Why, do people go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers?

[bro.tan]

I agree. I once slept for three days and three nights straight, and there was nothing there—no dreams, no thoughts, nothing at all. It was just pitch black.

But if God is omnipotent, why can’t He use His omnipotence to guide people toward the truth? For example, by isolating each person in a prison where they are shielded from all false information and can learn the truth.

Thats a good question that coms with a loaded answer. But I'll try to make it simple. Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation and truth, we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, adhere to God's dietary laws in Lev.11ch, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

Do not let anyone convince you that it's wrong to keep God's commandments. Don't let anyone deprive you of the opportunity to receive eternal life. We were deprived of this opportunity once, but the death of Jesus has given us another chance. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27).

Most so called Christians don't believe they have to this, so why would God bless them and open their eyes to see.

 

[soberxp]

Thats a good question that coms with a loaded answer. But I'll try to make it simple. Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation and truth, we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, adhere to God's dietary laws in Lev.11ch, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

Do not let anyone convince you that it's wrong to keep God's commandments. Don't let anyone deprive you of the opportunity to receive eternal life. We were deprived of this opportunity once, but the death of Jesus has given us another chance. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27).

Most so called Christians don't believe they have to this, so why would God bless them and open their eyes to see.

I agree, but I still cannot understand. This flawed world already has so many problems—how can humanity be saved? Perhaps it is merely an opportunity for those willing to repent, while others will never have the chance to change. In my view, this might be the divine reason of God, who cannot consider things from a human perspective. Yet God has entrusted this matter to Jesus Christ, who is human and possesses human attributes. Perhaps Jesus can understand the extenuating circumstances of all people, so...
What is
For the letter kills,but Holy spirit gives life.

Anyway the whole Bible is the letter.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If it's possible let's stick to Bible terminology, because the Bible speak of two types of Death. The first death is the grave, now when I read the post it looks like you mixing them both. The second death is the lake of fire, I haven't mention that death yet. I just want to be clear that you understand, because the second death is coming when Jesus get back.

Well, it seems like you understand what the second death is, just can't grasp what the first one is all about. Those faithless, godless, unbelievers are conscious in the underworld, Hades. The experience is described in Luke 16 - which is not symbolic, it is a real place.

 

[bro.tan]

Well, it seems like you understand what the second death is, just can't grasp what the first one is all about. Those faithless, godless, unbelievers are conscious in the underworld, Hades. The experience is described in Luke 16 - which is not symbolic, it is a real place.

I don't think I mention the second death yet. Let’s go to the Prophet Job and see if he knows anything about this subject. This is still the first death But let's see what Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble. 2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.

Remember what Solomon said? Let's take another look. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. Job said basically, "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble". Each day you walk with God there is a war going on within your mind. Trying your best to keep this flesh body under control, trying to walk in the Lord's law, that is the trouble you encounter. If some one says it is easy that's a lie. You must walk in his power (His Word), to stay strong. You have a powerful adversary, and who is that? You. Pay close attention!

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.


If you can't understand, this then it's you who just can't grasp what the first one is all about. Stop adding more to the word of God then needed.

 

[bro.tan]

I agree, but I still cannot understand. This flawed world already has so many problems—how can humanity be saved? Perhaps it is merely an opportunity for those willing to repent, while others will never have the chance to change. In my view, this might be the divine reason of God, who cannot consider things from a human perspective. Yet God has entrusted this matter to Jesus Christ, who is human and possesses human attributes. Perhaps Jesus can understand the extenuating circumstances of all people, so...
What is
For the letter kills,but Holy spirit gives life.

Anyway the whole Bible is the letter.

Paul said in "1 Corinthians 6:9" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Let continue with Paul. Let go into Galatians 5: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now Paul said in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body and the mind, with unholiness or unGodliness.

Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

I understand that Job had a limited understanding of the afterlife, where the ghost goes. This passage is really expressing the absence of consciousness of the earthly existence.
But in these passages, he delves into Hades:
Job 10:21-22, The "land of darkness and deep shadow" is not a description of a grave.
In Job 11:7-8, The "depths of God" are compared to the depths of Sheol - obviously deeper than 6 feet.
In Job 26:5-6, Hades also means hidden and unseen from us. The description of departed spirits " trembling under the waters" suggests under the crust of the earth's aquifers. "Abaddon has no covering". Abaddon is the angel of the Abyss, the destroyer released during the Apocalypse (Rev. 9:11). So we can see that Abaddon is not in a burial grave or tomb with the bones of a dead person!!!
Job 38:17 "Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?"
This reveals that death is a doorway, it has gates. Jesus made a reference to the gates of Hades in (Matthew 16:18)

Let's just stio here, really. I am convinced that I know (to be fair - dimly) the meaning of death and Hades; but certainly will not be convinced in this soul sleep view that the SDAs, JWs snd Christadelphians have. This is not a fundamental doctrine. The majority of Christians would disagree with this view.

Bye. Take care.

 

[bro.tan]

I understand that Job had a limited understanding of the afterlife, where the ghost goes. This passage is really expressing the absence of consciousness of the earthly existence.
But in these passages, he delves into Hades:
Job 10:21-22, The "land of darkness and deep shadow" is not a description of a grave.
In Job 11:7-8, The "depths of God" are compared to the depths of Sheol - obviously deeper than 6 feet.
In Job 26:5-6, Hades also means hidden and unseen from us. The description of departed spirits " trembling under the waters" suggests under the crust of the earth's aquifers. "Abaddon has no covering". Abaddon is the angel of the Abyss, the destroyer released during the Apocalypse (Rev. 9:11). So we can see that Abaddon is not in a burial grave or tomb with the bones of a dead person!!!
Job 38:17 "Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?"
This reveals that death is a doorway, it has gates. Jesus made a reference to the gates of Hades in (Matthew 16:18)

Let's just stio here, really. I am convinced that I know (to be fair - dimly) the meaning of death and Hades; but certainly will not be convinced in this soul sleep view that the SDAs, JWs snd Christadelphians have. This is not a fundamental doctrine. The majority of Christians would disagree with this view.

Bye. Take care.

Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent.

 

[PS95]

I hope you read the beginning of the thread before you commented. But let's see what David says in Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent. Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject.

Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

You ignored all I wrote. Whatever. For every verse you post there is another one to counter it. It's how it is- no wonder Solomon in Ecclesiastes said 3 different things!
Remember this though- WE ARE ALL DEAD until we come to Christ to receive His Spirit in us- aka "born again".
Those who are still dead in their sins do not understand that you can be dead while living.
If I recall, you deny being born again- until physical death.
That is wrong. You must DIE to sin with Christ and be born anew now. Otherwise you have no part in Him.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent.

One more ...
John MacArthur generally interprets Job 14:12—"So a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep"—as a poetic expression of the finality of physical death. He presents it as part of Job's limited, earthly perspective on mortality rather than a direct denial of the resurrection.

2 Peter 3:10-12 happens after the Millennial Kingdom. This event follows the destruction of the 1st heavens, 1st earth, Death and Hades (and everyone in it); AND THE SECOND RESURRECTION; which is the totality of the Great White Throne Judgment - replaced by the New Jerusalem for eternity.

 

[bro.tan]

You ignored all I wrote. Whatever. For every verse you post there is another one to counter it. It's how it is- no wonder Solomon in Ecclesiastes said 3 different things!
Remember this though- WE ARE ALL DEAD until we come to Christ to receive His Spirit in us- aka "born again".
Those who are still dead in their sins do not understand that you can be dead while living.
If I recall, you deny being born again- until physical death.
That is wrong. You must DIE to sin with Christ and be born anew now. Otherwise you have no part in Him.

The scriptures I'm posting refers to physical death, not spiritual death. I get what you saying, but that's another point to make. Read the beginning of the thread so we can be on one accord.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The same reason why people have funerals. It's for their benefit, not the dead. It's their way to remember them and honor their memory.

Yes it gives closure for us all to come together and as you say.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Just last night I came up with a thought of a good mate of mine, I was explaining to my mate of his dad looking down on him with a smile and a salute ! but in regards another dude we once knew, I pointed out to my mate, that this dude would be looking up to him, with his hands on his hips looking up and side to side like ?

I thought I would have to tell him that story. for He would get a good laugh out of it. but I would have to do the expession in person.

I have done the expression on the hips to his wife once and she laughted ! She said you do that too. has her hubby had did such to her once before.
So it's you that that stance comes from she said !

It's an expression no one who has past this life is truly looking at you ?

Remember that Santa song, He sees you, when your sleeping, he knows if your been good or bad, so be good for goodness sake ! so you better watch out !

Now with Political Correctness being an Idol ! He see's you when your sleeping ? is that P Correct ? and have you been good or bad ? Well that's outright discrimimination !

 

[bro.tan]

Just last night I came up with a thought of a good mate of mine, I was explaining to my mate of his dad looking down on him with a smile and a salute ! but in regards another dude we once knew, I pointed out to my mate, that this dude would be looking up to him, with his hands on his hips looking up and side to side like ?

I thought I would have to tell him that story. for He would get a good laugh out of it. but I would have to do the expession in person.

I have done the expression on the hips to his wife once and she laughted ! She said you do that too. has her hubby had did such to her once before.
So it's you that that stance comes from she said !

It's an expression no one who has past this life is truly looking at you ?

Remember that Santa song, He sees you, when your sleeping, he knows if your been good or bad, so be good for goodness sake ! so you better watch out !

Now with Political Correctness being an Idol ! He see's you when your sleeping ? is that P Correct ? and have you been good or bad ? Well that's outright discrimimination !

Well....yeah it's all folly, but like the books says in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the Saints.

If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

 

[PS95]

The scriptures I'm posting refers to physical death, not spiritual death. I get what you saying, but that's another point to make. Read the beginning of the thread so we can be on one accord.

I did address it. You ignored what I gave you from Solomon. No worries. This just isn't all that important to me. I understand both sides of the issue. it is not salvational. I think arguing over it takes away from Christ. We have enough to work on as it is.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Well....yeah it's all folly, but like the books says in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the Saints.

If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

Well a mates mum made threats to his wife, that she would come back and Haunt her ! and I was their to hear that.

Well that mates wife is an Aboriginal and they believe a lot of nonsense like that and much more mumbo jumbo rubbish.

They will not walk in the dark for fear of so much spook BS, they will sit under a Light all night out on the HWY than walk a mile home on the bush road.
Not to mention so much stupid idiot BS about the dead being idolised.
One such of my brothers Abo mate ranted on with that crap at my dads funeral and he was idolising my dad ! but my dad hated his guts totaly !

My mum also came up with this spastic opinion about one dude that cost them a lot of money, in riping them off big time, so when of hearing he was dead, she said Good ! as if it was a reeleaf. happy that he was dead ? as if it was payback ! but he was an old dude by then.
I was like what is the point.