbath Day. (Colossians 2:16)Sabbath means Rest. And Christ will give us rest. (Matthew 11:28-30)
Ac 13:14 - But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down.Ac 13:27 - For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him.Ac 13:42 - So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.Ac 13:44 - On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.Ac 15:21 - For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." Ac 16:13 - And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.Ac 18:4 - And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. The early saints and apostles still observed the Sabbath as continuation of a pattern established by Jesus. They were never told not to observe Sabbath? Where is that in Scripture? Where is it in Scripture that we are to primarily worship on Sunday found? Who made this change? When was it foreshadowed or prophesied about a change taking place in the primary worship day?....... What is the history on this one? How did it take place? Why?
The Sabbath Day is not a single day of the week. Christ became our Sabbath Day (Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5)as we are not to judge anyone of the holy days, new moon, and the Sabbath Day. (Colossians 2:16)Sabbath means Rest. And Christ will give us rest. (Matthew 11:28-30)
Hi As a former Seventh Day Adventist I use to ask these questions a lot. Some people get it and some dont. As a church Gods people we will never have it all right until Jesus comes back.Saturday is the true sabbath. Some people worship on it and some sunday. Both groups will be in heaven. Its always Grace that we are saved not by the law. Nothing we do good can buy our way to heaven. Only by believing in Jesus our Lord can we be saved. Now we can e blessed by obedience, or not blessed by disobedient.
Richard_oti
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- Mar 17, 2008
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(manichunter;52016)
The early saints and apostles still observed the Sabbath as continuation of a pattern established by Jesus. They were never told not to observe Sabbath?
Nope, they were never told not to observe it. In fact, it is clear that they did continue to uphold shabat. (manichunter)
Where is that in Scripture?
It is not in the Scriptures. For clarity, I will repeat, they were never told not to observe shabat.(manichunter)
Where is it in Scripture that we are to primarily worship on Sunday found?
It is not found. However, if you ask most Pastors, they will direct you unto Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2 and regrettably some will even go as far as Revelation 1:10. There is nothing wrong with gathering together upon the first day [Sunday] of the week. There is nothing wrong with meeting together, breaking bread together, taking up a collection or any of the things currently done. However, let us:Shemot 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.For:Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.As for Revelation 1:10, I will address the later in this thread.(manichunter)
Who made this change?
The answer to that one is debatable. And as one little boy once said to his mother... You don't wanna know mom... You just don't wanna know...(manichunter)
When was it foreshadowed or prophesied about a change taking place in the primary worship day?
You seem to be obviously referring unto Daniel 7.(manichunter)
What is the history on this one? How did it take place? Why?
Those interested, will seek these answers for themselves.
The early saints and apostles still observed the Sabbath as continuation of a pattern established by Jesus. They were never told not to observe Sabbath?
Nope, they were never told not to observe it. In fact, it is clear that they did continue to uphold shabat. (manichunter)
Where is that in Scripture?
It is not in the Scriptures. For clarity, I will repeat, they were never told not to observe shabat.(manichunter)
Where is it in Scripture that we are to primarily worship on Sunday found?
It is not found. However, if you ask most Pastors, they will direct you unto Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2 and regrettably some will even go as far as Revelation 1:10. There is nothing wrong with gathering together upon the first day [Sunday] of the week. There is nothing wrong with meeting together, breaking bread together, taking up a collection or any of the things currently done. However, let us:Shemot 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.For:Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.As for Revelation 1:10, I will address the later in this thread.(manichunter)
Who made this change?
The answer to that one is debatable. And as one little boy once said to his mother... You don't wanna know mom... You just don't wanna know...(manichunter)
When was it foreshadowed or prophesied about a change taking place in the primary worship day?
You seem to be obviously referring unto Daniel 7.(manichunter)
What is the history on this one? How did it take place? Why?
Those interested, will seek these answers for themselves.
Richard_oti
Well-Known Member
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,170
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(Latter-day Saint;52042)
even if Saturday was no longer the day recognized by Christians as "the Sabbath."
IMO: Shabat never ceased to be recognized.(Latter-day Saint)
It is also instructive to note Revelation 1:10, in which John was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day." From this we can infer that the early Christians regarded their Sabbath day as "the Lord's Day," a day on which to remember Jesus Christ. This was best accomplished on Sunday, the day on which the Savior was resurrected. It should be no surprise to us that the day of the week on which the Sabbath was held changed as a result of the most important event in the history of the world, the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I have not seen enough evidence to make the conclusion you are drawing here. "The Kuriakhe Hemera": Kuriakhe [kuriakos] is an adjective for which there is no exact English equivalent. It only occurs twice in the NT, the other occurrence is kuriakon in 1 Corinthians 11:20.IMO: "The Lord's Day" referred unto here is the great and terrible day of YHVH. The reason for this is that the great and terrible day of YHVH is one of the central themes of Revelation.
even if Saturday was no longer the day recognized by Christians as "the Sabbath."
IMO: Shabat never ceased to be recognized.(Latter-day Saint)
It is also instructive to note Revelation 1:10, in which John was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day." From this we can infer that the early Christians regarded their Sabbath day as "the Lord's Day," a day on which to remember Jesus Christ. This was best accomplished on Sunday, the day on which the Savior was resurrected. It should be no surprise to us that the day of the week on which the Sabbath was held changed as a result of the most important event in the history of the world, the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
I have not seen enough evidence to make the conclusion you are drawing here. "The Kuriakhe Hemera": Kuriakhe [kuriakos] is an adjective for which there is no exact English equivalent. It only occurs twice in the NT, the other occurrence is kuriakon in 1 Corinthians 11:20.IMO: "The Lord's Day" referred unto here is the great and terrible day of YHVH. The reason for this is that the great and terrible day of YHVH is one of the central themes of Revelation.
Why would any good protestant not want to do as God says.Argue and twist and turn, but when it is all done and washed up the ten commandments are still binding on men, the ONLY piece of scripture written by the finger of God. And people think He said somewhere, "opps shouldn't have written that, bit of a mistake, sorry, don't need to worry about that now, changed my mind about #4, good idea to sort of keep the one about no killing and stealing and not running off with your neighbours wife, but # 4 was a bit of a mistake, sorry about the confusion"It is a bit funny really, the only one of the ten that people spend forever trying to get out of is #4Why is that ?There is a deep spiritual reason.It is the only one that identifies the one true GodThe creator God, that's who.The identity of who God is is at stake in the Sabbath and Creation.He is the creator God!!!Try find any other god that can do that !!!!!
Where is the Scripture to prove any of these ascertains. The Biblical week started with the first day on the lunar calendar at sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday (being Saturday afternoon on the solar calendar). The Sabbath was from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. There is no Scriptural proof that the Apostles changed the day. The Gentiles christians changed the day 300 and something years later legally. The day was not changed by the Holy Spirit, but man forming his own traditions.......Constantine wasn't the first to make the change, but he made the change "law." "Let all judges and all city people and all tradesmen rest upon the venerable day of the sun. But let those dwelling in the country freely and with full liberty attend to the culture of their fields; since it frequently happens that no other day is so fit for the sowing of grain, or the planting of vines; hence, the favorable time should not be allowed to pass, lest the provisions of heaven be lost." -- Given the seventh of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls, each for the second time. 321 A.D. "We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...." (from the Letter of Constantine on the Keeping of Easter, available online http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/const1-easter.html )Here are additional resources to fast start some additional information gathering:Nuetral siteshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaeahttp://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/nicaea.htmhttp://www.gotquestions.org/council-of-Nicea.htmlhttp://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum01.htmhttp://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum01.htmhttp://christianity.about.com/od/wha...dayworship.htmPro siteshttp://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htmhttp://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9312chap.asphttp://www.biblesabbath.org/confessions.htmlhttp://www.sabbathrest.net/religious/catholic.htmlhttp://www.pathlights.com/theselastd.../tract_22h.htmAnti siteshttp://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine...andt/nicea.htmhttp://www.eliyah.com/sabbday.htmhttp://seedsofrestoration.com/_wsn/page4.htmlhttp://www.harvestimebooks.com/tract...-to-Sunday.pdfhttp://www.godssabbathtruth.com/sabbath-catholic.htmlhttp://www.sign2god.com/folders/sabbath-history-en.htmlThis was an extreme error because of Jewish believer hating. The greater body of Christian believers were that hostile with towards the Jewish portion of the Body of Christ that they just flip the entire script and patterns found in Scripture to separate themselves from anything remotely Jewish except Jesus.......... We had no right to establish our own non Scriptural Tradition.. Plus Jesus' was resurrected on Saturday anyone.........
[The Catholic Church created the nonbiblical, counterfeit, Sunday Sabbath. Here are some of their admissions.][By Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers (1917 edition) pg.72-73 (16th edition) pg.111 (88th edition) pg. 89] "Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from any unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (i.e. Catholics) never sanctify."xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[Library of Christian Doctrine. Why Don't You Keep Holy the Sabbath Day? Page 5. ]You are a Protestant, and you profess to go by the Bible and the Bible only; and yet in so important a matter as the observance of one day in seven as a holy day, you go against the plain letter of the Bible, and put another day in the place of the day which the Bible has commanded. The command to keep holy the seventh day is one of the Ten Commandments; you believe that the other nine are still binding: who gave you authority to tamper with the fourth? If you are consistent with your own principles, if you really follow the Bible and the Bible only, you ought to be able to produce some portion of the New Testament in which this fourth commandment is expressly altered."xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxThomaston, GeorgiaMay 22, 1954 Pop Pius XIIRome, Italy Dear Sir;Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of? They say you changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so-called, Christian Sunday: Identical with the First Day of the week. If so, when did you make the change, and by what authority?Yours very truly, (Singed) J. L. Day The Reply: THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE 180 Wabash Ave., Chicago, Illinois (Under the Blessing of Pop Pius XII)Dear Sir: Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts
1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.(2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, "yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages, and a thousand other laws.(3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches, in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sundays of which there is nothing in the Bible.With best wishes Peter R. Tramer, Editorxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"Finally, at the last opening on the eighteenth of January 1562, all hesitation was set aside. The Archbishop of Reggio made a speech in which he openly declared that tradition stood above scripture. The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the church had changed... Sabbath into Sunday, not by the command of Christ, but by its own authority." [ Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, Kanon und Tradition (Ludwigsburg: Druck and Verlag von Ferd Riehm), 1859, page 263 in the German ]
1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.(2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, "yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages, and a thousand other laws.(3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches, in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sundays of which there is nothing in the Bible.With best wishes Peter R. Tramer, Editorxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"Finally, at the last opening on the eighteenth of January 1562, all hesitation was set aside. The Archbishop of Reggio made a speech in which he openly declared that tradition stood above scripture. The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the church had changed... Sabbath into Sunday, not by the command of Christ, but by its own authority." [ Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, Kanon und Tradition (Ludwigsburg: Druck and Verlag von Ferd Riehm), 1859, page 263 in the German ]So how many of you stop all of you activities at 6pm on Friday and stay home until Sat at 6pm (or sundown)?No driving a car, no going to the store, no preparing food... In Orthodox Judaism you can’t even turn on a light switch or a heater during Sabbath. So how many of you are doing this? If so, thats great.But...Since there are no proper names for days assigned anywhere in the Bible, other than "Sabbath" then who is to say it is on Saturday? G-d did not say he started working on the creation on Sunday morning at 12am. The title Saturday is never mentioned in the Bible. It is only tradition and later history references that we get the Sabbath/Saturday correlation.The original word "shavat" simply means "to cease". It dosent mean "Saturday" or "Sunday" or any other title of a day.The Romans were the first to name the days and our current day titles are from the Norse/Saxons and their deities. Saturday is "Saturn’s" Day, Sunday is "Suns" day Wednesday is "Woden's" day (or Odin's Day the Norse chief god) Thursday is Thor's Day etc.My point is G-d commands us to a day of rest. Let's not become Pharisaical about it. Remember that its the spirit of the day and what G-d intended for us that is important, not the title of a particular day.Read this and tell me where you see anything other than a command to rest every 7th day. 8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Oh and by the way, in this commandment it also says "Six days you shall labor and do all your work". That is part of the commandment. How many of you 9 to 5ers out there are obeying this part of the commandment? humm?
Well, Wayniac, you are confusing a lot of the traditions with the Scriptures.(Wayniac;52212)
So how many of you stop all of you activities at 6pm on Friday and stay home until Sat at 6pm (or sundown)?No driving a car, no going to the store, no preparing food... In Orthodox Judaism you can’t even turn on a light switch or a heater during Sabbath. So how many of you are doing this? If so, thats great.
The Bible says nothing about 6 p.m. or about staying home. It does say sundown and it does mention the apostles going to Temple and synagogue on Sabbath. It does mention that people are not to buy & sell on Sabbath, and it mentions not gathering sticks for a woodpile and not lighting a woodpile on the Sabbath.(Wayniac;52212)
But...Since there are no proper names for days assigned anywhere in the Bible, other than "Sabbath" then who is to say it is on Saturday? G-d did not say he started working on the creation on Sunday morning at 12am. The title Saturday is never mentioned in the Bible. It is only tradition and later history references that we get the Sabbath/Saturday correlation.The original word "shavat" simply means "to cease". It dosent mean "Saturday" or "Sunday" or any other title of a day.The Romans were the first to name the days and our current day titles are from the Norse/Saxons and their deities. Saturday is "Saturn’s" Day, Sunday is "Suns" day Wednesday is "Woden's" day (or Odin's Day the Norse chief god) Thursday is Thor's Day etc.
Really? I am unaware of that. According to my Bible, the days are named by number according to the way they precede the Sabbath day, which is named in my Bible. Yes, those are names of days. Just because this idea does not match up with Western naming of days does not make this naming illegitimate.In my Bible, what we commonly call in English Friday, and any other day that precedes a Sabbath, is called "preparation day."(Wayniac;52212)
My point is G-d commands us to a day of rest. Let's not become Pharisaical about it. Remember that its the spirit of the day and what G-d intended for us that is important, not the title of a particular day.Read this and tell me where you see anything other than a command to rest every 7th day. 8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Oh and by the way, in this commandment it also says "Six days you shall labor and do all your work". That is part of the commandment. How many of you 9 to 5ers out there are obeying this part of the commandment? humm?
You can quote the Scripture that specifically says "the Sabbath day" and not see it? Did the man gathering sticks die for doing that on an arbitrary day? Did each Israeli just choose which day was going to be their 7th, then G-d had to pay attention to all their schedules and supply for each individual on their elected day?You seem to assume that those of us who observe Sabbath do not work on the other six days. Where do you get your information? Since when does work only include what one does for money? Well, admittedly, for some men, that is the way it is, but for the other men and for most women, we know what it is to work six days a week. No problem there.
So how many of you stop all of you activities at 6pm on Friday and stay home until Sat at 6pm (or sundown)?No driving a car, no going to the store, no preparing food... In Orthodox Judaism you can’t even turn on a light switch or a heater during Sabbath. So how many of you are doing this? If so, thats great.
The Bible says nothing about 6 p.m. or about staying home. It does say sundown and it does mention the apostles going to Temple and synagogue on Sabbath. It does mention that people are not to buy & sell on Sabbath, and it mentions not gathering sticks for a woodpile and not lighting a woodpile on the Sabbath.(Wayniac;52212)
But...Since there are no proper names for days assigned anywhere in the Bible, other than "Sabbath" then who is to say it is on Saturday? G-d did not say he started working on the creation on Sunday morning at 12am. The title Saturday is never mentioned in the Bible. It is only tradition and later history references that we get the Sabbath/Saturday correlation.The original word "shavat" simply means "to cease". It dosent mean "Saturday" or "Sunday" or any other title of a day.The Romans were the first to name the days and our current day titles are from the Norse/Saxons and their deities. Saturday is "Saturn’s" Day, Sunday is "Suns" day Wednesday is "Woden's" day (or Odin's Day the Norse chief god) Thursday is Thor's Day etc.
Really? I am unaware of that. According to my Bible, the days are named by number according to the way they precede the Sabbath day, which is named in my Bible. Yes, those are names of days. Just because this idea does not match up with Western naming of days does not make this naming illegitimate.In my Bible, what we commonly call in English Friday, and any other day that precedes a Sabbath, is called "preparation day."(Wayniac;52212)
My point is G-d commands us to a day of rest. Let's not become Pharisaical about it. Remember that its the spirit of the day and what G-d intended for us that is important, not the title of a particular day.Read this and tell me where you see anything other than a command to rest every 7th day. 8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Oh and by the way, in this commandment it also says "Six days you shall labor and do all your work". That is part of the commandment. How many of you 9 to 5ers out there are obeying this part of the commandment? humm?
You can quote the Scripture that specifically says "the Sabbath day" and not see it? Did the man gathering sticks die for doing that on an arbitrary day? Did each Israeli just choose which day was going to be their 7th, then G-d had to pay attention to all their schedules and supply for each individual on their elected day?You seem to assume that those of us who observe Sabbath do not work on the other six days. Where do you get your information? Since when does work only include what one does for money? Well, admittedly, for some men, that is the way it is, but for the other men and for most women, we know what it is to work six days a week. No problem there.
I am not confusing scripture with tradition, simply showing the difference.If you want to worship on Saturday, that is fine, good in fact. But Christians are not held to keeping it on a paticular day, and in fact by Jesus' resurrection on the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1), His continued appearances on succeeding Sundays (John 20:26), and the descent of the Holy Spirit on Sunday (Acts 2:1), the early church was given the pattern of Sunday worship. This they did regularly (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2). Sunday worship was further hallowed by our Lord who appeared to John in that last great vision on "the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10). It is for these reasons that Christians worship on Sunday, rather than on the Jewish Sabbath.Probably the most concrete evidence we have that Christians are not compelled to observe a Saturday sabbath is found in Paul's Colossians chapter 2:"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day: things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Clearly the Bible specifically sets believers free from the obligation of keeping the sabbath on any paticular day. Paul says that its purpose was to serve as "a shadow of things to come" - our rest in Christ. These are also why Christians do not keep the other Sabbaths commanded in the Old Testament. We do not keep the 7th year Sabbath. We do not keep the Jubilee Sabbath which was the 7th of 7 years.the point: If you want to worship on Saturday thats all good. But Christ layed out a plan to worship on Sunday and so most Christians follow that lead.
(Wayniac;52297)
I am not confusing scripture with tradition, simply showing the difference.If you want to worship on Saturday, that is fine, good in fact. But Christians are not held to keeping it on a paticular day, and in fact by Jesus' resurrection on the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1), His continued appearances on succeeding Sundays (John 20:26), and the descent of the Holy Spirit on Sunday (Acts 2:1), the early church was given the pattern of Sunday worship. This they did regularly (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2). Sunday worship was further hallowed by our Lord who appeared to John in that last great vision on "the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10). It is for these reasons that Christians worship on Sunday, rather than on the Jewish Sabbath.Probably the most concrete evidence we have that Christians are not compelled to observe a Saturday sabbath is found in Paul's Colossians chapter 2:"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day: things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Clearly the Bible specifically sets believers free from the obligation of keeping the sabbath on any paticular day. Paul says that its purpose was to serve as "a shadow of things to come" - our rest in Christ. These are also why Christians do not keep the other Sabbaths commanded in the Old Testament. We do not keep the 7th year Sabbath. We do not keep the Jubilee Sabbath which was the 7th of 7 years.the point: If you want to worship on Saturday thats all good. But Christ layed out a plan to worship on Sunday and so most Christians follow that lead.
How sad
I am not confusing scripture with tradition, simply showing the difference.If you want to worship on Saturday, that is fine, good in fact. But Christians are not held to keeping it on a paticular day, and in fact by Jesus' resurrection on the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1), His continued appearances on succeeding Sundays (John 20:26), and the descent of the Holy Spirit on Sunday (Acts 2:1), the early church was given the pattern of Sunday worship. This they did regularly (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2). Sunday worship was further hallowed by our Lord who appeared to John in that last great vision on "the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10). It is for these reasons that Christians worship on Sunday, rather than on the Jewish Sabbath.Probably the most concrete evidence we have that Christians are not compelled to observe a Saturday sabbath is found in Paul's Colossians chapter 2:"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day: things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Clearly the Bible specifically sets believers free from the obligation of keeping the sabbath on any paticular day. Paul says that its purpose was to serve as "a shadow of things to come" - our rest in Christ. These are also why Christians do not keep the other Sabbaths commanded in the Old Testament. We do not keep the 7th year Sabbath. We do not keep the Jubilee Sabbath which was the 7th of 7 years.the point: If you want to worship on Saturday thats all good. But Christ layed out a plan to worship on Sunday and so most Christians follow that lead.
How sad
Don't go off half cocked. Read this whole post before you respond. Some people think that Paul did away with the Sabbathand other biblical Holy Days when he wrote in Romans 14:5-6: that “One person esteems“one day” above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it”They think that Paul is referring to God’s Sabbaths even though the Sabbath is not mentioned in the whole book of Romans.Paul and the other New Testament writers did not call the Sabbath “one day.”Did you know that Paul quotes from the Old Testament 84 times in this one letter to support his teaching. He never thought for one moment of doing away with the Sabbath or any other of the Ten Commandments.Paul, while in Corinth, “reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath,and persuaded both Jews and Greeks” (Acts18:1, 4). Did he write to the church in Rome to tell them Sabbath-keeping was irrelevant while teaching Jews and gentiles “every Sabbath” in Corinth? I don’t think so. No matter where Paul went, the book of Acts shows Paul’s custom was to keep the fourth commandment / Sabbath (Acts 17:2).We can not make anything holy. Yet we are commanded to remember the Sabbath and tokeep it holy. We can’t keep something holy that God has not made holy. If you look in Lev. 23:1-2 you will learn that, God calls His weekly Sabbath and annual Feast days His. They are not Israel’s or the Jew’s. They are God’sOur example is this: Follow it or not, it’s up to you.Lk.4:16 So He (Jesus) came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.Act. 17:1-2 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,Act. 13:42-44 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. (Now here was the perfect place for Paul to say, you don’t have to worry about that old Sabbath thing. I will meet with you tomorrow on the first day of the week.) 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.Act. 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.Act. 18:4And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. Now in verse 11 we read that Paul lived there for a year and six months. Since he “reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath” that’s 78 weekly Sabbaths and about 10 annual Sabbaths. Further proof that this common interpretation of Romans 14 is wrong can be found inPaul’s first epistle to the Corinthians. He wrote this epistle in or around A.D. 55, shortly before he came to Corinth (1 Corinthians 16:5-6) on the visit during which he would write his epistle to the Romans. What do we find he tells the Corinthians in this letter?• He tells them to keep the biblical Feast of Unleavened Bread in the proper manner,understanding its spiritual intent (1 Corinthians5:7-8; compare Leviticus 23:6). • He instructs them on how to keep theNew Testament Passover as a commemoration of Jesus Christ’s death (1 Corinthians11:23-30).• He reminds them that “Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us” (1 Corinthians 5:7).• He writes that he intends to journey to them, but that he will first stay in Ephesus untilafter the biblical Feast of Pentecost has passed(1 Corinthians 16:8).If you accept the common misinterpretation of the book of Romans, you would have toconclude that Paul instructed the Corinthians in how to properly observe the Passover, that he told them to keep the biblical Feast of Unleavened Bread, and that he noted he was staying in Ephesus until after the biblical Feast of Pentecost—and the very next year wrote to the Romans that none of this mattered and was all unnecessary.On the other hand, if you understand Paul’s teaching to the Romans as it is truthfullypresented in this chapter, you will see complete agreement between his actions and the letters he wrote to Church members both in Rome and Corinth.
Richard_oti
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(Wayniac;52212)
So how many of you stop all of you activities at 6pm on Friday and stay home until Sat at 6pm (or sundown)?
I don't at 6 pm. I go by sunset. Which where I live can be as early as 3:30 pm in winter to as late as about 9.Yes, I do stop.(Wayniac)
No driving a car, no going to the store, no preparing food...
It isn't hard. It's actually quite enjoyable. In fact, I won't even be posting anymore upon shabat.(Wayniac)
In Orthodox Judaism you can’t even turn on a light switch or a heater during Sabbath. So how many of you are doing this? If so, thats great.
Orthodox Judaism has added so many 'laws' unto the law that it is a burden. I don't follow Orthodox Judaism but rather stick to the Word. Having been challenged in life about it, I can understand and appreciate why Orthodox Judaism has done so though.(Wayniac)
Since there are no proper names for days assigned anywhere in the Bible, other than "Sabbath" then who is to say it is on Saturday? G-d did not say he started working on the creation on Sunday morning at 12am. The title Saturday is never mentioned in the Bible. It is only tradition and later history references that we get the Sabbath/Saturday correlation.
Take a look at most calendars, what day if the seventh one?Ask most Pastors, they will tell you they worship on the first day of the week and perhaps reference Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:2.As for the days, they are:Yom Rishon, Yom Sheni, Yom Shelishi, Yom Revi`i, Yom Khamishi, Yom Shishi, Shabat. First day through the sixth day, shabat.Shabat has both noun and verb forms. The noun refers specifically to the day of rest. The verb form is 'to cease', 'to rest'. We could compare shabat with cognate languages for a deeper understanding of it. Such as Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Syriac, (Wayniac)
The original word "shavat" simply means "to cease". It dosent mean "Saturday" or "Sunday" or any other title of a day.
Again, "shabat" is both noun and verb in form. In Leviticus 23, it is a shabat shabaton. In Exodus 16 it is shabaton shabat_qodesh. In Exodus 31 it is shabat shabaton etc.What does shabat shabaton mean?(Wayniac)
My point is G-d commands us to a day of rest. Let's not become Pharisaical about it. Remember that its the spirit of the day and what G-d intended for us that is important, not the title of a particular day.
Is the rainbow applicable unto us today?It is a 'perpetual covenant', just as shabat is a 'perpetual covenant'. It is a 'sign' between God and His people.(Wayniac)
Oh and by the way, in this commandment it also says "Six days you shall labor and do all your work". That is part of the commandment. How many of you 9 to 5ers out there are obeying this part of the commandment? humm?
I do.
So how many of you stop all of you activities at 6pm on Friday and stay home until Sat at 6pm (or sundown)?
I don't at 6 pm. I go by sunset. Which where I live can be as early as 3:30 pm in winter to as late as about 9.Yes, I do stop.(Wayniac)
No driving a car, no going to the store, no preparing food...
It isn't hard. It's actually quite enjoyable. In fact, I won't even be posting anymore upon shabat.(Wayniac)
In Orthodox Judaism you can’t even turn on a light switch or a heater during Sabbath. So how many of you are doing this? If so, thats great.
Orthodox Judaism has added so many 'laws' unto the law that it is a burden. I don't follow Orthodox Judaism but rather stick to the Word. Having been challenged in life about it, I can understand and appreciate why Orthodox Judaism has done so though.(Wayniac)
Since there are no proper names for days assigned anywhere in the Bible, other than "Sabbath" then who is to say it is on Saturday? G-d did not say he started working on the creation on Sunday morning at 12am. The title Saturday is never mentioned in the Bible. It is only tradition and later history references that we get the Sabbath/Saturday correlation.
Take a look at most calendars, what day if the seventh one?Ask most Pastors, they will tell you they worship on the first day of the week and perhaps reference Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:2.As for the days, they are:Yom Rishon, Yom Sheni, Yom Shelishi, Yom Revi`i, Yom Khamishi, Yom Shishi, Shabat. First day through the sixth day, shabat.Shabat has both noun and verb forms. The noun refers specifically to the day of rest. The verb form is 'to cease', 'to rest'. We could compare shabat with cognate languages for a deeper understanding of it. Such as Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Syriac, (Wayniac)
The original word "shavat" simply means "to cease". It dosent mean "Saturday" or "Sunday" or any other title of a day.
Again, "shabat" is both noun and verb in form. In Leviticus 23, it is a shabat shabaton. In Exodus 16 it is shabaton shabat_qodesh. In Exodus 31 it is shabat shabaton etc.What does shabat shabaton mean?(Wayniac)
My point is G-d commands us to a day of rest. Let's not become Pharisaical about it. Remember that its the spirit of the day and what G-d intended for us that is important, not the title of a particular day.
Is the rainbow applicable unto us today?It is a 'perpetual covenant', just as shabat is a 'perpetual covenant'. It is a 'sign' between God and His people.(Wayniac)
Oh and by the way, in this commandment it also says "Six days you shall labor and do all your work". That is part of the commandment. How many of you 9 to 5ers out there are obeying this part of the commandment? humm?
I do.
Richard_oti
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- Mar 17, 2008
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(Wayniac;52297)
If you want to worship on Saturday, that is fine, good in fact.
Nothing wrong with enjoying a little rest on shabat and fellowshipping upon yom rishon.(Wayniac)
But Christians are not held to keeping it on a particular day
True, we are free to worship everyday. For me and my household though, we also rest upon shabat.(Wayniac)
and the descent of the Holy Spirit on Sunday
'Pentecost' always falls upon 'sunday/yom rishon'.(Wayniac)
the early church was given the pattern of Sunday worship. This they did regularly (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2).
Perhaps they met together upon the first day as they were preaching in the synogogues upon shabat. As for taking up a collection, that had to not be upon shabat, for that would make them anomos.(Wayniac)
Probably the most concrete evidence we have...
Confer Hebrews 4:9-11.(Wayniac)
These are also why Christians do not keep the other Sabbaths commanded in the Old Testament.
I do.(Wayniac)
We do not keep the 7th year Sabbath. We do not keep the Jubilee Sabbath which was the 7th of 7 years.
The 7th year is the land's shabat. Some of the better farmers rotate their crops and actually do allow a part of their land to rest one year in seven. They are not actually keeping the land shabat, but they are following the principle of it.As for the Yobel [Jubilee] year, that is after 7 periods of 7 years, it is the 50th year. It was the year to set the captives free... seems to me I do remember Messiah reading those very words in picking up a scroll to read...(Wayniac)
the point: If you want to worship on Saturday thats all good. But Christ layed out a plan to worship on Sunday and so most Christians follow that lead.
Nothing wrong with worship of a sunday. Enjoy. For myself, it can be very enjoyable, however I also rest upon shabat.
If you want to worship on Saturday, that is fine, good in fact.
Nothing wrong with enjoying a little rest on shabat and fellowshipping upon yom rishon.(Wayniac)
But Christians are not held to keeping it on a particular day
True, we are free to worship everyday. For me and my household though, we also rest upon shabat.(Wayniac)
and the descent of the Holy Spirit on Sunday
'Pentecost' always falls upon 'sunday/yom rishon'.(Wayniac)
the early church was given the pattern of Sunday worship. This they did regularly (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2).
Perhaps they met together upon the first day as they were preaching in the synogogues upon shabat. As for taking up a collection, that had to not be upon shabat, for that would make them anomos.(Wayniac)
Probably the most concrete evidence we have...
Confer Hebrews 4:9-11.(Wayniac)
These are also why Christians do not keep the other Sabbaths commanded in the Old Testament.
I do.(Wayniac)
We do not keep the 7th year Sabbath. We do not keep the Jubilee Sabbath which was the 7th of 7 years.
The 7th year is the land's shabat. Some of the better farmers rotate their crops and actually do allow a part of their land to rest one year in seven. They are not actually keeping the land shabat, but they are following the principle of it.As for the Yobel [Jubilee] year, that is after 7 periods of 7 years, it is the 50th year. It was the year to set the captives free... seems to me I do remember Messiah reading those very words in picking up a scroll to read...(Wayniac)
the point: If you want to worship on Saturday thats all good. But Christ layed out a plan to worship on Sunday and so most Christians follow that lead.
Nothing wrong with worship of a sunday. Enjoy. For myself, it can be very enjoyable, however I also rest upon shabat.
Richard_oti
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(Thomas D;52376)
Don't go off half cocked. Read this whole post before you respond.
Well spoken.
Don't go off half cocked. Read this whole post before you respond.
Well spoken.
(Thomas D;52376)
Don't go off half cocked. Read this whole post before you respond.
very well said. Thanks Thomas D
Don't go off half cocked. Read this whole post before you respond.
very well said. Thanks Thomas D
The sabbath day was originally observed on Saturday.Today, in recognition of Jesus' resurrection (on Easter Sunday), the Church (well, the majority) meets on Sunday.
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