Why do so many oppose imputed righteousness?

[justbyfaith]

So now you are doing this song and dance about how you come to the conclusion that I believe 'righteousness is imputed only'.

So, again I ask you: do you believe that righteousness is imputed only; or do you believe that it can also be imparted?

If you cannot or will not answer, I conclude that you are denying outwardly what you believe inwardly. For some reason you do not want to admit that you believe that righteousness is imputed only (perhaps because 1 John 3:7 shows clearly that this is not the case; but that it is also imparted).

 

[justbyfaith]

But I fear that I am stooping to your level in some of my responses to you...I see that some of your sinful attitude is rubbing off on me, even as we speak.

Therefore, I am not certain that I want to continue with this conversation.

After all, it is written,

1Co 15:33, Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

 

[Stranger]

continued from (419):

Maintaining our fellowship with God is the key. The believer can walk in the light, or he can walk in darkness. But if we are walking in darkness, in the way of the world, then we don't try and say we are in fellowship with God. Because God is only light. (1 John 1:5-6) And if we say we are in fellowship with Him while walking in darkness, we lie.

(1 John 1:7) "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." This is not talking about God cleansing my sin when I first believed and was born-again. This is talking about my sin that I sin as I walk in the light. Even while walking in the light, we will sin. Here John must bring home this point. (1:8) "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." In other words, don't be surprised, and don't lie to yourselves.

But something is involved for Christ to cleanse us from all our sin as we walk in the light. Our confession of our sins. (1 John 1:9) "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us, our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. As we walk in the light we will sin and unrighteousness will be seen in us. The Holy Spirit will not let the sin go unnoticed and the believer will be convicted of his sin. The light of God reveals our sin. We repent and confess it to God. God cleanses us from all sin and all unrighteousness. It is in this sense only that we have no sin and no unrighteousness. We walk in the light, we sin, we repent and confess our sins, we have no sin, and do righteousness.

(1 John 2:1) "My little children, these things write I unto your, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous:" Important to note that this work of cleansing us is a judicial work of God. It has to do with His righteous nature and his 'justness'. (1:9) "he is faithful and just to forgive us". It is not mercy. It is justness. Here Christ enters into His role as our advocate, our Defense Attorney. The enemy, brings up accusations of sin on our part before God, as the enemy always does. And these are true accusations. The believer did this. But our Advocate goes before the Father, and reminds Him of how He has born our sin...every sin. He reminds Him, this sin or sins have been justly paid for by Me, and this believer is in Me. The charges against the believer are justly dropped.

Continued later: #(427)

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

Even while walking in the light, we will sin.

Not necessarily. For 1 John 3:9, even if hyperbole, teaches us that at the very least we do not have to sin as believers in the Lord. And Romans 8:12 would tell us the same.

It is in this sense only that we have no sin and no unrighteousness. We walk in the light, we sin, we repent and confess our sins, we have no sin, and do righteousness.

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I just want to mention that 1 John 1:8 is speaking of indwelling sin; while 1 John 3:5-9 is speaking about practical sin.

If we say that we have no indwelling sin, we are lying to ourselves.

But if we say that we do not practice or commit sin; and this be the reality: then we have an accurate estimation of our life in Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

So now you are doing this song and dance about how you come to the conclusion that I believe 'righteousness is imputed only'.

So, again I ask you: do you believe that righteousness is imputed only; or do you believe that it can also be imparted?

If you cannot or will not answer, I conclude that you are denying outwardly what you believe inwardly. For some reason you do not want to admit that you believe that righteousness is imputed only (perhaps because 1 John 3:7 shows clearly that this is not the case; but that it is also imparted).

 

[justbyfaith]

I want to mention that the Bible warns us against false prophets and teachers who will come "turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" (kjv) or "grace into a license for sin." (NIV) (Jude 1:3-4).

This is in effect the false teaching that has been growing in the church for quite some time, the doctrine of the inevitability of sin. Pastors and teachers say from the pulpits, "You are going to sin." as though victory in Christ is impossible.

The Bible teaches that we can indeed have victory over sin.

Those who deny this reality, do so, I believe, out of an innate desire to keep certain sins that they do not want to surrender up to the Lord. If it is impossible but that I will sin, then grace only deals with the penalty; and I can continue to walk in basic rebellion for the rest of my life; and still go to heaven when I die. This amounts to teaching that grace is a license for sinning. Jude tells us that the condemnation of these false teachers was marked out long ago.

 

[Stranger]

continued from (423)

So, walking in the light has to do with us confessing 'our sins' when we sin. (1 John 1:9). Our Advocate, Jesus Christ, defends us justly before the Father. Our sins have been paid and charges are dropped. We are cleansed from all sin and unrighteousness. (1:7-2:1) This is how our sins as a believer are dealt with. When we were lost and without Christ, the only Remedy for our sins was faith in Christ. Being born-again took care of our sins. It took care of all our sins. The difference then was that we sinned as a non-believer. Even though all our sins have been paid our sinning as a believer must be addressed. And it has been in (1 John 1:9-10).

Note this distinction in (1 John 2:2). "And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Our sins as a believer, and the sins of the rest of the unbelieving world. Christ is the propitiation for both kinds. To the world, the remedy is faith in Jesus Christ. To the believer, remedy is repentance and confession. Two types of sins and walk and remedies. The basis for both remedies is 'Jesus Christ the righteous'. (2:1) Interesting how John drops that description in there, 'Jesus Christ the Righteous'. For He alone is righteous.

1.) Believer---in the light and walking in the light---we sin---we confess our sins---we are cleansed from all sin and unrighteousness---our righteousness displayed.

2.) Unbeliever---in darkness, and walks in darkness---sins with no restraint or care---their lawless life, unrighteousness, displayed.

If a believer says he is abiding in Christ; if he says he is in the light, then he should walk with Christ as his example. (1 John 2:6) And when Christ walked in the world, His righteousness was displayed in that He did not sin. He did not break the Law. And sin is transgression of the Law. (1 John 3:4) Our righteousness however cannot so be displayed because we do sin. But, Christ remedies that. (3:5) "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." Thus if we abide, if we walk in the light, we wont sin in that our confessed sins are removed. (1 John 3:6) "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not..." Because we are in Him and our sins are confessed.

But, (1 John 3:6), "...whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." This is true of the unbeliever who is in darkness and walks in darkness. See #(2) above.

(1 John 3:7) "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness, is righteous, even as he is righteous. See #(1) above. The believers 'doing righteousness' is based upon his walking in the light. Sin confessed and cleansed. Such a one reflects Christ's righteousness which has been imputed to him, which he is declared to be.

This 'doing of righteousness' does not create the imputed righteousness of Christ in the believer. That is his by declaration only. It simply reflects that he has Christ's righteousness imputed or declared to him. It reflects that he is a child of God.

(1 John 3:8) "He that committeth sin is of the devil...." See #(2) above.

(1 John 3:9) "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." The child of God does not sin as the unbeliever sins. The child of God sins against light, because he has the light. If he is not abiding, if he is not walking in the light, his sin is still not as the unbelievers who is in darkness and walks in darkness. The believer sins against the light. Very serious, but different.

(1 John 3:10) "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God...." Contrast #(1) and #(2) above.

But, what of the child of God who neglects that which God has provided in walking with Him. (1 John 1:9) What of the child of God who gets caught up in the world and the sins of the world?

continued later. #(429)

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

(1 John 3:7) "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness, is righteous, even as he is righteous. See #(1) above. The believers 'doing righteousness' is based upon his walking in the light. Sin confessed and cleansed. Such a one reflects Christ's righteousness which has been imputed to him, which he is declared to be.

This 'doing of righteousness' does not create the imputed righteousness of Christ in the believer. That is his by declaration only. It simply reflects that he has Christ's righteousness imputed or declared to him. It reflects that he is a child of God.

I am in agreement with these things.

The imputed righteousness of Christ (which you say I deny; but which I affirm) does indeed belong to the believer by declaration only.

In imputing righteousness, or in justifying us (declaring us righteous), God calls those things which be not as though they are (Romans 4:17): for it is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2). Thus in declaring us righteous, He does not leave us in an unrighteous state.

Proverbs 17:15 and Proverbs 24:24 show us clearly that God does not justify the wicked or ungodly. And yet, in Romans 4:5, it is declared that God does indeed justify the ungodly. How are these verses reconciled? The answer is, in that in justifying the wicked/ungodly person, He regenerates and renews them in the Holy Ghost so that they are no longer unrighteous; even in the practical sense. It is not the Lord merely looking at them through rose-colored glasses; but it is the Lord, in the declaration, actually bringing into existence the things that He has declared.

Pro 17:15, He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Pro 24:24, He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:
Pro 24:25, But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.

Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Stranger]

continued from #(427)

What of the child of God who strays off into the world, who sins against God and does not avail himself of confessing his sins to be cleansed. (1 John 1:9). Well, as has been said, he sins against the light. He does not cease to be a child of God but he places himself in the position of judgement from God. (1 Cor. 11:30-32). God deals with the believer in grace. He gives time for the believer to repent and return and confess. How long? Who knows? The point is, who wants to find out?

This erring child of God suffers those things described first in post #(419). Loss of assurance, and fellowship with God. He is constantly under conviction from God and miserable as he walks in the world.

His remedy is still, to repent and confess his sins to God and avail himself to the advocacy of Christ his Saviour. It is not to get born-again, again. There is no born-again, again.

Here the Prodigal Son is a perfect picture. (Luke 15:11-32) As you read it note that the son was always the son. The father was always the father. The father longed and looked for the return of his son. (15:20) The son had finally come to himself and desired to confess his sins. (15:18) But even before confession was made the father embraced and kissed him. (15:20) Then the son confessed. (15:21)

We call this the story of the Prodigal Son. But it is just as much the story of the Obedient Son. The one who did everything right. The one who did not sin and runaway and spend his wealth on the world. And what was his response? Anger against his father. Jealousy against his brother. Why should God accept this one back when I have been the one who has been obedient all this time? (Luke 15:27-28)

The enemy, satan, hates the child of God because he is a child of God. And it sticks in his craw that he can bring up the sins of the believer to God and God dismisses all those charges.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I am in agreement with these things.

The imputed righteousness of Christ (which you say I deny; but which I affirm) does indeed belong to the believer by declaration only.

No, you are not in agreement with what I have said. The many posts in our discussion are proof of that. If you are, then admit your false doctrine of 'imparted righteousness'. Admit your lie that the blessings in the Mosaic law are not part of the Law. Admit your lie that the blessings in the Sermon on the Mount are not Law.

You simply have nothing to argue against what I said, so you now restort to being a camelion and veil yourself as in agreement. I don't believe you for a second.

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

No, you are not in agreement with what I have said.

You are always the one to tell me what I believe and don't believe; as if you know what is in my heart and mind.

Do you think you're Jesus?

Judge ye not; lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1.

 

[justbyfaith]

The many posts in our discussion are proof of that. If you are, then admit your false doctrine of 'imparted righteousness'.

First of all, it is not false, but biblical (Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19, 1 John 3:7).

Your arguments in the attempt to strip these scriptures away from the consciousness of the reader, are just that: an attempt to take away from the word of God with the use of arguments (see Revelation 22:19).

However, it is written (in the NIV),

2Co 10:4, The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
2Co 10:5, We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

It is not necessarily with other arguments that we demolish arguments; but we utilize the heavy artillery of spiritual battle to deal with the strongholds of the enemy.

Secondly, you seem to think that it (the true doctrine of imparted righteousness) is false because you do not understand how it can be compatible with the doctrine, also true, of imputed righteousness. This is based on a lack of understanding on your part; not on any wrongness to my doctrine.

Admit your lie that the blessings in the Mosaic law are not part of the Law.

They are certainly written within the context of the law that was given; however I do believe that promises are distinct from the conditions to receiving them as defined in the law.

Admit your lie that the blessings in the Sermon on the Mount are not Law.

They may indeed be included in something that might be defined as New Testament Law; however, I do believe that promises given are distinct from the conditions to receiving them; which I would indeed define as law.

For example...it is certainly law that we must needs ask, seek, and knock...and it is promise that we will receive, will find, and it will be opened (see Matthew 7:7-8).

I do believe that unequivocally, promise is distinct from law in scripture.

Scriptures to ponder:

Heb 11:33, Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

2Pe 1:3, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4, Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2Co 1:20, For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think, @Stranger, that I have already caught you in your own lie of saying that you do not believe something that you actually do believe. I think that the reader, in reading my "song and dance" concerning this, in previous posts, can see clearly that you believe that righteousness is imputed only; while you deny this: because it is clear that you believe that righteousness is not also imparted and therefore the only position you can have is that it is only imputed; unless there is some sort of middle ground: and you have said that you do not believe that there is a middle ground.

For you have challenged me to prove that you have at any time said that righteousness is imputed only. And I contend that this is exactly what you have been saying in your contention that it is not also imparted.

And this is contrary to the plain teaching of 1 John 3:7. You can try to add your own color to these scriptures with your own teachings concerning these things; but I am one to take the holy scriptures at face value; without the color being added by someone else's teaching on what they really mean.

The apostle John wrote under inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

1Jo 2:20, But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

and,

1Jo 2:27, But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[Stranger]

That noise heard is the crashing of 'impartation', as the third and last pillar could not support the weight of that legalistic doctrine.

Stranger

 

[justbyfaith]

That noise heard is the crashing of 'impartation', as the third and last pillar could not support the weight of that legalistic doctrine.

Stranger

I didn't hear any noise.

 

[justbyfaith]

You deceive yourself, @Stranger, if you think that you have won the argument.

 

[justbyfaith]

For I have said:

The imputed righteousness of Christ (which you say I deny; but which I affirm) does indeed belong to the believer by declaration only.

In imputing righteousness, or in justifying us (declaring us righteous), God calls those things which be not as though they are (Romans 4:17): for it is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2). Thus in declaring us righteous, He does not leave us in an unrighteous state practically.

Proverbs 17:15 and Proverbs 24:24 show us clearly that God does not justify the wicked or ungodly. And yet, in Romans 4:5, it is declared that God does indeed justify the ungodly. How are these verses reconciled? The answer is, in that in justifying the wicked/ungodly person, He regenerates and renews them in the Holy Ghost so that they are no longer unrighteous; even in the practical sense. It is not the Lord merely looking at them through rose-colored glasses; but it is the Lord, in the declaration, actually bringing into existence the things that He has declared.

Pro 17:15, He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Pro 24:24, He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:
Pro 24:25, But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.

Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is the job and goal of satan to attempt to knock down pillars of faith; which neither of you have succeeded at doing.

 

[justbyfaith]

Especially since the scriptures in question were never pillars in the first place; but rather they were strikes of the sword of the Spirit against your false doctrine that righteousness is imputed only (and not also imparted).

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that from your perspective, there is a fourth pillar that exists that you have not yet succeeded at knocking down (as you have also not successfully knocked down the first three either, from your perspective of seeing the substantiations for my doctrine as pillars to be knocked down).

From my perspective it is a fourth strike of the sword of the Spirit against your false doctrine that righteousness is imputed only.