Why do so many oppose imputed righteousness?

[Stranger]

@Stranger,

Since you are misrepresenting me in so many ways; and because I also believe that I need to at this point believe that all of my own righteousnesses are as filthy rags (in spite of Revelation 19:8 (kjv)): I am not going to continue this conversation with you.

I bow out.

I do not say that I am convinced of your pov; but I am not going to argue against it any further.

I will continue to believe what the scripture says in 1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, and Matthew 5:6.

I believe that the apostles used great plainness of speech in what they wrote (2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv)); and it is clear to me that the verses referenced above speak of imparted and practical righteousness; while they also are not in denial of imputed righteousness.

Since you yourself admit that the doctrine of sanctification is not negated by imputation, I'm not certain what your beef is.

Because all I'm saying is that sanctification comes as the result of imputation.

In imputation God declares the ungodly person to be righteous (Romans 4:5); and it is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2). So God calls those things which be not as though they are, thus creating a new reality (Romans 4:17) of that which He has declared; that the person who was one moment before ungodly, is now righteous...in reality...and this means, in the practical and in the imparted sense.

Through the obedience of one shall many be made righteous (Romans 5:19).

Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled (Matthew 5:6).

Those who do righteousness are righteous even as He is righteous (1 John 3:7).

No, you didn't bow out. You said you did, then you began trying to restart your position because you could not deny the things I said.

My beef, my problem with what you are saying, is that you deny imputation, all the while claiming you don't. You speak of grace, all the while bringing believers under law. You present yourself as 'by faith only', yet add works. The doctrine of imputation is your Achilles heel. It reveals your bent toward works and reward.

If you want to bow out, just be quiet.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I am unwatching this thread.

@marks can take up the cause of attempting to convince you of the truth if he so desires; but I expect that he will get similar treatment from you if he does.

I consider that we will know them by their fruits.

We don't gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles.

So then, since there is no harvest to be reaped here (and God has also told me not to sow among thorns, Jeremiah 4:3-4) I will let my statements stand as the truth and leave it to others to sift out the differing opinions that are presented here.

He will get similar treatment if he denies imputation as you do.

Who receives your statements as truth? You?

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

My beef, my problem with what you are saying, is that you deny imputation, all the while claiming you don't.

Then I guess the Bible does that, too...

Because I am not making any statements that I have not backed up with the word of the Lord.

The reality is that the Bible does not do that, and that neither am I doing it.

But you want to be in a fight.

I pray that the Lord receives you as a son (Hebrews 12:6).

Okay, yes, I guess I didn't bow out completely. Simply because I had to correct your lie.

 

[justbyfaith]

You speak of grace, all the while bringing believers under law.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. And once faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

There are those who think they're saved who really aren't; and the same people think that they are not under the law.

They need the law as a schoolmaster to show them their sin (Romans 3:20) in order that they might come to Christ and be set free (John 8:32, John 8:34-36).

 

[Stranger]

Then I guess the Bible does that, too...

Because I am not making any statements that I have not backed up with the word of the Lord.

The reality is that the Bible does not do that, and that neither am I doing it.

But you want to be in a fight.

I pray that the Lord receives you as a son (Hebrews 12:6).

Okay, yes, I guess I didn't bow out completely. Simply because I had to correct your lie.

You deny imputation yet all the while claim you don't. Not the Bible...you.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ. And once faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

There are those who think they're saved who really aren't; and the same people think that they are not under the law.

They need the law as a schoolmaster to show them their sin (Romans 3:20) in order that they might come to Christ and be set free (John 8:32, John 8:34-36).

Just as I said. You speak of grace yet all the while bring believers under law.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

thank God someone did imo, most believers are accomplished lawyers i think.
how ya been Stranger?

 

[farouk]

“Work out your salvation with fear” is what some think is cause for works instead of imputed righteousness

It stresses individual responsibility. Other passages stress Divine sovereignty.

 

[marks]

He will get similar treatment if he denies imputation as you do.

Now there's an appealing invitation to discourse!

 

[justbyfaith]

Just as I said. You speak of grace yet all the while bring believers under law.

I believe that you misunderstand me.

 

[justbyfaith]

You deny imputation yet all the while claim you don't. Not the Bible...you.

Funny...

Because the things that I say that you believe deny imputation, I got from the Bible...

But it should be clear that the Bible does not deny imputation.

Nevertheless you seem to think that I do over the fact that I bring up verses that speak of impartation...

Which you seem to think is incontrovertibly opposed to the concept of imputation.

I contend that the doctrines are compatible; both of them being found in the pages of holy scripture.

 

[marks]

.

Funny...

Because the things that I say that you believe deny imputation, I got from the Bible...

But it should be clear that the Bible does not deny imputation.

Nevertheless you seem to think that I do over the fact that I bring up verses that speak of impartation...

Which you seem to think is incontrovertibly opposed to the concept of imputation.

I contend that the doctrines are compatible; both of them being found in the pages of holy scripture.

Hi justbyfaith,

It's clear to me. I find your statements very clear.

Imputed righteousness is, "He becames sin Who knew no sin that we might become the righteousness of God in Him". God's righteousness given to us, as a result of an exchange.

And Imparted righteousness, "the new man, which is created according to God (that is, patterned after God) in righteousness and true holiness. We have been recreated with God's Own nature, now in our being righteous. We are righteous creations, because God made us that way.

And that's why it's so sad and needless when we fall short of love and joy and peace and patience and all that God has for us. Because He's already made us righteous and holy. But we are children and untrained in lives of holiness and faith.

We need to be willing to be children, and be trained as children, and to trust as children. And then to mature into the stature of Christ.

So here's another question . . . why do some oppose the doctrine of imparted righteousness?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

So here's another question . . . why do some oppose the doctrine of imparted righteousness?

I think, because they don't understand that imparted righteousness isn't required for the believer, but only desired.

So they feel that if righteousness is imparted, that they are required to keep to that standard of righteousness and that there is condemnation if they don't measure up.

I think that this is because they don't realize that the righteousness of Christ is imputed by faith regardless of whether it has yet been imparted.

 

[marks]

I think, because they don't understand that imparted righteousness isn't required for the believer, but only desired.

So they feel that if righteousness is imparted, that they are required to keep to that standard of righteousness and that there is condemnation if they don't measure up.

I think that this is because they don't realize that the righteousness of Christ is imputed by faith regardless of whether it has yet been imparted.

I see that the impartation of righteousness is simply part of becoming God's child. And then we can actually live in righteousness, except, of course, when we forget that we can, or don't believe that we can. Which seems to happen pretty much across the board with everyone, I think, at least sometimes.

And yes, if someone wants to become legalistic about it, then their failures will hang over their heads like Damocles' sword.

All this teaching going around that we make ourselves more acceptible by our works, or even, as so many promote, that our salvation is dependant upon our works, this will quickly translate into self-condemnation.

Real freedom is knowing that our sins are not imputed to us, that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, and that we've been reborn with real righteousness.

Much love!

 

[Stranger]

Funny...

Because the things that I say that you believe deny imputation, I got from the Bible...

But it should be clear that the Bible does not deny imputation.

Nevertheless you seem to think that I do over the fact that I bring up verses that speak of impartation...

Which you seem to think is incontrovertibly opposed to the concept of imputation.

I contend that the doctrines are compatible; both of them being found in the pages of holy scripture.

The Bible teaches imputation. You pervert the teaching of imputation.

'Impartation' is your made up doctrine to oppose the doctrine of imputation.

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible teaches imputation. You pervert the teaching of imputation.

'Impartation' is your made up doctrine to oppose the doctrine of imputation.

Stranger

Scripture gives the following warning:

Heb 3:7, Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10, Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11, So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Heb 3:15, While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Heb 4:7, Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

But it appears that you have already done so.

 

[Stranger]

Scripture gives the following warning:

Heb 3:7, Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10, Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11, So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Heb 3:15, While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Heb 4:7, Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

But it appears that you have already done so.

This concerns entering the rest of God, not imputation.

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

This concerns entering the rest of God, not imputation.

Stranger

It concerns the fact that you have hardened your heart against what the word of God says, in such verses as Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, and 1 John 3:7.

(not sure how many times I have repeated these verses now; but perhaps if I quote them again they will break through to you):

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[Stranger]

It concerns the fact that you have hardened your heart against what the word of God says, in such verses as Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, and 1 John 3:7.

(not sure how many times I have repeated these verses now; but perhaps if I quote them again they will break through to you):

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Try and stick to the subject matter.

And I have explained them. So?

Note however, (Rom. 5:19). By the obedience of Who? Three guesses. First two don't count.

Stranger

 

[Ezra]

For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. imputed Christ made us righteous 2 corinthians 5:21 we have nothing to do with it other than live the life Galatians 2:20 .isaiah says our righteousness is as filthy rags a used tossed away sanitary napkin . to be righteous we have to be connected to the true vine . paul said in romans to yield ourselves to righteousness in titus i think it is we are to pursue righteousness imputed imparted

 

[justbyfaith]

Note however, (Rom. 5:19). By the obedience of Who? Three guesses. First two don't count.

In Romans 5:19, the person is made righteous; and that will remain my emphasis.

Yes, it is through Christ's obedience. In dying on the Cross, He commended the Holy Spirit to the Father; who was then poured out on the early church and has dwelt in believers ever since. Through the indwelling Holy Ghost we can walk in freedom from and victory over sin. So then, our being made righteous is the result of Jesus one act of obedience (in dying on the Cross; providing the Holy Spirit through whom we live righteously).

Also, if we hunger and thirst after righteousness, we shall be filled. Matthew 5:6.

And the person who does righteousness is righteous even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7.